Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna - Foe of Modern Ireland

Monotype

I know nothing of the woman referred to in the original post, however I knew the the late Mena Bean Uí Chribín mentioned throughout this thread.

I know that in AH, it's asking a lot to be somewhat reasonable but it's like a pack of bloodthirsty rabid wolves circling and looking for any reason to defame and insult.

Yes, she was a staunch Catholic which she practised herself - she was not afraid to say what she believed in and would be happy to publicly say it too.
However, she would never turn away those in need. If she saw wrong-doing - and I'm not talking about a religious perspective - she would stand up to it. She more than likely made a great deal of enemies doing this, so I would be cautious about what you believe in reports. She was activist - you're going to get on somebody's bad side.

As whitehall9 mentioned a few pages back, she did a shedload of work in the community for several decades, especially helping out students with their studies in maths, Irish & music and further promoting environmentalism and also encouraging those to develop musical talents. The description by whitehall9 is fairly accurate. She took in people regardless of their background and never pushed a religious agenda.

The world is undoubtedly a better place with her having been in it.

Since there's so much talk about where the human race has come and is headed, I hope that I will live to see a day when we are a little more accepting and do not revel in the death of someone, especially based on a few threads and failing to see the larger picture.

Colmustard

I think she more a product of her time, she wasn't speaking to empty halls and she had support from a broad section of Irish society, including the church and therefore the government. I wouldn't demonise her, no more then I would demonise any conservative in anytime.

Social progress or regress, depending on which side of the fence you are on happens for a host of reasons, then a funny thing happens to conservatives they embrace the new values and want to keep it that way. That becomes their new conservatism. For example you don't get any republicans in America wanting a return to apartheid.

sbsquarepants

I've often wondered about that myself, the conservatives of today are basically the bat shít crazy liberals of 50 years ago, or even less. You don't see too many people espousing a return to the values of the 15th century for example.
Maybe it's a bit of a simplistic analogy, but to my mind conservatives are kind of like the slow kids in school - they'll most likely get there in the end, it just takes them that little bit longer than the smarter kids! Then by the time they get there, the others have moved on, it's a game of perpetual catch up.

NotForResale

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I've often wondered about that myself, the conservatives of today are basically the bat shít crazy liberals of 50 years ago, or even less. You don't see too many people espousing a return to the values of the 15th century for example.
Maybe it's a bit of a simplistic analogy, but to my mind conservatives are kind of like the slow kids in school - they'll most likely get there in the end, it just takes them that little bit longer than the smarter kids! Then by the time they get there, the others have moved on, it's a game of perpetual catch up.

So they're guilty of the same moral relativism they constantly complain about when referring to us?:D

hardCopy

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I've often wondered about that myself, the conservatives of today are basically the bat shít crazy liberals of 50 years ago, or even less. You don't see too many people espousing a return to the values of the 15th century for example.
Maybe it's a bit of a simplistic analogy, but to my mind conservatives are kind of like the slow kids in school - they'll most likely get there in the end, it just takes them that little bit longer than the smarter kids! Then by the time they get there, the others have moved on, it's a game of perpetual catch up.

I'd say a lot of these loons would happily take us back a hundred years or so.

They are just kept so busy trying to hold back the tide of debauchery that they never get around to restoring older laws.

If abortion and gay marriage were finally off the table they'd quickly get back to lobbying for bans on condoms, divorce, serving drink on the holy hour, working on holy days of obligation, serving meat on Friday's etc.

These are not people who have embraced or accepted the last 50 years of liberalisation in Irish society.

EDIT: Same goes for Colmustard's comments above, if you think conservative America has moved beyond racism you should listen to right wing talk radio over there, especially outside the cities. Obama is not American, Obama is a muslim, Obama sounds like Osama, this stuff is spouted regularly on drivetime radio over there

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Colmustard wrote: »

I think she more a product of her time, she wasn't speaking to empty halls and she had support from a broad section of Irish society, including the church and therefore the government. I wouldn't demonise her, no more then I would demonise any conservative in anytime.

Social progress or regress, depending on which side of the fence you are on happens for a host of reasons, then a funny thing happens to conservatives they embrace the new values and want to keep it that way. That becomes their new conservatism. For example you don't get any republicans in America wanting a return to apartheid.

Probelm is, some of the conservatives over here want to go back to the Christian Brothers era.

amadain17

CTYIgirl wrote: »

One of the Ten Commandments is "Do unto others as you would like others to do unto you."

Thats not one of the ten commandments

Annasopra

What a great letter

http://www.thejournal.ie/letter-from-an-irish-housewife-to-charlie-haughey-733734-Dec2012/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thejournal&utm_campaign=from_page&fb_source=feed&ref=stream&refid=7&_ft_=qid.5827078879022846788%3Amf_story_key.509063902447372

Death and Taxes

What a truly obnoxious cúnt she was.:mad:

Ghost Buster

mango salsa wrote: »

What a great letter

http://www.thejournal.ie/letter-from-an-irish-housewife-to-charlie-haughey-733734-Dec2012/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thejournal&utm_campaign=from_page&fb_source=feed&ref=stream&refid=7&_ft_=qid.5827078879022846788%3Amf_story_key.509063902447372

Is this woman not some sort of founding figure / mascot of Yuff Defence?

Annasopra

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Is this woman not some sort of founding figure / mascot of Yuff Defence?

Yeah half her family are in youth defence

9959

WileyCoyote wrote: »

What a truly obnoxious cúnt she was.:mad:

Couldn't have put it more eloquently myself.

drogtastic

One of those hate filled, bigoted, brainwashed, idiot product of a very disturbed and dysfunctional hypocritical society. The problem with these people is they try to pass all their hatred and supernatural fantasies onto the young ones too. Mind you some of them get houses out of it unlike the majority of unpaid manipulated 'useful idiots' in yuff defense

kylith

Speaking as a woman, I hope Una Bean Mhic Mhathuna and her ilk get everything they deserve.

Lollipops23

It sounds like if the housewives crowd had gotten their way (and were given fre reign) we'd be every bit as bad as Saudi, Qatar and Libya when it comes to the state interfering with every day life.

Women would have zero rights (it hurts even more that it was girl on girl attacks on this too) and be treated as a baby farm due to lack of contraceptives.

Gays would be criminalised simply for being who they were.

There would be thousands of miserable households, driven to madness and perhaps even violence due to the lack of divorce available- therefore trapped in loveless (and maybe hate-filled) marriages.


Jesus, I give out about this country a fair bit, but I'll take it in its current state any time over the dystopia outlined above.

Míshásta

drogtastic wrote: »

One of those hate filled, bigoted, brainwashed, idiot product of a very disturbed and dysfunctional hypocritical society. The problem with these people is they try to pass all their hatred and supernatural fantasies onto the young ones too. Mind you some of them get houses out of it unlike the majority of unpaid manipulated 'useful idiots' in yuff defense

I'm not a supporter of Youth Defence or their objectives.

However you accuse others of being "hate filled". There's a fair bite of 'hate' displayed in your own msg.

Penn

Well worth a read on the whole Youth Defence / Coir / Prolife etc movement in Ireland: http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2012/09/youth-defence-money-shot.html

Lollipops23

Míshásta wrote: »

I'm not a supporter of Youth Defence or their objectives.

However you accuse others of being "hate filled". There's a fair bite of 'hate' displayed in your own msg.

In fairness antagonistic, judgmental and self-righteous people (like those in Youth Defence) tend to stir up the aggression in me too.

RainyDay

mango salsa wrote: »

Yeah half her family are in youth defence

Or to be more specific, half of Youth Defence are her family.

geeky

I love that letter from her. After three pages of nonsensicle griping:

"We therefore request a grant from your Government to enable us to compile a report on what the Irish housewives want."

The effing neck.

geeky

RainyDay wrote: »

Or to be more specific, half of Youth Defence are her family.

Hmmmm... that's one thing to be said for throwing away the jonneys and treating women as baby farms. You grow a private army pretty sharpish.

endacl

Míshásta wrote: »

I'm not a supporter of Youth Defence or their objectives.

However you accuse others of being "hate filled". There's a fair bite of 'hate' displayed in your own msg.

A lot of well-directed and well-deserved hate throughout this thread. Directed at people who really have earned it.

In making your point, I suspect you may remain mishasta (Ta bron orm. Taim gan 'fada' ar mo phon poca...) if you'll pardon the pun.

For the record, I'm an ardent opponent of yd and all their objectives. Both stated and unstated.

Is mise le meas and all that...

Lollipops23

endacl wrote: »

A lot of well-directed and well-deserved hate throughout this thread. Directed at people who really have earned it.

The day we don't get up in arms about their goings on is a sad day. We should never be complacent about this stuff-we were for far too long.

JupiterKid

Given Saturday's anti-abortion protest rally in Dublin and the fact that Youth Defence and Co were key organisers, I though I'd just bump this thread along...

Demonique

Good riddance I hope her family and that other nutjob join her sooner rather than later

Doc Ruby

Demonique wrote: »

Good riddance I hope her family and that other nutjob join her sooner rather than later

What is she dead or something?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Doc Ruby wrote: »

What is she dead or something?

Happily, yes.

dotsman

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Happily, yes.

When did this happen? Nothing in the news that I can see.

P.S. Not playing ass-kiss to the mods or anything, but I'll report my post here to bring it to their attention because, if it's true, as much as most people bear nothing but contempt for her political views, RIP threads for people like this can get very distasteful and read by relatives/friends etc.

Annasopra

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Happily, yes.

Have you a link?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Happily, yes.

You're not confusing her with the other one, are you?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0807/332466-mine-bean-ui-chribin/

To be honest, I hope she is still alvie and can see the progress she tried to hard to prevent being made and the cruelty she tired so hard to condone being exposed for the evil that it is.

She failed. She lost. Good triumped over evil. I hope she's aware of it.

Doc Ruby

We'll start seeing some real changes in this country as that generation passes on. The grey vote is a force to be reckoned with. Give it twenty years and you won't know the place.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

We'll start seeing some real changes in this country as that generation passes on.

We really won't Doc tbh. Society will just find other issues to look down on people about while they take the high moral ground, lamenting the irresponsible youth of the next generation, etc.

The grey vote is a force to be reckoned with. Give it twenty years and you won't know the place.

I'm sure it's not lost on you either Doc that you'll be the grey vote in 20 years time.

Doc Ruby

Czarcasm wrote: »

We really won't Doc tbh. Society will just find other issues to look down on people about while they take the high moral ground, lamenting the irresponsible youth of the next generation, etc.

Nah, the differences between people born in the 40s and 50s and people born in the 70, 80s and 90s are stark, huge. The differences in living standards are equally vast. Back then Ireland was the far side of the moon. Hopefully we'll be able to take the best of both worlds when the time comes.

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm sure it's not lost on you either Doc that you'll be the grey vote in 20 years time.

Nice try.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Nah, the differences between people born in the 40s and 50s and people born in the 70, 80s and 90s are stark, huge.

Same people, different issues is my point. Society still has people it's quite happy to pretend don't exist, therefore the problems don't exist.

The differences in living standards are equally vast. Back then Ireland was the far side of the moon. Hopefully we'll be able to take the best of both worlds when the time comes.

There's a chasm between the social classes Doc that grows wider by the hour. For the most vulnerable people in society, the idea of ever climbing the social ladder to be on an equal footing with others is the equivalent of travelling to the moon. For most of them it's just never going to happen.

Nice try.

I'm not trying anything Doc, only to have you realise that society won't change as much as you think it will, and in 20 years time, even 50 years time, there'll be another Doc Ruby proclaiming that society will change when the grey vote generation die off.

Doc Ruby

Czarcasm wrote: »

There's a chasm between the social classes Doc that grows wider by the hour.

You've no idea what life was like in 1940s and 1950s Ireland do you.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You've no idea what life was like in 1940s and 1950s Ireland do you.

I won't say I know exactly what it was like Doc, but I'd have a fair idea about the history of Irish society at the time, and I've talked to people of that generation. Even now I could tell you that when the Laundries were closed down, some women who weren't able to function in society are still holed up and shielded from society for their own protection.

They appreciate the coffee mornings once a week though for a bit of a chat.

jill_valentine

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm not trying anything Doc, only to have you realise that society won't change as much as you think it will, and in 20 years time, even 50 years time, there'll be another Doc Ruby proclaiming that society will change when the grey vote generation die off.

I'm 28, and the distance between the society I was born into and the one I live in now is already enormous. It's unimaginable now that divorce was not legal here once, but that's the Ireland I grew up in.

The grey vote is still a force to be reckoned with, absolutely, but there is a brick wall between the pre- and post- Father Ted generation's mentality that I do not believe will disappear entirely as the latter ages. Certainly, people get more conservative as they get older, but I do not believe that they will suddenly regress back to the attitudes of their forefathers about women, gay people, the Church, etc the day they tick past 60.

And when that day comes, certainly, the generation after us will look at us as the "grey vote" - and it will be their turn to learn from our mistakes and push us out of the way to start fixing them.

Dyr

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You've no idea what life was like in 1940s and 1950s Ireland do you.

youd probably have thave been born in the 20s or 30s to really know what life was like in ireland back the 40s or 50s. when were you born? 80s? 90s? please do tell us all about life back in the 40s, im sure it will be fascinating stuff

Doc Ruby

Bambi wrote: »

youd probably have thave been born in the 20s or 30s to really know what life was like in ireland back the 40s or 50s. when were you born? 80s? 90s? please do tell us all about life back in the 40s, im sure it will be fascinating stuff

Still sore over getting your arse kicked in the lefties abandoning the unemployed thread?

Czarcasm

jill_valentine wrote: »

I'm 28, and the distance between the society I was born into and the one I live in now is already enormous. It's unimaginable now that divorce was not legal here once, but that's the Ireland I grew up in.

I'm only eight years older than you jill so it's not like I'm an old fart or anything, but divorce is still looked upon in Irish society as some terrible thing, etc.

Bigotry, racism, homophobia - rampant.

Looking down on the most vulnerable in society - rampant.

The old grey farts may die off, but their ideas are passed down to the next generation, and the one after that, and so on. So while all these laws might change (hell, we may even see marriage equality legalised in our lifetime, but no doubt they'll make a cack handed job of it, just like they did with divorce legislation, abortion legislation), it still won't change society. It still won't change human nature. The issues will change, but the attitude will remain the same.

The grey vote is still a force to be reckoned with, absolutely, but there is a brick wall between the pre- and post- Father Ted generation's mentality that I do not believe will disappear entirely as the latter ages. Certainly, people get more conservative as they get older, but I do not believe that they will suddenly regress back to the attitudes of their forefathers about women, gay people, the Church, etc the day they tick past 60.

The church hasn't been relevant in Irish society for the last 20 years, so I really DO wonder what excuse society will come up with to justify their treatment of their fellow human beings in 20 years time.

And when that day comes, certainly, the generation after us will look at us as the "grey vote" - and it will be their turn to learn from our mistakes and push us out of the way to start fixing them.

They'll be just as powerless as we are now to push anyone out of the way tbh. In just the same way as the current grey generation don't like change, we won't want to welcome change all that much either.

uch

I can't believe this thread is still going

Doc Ruby

Czarcasm wrote: »

Bigotry, racism, homophobia - rampant.

Looking down on the most vulnerable in society - rampant.

I'm seriously starting to wonder what country you're living in if you think the above is true, because it's not Ireland. You've all but managed to paint a 19th century punch cartoon here. The divorce thing maybe, but that's exactly what I'm talking about - any prejuidices against that will vanish with the grey vote, hopefully taking the institution of marriage itself down with them.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to wonder what country you're living in if you think the above is true, because it's not Ireland. You've all but managed to paint a 19th century punch cartoon here. The divorce thing maybe, but that's exactly what I'm talking about - any prejuidices against that will vanish with the grey vote

I don't think there's any exaggeration in the picture I painted Doc tbh. I'm not one for hyperbole and extremes, and I can only talk about what I have read about and seen on a daily basis, things I have experienced, and the experiences other people have been gracious enough to share with me.

Prejudices won't vanish with the grey vote when I see how people younger than me are treated when they are going through separations and divorces, ain't no blue rinse brigade involved there, just people who care more about their status in society than they care about someone who is suffering.

hopefully taking the institution of marriage itself down with them.

Seriously Doc? At a time when the LGBT community are campaigning for marriage equality, you think the institution of marriage is going anywhere? It's not just RCs that get married, there are many other religions that involve marriage of some description, and hell, even my own was a civil marriage, which has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. Again, even when the blue rinse brigade are gone, people half my age will be planning on giving the family a day out with a white wedding!

Doc Ruby

Czarcasm wrote: »

I don't think there's any exaggeration in the picture I painted Doc tbh.

Okay, do share with us the location of the race riots, right wing nationalist parties, white supremacist movements and homosexual bashing which mar the cultures of our more enlightened European neighbours. No? Well I guess you must have been talking about a different country then, or are huffing nail polish.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Seriously Doc?

Yeah seriously, I've posted about this previously but short version, I don't approve of marriage.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Okay, do share with us the location of the race riots, right wing nationalist parties, white supremacist movements and homosexual bashing which mar the cultures of our more enlightened European neighbours. No? Well I guess you must have been talking about a different country then, or are huffing nail polish.

Ahh Christ, y'know upon first reading of your post I thought "I'd love to invite him down to work with me for a day and listen to some of the people I listen to and talk to them and engage with them", but tbh Doc and I mean this in the nicest most polite way possible - I'm not sure I could listen to you.

I never said anything about the hyperbolic extremes you've gone to. Here in Ireland we're far more sinister about it, we've become very adept at sweeping things under the carpet, ignoring things that go on in front of our faces, and generally going about our daily lives trying our best to get through each day. It's easier for us to ignore issues and pretend they don't exist when they don't directly affect us.

All you're doing Doc is ignoring issues that you think will all be solved when the grey generation kicks the bucket. You honestly think there won't be any issues such as xenophobia, racism, homophobia, bigotry, etc, when the current generation gets to be the grey generation?

I don't want to say you're deluded, as it'd be rude, but, blinkered, misguided and idealistic wouldn't nearly do your opinion justice either.

Doc Ruby

Czarcasm wrote: »

Here in Ireland we're far more sinister about it

That's pretty paranoid; you claim that in Ireland there's rampant racism, bigotry and homophobia. If it's rampant it can hardly be sinister and swept under the carpet now can it. Or is it rampantly sinister? You want your cake and eat it son, and what a cake that is.

Our own history is one of being demonised by others for our ethnic backgrounds, our language and our culture, and say what you like about the Irish, we do have long memories when it comes to such things. We, as much as any nation can be referred to as we, have no delusions on the matter and aren't about to turn around and inflict the same treatment on others.

Hell there are still places where people will spit in your shadow for being Irish.

Czarcasm wrote: »

All you're doing Doc is ignoring issues that you think will all be solved when the grey generation kicks the bucket.

Oho, I never said that. I said we wouldn't know the place. I also said I hope we can take the best of both worlds. In fact I'm not sure you've read a single word I've written. I also didn't say there were no racists, homophobes, or bigots in this country, just that it's not a noticeable problem here barring the odd taxi driver and BNP shill trying to stir up Sentiment. Certainly less than in almost every other developed country.

pharmaton

While I would hope that in twenty or thirty years time these issues will be dealt with the benefit of having a more informed society, there are still some issues lurking around in the shadows, even here on boards (at least within AH and for those affected by certain issues) it is painfully obvious that there is a whole lot more going on beneath the surface. "Dole scroungers" and the "Single mother brigade" not to mention the acceptable gay jokes (some of which could very well be considered more sinister than they claim to be) and all carried out in what is still a fairly sexist environment.
I read a post here the other day which was almost word for word a reflection of mrs Mhic Mhathuna's personal feelings toward single mothers and it's still kind of shocking to hear it come from another persons mouth, (the thread was locked shortly after but it makes me realise that we haven't really come very far at all. A couple of years ago those threads were ten a penny. People still harbour issues the only difference is they are more inclined to keep them to themselves for fear of being rejected in public but in twenty years time they are the ones who will be the "grey vote". They really haven't gone away you know.

Czarcasm

Doc Ruby wrote: »

That's pretty paranoid; you claim that in Ireland there's rampant racism, bigotry and homophobia. If it's rampant it can hardly be sinister and swept under the carpet now can it. Or is it rampantly sinister? You want your cake and eat it son, and what a cake that is.

It's not paranoia Doc to say that just because an attitude isn't immediately obvious when you don't see it, that it doesn't exist. I'm not going out of my way to look for it everywhere either, it's just "there"! It's an undercurrent, an attitude towards other people, very hard to put into words or explain, but when you see it, you know it.

Our own history is one of being demonised by others for our ethnic backgrounds, our language and our culture, and say what you like about the Irish, we do have long memories when it comes to such things. We, as much as any nation can be referred to as we, have no delusions on the matter and aren't about to turn around and inflict the same treatment on others.

You still think just take one example that's more relevant to this thread - you still think single mothers aren't looked down upon in society? Very much so they are, and nothing to do with religion either, just their social status.

Hell there are still places where people will spit in your shadow for being Irish.

People will spit in your shadow for lots of reasons, that's my point.

Oho, I never said that. I said we wouldn't know the place. I also said I hope we can take the best of both worlds. In fact I'm not sure you've read a single word I've written. I also didn't say there were no racists, homophobes, or bigots in this country, just that it's not a noticeable problem here barring the odd taxi driver and BNP shill trying to stir up Sentiment. Certainly less than in almost every other developed country.

I'm taking in everything you're saying Doc, all I'm saying is that you see Irish society heading off in some utopian direction, whereas I see Irish society heading in pretty much the same direction as the UK, only with as you quite rightly point out, less extremism, because we just don't have the population size for extremist views to gain ground thank fcuk.

At least that's one small thing Irish society has in it's favour - The pervasive attitude is one of "go with the flow, we'll ride it out, shìt happens, we're doing our best, wait till we get the grey voters out of the way and then things will change, etc".


Things haven't changed as much in the last 30 years or so in Irish society as people might like to think they have, and that's only while I've been alive. Most people in Irish society didn't have so much as a pot to piss in in the 50's (OK so they had the straw in a bucket outside, but you get the idea). Has Irish society really changed all that much when there are a hell of a lot of people with still not so much as a pot to piss in and mental health issues such as depression and suicide are just as rampant as they were in the 50's, if not moreso?

I suppose you'll tell me I'm wrong about that too?

How far we've come indeed...

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You're not confusing her with the other one, are you?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0807/332466-mine-bean-ui-chribin/

To be honest, I hope she is still alvie and can see the progress she tried to hard to prevent being made and the cruelty she tired so hard to condone being exposed for the evil that it is.

She failed. She lost. Good triumped over evil. I hope she's aware of it.

Yup I was confusing her with the other evil witch.

Wibbs

Czarcasm wrote: »

The church hasn't been relevant in Irish society for the last 20 years, so I really DO wonder what excuse society will come up with to justify their treatment of their fellow human beings in 20 years time.

Oh I agree 100% here. The church is and has been the whipping boy for all our collective ills. Oh don't get me wrong it well deserves a few lashes of the whip on a few levels, but people are all too quick to forget we were the church. We were all too happy as a society to bend to the crozier and the cassock. It did not operate in a vacuum. Plus it wasn't as if we were some cut off state either at the time. Through media and emigration we were well enough exposed to the wider world. At a time of colour tellies, pocket calculators, punk rock and package holidays* a million of us welcomed pope John Paul George Ringo at the Phoenix park alone.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to wonder what country you're living in if you think the above is true, because it's not Ireland.

Yea TBH I'm not seeing it either. Certainly not within an asses roar of such a bleak picture. All societies have their internal ills, we're no worse than most and a helluva lot better than many.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Things haven't changed as much in the last 30 years or so in Irish society as people might like to think they have, and that's only while I've been alive.

Well I've been alive for a little longer, a decade, give or take and I've seen major changes in Irish society. The religion thing is the most obvious, but attitudes have most definitely changed and mostly for the better. Coming out as gay today has it's trials yes, but the very thought of coming out in say 50's, 60's or even 70's Ireland would have been a whole other ballgame. Contraception? You couldn't even access it until the 80's and even then required a doctors note. Divorce? Didn't exist until the 80's unless you were able to wangle a church annulment(I knew of two that did). Working women were frowned upon and in the civil service had to give up working when they got married. Hell a husband could rape his wife with full protection/omission in law until 1990. Education? A lot fewer people went all the way to third level back in the day compared to now. That's just a sniff of the wider changes in Irish society in the last 30 years.

Most people in Irish society didn't have so much as a pot to piss in in the 50's (OK so they had the straw in a bucket outside, but you get the idea).

Outside of the post war boom in the US, most people in the wider west didn't have a pot to piss in in the 50's. The British still had rationing for feck sake and if it wasn't for the welfare state a lot of the place would have been near Dickensian in character and that was a country that had damn near ruled the world for two centuries. The communist states of Europe were fcuked. Germany was building itself up from the rubble. Ireland wasn't as bad as seems to be believed(in the urban areas anyway, rural areas were another story).

You still think just take one example that's more relevant to this thread - you still think single mothers aren't looked down upon in society?

It's significantly more accepted today than in the past. I remember a time when women were burying newborns in fields. Then you had the laundries where "fallen" women were hidden away. You can't begin to compare then to now, not unless you say we've come a helluva long way.

At least that's one small thing Irish society has in it's favour - The pervasive attitude is one of "go with the flow, we'll ride it out, shìt happens, we're doing our best, wait till we get the grey voters out of the way and then things will change, etc".

I'd say the more pervasive attitude among too bloody many is "oh we're pretty backward and awful aren't we. Oh our poor egos, please massage us". A real Chicken Licken the sky's falling down vibe that's around. That hasn't changed nearly as much as it should have.

Have we some way to go? Yes, but equally we've come a long enough way in a remarkably short time.




* even there a most popular package was Lourdes for a week to purge your oul sins, followed by a week in the costa del yippee to create more to confess. The crawthumpers could opt for the reverse.