Fake musical instrument

P. Breathnach

Paulw wrote: »

Yes, but to do that the OP would need to bring a civil action to court.

Very often the willingness (or even the appearance of willingness) to bring it to court is enough.

On occasion I have warned people in a formal manner that unless they resolve a matter for me, I will initiate proceedings. I have never had to take the next step.

davo10

But the allegation that the instrument is fake is at the crux of the matter, if the OP has independent and irrefutable evidence that the instrument is fake then it's a slam dunk, him being sure and him being right are two different things. If he is right, what's the problem with divulging his verification process?. Did he take it to an official distributor for the manufacturer for confirmation or is it just his opinion that it is fake (if he is wrong than he owes the seller an apology ). As for the voyeurism comment, this is a social media forum, if you post here, not everyone is required to agree with your point of view, that's the point of forums, the discussion of different view points.

If he posts that an official distributor for the instrument manufacturer confirmed that it's a fake then the seller is in the wrong, and by the way you would be asked to produce this confirmation in a civil suit, but the fact that the OP has not posted how he confirmed its a fake may be interpreted that it's just his opinion. This isn't voyeurism, it's just an opinion that you should not accuse someone of something like this without evidence.

Besides which, if he was selling fake instruments would they not be all the same instrument knocked up by a factory making copies, how would he have managed to get different fake instruments like a guitar, a set of drums, a keyboard etc,

AltAccount

cossagepie wrote: »

Thanks PMan.....and never a truer word spoken . What takes place here is voyeurism by some people. It's like being able to participate in a soap opera by throwing in a line every now and then and trying to get a reaction.

I play guitar.
I have bought and sold a couple of instruments online.
I've bought some stuff that I've not liked, and I've flipped it within a couple of days.
Some of this stuff may have been counterfeit, I don't know. I never suspected anything, but nor could I really be sure either.
For the vast majority of my working life I've driven a company vehicle, and seeing as I always had it for personal use also, I'm sure I've delivered or collected an item of equipment while driving a company vehicle.

So, you can see where my interest in this thread is coming from.

I started off reading the thread from a "oi, that's not fair. You can't dob him in to his employer just on the basis that he was driving a company vehicle" basis. I made my feelings on that pretty clear. Whether you care or not is up to you.

I've since moved to a "what happens if I buy a counterfeit instrument, where does caveat emptor stop" or "what happens if I sell a counterfeit instrument, what are my liabilities", as I'm sure either situation is entirely possible.

I'm trying to learn from this thread, and your answers, but you're being very, very cagey for a reason I can't fathom. You're asking for help and opinions, but not willing to give any assistance to other boardsies who may be exposed to the same situation.

If you feel that's voyeurism or posting to get a reaction, then so be it.

cossagepie

AltAccount wrote: »

I've since moved to a "what happens if I buy a counterfeit instrument, where does caveat emptor stop" or "what happens if I sell a counterfeit instrument, what are my liabilities", as I'm sure either situation is entirely possible.

And there is the problem right there. Instead of thinking what are my liabilities surely what you should be thinking is what is the morally right thing to do. In my opinion it is to give a refund.
I got a refund last night after chasing this guy for 2 months since I discovered I had a fake Fender Strat. He acknowledged my first email to him when I told him I discovered it was fake and he asked how could I tell. When I told him he refused to answer any emails or phone calls from me. I had a name and I don’t know if it was his real name, a phone number, and an email address and no other means of making contact apart from the vehicle. I told him this and gave him ample time to respond before I went to his employer. He still refused contact and I think gambled that he couldn’t be identified. Unfortunately for him his vehicle had tracking onboard and was also captured on cctv entering the retail park where we met.
I went to the Gardai and was told there was no criminal case. I contacted a few solicitors about taking a case in the civil courts which I was fully prepared to do and had little interest because I’m sure the money involved was nothing to them, less than 1000 euro. It was a lot to me though. When a legal action was mentioned to his employer I suddenly had emails arriving again from the seller and last night a very meek and pissed off dickhead handed me back my money and took back the worthless piece of wood he sold me. I have to say the temptation was there to break it across his head Pete Townshend style but I figured he might be able to track me down because I was driving the company van
The lesson learned is definitely buyer beware. Research as much as possible before buying a Fender and check it over thoroughly before handing over cash. Take the neck off and check for a date stamp that matches the serial number. If the owner isn’t happy with doing that don’t buy. This was a very good copy with a genuine Fender Strat serial number that checks out on the Fender website.
And if you are ripped off try every means possible to get your money back.

MagicMarker

So how are you so sure it was a fake??

johndoe99

MagicMarker wrote: »

So how are you so sure it was a fake??

did you not read his reply:

Take the neck off and check for a date stamp that matches the serial number.

more info:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35431

google is a handy tool:)

MagicMarker

johndoe99 wrote: »

did you not read his reply:



more info:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35431

google is a handy tool:)

Did the serial and date stamp not match? Was there no date stamp at all?

Was the date stamp on the body? And if it didn't match the serial on the neck, is the OP sure the neck wasn't replaced at some point?

I'm just seeking clarification on how the OP knows for a fact that it was a fake.

P. Breathnach

MagicMarker wrote: »

... I'm just seeking clarification on how the OP knows for a fact that it was a fake.

OP is satisfied it was a fake; the vendor has apparently accepted that it was a fake.

So why are you banging on about it?

MagicMarker

P. Breathnach wrote: »

OP is satisfied it was a fake; the vendor has apparently accepted that it was a fake.<br />
<br />
So why are you banging on about it?

The "vendor" has not accepted that it is a fake at all, the vendor was not responding to the OP until the OP got in touch with his employer threatening legal action.

The OP is satisfied it's a 100% fake, and I'm just asking how. That is all.

i71jskz5xu42pb

MagicMarker wrote: »

The "vendor" has not accepted that it is a fake at all, the vendor was not responding to the OP until the OP got in touch with his employer threatening legal action.

The OP is satisfied it's a 100% fake, and I'm just asking how. That is all.

Alex Shallow Zombie wrote: »

there are people here with more time on their hands than they know what to do with, a waste of everybody's time (their time and your time).

.

MagicMarker

Alex Shallow Zombie wrote: »

.

An excellent use of your time. Well done.

Zab

AltAccount wrote: »

I started off reading the thread from a "oi, that's not fair. You can't dob him in to his employer just on the basis that he was driving a company vehicle" basis. I made my feelings on that pretty clear. Whether you care or not is up to you.

I can understand where you're coming from here AltAccount, but I think you're making a mistake by putting yourself in this seller's shoes. As I'm sure that you're an honest trader I assume you aren't going to stop responding to emails after you've been informed that you sold a fake. On the other hand, if somebody defrauds me and refuses to do anything about it then I'd feel okay contacting his whatever after the threat of doing so didn't yield results. This would never apply to you as you'd never let it get that far.

AltAccount

Zab wrote: »

I can understand where you're coming from here AltAccount, but I think you're making a mistake by putting yourself in this seller's shoes. As I'm sure that you're an honest trader I assume you aren't going to stop responding to emails after you've been informed that you sold a fake. On the other hand, if somebody defrauds me and refuses to do anything about it then I'd feel okay contacting his whatever after the threat of doing so didn't yield results. This would never apply to you as you'd never let it get that far.

Well, to be honest, if I accidentally purchased, owned and subsequently sold a counterfeit instrument without realising it, I'm not sure how quick I'd be to give a refund. Caveat emptor would apply just as much to my 'customer' as it did to me when buying it.

Which is why I'm interested in the legal, as well as moral, angle.

I also don't want to get stung with this particular instrument, so do I want anyone else to be, which is why I'm pushing the OP to give more identifying information.

P. Breathnach

AltAccount wrote: »

Well, to be honest, if I accidentally purchased, owned and subsequently sold a counterfeit instrument without realising it, I'm not sure how quick I'd be to give a refund. Caveat emptor would apply just as much to my 'customer' as it did to me when buying it....

Caveat emptor does not apply where there is misrepresentation, even innocent misrepresentation. If you sold a guitar as a Fender Stratocaster, and it was a fake, then the purchaser is entitled to rescind the contract.

That's the legal angle.