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Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna - Foe of Modern Ireland

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    #422
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    hansfrei wrote: »
    Yes. Theres a huge amount of liberal brainwashing in the media. Too fcuking much.
    "Brainwashing"? How?

    Acceptance of things you don't like rather than condemning them/pretending they're not real... isn't brainwashing.

    It's only opinion/commentary pieces that can push an agenda, and there are plenty of right-wingers at the forefront of the Irish media too.


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    #423
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    The fact that lefties, and the group which politically represents the vast majority of the left were not only silent while the unemployed were trampled, but were actually responsible for setting up institutionalised slavery at the behest of IBEC must gall, eh.

    Now stop threadjacking this thread, because I for one was otherwise quite enjoying it and frankly I'm finding this a bit stalkerish.


    I do not care.

    I'm threadjacking eh? You're the one who started dragging other threads into this thread me ould flower :)


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    #424
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Not intending to blame at all - but when you look at the likes of tabloid jounalism, Fox news et al, there most certainly is an attitude of "trust us, we know best and don't ask questions". This is a porblem on both sides of the political specturm, but the right-wig tends to be more prominent in it's public actions than the left. Now, this may or may not be a good thing, but it most certainly is the same attitude that the church had.

    The problem is the publics attitude to actually go along with it. Again, very similar to the Caholic Church era.


    Exactly, this is what I'm saying and I've been saying for a long time now - people aren't and weren't brainwashed, they CHOSE, WILLINGLY, to defer authority to the RCC, for numerous different reasons.

    They are now choosing to believe what they are being told by media (and in that I also include social media and the internet), because it suits them to do so.

    The problem with that again is, that people are blaming anyone or anything else for the ills in society, rather than seeing that THEY are a part of that society and so they can play a part in changing it into the society they want it to become. It's all well and good to wax lyrical on the internet about it and put forward ideas about what direction we would like society to take, but how much do we really buy into our own ideology offline?


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    #425
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Bambi wrote: »
    I'm threadjacking eh? You're the one who started dragging other threads into this thread me ould flower :)
    Yeh you're the one who's a bit stalkerish, even though he's the one who started going on about you getting your ass kicked (you didn't) in that other thread... :)


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    #426
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Bambi wrote: »
    I'm threadjacking eh? You're the one who started dragging other threads into this thread me ould flower smile.png
    Bambi wrote: »
    youd probably have thave been born in the 20s or 30s to really know what life was like in ireland back the 40s or 50s. when were you born? 80s? 90s? please do tell us all about life back in the 40s, im sure it will be fascinating stuff
    You came into the thread spoiling for a fight, and after it was highlighted why you did so, you proceeded to try and win the argument you lost by threadjacking. I'll say it once more, stop threadjacking.
    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Yeh you're the one who's a bit stalkerish, even though he's the one who started going on about you getting your ass kicked (you didn't) in that other thread... :)
    You are also threadjacking.


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    #427
    Foxhound38
    Registered Users Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    Poisonous individual - the sooner society moves on from this creepy, ultra-conservative ethos (and the source YD's funding is finally investigated), the better.


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    #428
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,386 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Exactly, this is what I'm saying and I've been saying for a long time now - people aren't and weren't brainwashed, they CHOSE, WILLINGLY, to defer authority to the RCC, for numerous different reasons.

    They are now choosing to believe what they are being told by media (and in that I also include social media and the internet), because it suits them to do so.

    The problem with that again is, that people are blaming anyone or anything else for the ills in society, rather than seeing that THEY are a part of that society and so they can play a part in changing it into the society they want it to become. It's all well and good to wax lyrical on the internet about it and put forward ideas about what direction we would like society to take, but how much do we really buy into our own ideology offline?

    True, but if an organisation is going to appoint itself as some sort of societal guardians, as both the church and the tabloid have done, their first goal should really be to protect the weak, not exploit them.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #429
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    True, but if an organisation is going to appoint itself as some sort of societal guardians, as both the church and the tabloid have done, their first goal should really be to protect the weak, not exploit them.


    That would be the right thing to do, yes, but there's no profit in protecting the weak. Their intentions (both the RCC and the media) were never to protect the weak, but to exploit them. Who gave the church that moral authority? We did, or at least, Irish society at the time did, in the same way as we're now giving the media the authority to control what we see and hear.

    Can we take back that authority? Absolutely, it's as easy as just not buying into it, and encouraging other people to think for themselves too, and not be so taken up with being told what to think by those whom we have allowed to appoint themselves moral guardians in our society.

    We can either sit behind our keyboards and be bitter about it and lament the spiralling downward moral decay in our society and the lack of care and understanding for vulnerable and marginalised people in our society, or we can get out and start building the sort of society that we want to be part of.

    I choose to build a society I want to be part of by my actions and how I treat other people. I know not everyone agrees with my philosophy, but if people want change, they have to start with themselves first, and work from the ground up, because it'll never work, and has never worked, from the top down.

    The RCC Hierarchy, the media, and the politicians can politely go and fcuk themselves for all I care tbh. If you start with the people around you, that's how you start to change people's attitudes and that's who the next generation are learning from. That, in my opinion at least, is how a society grows and evolves to be more socially inclusive and caring for each other as opposed to judging each other and trying to be better than their neighbours.


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    #430
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,811 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Have you ever asked yourself ninja how they're able to do this? Because they own most of the properties and lands on which these educational institutions and hospitals are built is why....
    People will complain, but they're reluctant to do anything themselves that might contribute to solving the problem. It's not that we lack the resources, it's that we lack the will.

    That's perilously close to the "if they don't like it, they should build their own schools" argument.

    The last thing we need in this country is yet more balkanisation of schools, needlessly split up on gender and religion grounds, wasting money, tearing children away from their local school because it is the 'wrong' type, and cutting minorities off from their community.

    If change can only come about when new schools are built then change will be extremely slow (as we are seeing) and only in certain areas e.g. expanding suburbs. Those living in mature suburbs will continue to have no choice, those in small towns or rural areas will continue to have no choice, other than to suck up religious indoctrination for their kids in violation of their constitutional rights. The Department of Education will not sanction a new Educate Together or similar school in an area which doesn't have a shortage of school places overall.

    The churches don't fund the running of the schools, in many cases they didn't fund the construction, and in some cases the land was paid for by the state as well.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #431
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,811 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    That would be the right thing to do, yes, but there's no profit in protecting the weak. Their intentions (both the RCC and the media) were never to protect the weak, but to exploit them. Who gave the church that moral authority? We did, or at least, Irish society at the time did, in the same way as we're now giving the media the authority to control what we see and hear.

    Hardly fair to judge people for going along with the RCC's dictates when they were brainwashed from birth, and threatened with eternal hellfire in the 'next life' and social ostracism in this one if they did not conform. Irish society was not in a position to make a free choice.

    The media has far less power than before, it has never been easier to inform oneself or to spread ideas through non-traditional-media channels, as this site and many others demonstrate.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #432
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    ninja900 wrote: »
    That's perilously close to the "if they don't like it, they should build their own schools" argument.


    Perilously close? Being honest ninja that's exactly what I was suggesting, is that people come together and dig into their own pockets to fund exactly the sort of school they want.

    It's not exactly a novel concept.

    The last thing we need in this country is yet more balkanisation of schools, needlessly split up on gender and religion grounds, wasting money, tearing children away from their local school because it is the 'wrong' type, and cutting minorities off from their community.


    Yeah I can see where you're coming from and all, but that's why I'm suggesting that where there's a will, there's most definitely a way! I wouldn't consider it a waste of money if I wanted to have my child educated in a school whose ethos I agreed with. I'd consider it more of a waste of money to contribute to a school and send my child to a school whose ethos I didn't agree with tbh.

    If change can only come about when new schools are built then change will be extremely slow (as we are seeing) and only in certain areas e.g. expanding suburbs. Those living in mature suburbs will continue to have no choice, those in small towns or rural areas will continue to have no choice, other than to suck up religious indoctrination for their kids in violation of their constitutional rights.


    There's the thing - there is always, always a choice. The alternative may be inconvenient initially, but that doesn't mean it should be discounted out of hand just because "it's too hard", etc. Now as for the religious indoctrination bit, children aren't forced either to do religious education or Irish if their parents object to them being taught these subjects.

    The Department of Education will not sanction a new Educate Together or similar school in an area which doesn't have a shortage of school places overall.


    Lets be honest, the Dept. of Education doesn't have a pot to piss in in terms of a budget for new schools, so you'll be a long time depending on them if you were to wait around for change. Successive Irish governments aren't known for their long term strategies either. So rather than depending on government to do anything, we could get it done a lot more efficiently and it'd have a much bigger benefit to the community if a community were to build a self-funded community school. Difficult, idealistic even, but not impossible.

    The churches don't fund the running of the schools, in many cases they didn't fund the construction, and in some cases the land was paid for by the state as well.


    Tell me about it, being on the board of management at my son's school I get to be constantly frustrated by the amount of bureaucracy that goes on. We couldn't even get a leaky roof fixed for months even though I knew people, professional tradesmen with papers, that would do it for nothing, had to wait for a capitation grant or some such. There was also a conflict of interest in that because I'm on the BOM of the school, I couldn't shave €5k off their IT spending by offering my services for free as opposed to paying somebody else to do it.

    I think if we all really wanted to, we could change how things are done in this country, leading by example as opposed to adopting the defeatist "it can't be done" attitude. If I listened to people who tell me "it can't be done" on a daily basis, then nothing would get done, and I'm only one person.


    Wibbs mentioned earlier if Boards had been around 50 years ago, but Boards wouldn't exist at all if Dev had listened to people who told him at the time he couldn't register Boards.ie as a domain name... and yet he did it :D


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    #433
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,811 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Perilously close? Being honest ninja that's exactly what I was suggesting, is that people come together and dig into their own pockets to fund exactly the sort of school they want.

    Yes, it's an option, it's a very difficult one, and (let's face it) outside of comfortable middle-class suburbs anything that requires substantial parental/community funding just isn't going to happen.
    Yeah I can see where you're coming from and all, but that's why I'm suggesting that where there's a will, there's most definitely a way! I wouldn't consider it a waste of money if I wanted to have my child educated in a school whose ethos I agreed with.

    I was talking about the waste of state money, not the parents who may be funding the school.
    I'd consider it more of a waste of money to contribute to a school and send my child to a school whose ethos I didn't agree with tbh.

    We all contribute to state funded schools even if we don't have kids. And many people sending their children to religious schools just don't have any other option.
    There's the thing - there is always, always a choice. The alternative may be inconvenient initially, but that doesn't mean it should be discounted out of hand just because "it's too hard", etc.

    I don't think it's fair or reasonable to tell anyone objecting to state-funded religious indoctrination that they should either suck it up or set up their own.

    Now as for the religious indoctrination bit, children aren't forced either to do religious education or Irish if their parents object to them being taught these subjectat they should just set up another school if they don't like it. Is.

    In theory there is a right to opt out. In practice, often no other supervision is provided making it impossible. And religious instruction in primary is integrated throughout the syllabus.
    Lets be honest, the Dept. of Education doesn't have a pot to piss in in terms of a budget for new schools, so you'll be a long time depending on them if you were to wait around for change. Successive Irish governments aren't known for their long term strategies either. So rather than depending on government to do anything, we could get it done a lot more efficiently and it'd have a much bigger benefit to the community if a community were to build a self-funded community school. Difficult, idealistic even, but not impossible.

    It's one thing to build a school or find a premises, but to expect parents to pay for the entire running costs in perpetuity is unrealistic. It's also unfair, because it's only because of religious discrimination/indoctrination that there was the need to set up a new school in the first place.
    Tell me about it, being on the board of management at my son's school I get to be constantly frustrated by the amount of bureaucracy that goes on. We couldn't even get a leaky roof fixed for months even though I knew people, professional tradesmen with papers, that would do it for nothing, had to wait for a capitation grant or some such.

    The system is fundamentally broken, Quinn has said and done nothing to indicate he'll do anything other than tinker with it by handing over a few schools to ET here and there.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #434
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    You came into the thread spoiling for a fight, and after it was highlighted why you did so, you proceeded to try and win the argument you lost by threadjacking.
    Why have you convinced yourself he lost an argument? You said "lefties" support/don't condemn JobBridge, which is simply not true. It's mostly those to the right economically who support JobBridge, not to the left. Then you clarified that by lefties you meant the Labour Party, which is one party, not all lefties, and yeh, it's in government so it is going to support a government initiative like JobBridge - that's politics for ya.


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    #435
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna - Foe of Modern Ireland

    Then it/they should be defeated.
    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Most boardies won't have heard of Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna.

    No, never heard of it before.


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    #436
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,386 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Then it/they should be defeated.

    She was.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #437
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »



    No, never heard of it before.



    G’way ye wife-swapping sodomites


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    #438
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Then it/they should be defeated.
    No, never heard of it before.
    Why are you pretending not to know that refers to a woman?


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    #439
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Why are you pretending not to know that refers to a woman?



    ...because its as gaeilge.


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    #440
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Daar Lord, what a narrow minded stale old dinoasur she was!


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    #441
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Why are you pretending not to know that refers to a woman?

    Read the title, but I didn't read the thread, so I asked the question.

    She's bloody awful too.

    as gaeilge, or otherwise.


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    #442
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Mena Cribben was just as bad, and she doesn't have a very Irish name :(

    I'm with Vicar in a Tutu on this one > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80120733&postcount=5


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    #443
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Mena Cribben was just as bad, and she doesn't have a veryr Irish name :(

    There was a great radio documentary done about her a few months ago. I think her granddaughter narrated it. Well worth checking out if you can find a podcast.

    http://www.rte.ie/presspack/2012/09/29/documentary-on-one-mine-bean-ui-chribin-my-granny/


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