Insurance Company Interview

Anna23

So I was asked to attend a second interview (happy me, so I thought at the time) - the position was within HR. I meet with the HR Manager and all goes smoothly until she starts asking me about my second language - which was irrelevant for the position (of course another way of finding out where I am from) - and if I have an Irish Passport, seeing we both do HR I thought she was a bit smarter and knew not to ask, all she had to do in order to find out where i am from, or born was to type my name in a search engine or properly read my CV and she would have figured it out. I thought they are interested in filling the position, not where i am from (must add I have been here 17 years, since i was a kid) - then she says to me, by the way we only hire people who match our culture, i was sitting in my chair almost falling off it when I heard what she was saying, I was taken aback by the way she did the interview and the questions she asked, I have a masters in HRM and first thing u know is not to even approach the candidate with these questions! has something changed since i finished my studies when it comes to interviewing people that I am not familiar with?!

I was so disappointed in her approach and her manners in the interview, that I questioned her weather my culture or background is important for the position, and if I am here for my skills or for her finding out where i am from as she was too lazy to do a Google search.

DISAPPOINTED

ArthurG

Im not really sure what you're trying to get across here. Are you suggesting some kind of racism?

You say you work in HR, so it should come as no surprise to you that most large organisations/multinationals have what they term their own 'culture'. This has nothing to do with where you're from or what passport you hold (what was that all about?), but more a set of values, way of doing things etc that permeate the organisation.

People working in large companies are typically expected to adhere to / live the culture of the business. For example respecting diversity, sexuality and so on.

I could be wrong, but I suspect you got the wrong end of the stick. And certainly if you spoke to me in the tone you indicated in a interview, you'd be getting a big red X on your application.

Anna23

then she should have said organizational culture, which i am fully familiar with. I am not suggesting anything...however it lead me to think, that maybe my background or where i am from does not fit their "culture" and let me tell you she was very very specific when saying culture and avoiding the "organizational" bit! I am not quite sure why she was interested if i have an Irish passport as I've done plenty of interviews and I never asked about this.This isn't the 1st time this happened, I am just wondering if things have changed,and I am not familiar with?

Trust me I came across a lot of racism since the whole so called "recession" started! I wouldn't want to be working in such a company anyway (reason why I walked out of the interview) if the relevance of where i am from is indicative of weather I can do a job or not!

I didn't get the wrong end of the stick as you nicely put it! Ive plenty of experience when it comes to recruitment and selection...and must I say I have never asked a person the above questions! But I greatly appreciate your opinion.

I do plan on making a complaint to their HR Director about their exceptional competency based interviewing methods - i was insulted by her questions!

phoenix999

Would agree with Arthurg. This person interviewing would need to have rocks in her head to question your cultural heritage etc. That would seem discriminatory.

Anna23

No i haven't been told i have been unsuccessful, i just don't understand why she would want to know about my second language and if I have an Irish passport and then tell me we only hire people who fit our culture, fair enough she made a mistake, but she should have been very careful, and made sure to use organizational culture. anyway the bottom line is why are you interested in my second language + weather I've an Irish passport or not, im an European citizen, double citizenship to be more precises?????????

I am no longer interested in the position anyway, I did walk out due to the way she was asking the question, actually the wrong questions, which are irrelevant at the 2nd stage of interviews. Maybe my methods are wrong...anyway thanks for the feedback.

She obviously had nothing in her head, when she asked the questions...she should have been very careful in her choice of words.

Merch

Maybe it was a stress test?

phoenix999

No I think you make very valid points. And if she brought up culture, she should have went into detail and explained what she meant. I would probably bite my tongue and hold out until the end of the interview. If you do get a rejection letter, I would request feedback on what exactly she was getting as. Specifically the issues you mentioned. I'm sure you won't be waiting long for a job with a masters in HRM. Best of luck.

Anna23

thanks Phoenix, I was just disappointed in the treatment I got, and I was not expecting this type of a question from such a company.

I can come up with better stress tests and i would defo avoid questions that could lead to a court case!

The Big Red Button

Honestly I would interpret the reference to culture, as "organisational culture" - I wouldn't read any more into it than that. I really think you took her up wrongly on that one.

As for asking you about your second language - how did she know you had a second language? If you mentioned it on your application/CV or at any stage in the interview, it's not surprising she'd ask you more about it. A second language would almost certainly be seen as a positive to any employer, and I don't think it's at all strange that she'd ask you more about it. I know you said it's irrelevant for the position, but she may have been thinking about how your career might have the potential to expand within the company in time - and a second language could be useful.

Asking about whether you have an Irish passport - does this affect whether or not you can work in the country? I know you said you're in the country seventeen years, but she mightn't have realised this. It seems reasonable that it would come up in an interview.

To me, it very much sounds like you misinterpreted the interviewer. Is it possible that, after having taken offence to her reference to the organisation's culture, this might have affected your understanding of her subsequent questions?

Anna23

if's and but's - I do still have an accent but hard to place, a mix, my second language was not mentioned in my application! she was just curious! i barely speak my mother tongue anyway!

me having or not having an Irish passport does not affect my work eligibility in Ireland, I've dual citizenship as already mentioned, both are European Union citizenships! and she did ask how long I was in the country so she did realize when i mentioned the 17 year part...anyway I'm sure she understood why I walked out...she turned red, and couldn't believe her eyes!

"To me, it very much sounds like you misinterpreted the interviewer. Is it possible that, after having taken offence to her reference to the organisation's culture, this might have affected your understanding of her subsequent questions?" - it is a possibility, i guess it was a touchy subject...thanks for a different opinion

ArthurG

I really do think you need to reconsider your actions here. You were in a 2nd interview with a large company, and it would appear threw a bit of a hissy one when you misinterpreted a fairly straightforward question. No wonder your interviewer turned red when you got up and walked out, she probably didn't know what was going on.

Am I correct in thinking you've just come out of academia and this is one of your first job applications?.

Sorry for sounding harsh but I think you need to grow up a bit and get some perspective. Good jobs are not growing on trees these days, and your behaviour will not endear you to any prospective employer.

Sorry for that, but I think it needs to be said.....

my friend

Anna,

reading your posts I see that you have communication difficulties, If elements of your character and ability as displayed in your OP came to light in an interview with me, well, it would be a case of 'don't call us, we'll call you'

tatli_lokma

Anna23 wrote: »

thanks Phoenix, I was just disappointed in the treatment I got, and I was not expecting this type of a question from such a company.

this type of thing goes on quite a lot - in fact many interviewers don't even realise the impact and possible ramifications of phrasing your questions incorrectly. If they were interested in her eligibility to work they should have asked about her eligibility to work - that would not be an issue, but asking if she has an Irish passport is the wrong way to ask. A lot of people are quite touchy about this, and I can understand why - in many instances they meet with the assumption that they only came to Ireland/married an Irish person etc for a passport. To an Irish person it might seem like they are touchy, but if you have been hearing this for many years you understandably get a bit fed up with it. At the end of the day, you need to ask - if she thought you were Irish would she have asked these questions? If you had a strong Dublin accent would you have been asked if you have an Irish passport? For a HR person not to know there is a difference between having an Irish passport and having eligibility to work is quite worrying.

I'm not sure that the interviewer was intending to be outright discriminatory, but due to ineptitude ended up offending OP with their phrasing of questions. When OP walked it was probably the first indication to her that she had done something wrong - and she could well have been posing her questions to many interviewees in this manner for ages without realising they could cause offense or be misconstrued.

OP, you are qualified in HRM and know that the manner in which these questions were asked is incorrect and potentially damaging to the company - however how many people of other nationalities don't realise that such questions are unprofessional? I can only imagine how many people of other nationalities get a raw deal without even being aware of it. Or indeed how many Irish people get asked inappropriate questions and don't put any pass on it?

Anna23

ArthurG - I finished college quite a while ago, did 4 years of an Honors Degree and then a 2 year Masters. Graduated in 2007. So no this is not my first attempt at applying for a job, or my first interview either. Have done plenty of interviews myself in work. I considered my actions carefully before acting upon them - i was fed up and couldn't really care. She turned red because she knew what she did, or she was realizing it really fast. You dont sound harsh, it makes me think you actually work there or have worked there or you know the people i am talking about, you can defend this,its fine by me. My behavior was directly proportional with the questions that were asked.people who are incapable to do their job piss me off.

My friend - communication difficulties, seriously? im interviewing the company as much as I am being interviewed. Wouldn't want to work with such a company. Imagine the line management in there!

Little Ted - its just sad that this happens and was disappointed as I was expecting a lot more from a HR Manager, but i guess its only wishful thinking.

ArthurG

Anna23 wrote: »

....it makes me think you actually work there or have worked there or you know the people i am talking about......

No, no and no

my friend

Anna23 wrote: »

My friend - communication difficulties, seriously? im interviewing the company as much as I am being interviewed. Wouldn't want to work with such a company. Imagine the line management in there!

communication difficulties? yes, and an attitude to boot! a defensive one, the worst of all.

You need to park your qualifications and take a long hard look at yourself.

I could parse your postings but feel you would benefit more via self analysis.

Take care.

Anna23

Of course its defensive, what else do you expect? It makes me laugh when people say this, is this the only thing you can come up with? And yes i do have an attitude, you'd have the same if you were in my shoes, where the most important part is where you are from, not if you can do the job or not! ITS NOT a problem to have an attitude or be defensive in the case I have outlined above. What do you want me to do, send her flowers and a box of chocolate!?

I've more stories but I guess you would need a few hours...then once you hear what I have to say, you might just understand my attitude, and why I am so defensive, and downright upset. I am not here to fight with people, you are entitle to your opinion, which I have read and accepted and thank you for sharing it with me, but please do bring something else to the table, not just a defensive attitude or communication problems!

Please do me a favor and parse my posting!

Mrs OBumble

You know lads, I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for the OP's point of view.

Commenting about "culture" to mean organisational culture would be fine - if it wasn't preceded by irrelevant language and passport questions. And it does bug many Irish people if they cannot put people into a box based on their accent.

OP, I know you expected someone who works in HR to do better. But sadly there as many marginally competent people in HR as in any other area - just because the know the rules doesn't mean they follow them. Chalk it up to experience, and good luck with your next job hunting steps with other companies.

the_syco

Anna23 wrote: »

I meet with the HR Manager and all goes smoothly until she starts asking me about my second language - which was irrelevant for the position (of course another way of finding out where I am from)

Sounded like an icebreaker, to get you to talk a bit.

Anna23 wrote: »

if I have an Irish Passport

A very common question. I'm a white Irishman, and I get asked. If you ask everyone it's not discrimination. It also weeds out a lot of people who don't have a visa to work here. I work in IT, and a fair few people fly over for interviews, not all with eligibility to work here.

Anna23 wrote: »

all she had to do in order to find out where i am from, or born was to type my name in a search engine or properly read my CV and she would have figured it out.

Are you saying that you are the only one with your name? Also, how does it matter what is on your online CV if you don't have an Irish passport. Do you mention that you have an Irish passport on your CV, and/or does it state that you are allowed to work in Ireland without a visa.

Anna23 wrote: »

by the way we only hire people who match our culture, i was sitting in my chair almost falling off it when I heard what she was saying

Probably means work culture, but if you were being stubborn so far I'd say you were being seen as an incompatible fit with their work environment.

Anna23 wrote: »

I questioned her weather my culture or background is important for the position, and if I am here for my skills or for her finding out where i am from as she was too lazy to do a Google search.

I hope you didn't actually asked her this, as you'd have come across as someone with an attitude.

Anna23 wrote: »

I've dual citizenship as already mentioned, both are European Union citizenships!

Was this mentioned in your CV?

=-=

During the boom years, I was asked a few of the "top 10 questions you never ever ask the interviewees", and I'd say the same HR people still work in their companies, so it wouldn't really surprise me if she asked you what you said she did.

But if you asked her what I hope you didn't ask her, then you have to check your attitude in future interviews. Every HR team I've seen are a close knit team, and fitting into said team may have been seen as just as important as your qualifications.

Anna23

Thanks for the input syco. Just to clarify, it's extremely visible on my CV what country I went to school when it came to my primary education, that country is in the EU. Her main concern was weather i also have an Irish Passport, I'm a European citizen (right to work all over Europe) so her question was quite irrelevant, when it came to the Irish passport!!!!

My attitude as I mentioned earlier is directly proportional with the questions I got asked, and I will be applying the same until someone competent enough interviews me. I definitely would not want to be part of a team like that. And thank God I figured it out and had the courage to say what I did and walk out. I've got some dignity left.

My name is uncommon and obviously foreign.

I understand you are unable to relate to the issue I have been mentioning above, but I can guarantee you, you would have a similar attitude if something like this would happen to you.

Just Mary - thanks.

Eoin

then she says to me, by the way we only hire people who match our culture

and let me tell you she was very very specific when saying culture and avoiding the "organizational" bit!

I don't think it makes sense that she'd specifically say something that was meant in a xenophobic way. If that was where she was coming from, you'd think she'd make a conscious effort not to say anything at all and just bin your application afterwards.

I wouldn't have thought you'd have to specifically say "organisational / company" culture, but I guess you have to err on the side of caution.

It might just have been a case of clumsy but mostly innocent questions. Worth walking out over? I'm not so sure, but I suppose that's easy for me to say.

Anna23

Eoin the bottom line is she asked, weather she meant it in a xenophobic way or not. She should have been careful, knowing that I am foreign and knowing I am fully aware of HR procedures during an interview. Reading my CV properly would have answered all the questions she had. As all the details are in my CV. Again thank you all for your input.

Eoin

The point is that she either:

1) Asked an entirely innocent and legitimate question, but phrased it badly, or assumed that a fellow HR professional would know what she meant
2) Deliberately asked a question that is a complete and utter no-no, especially for a HR manager

I'm just saying that I think the first scenario is more likely.

Anna23

I really would like to believe it was the first one. Honestly I would. Seeing we don't live in a Utopian world, doubt it very much. Again I shall not be looking for excuses for an inappropriate way of conducting an interview.

I might have had reacted to this a bit different to other people, but i was just fed up. No excuses.

LegacyUser

Hi Anna.

I personally think you are overreacting.

Question "where are you from" might be phrased badly, but very relevant, bear in mind that NOT all European nationalities are eligible to work in Ireland.
(eg. bulgarians and romanians)

There are also holders of passports, but non-citizens ,of eligible countries ( eg Latvia) , who do not have right to work here as well.

Mrs OBumble

the_syco wrote: »

A very common question. I'm a white Irishman, and I get asked. If you ask everyone it's not discrimination. It also weeds out a lot of people who don't have a visa to work here. I work in IT, and a fair few people fly over for interviews, not all with eligibility to work here.

Ahh, with your accent and industry, when you're asked "Do you have an Irish passport" it means

"Have you bothered your a** to get a passport?" or
"Can I send you to meetings overseas with a minimum of fuss?" or
"Will it be easy for you to get a B-whatever visa to go to a work meeting in the US"


When someone has a different accent, then the only way to ask the question, without risk of getting into trouble is "What makes you entitled to work in Ireland?" or maybe "Do you need visa sponsorship to work in Ireland?"


I've never been asked it outright, but it's usually stated at the interview that I'll need to show a passport or other evidence of right to work. OTHO, I usually work my family connections to a certain small village in Cork into the conversation, because I find it helps no end.

runawaybishop

Anna23 wrote: »

I really would like to believe it was the first one. Honestly I would. Seeing we don't live in a Utopian world, doubt it very much. Again I shall not be looking for excuses for an inappropriate way of conducting an interview.

I might have had reacted to this a bit different to other people, but i was just fed up. No excuses.

Why didn't you just ask her to clarify what she meant?

tatli_lokma

alica wrote: »

Hi Anna.

I personally think you are overreacting.

Question "where are you from" might be phrased badly, but very relevant, bear in mind that NOT all European nationalities are eligible to work in Ireland.
(eg. bulgarians and romanians)

Bulgarians & Romanians are now allowed to work due to the new changes in legislation

There are also holders of passports, but non-citizens ,of eligible countries ( eg Latvia) , who do not have right to work here as well.

How can a non-citizen get a passport of a country? And Latvians have a right to work in Ireland, regardless of passport or not. It is their citizenship which entitles this - obviously a passport is the most valid and dfinitive proof of idenity and citizenship, but your permission is based upon citizenship and not being a passport holder.

listermint

Reading through all your posts Anna, I dont think you are ready for interview yet. You come across as ridiculously defensive to the point that you are defensive prior to being asked a question.

Your attitude through your posts says to me that you are not a team player and for someone that has been here so long you should understand that in the context of an interview the term 'culture' means 'work culture'. to take it up any other way means you clearly do not have a grasp of the interview process.

Its disappointing that you seem to be waiting for a 'competent' interviewer when your skillset seems to be just education. You need to get out there and get a job in the industry youve studied in rather that believing that you know better.

I wish you well on your quest but urge you to caution your defensive attitude to questions.

tatli_lokma

Whilst I am somewhat sympathetic to OP's situation and can understand to a degree why she would be annoyed by the manner of the questioning, I do agree that Listermint gives sage advice here...

listermint wrote: »

I wish you well on your quest but urge you to caution your defensive attitude to questions.

Bandana boy

You have two scenarios
1 you misread the questions from the HR manager
2 The HR Manager was being openly discriminatory in an interview

I have often stated that I think the standard of HR in Ireland is very poor but I still find it very hard that a HR Manager of a large company would get to that position if option 2 was the case.

Whether it was the first or second scenario it is hard to call not having been there,
A point to consider is that you have opted for a career in HR. If you want to progress and succeed in HR then you will have to stop making snap judgements and reacting like you did in this interview. You will be on the front line in dealing with conflict in an organisation and it is a requirement in HR that your responses are measured and unemotional.

With this in mind the interview could have been option 3 , a stress test in which case you failed pretty badly.

Best of luck in the future