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Fake musical instrument

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  • 08-08-2012 9:52am
    #1
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭


    I recently bought a musical instrument in a private sale that I later found out to be fake. So I know that you will all say buyer beware, suck it up and move on.
    However when I met this guy he was driving a van for a state owned company and it was during the normal working day. He was therefore selling fake goods from the company van when he should have been working.
    Apart from reporting this to the company and getting him a slap on the wrist is there any route I can take either against the individual or the company to get my money back?
    He has needless to say refused to answer emails and calls since the sale.


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    #2
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    cossagepie wrote: »
    Apart from reporting this to the company and getting him a slap on the wrist is there any route I can take either against the individual or the company to get my money back?

    No, there's nothing you can do. Buyer beware, as you already stated. It was a private sale.

    The company was not party to the sale, so even reporting it to them may not be of any use at all.

    Either way, there is no real way to get your money back, unfortunately.


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    #3
    johndoe99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭johndoe99


    was he selling the instrument as the true article. If so send him an email demanding your money back. Outline in the email that you will contact said company if he does not refund you. I bet he'll be in contact swiftly. Give the email a heading that will capture his attention, like "i'm contacting your company".


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    #4
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I recently bought a musical instrument in a private sale that I later found out to be fake. So I know that you will all say buyer beware, suck it up and move on.
    However when I met this guy he was driving a van for a state owned company and it was during the normal working day. He was therefore selling fake goods from the company van when he should have been working.
    Apart from reporting this to the company and getting him a slap on the wrist is there any route I can take either against the individual or the company to get my money back?
    He has needless to say refused to answer emails and calls since the sale.

    Do you know (and can you prove) that he knew it was fake? Otherwise contacting his company with the accusation that he's selling counterfeit goods from their vehicle is a big leap.

    Do you know that it was during his normal working day? He may work shifts and have been on his way to/from work when he met you.
    He may have been on an official break. Lots of people, especially who are out and about in the course of their work (sales reps etc.) may have been in their company vehicle when selling/delivering something they sold on Adverts.ie or where ever.

    It's only an issue if you make it one, and to be honest if you make it an issue then it's just because you're looking for petty revenge rather than through any other motivation.

    All IMHO, of course.


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    #5
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    While I find this type of sale despicable, isn't blackmail illegal? Be very careful what you put to paper.


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If you report it to the company, then chances are you will get a response along the same lines as AltAccount points out, that company employees have the use of company vans during non-working hours and so the employee was not doing anything wrong by meeting you in a company van.

    You cannot chase the company for money. They were not party to the sale, they have no liability.

    Although "Buyer Beware" is trotted about, it's not strictly that black-and-white. In the case that the seller has deliberately misled the buyer as to the nature or the condition of the item and taken steps to hide those facts at the time of sale, they can be done for fraud.

    However, it's a very tough thing to get traction on in private sales, for a number of reasons;

    - The buyer is usually given the opportunity to inspect the item before sale and should notice any issues then. Unlike retail sales, the seller is not considered an "expert" and therefore is not assumed to be capable of vouching for the integrity of the item.

    - You have to show that the seller deliberately misled the buyer and it wasn't just an error of omission or ignorance.


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    #7
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    I would be very careful about mentioning the company. the person sold it privately and perhaps he didnt know it was fake, if even he did you need to prove it first otherwise contacting the company and telling them this could be considered as defamation of character by the seller.


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    #8
    Nanazolie
    Registered Users Posts: 867 ✭✭✭Nanazolie


    How can musical instruments be fake? Did you not try them before buying? :confused:


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    #9
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Nanazolie wrote: »
    How can musical instruments be fake? Did you not try them before buying? :confused:

    Same as a Gucci handbag can be faked.. It's a bag, but its not made by Gucci, and therefore doesn't have the same value.

    There are lots of fake Fender/Gibson etc. guitars being sold online, and they are poor quality and worth a fraction of the cost of the real item.


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    #10
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I recently bought a musical instrument in a private sale that I later found out to be fake.
    Where was it advertised?
    Did the ad claim it was a genuine branded piece?
    How did you pay?
    Was the price you paid appropriate to a genuine branded piece or a knock-off?
    If you didn't realize it was fake branding, why are you so sure the seller knew?


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    #11
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Nanazolie wrote: »
    Did you not try them before buying? :confused:
    It might not be immediately obvious that its fake even if tested. Like people who buy high capacity memory cards and only find its fake when they eventually try to reach its max capacity.

    Even if it does the same job it will usually have a lower resale value if the reseller is honest and discloses it is fake.


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    #12
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    Jeez that's a lot of questions to be answered.
    The instrument was being sold as the true article and it is a very good copy. It was sold during the normal working day when the guy should have been working. I can not prove that he knew it was fake but I am convinced he did. I have reported it to the company and it is currently under investigation. I paid cash and a fair price for the genuine article. What I have put to paper are the facts.


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    #13
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    Jeez that's a lot of questions to be answered.
    The instrument was being sold as the true article and it is a very good copy. It was sold during the normal working day when the guy should have been working. I can not prove that he knew it was fake but I am convinced he did. I have reported it to the company and it is currently under investigation. I paid cash and a fair price for the genuine article. What I have put to paper are the facts.

    What has his company got to do with it?
    Why would you get someone in trouble with their employer because you couldn't spot a fake?
    What if he's formally disciplined, will it get you a refund?

    You have, as you admit, only suspicions and no proof.

    That was a petulant and petty move IMHO.


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    #14
    Samba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,476 ✭✭✭Samba


    cossagepie wrote: »
    Jeez that's a lot of questions to be answered.
    The instrument was being sold as the true article and it is a very good copy. It was sold during the normal working day when the guy should have been working. I can not prove that he knew it was fake but I am convinced he did. I have reported it to the company and it is currently under investigation. I paid cash and a fair price for the genuine article. What I have put to paper are the facts.

    Did you attempt to contact him first?


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    #15
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    cossagepie wrote: »
    . It was sold during the normal working day when the guy should have been working.
    already questioned
    AltAccount wrote: »
    Do you know that it was during his normal working day? He may work shifts and have been on his way to/from work when he met you.


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    #16
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    cossagepie wrote: »
    It was sold during the normal working day when the guy should have been working.
    ......
    I have reported it to the company and it is currently under investigation.

    Thats quite a nasty thing to do.


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    #17
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Thats quite a nasty thing to do.
    Yes indeed doing something else for your own benefit when you are supposed to be working for your employer is pretty dispicable!


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    #18
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Yes indeed doing something else for your own benefit when you are supposed to be working for your employer is pretty dispicable!

    Don't be daft. Contacting someones employer for something that is nothing to do with that employer purely to try and get them in the **** is just petty bollocks.


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    #19
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I recently bought a musical instrument in a private sale that I later found out to be fake.

    Some questions:

    How long did it take you to work out it was fake?

    How are you sure?

    Where was it advertised - i.e. online, newspaper classifieds, Buy & Sell?

    If online, has he any other instruments for sale under that username - i.e. Is he a habitual seller or was this a once off?


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    #20
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Thats quite a nasty thing to do.
    Yes indeed doing something else for your own benefit when you are supposed to be working for your employer is pretty dispicable!

    You've never picked up your dry cleaning or done anything similar during your work day?


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    #21
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    During lunch or while on breaks but never while on someone elses time!


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    #22
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Don't be daft. Contacting someones employer for something that is nothing to do with that employer purely to try and get them in the **** is just petty bollocks.

    errr...but it is something to do with the employer?
    If he was doing it on company time the employer is very much entitled to be aware of this.


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    #23
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Cabaal wrote: »
    errr...but it is something to do with the employer?
    If he was doing it on company time the employer is very much entitled to be aware of this.

    It's nothing to do with the employer - its pure vindictiveness.


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    #24
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    Cabaal wrote: »
    errr...but it is something to do with the employer?
    If he was doing it on company time the employer is very much entitled to be aware of this.

    There were other options before pressing the nuclear one first. Massive assumptions were made by the OP.


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    #25
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    During lunch or while on breaks but never while on someone elses time!

    Were these breaks taken during the standard working day?
    If you had any company identifiers - uniform, logo'd vehicle etc - did every employee diligently ensure to conceal the logo every time they took a break off company property?


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    #26
    The Royal Scam
    Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭The Royal Scam


    The fact that he wont reply to your calls and emails says to me he knew well it was fake and I think your right to be contacting the company. If it is a state run company and he is doing business on company hours (of course we dont know this is true) well then he sounds like a nice fella, looking after himself on taxpayers money


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    #27
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    The Royal Scam wrote: »
    The fact that he wont reply to your calls and emails says to me he knew well it was fake and I think your right to be contacting the company. If it is a state run company and he is doing business on company hours (of course we dont know this is true) well then he sounds like a nice fella, looking after himself on taxpayers money

    Or he was on holidays and hasn't access to email or a phone? And whether he works in public or private sector shouldn't matter and has nothing to do with the OP's issue (not to mention tax payers money goes to both public and private sector businesses).


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    #28
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,089 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    The Royal Scam wrote: »
    The fact that he wont reply to your calls and emails says to me he knew well it was fake and I think your right to be contacting the company. If it is a state run company and he is doing business on company hours (of course we dont know this is true) well then he sounds like a nice fella, looking after himself on taxpayers money

    The use of the word "company" implies that it is nothing to do with the State, in my opinion anyway.


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    #29
    readytosnap
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭readytosnap


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    Or he was on holidays and hasn't access to email or a phone?
    can you tell me where this holiday place is, i wanna go there :D


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    #30
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    readytosnap wrote: »
    can you tell me where this holiday place is, i wanna go there :D

    What a pathetic comment. Have you never been away on holidays without a phone or Email? I do regularly. I can't see the relevance of your point.


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    #31
    readytosnap
    Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭readytosnap


    Callie Huge Arcade wrote: »
    Have you never been away on holidays without a phone or Email?
    no never


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