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Fake musical instrument

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2

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    #32
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Callie Huge Arcade wrote: »
    What a pathetic comment. Have you never been away on holidays without a phone or Email? I do regularly. I can't see the relevance of your point.

    @readytosnap, Callie Huge Arcade - I can't see the continued relevance of this - please stop this line of conversation immediately

    dudara


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    #33
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    AltAccount wrote: »

    What has his company got to do with it?
    Why would you get someone in trouble with their employer because you couldn't spot a fake?
    What if he's formally disciplined, will it get you a refund?

    You have, as you admit, only suspicions and no proof.

    That was a petulant and petty move IMHO.

    You're not the seller by any chance are you? You're doing a great job of defending him.
    I tried all means of contacting him and warned him I would contact his employer before I did. I paid a lot of money when money is scarce. He had other musical equipment in the van. Whether it was fake or not I don't know. Since contacting his employer a line of communication has been opened with the seller which wouldn't have happened otherwise.
    I have bought and sold lots of musical equipment over the years and never had any problems. I recently sold something that developed a fault after a couple of days and I refunded the money because that was the right thing to do.
    If he's disciplined boohoo. He should have thought of that before he started selling from the van.


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    #34
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    If he keep selling fakes, report him to the revenue


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    #35
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Icepick wrote: »
    If he keep selling fakes, report him to the revenue
    I am not aware that the Revenue Commissioners have any role in relation to passing-off.

    OP, if the item you purchased was represented by the vendor as being of as particular manufacture, and it was not, then you have a basis to have the contract rescinded on the basis of misrepresentation.

    If I paid €5m for a violin because the vendor told me that it was a Stradivarius, and I learned that it was a copy, I would expect the court to vindicate me.


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    #36
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    You're not the seller by any chance are you? You're doing a great job of defending him.

    Why thank you, but no, I'm not him

    Any thoughts on these?
    AltAccount wrote: »
    Some questions:

    How long did it take you to work out it was fake?

    How are you sure?

    Where was it advertised - i.e. online, newspaper classifieds, Buy & Sell?

    If online, has he any other instruments for sale under that username - i.e. Is he a habitual seller or was this a once off?


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    #37
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Why thank you, but no, I'm not him

    Any thoughts on these?

    How long did it take you to work out it was fake?

    How are you sure?

    Where was it advertised - i.e. online, newspaper classifieds, Buy & Sell?

    If online, has he any other instruments for sale under that username - i.e. Is he a habitual seller or was this a once off?

    A couple of weeks.

    I'm 100% sure.

    Online.

    I've already said he was selling other musical equipment from the van. Under that username there is nothing for sale but that doesn't mean anything. He could have 50 usernames and if he has a problem with one he can just stop trading under it.


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    #38
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I'm 100% sure.

    How? Serial number, shop appraisal, a mate who knows about these things?


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    #39
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    AltAccount wrote: »
    How? Serial number, shop appraisal, a mate who knows about these things?

    I'm 100% sure. That's all you need to know.


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    #40
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    What instrument is it and what model?


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    #41
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    Sorry I'm not giving out any more information on this while I have an investigation into it taking place.


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    #42
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    But you were quick to contact the guy's employer, why is it an issue to post type of instrument and how exactly you confirmed it was a fake?. A more cynical reader would surmise that you may not have had it independently verified and may have wrongly accused the seller.


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    #43
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    AltAccount wrote: »
    How? Serial number, shop appraisal, a mate who knows about these things?

    I'm 100% sure. That's all you need to know.

    Why the secrecy? At the very least you could help stop another poster getting stung in the same manner.

    I'm confused as to why you're being so cagey.


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    #44
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    Ok guys I posted looking for advice and got some that was helpful. I'm not into going around in circles and having discussions about something that makes no difference to my original question.
    If I get a refund and it is returned to the seller and there is a possibility of it going back up for sale I will post the details here to help prevent someone else getting stung.


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    #45
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I'm 100% sure. That's all you need to know.

    It would be helpful to know. You wanted help? Two way street.


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    #46
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    cossagepie wrote: »
    I'm not into going around in circles and having discussions about something that makes no difference to my original question.

    A wise move, there are people here with more time on their hands than they know what to do with, a waste of everybody's time (their time and your time). Take what useful advise you've been given and move on.

    I hope it works out for you.


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    #47
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    Ok guys I posted looking for advice and got some that was helpful. I'm not into going around in circles and having discussions about something that makes no difference to my original question.
    If I get a refund and it is returned to the seller and there is a possibility of it going back up for sale I will post the details here to help prevent someone else getting stung.

    And what about the rest of the presumably fake instruments he had in the van?

    If you're sure and you know how to spot them, it's unfair of you to expect others to give you advice, but for you to leave everyone else exposed to the same risk.

    Whether you get a refund or not, if you're sure then share the info!


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    #48
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    Alex Shallow Zombie wrote: »
    A wise move, there are people here with more time on their hands than they know what to do with, a waste of everybody's time (their time and your time). Take what useful advise you've been given and move on.

    I hope it works out for you.

    Thanks Alex Shallow Zombie.....and never a truer word spoken :). What takes place here is voyeurism by some people. It's like being able to participate in a soap opera by throwing in a line every now and then and trying to get a reaction.


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    #49
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Even after all the posts in the thread, it's still going to be very very hard for you to get a refund since this was a private sale, unless, of course, the seller decides to be generous, or you take him to court and try to prove that he knew he was selling a fake.

    Since it took you weeks to work out it was a fake, he may very well be able to claim he had no idea.

    It could also be that he was selling multiple instruments since his band has fallen apart or something like that.

    So, even after all the posts in this thread, you may not get your money back.


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    #50
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Paulw wrote: »
    Even after all the posts in the thread, it's still going to be very very hard for you to get a refund since this was a private sale, unless, of course, the seller decides to be generous, or you take him to court and try to prove that he knew he was selling a fake.

    Since it took you weeks to work out it was a fake, he may very well be able to claim he had no idea.
    That is not sufficient defence. If he represented the instrument as being of a certain make, and even if he mistakenly believed he was telling the truth, it counts as misrepresentation, and the contract can be rescinded.


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    #51
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    That is not sufficient defence. If he represented the instrument as being of a certain make, and even if he mistakenly believed he was telling the truth, it counts as misrepresentation, and the contract can be rescinded.

    Yes, but to do that the OP would need to bring a civil action to court.


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    #52
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Paulw wrote: »
    Yes, but to do that the OP would need to bring a civil action to court.
    Very often the willingness (or even the appearance of willingness) to bring it to court is enough.

    On occasion I have warned people in a formal manner that unless they resolve a matter for me, I will initiate proceedings. I have never had to take the next step.


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    #53
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    But the allegation that the instrument is fake is at the crux of the matter, if the OP has independent and irrefutable evidence that the instrument is fake then it's a slam dunk, him being sure and him being right are two different things. If he is right, what's the problem with divulging his verification process?. Did he take it to an official distributor for the manufacturer for confirmation or is it just his opinion that it is fake (if he is wrong than he owes the seller an apology ). As for the voyeurism comment, this is a social media forum, if you post here, not everyone is required to agree with your point of view, that's the point of forums, the discussion of different view points.

    If he posts that an official distributor for the instrument manufacturer confirmed that it's a fake then the seller is in the wrong, and by the way you would be asked to produce this confirmation in a civil suit, but the fact that the OP has not posted how he confirmed its a fake may be interpreted that it's just his opinion. This isn't voyeurism, it's just an opinion that you should not accuse someone of something like this without evidence.

    Besides which, if he was selling fake instruments would they not be all the same instrument knocked up by a factory making copies, how would he have managed to get different fake instruments like a guitar, a set of drums, a keyboard etc,


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    #54
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    cossagepie wrote: »
    Thanks PMan.....and never a truer word spoken :). What takes place here is voyeurism by some people. It's like being able to participate in a soap opera by throwing in a line every now and then and trying to get a reaction.

    I play guitar.
    I have bought and sold a couple of instruments online.
    I've bought some stuff that I've not liked, and I've flipped it within a couple of days.
    Some of this stuff may have been counterfeit, I don't know. I never suspected anything, but nor could I really be sure either.
    For the vast majority of my working life I've driven a company vehicle, and seeing as I always had it for personal use also, I'm sure I've delivered or collected an item of equipment while driving a company vehicle.

    So, you can see where my interest in this thread is coming from.

    I started off reading the thread from a "oi, that's not fair. You can't dob him in to his employer just on the basis that he was driving a company vehicle" basis. I made my feelings on that pretty clear. Whether you care or not is up to you.

    I've since moved to a "what happens if I buy a counterfeit instrument, where does caveat emptor stop" or "what happens if I sell a counterfeit instrument, what are my liabilities", as I'm sure either situation is entirely possible.

    I'm trying to learn from this thread, and your answers, but you're being very, very cagey for a reason I can't fathom. You're asking for help and opinions, but not willing to give any assistance to other boardsies who may be exposed to the same situation.

    If you feel that's voyeurism or posting to get a reaction, then so be it.


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    #55
    cossagepie
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cossagepie


    AltAccount wrote: »
    I've since moved to a "what happens if I buy a counterfeit instrument, where does caveat emptor stop" or "what happens if I sell a counterfeit instrument, what are my liabilities", as I'm sure either situation is entirely possible.

    And there is the problem right there. Instead of thinking what are my liabilities surely what you should be thinking is what is the morally right thing to do. In my opinion it is to give a refund.
    I got a refund last night after chasing this guy for 2 months since I discovered I had a fake Fender Strat. He acknowledged my first email to him when I told him I discovered it was fake and he asked how could I tell. When I told him he refused to answer any emails or phone calls from me. I had a name and I don’t know if it was his real name, a phone number, and an email address and no other means of making contact apart from the vehicle. I told him this and gave him ample time to respond before I went to his employer. He still refused contact and I think gambled that he couldn’t be identified. Unfortunately for him his vehicle had tracking onboard and was also captured on cctv entering the retail park where we met.
    I went to the Gardai and was told there was no criminal case. I contacted a few solicitors about taking a case in the civil courts which I was fully prepared to do and had little interest because I’m sure the money involved was nothing to them, less than 1000 euro. It was a lot to me though. When a legal action was mentioned to his employer I suddenly had emails arriving again from the seller and last night a very meek and pissed off dickhead handed me back my money and took back the worthless piece of wood he sold me. I have to say the temptation was there to break it across his head Pete Townshend style but I figured he might be able to track me down because I was driving the company van ;)
    The lesson learned is definitely buyer beware. Research as much as possible before buying a Fender and check it over thoroughly before handing over cash. Take the neck off and check for a date stamp that matches the serial number. If the owner isn’t happy with doing that don’t buy. This was a very good copy with a genuine Fender Strat serial number that checks out on the Fender website.
    And if you are ripped off try every means possible to get your money back.


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    #56
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    So how are you so sure it was a fake??


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    #57
    johndoe99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭johndoe99


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    So how are you so sure it was a fake??

    did you not read his reply:
    Take the neck off and check for a date stamp that matches the serial number.

    more info:

    http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35431

    google is a handy tool:)


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    #58
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    johndoe99 wrote: »
    did you not read his reply:



    more info:

    http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35431

    google is a handy tool:)
    Did the serial and date stamp not match? Was there no date stamp at all?

    Was the date stamp on the body? And if it didn't match the serial on the neck, is the OP sure the neck wasn't replaced at some point?

    I'm just seeking clarification on how the OP knows for a fact that it was a fake.


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    #59
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    ... I'm just seeking clarification on how the OP knows for a fact that it was a fake.
    OP is satisfied it was a fake; the vendor has apparently accepted that it was a fake.

    So why are you banging on about it?


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    #60
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    OP is satisfied it was a fake; the vendor has apparently accepted that it was a fake.<br />
    <br />
    So why are you banging on about it?

    The "vendor" has not accepted that it is a fake at all, the vendor was not responding to the OP until the OP got in touch with his employer threatening legal action.

    The OP is satisfied it's a 100% fake, and I'm just asking how. That is all.


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    #61
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    The "vendor" has not accepted that it is a fake at all, the vendor was not responding to the OP until the OP got in touch with his employer threatening legal action.

    The OP is satisfied it's a 100% fake, and I'm just asking how. That is all.
    Alex Shallow Zombie wrote: »
    there are people here with more time on their hands than they know what to do with, a waste of everybody's time (their time and your time).

    .


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