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Is my new three day split (and cardio) routine okay? Please help.

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    #32
    runswithascript
    Registered Users Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    kevpants wrote: »
    I'm not running down curls and pushdowns and lat raises, we all do them. You're just approaching this incorrectly.

    But I shouldn't? Just they are not included in the 5*5 linked...

    There is a modified version with pull ups http://exercisedatabase.wikia.com/wiki/Strong_Lifts_5*5

    Would that be too much?


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    #33
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    Try this

    Monday
    Squats - 5 x 5
    Lunges - 3 x 8 per leg
    Good morning/back raise - 5 x 10
    Abs - 5 x 10 of whatever AB exercise you want

    Tuesday
    bench press - 5 x 5
    Inc DB bench - 3 x 10
    DB rows - 3 x 10 each side
    Triceps - 3 x 12

    Wednesday
    Cardio/conditioning
    Do hill sprints or intervals on a rower.
    Stay off the treadmill
    Don't worry about your Hear Rate

    Thursday
    Deadlifts - 5 x 5
    Leg Curls - 3 x 10
    Leg press - 3 x 10
    Abs - 5 x 10

    Friday
    Military Press - 5 x 5
    DB press - 3 x 10
    Face pulls/lay raises - 3 x 10
    Biceps curls - 3 x 12

    Saturday
    Same as Wed

    Sunday
    Off

    that's not a perfect programme but it's not bad.

    Stop over thinking everything and just do it


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    #34
    kansatsu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭kansatsu


    dusf wrote: »
    I tried this today and I do feel like I got a good workout on my arms, and to a lesser extent my chest but that's probably only because I use my arms more.

    I think it may be the way you performed your presses. If you are keeping the dumbbels too close to your body then most of the job is done with your triceps. Try a slightly wider position (with your biceps, elbow and your forearm forming a 90 degree angle). If you struggle with proper technique, you can try using a barbell instead.

    dusf wrote: »
    *Is this better than using the 'Pec flye machine'?

    Yes, any kind of free weights exercise is superior to a machine. Machines have a fixed range of motion and they stabilize the weight for you, your only task is to push, pull, press etc. You do not have to worry about balancing the weight and keeping it under control meaning that there is less work performed by your muscles.

    dusf wrote: »
    *I did preacher curls here instead because I had the seat at my disposal and I thought it might guarantee my form, any reason to do regular standing barbell curls instead?

    Preachers are usually used to finish off your biceps but if they work for you then you can do them instead. Just remember that if you want to increase your arms you have to focus on your triceps. Your biceps is one of the smallest muscles in your body and it can develop well when being used as a secondary muscle (when doing rows, pull ups etc) without any direct biceps exercises.
    dusf wrote: »
    Warm-up 4 * 10kg.

    That's not a warm up. For your warm up you can use 50 per cent of your max rep weight and do at least the same number of reps as your main set (I would suggest more, 12-16). Doing just four reps is not enough, you have to get that blood flowing into the muscle so higher reps ;-)
    dusf wrote: »
    *Is 7.5kg too much for me if I am not able to get at least 8 reps each set?

    Try the same weight next week, if you still can't do 8 then decrease the weight. You got yourself a starting point with all those reps and weights used. Open an excel spreadsheet if you have excel and start recording your results there. It is much handier than going through the pages of a logbook. When you start a new week aim for more reps or weight in all your exercises. Even if it is only one rep more or 1kg or 0.5kg more. You did 12 reps with 10 kg dumbbells yesterday (chest). Try if you can do 8 reps with 12kgs (good form).

    dusf wrote: »
    2) TRICEPS PUSHDOWN 3 sets 8-12 reps

    12 * 12 * 4 @ machine setting '6'.

    *I really really struggled with this exercise, I was sore at times and my shoulders felt a bit wonky at times, maybe that's a sure sign I should be doing it at 5 or 4 for now?

    First, check if your pushdown machine is in kg or pounds. Machine setting 6 will not tell you anything and if you change gyms and the other will have different way of distributing weight it will be difficult to keep the record of your progress. Most of them will be in pounds (going as far as 240 etc)

    Make sure you have your elbows close to the body and the only body part that should be moving is your forearms. IF you are leaning forward, moving up your traps and using momentum then the weight is too heavy.
    dusf wrote: »
    Do I only increase the weight when I can do each exercise 12 times in all its sets?

    If you can perform 10 good form reps, you can increase the weight and try doing 6 - 8 good form reps. You will discover that some of your body parts will respond to lower reps 6-8, others to higher (12 or even more). At the moment, you are just trying to learn the proper technique so try staying in the higher rep range.
    dusf wrote: »
    Do I need to warm up for each exercise, or just each muscle group?

    1-2 warm up sets per muscle group is enough. For example, you can use push ups as a warm up before doing chest.
    dusf wrote: »
    Following the programme you have set out for me tomorrow, Wednesday, being the second day of my workout week I have no workout to do, can I go to the gym and do some cardio and my abs? If so how much cardio?

    This depends on how much time you have at your disposal. If you feel like going to the gym 6 times, then you can do your cardio on your rest days. The best way to do your cardio is either the very first thing in the morning
    or after weights session. I prefer to do it in the morning as the only thing I can think about after weights is food and I do not want to wait any longer ;-)
    dusf wrote: »
    My heart rate goes up to about 160 but I try to not hold onto the machine apart from when I want to check it. Is 160 too high, too low?

    As far as I remember, you're 28 so 160 is about 83 per cent of your maximum heart rate. If your aim is to improve your heart & stamina then this is ok. If you want to burn fat, then this is too intense. (Unless you are doing intervals and then this is not intense enough! ;-). Various sources say that it should be from 60 to 70 per cent of your max so in your case that would be 115 to 135 bpm 40 to 60 minutes (you can also try intervals if you are reasonably fit, it only takes 20 minutes but seems much longer that that 40-60 of medium intenstity cardio), but then again if your diet is bad no cardio will help you burn that excess body fat
    dusf wrote: »
    Maybe I should be running, or using the 'stepper' or cross trainer? What would you recommend, if anything, and for how long and at what setting? I would love to do cardio on my three off days (7th day of the week will always be off) but not at the price of building mass and strength.

    This is your personal preference, choose what you like, cardio is boring and mundane so pick the one that you think will keep you going for a longer period of time. I personally do bike. The only thing that may be difficult for you is going to the gym 6 times per week. 6 days is a lot and sometimes you will feel like skipping it so consider doing cardio at home in the morning (if you have some equipment) or after weights.

    dusf wrote: »
    The ab exercises the gym had me doing and I plan to do tomorrow:

    3 * 15 Crunches holding a 6/8kg ball over my head for stability.

    3 * 15 Reverse crunches, hand on my ass, not sure if palms up or down, back flat on the floor, moving my legs which are out straight in a curling motion over me and back down.

    3 * 15 Roman chairs.

    Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


    I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.


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    #35
    kevpants
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    kansatsu wrote: »

    Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


    I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

    817.jpg?3116


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    #36
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kansatsu wrote: »
    I think it may be the way you performed your presses. If you are keeping the dumbbels too close to your body then most of the job is done with your triceps. Try a slightly wider position (with your biceps, elbow and your forearm forming a 90 degree angle). If you struggle with proper technique, you can try using a barbell instead.




    Yes, any kind of free weights exercise is superior to a machine. Machines have a fixed range of motion and they stabilize the weight for you, your only task is to push, pull, press etc. You do not have to worry about balancing the weight and keeping it under control meaning that there is less work performed by your muscles.




    Preachers are usually used to finish off your biceps but if they work for you then you can do them instead. Just remember that if you want to increase your arms you have to focus on your triceps. Your biceps is one of the smallest muscles in your body and it can develop well when being used as a secondary muscle (when doing rows, pull ups etc) without any direct biceps exercises.



    That's not a warm up. For your warm up you can use 50 per cent of your max rep weight and do at least the same number of reps as your main set (I would suggest more, 12-16). Doing just four reps is not enough, you have to get that blood flowing into the muscle so higher reps ;-)



    Try the same weight next week, if you still can't do 8 then decrease the weight. You got yourself a starting point with all those reps and weights used. Open an excel spreadsheet if you have excel and start recording your results there. It is much handier than going through the pages of a logbook. When you start a new week aim for more reps or weight in all your exercises. Even if it is only one rep more or 1kg or 0.5kg more. You did 12 reps with 10 kg dumbbells yesterday (chest). Try if you can do 8 reps with 12kgs (good form).




    First, check if your pushdown machine is in kg or pounds. Machine setting 6 will not tell you anything and if you change gyms and the other will have different way of distributing weight it will be difficult to keep the record of your progress. Most of them will be in pounds (going as far as 240 etc)

    Make sure you have your elbows close to the body and the only body part that should be moving is your forearms. IF you are leaning forward, moving up your traps and using momentum then the weight is too heavy.



    If you can perform 10 good form reps, you can increase the weight and try doing 6 - 8 good form reps. You will discover that some of your body parts will respond to lower reps 6-8, others to higher (12 or even more). At the moment, you are just trying to learn the proper technique so try staying in the higher rep range.



    1-2 warm up sets per muscle group is enough. For example, you can use push ups as a warm up before doing chest.



    This depends on how much time you have at your disposal. If you feel like going to the gym 6 times, then you can do your cardio on your rest days. The best way to do your cardio is either the very first thing in the morning
    or after weights session. I prefer to do it in the morning as the only thing I can think about after weights is food and I do not want to wait any longer ;-)



    As far as I remember, you're 28 so 160 is about 83 per cent of your maximum heart rate. If your aim is to improve your heart & stamina then this is ok. If you want to burn fat, then this is too intense. (Unless you are doing intervals and then this is not intense enough! ;-). Various sources say that it should be from 60 to 70 per cent of your max so in your case that would be 115 to 135 bpm 40 to 60 minutes (you can also try intervals if you are reasonably fit, it only takes 20 minutes but seems much longer that that 40-60 of medium intenstity cardio), but then again if your diet is bad no cardio will help you burn that excess body fat



    This is your personal preference, choose what you like, cardio is boring and mundane so pick the one that you think will keep you going for a longer period of time. I personally do bike. The only thing that may be difficult for you is going to the gym 6 times per week. 6 days is a lot and sometimes you will feel like skipping it so consider doing cardio at home in the morning (if you have some equipment) or after weights.




    Abs - I believe in high reps and by high reps i mean at least 30-40 per set. I am also totally against using dumbbells or some other extra weight when doing crunches etc. That may just expand your waistline. You will build up the muscle but it will expand your waistline. This is a personal preference, but I don't like the way professional bodybuilders look at the moment. 100cm in waist? Are you kidding me? After Frank Zane retired it all just went downhill when it comes to abs.


    I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

    you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu


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    #37
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kevpants wrote: »
    817.jpg

    Eff-wyyy-pee


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    #38
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    kansatsu wrote: »


    I will also add a few words about 5x5 so the Irish National Powerlifting Elite here can reply with some "you are 100 per cent wrong kansatsu" comments ;-) . I have done it a few years ago. I just found it difficult to fail at 5 reps in a set (as in not being able to do the 6th rep). You have to find weight that will let you do 5 reps in a set. That means going heavy, and when it's heavy you have to have a perfect form so you do not get injured and even sometimes with perfect form you can get injured. Also, training the same body part 3 x week at some decent intensity is very difficult. I would not be able to do deadlifts or squats 3 times per week and staying with the same weights at each session but hey, I'm just human. I'm not going to say it is 100 per cent wrong :-). Try it! See if it works for you. If it gives you good results, don't change it. If you're growing, don't change it, even if somebody else says its wrong.

    Speaking as someone thats done both aproaches theres a few things that spring to mind here.
    -I did the train to failure routines out of Musclemag/Flex for years, grew enough to think I was doing ok for a bit at the start but then nothing, didnt get any stronger or bigger for years. They might work well for John Meadows or Labrada but not for a normal beginner, you cant get strong while training to failure all the time, exhibit A is myself and all the other lost skinny souls you see in gyms E Z Curling themselves into oblivion.

    -Youre missing the whole point of 5x5 and the like, youre not aiming for failure, youre aiming for progress, small hiccups aside if you can add 2.5-5kg to your squat deadlift and bench 3 times per week for 6 months thats some serious progress

    -Training the same bodypart 3 times a week is not difficult when youre a beginner and not going to failure as the weights arent that heavy that you need a week to recover

    -That said I did do DC for a while lately, it was grand as a change and Ive nothing against it but I do remember Trudel who invented it saying himself that things like training to failure, rest pauses etc shouldnt be done by beginners who need to get strong first


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    #39
    zzfh
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭zzfh


    bench, rows, squat, deadlift, pullups, overheadpress.

    anything else is fluff. this....


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    #40
    ManwitaPlan
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭ManwitaPlan


    Jaysus...no offence guys I am pretty sure evrybody who posted advice on here knows more than me but this thread is downright confusing for the chap.

    He has come on asking for advice and he has been given ten different programmes and conflicting advice from everybody.

    People have said Bench, Squat, Press, Row, Deadlift and thats pretty spot on but also pretty useless to somebody who has no idea what they are doing.

    DUSF, you need to pick a programme and stick to it. To my mind the only three programmes I would personally recommend to a beginner are Stronglifts, Starting strength or Wendler 5/3/1. Not saying these are the best programmes in the world just saying millions of beginners have used them and gotten good results so great place to start.

    Stronglifts: http://stronglifts.com/secret-5x5-report/

    I started on this back in Jan..exercises are Squat, DeadLift, row, bench press, overhead press. you do 5 sets of 5 reps of three of the exercices(always including squat) three days a week.

    Will get **** on here no doubt but its a solid place to start and easy to follow:

    Starting Strength: Massively popular book by Mark Rippetoe....exercises are Squat, Deadlift, bench press, overhead press, power clean. You do 3 sets of 5 reps (with two warm up sets) of three of the exercices(always including squat) three days a week. Hmmmmm...remind you of anything. Thousands of beginners have used this programme to great effect. If you dont want to read the book just google.

    5/3/1: Ebook by Jim wendler. exercises are Squat, Deadlift, bench press, and overhead press...are you noticing a pattern here??? A little more complicated than the above programmes and progression is slower which means more suited to people who have been lifting a while but it is a lot more flexible than the other two programmes so worth a look.

    Google these three programmes, pick one and stick to it for three months and report back.


    PS. Why when gyms design programmes for people do they nearly exclusively revolve around machines and 20 sets of 30 reps in each exercise? Is it that their afraid of injury / insurance or is it a case they want people to use the shiny machines they have spent thousands on..I reckon you would struggle to find a personal trainer in any commercial gym who would advise Squats, deadlift etc to a new guy which seems wierd to me.


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