Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

Agent Coulson

It will be interesting to see if HBO/Warner find against Joss especially since he is making there marquee series for next year and they paid a Fortune for it in a bidding war with the likes of Netflix and Amazon.

Psychiatric Patrick

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if HBO/Warner find against Joss especially since he is making there marquee series for next year and they paid a Fortune for it in a bidding war with the likes of Netflix and Amazon.

Is his new show really the big one for the streaming service?

Would it be a factor in this? Contracts, etc, are signed and such another is little Whedon can do other than threaten sabotage of the project - which could end his career. What studio would work with him again?

The White Wolf

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I Googled but everything I find is about the current investigation.

How Fisher specified what this abusive behaviour is and who it was directed at besides himself?

I assume Cavill, Gadot and Affleck were not treated that way. And since no heads were removed from bodies during the production hat neither was Momoa.

As to the movie itself, how much of what we got was Snyder's footage and how much was Whedon's? I thought that Snyder had actually finished filming when he left the production. I have a memory of Whedon himself claiming he ws simply standing in for Snyder for the post-production process.

There were (alleged, relax now) stories of Gadot being threatened by Whedon with her career for not wanting to do a scene, and also of Affleck being torn into in front of cast and crew for deviating slightly from Whedon's script, so at the very least it sounds like he fostered a very uncomfortable and difficult environment probably out of belief he was the new big dog for WB/DC.

Regardless, I'm happy to sit back and see what this investigation does or doesn't unfold.

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

There were (alleged, relax now) stories of Gadot being threatened by Whedon with her career for not wanting to do a scene, and also of Affleck being torn into in front of cast and crew for deviating slightly from Whedon's script, so at the very least it sounds like he fostered a very uncomfortable and difficult environment probably out of belief he was the new big dog for WB/DC.

Regardless, I'm happy to sit back and see what this investigation does or doesn't unfold.

First, I'm not going to get on a high horse about the need for words like "allegedly".

I certainly wasn't expecting Affleck to have been a "victim". I have it in my head that he is movie star and doesn't get spoken like that and certainly not by the likes of Whedon - I like his stuff and he is a big deal to nerds he is not a big deal I the movie business. His filmography is tiny.

I forget the actors are people and the film set is like any job.

Any idea what the scene was that Gadot didn't want t do and why? I hear that and initial thought it sex or nudity related but I don't recall anything like that in the movie.

I read this morning that Fisher did reach out to people higher at Warner Bros. during the production but it got back to Geoff Johns.

I wonder did he try again afterward or did he speak to the rest of the cast. Have they commented? How often has Fisher talked abut it all?

Also, who would the third party investigators be? And why might they be necessary? WB clearly has enough evidence or statements to justify taking it further but wouldn't that also be enough to haul Whedon and others in for a slap on the wrists?

The White Wolf

I think Affleck was beaten down at that point between everything going on personally for him, and that Whedon had Geoff Johns backing him up.

The scene Gadot refused to do allegedly was where Flash falls on too of her face to boob, so they used a body double instead.

It was strange that Fisher wasn't backed up by the cast but who knows what the legalities are in divulging information on productions where NDAs would have been signed. I assume that why Fisher was being vague himself.

And yes also strange that WB hired a 3rd party to investigate, one could see both good and bad outcomes from that.

CramCycle

The White Wolf wrote: »

And yes also strange that WB hired a 3rd party to investigate, one could see both good and bad outcomes from that.

I would have thought that was good corporate governance, so that their can't be claims of covering up or bias. HR would deal with it to a point but if there is a hint that due to the seniority of those involved it would be prudent to remove any strong biases or protectionism.

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

I think Affleck was beaten down at that point between everything going on personally for him, and that Whedon had Geoff Johns backing him up.

The scene Gadot refused to do allegedly was where Flash falls on too of her face to boob, so they used a body double instead.

It was strange that Fisher wasn't backed up by the cast but who knows what the legalities are in divulging information on productions where NDAs would have been signed. I assume that why Fisher was being vague himself.

And yes also strange that WB hired a 3rd party to investigate, one could see both good and bad outcomes from that.

It seems that I think movie stars get treated like royalty all the time and I forget that people in all walks of life can be bullied and such.

I didn't much attention to Fisher's first complaints for the very reason that none of the other cast said anything. I assumed he was moaning because it didn't kick start a big career for him. It have as you say - contracts - some were headed for solo movies and probably didn't know what to say and Affleck as you point out had other problems.

Maybe the WB investigation hit a roadblock dealing with Whedon and Johns or WB needed outsiders for protecting their investment in Nevers and other stuff these guys are working on.

Anyway I do regret rolling my eyes at Fisher as he does seem to have been standing up to bullies

Psychiatric Patrick

CramCycle wrote: »

I would have thought that was good corporate governance, so that their can't be claims of covering up or bias. HR would deal with it to a point but if there is a hint that due to the seniority of those involved it would be prudent to remove any strong biases or protectionism.

It is the kind of decision I would expect in reaction to something with a big public outcry like sexual misconduct. Something to keep it quiet.

There has been much publicity around this "classic" bullying that I'm aware of.

So I am very impressed by decision from WB.

pixelburp

Teaser for the teaser time; not much to be gleaned beyond there'll be more Cyborg backstory - and the big JL v. Superman dust up happens at night (rather than the washed out daytime fight from the Whedon version)

https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1296437963224690694

Psychiatric Patrick

pixelburp wrote: »

Teaser for the teaser time; not much to be gleaned beyond there'll be more Cyborg backstory - and the big JL v. Superman dust up happens at night (rather than the washed out daytime fight from the Whedon version)

https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1296437963224690694

That is disappointing. Scenes like that look more epic in daylight.

How much of the principle photography had Snyder completed and how much of the theatrical release was his footage?

kerplun k

I know they have to try and keep the hype train going on this one, but I wish they’d just cool the jets a bit.

There’s only so much hype you can generate for a film that’s already been released before it falls over the edge.. I’d say most people are only interested in this as a comparison piece.

Psychiatric Patrick

kerplun k wrote: »

I know they have to try and keep the hype train going on this one, but I wish they’d just cool the jets a bit.

There’s only so much hype you can generate for a film that’s already been released before it falls over the edge.. I’d say most people are only interested in this as a comparison piece.

I'd be interested to know what you base that on.

And this story is not a good promotional piece for the movie or the studio. Even though WB are acting on it they still didn't respond well /missed what was going on.

I',m sure they would much rather no one knows about any of it.

The White Wolf

kerplun k wrote: »

I know they have to try and keep the hype train going on this one, but I wish they’d just cool the jets a bit.

There’s only so much hype you can generate for a film that’s already been released before it falls over the edge.. I’d say most people are only interested in this as a comparison piece.

Visually speaking alone it should be a worthwhile spectacle. Based on the teasers so far Whedon really did suck the life out of any colour in Snyder's scenes so that they would mesh with his own.

Psychiatric Patrick

I'll ask again :pac::pac:

How much of the principle photography had Snyder completed and how much of the theatrical release was his footage?

The White Wolf

No one knows! Will be interesting when we finally get the answer. I'd say most of Superman's scenes in the TC were Whedon's and Snyder claims he won't use one bit of Whedon's work so that in itself should change Superman's story significantly.

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

No one knows! Will be interesting when we finally get the answer. I'd say most of Superman's scenes in the TC were Whedon's and Snyder claims he won't use one bit of Whedon's work so that in itself should change Superman's story significantly.

There are different accounts on line on how much of the movie footage came from which director. I thought maybe some some had figured it out

I did read that Snyder said that about the Whedon stuff. I knew the question would be asked and I expected some kind of diplomatic response and fir the question to get asked over and over.

Snyder was not diplomatic at all and no one is going to ask the question again

The White Wolf

Snyder isn't a subtle bloke online and is exactly how you'd expect him to be watching his films! Not saying he's an arse or anything but he's very loud in his statements.

kerplun k

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what you base that on.

Absolutely nothing, just my general opinion.

I’ve already seen the Snyder teaser trailer from 2016 comic con, now I’d like to see a final Snyder trailer and then the actual cut.

I’m interested in this as a comparison piece. I’m interested in the tone, style visuals and slight narrative deviations from the OG, but keep in mind, it’s going to be essentially the same film, so again I’d rather they keep the hype to a minimum.

I’ve already seen the marketing campaign, watched the movie and spent time digesting it, I don’t need to be sold it again. I think overhyping this will obscure people’s expectations. Again, It’s not a new film, it’s a film that’s already had a full on multi million dollar marketing campaign, wide released, followed by a Snyder cut campaign and then a re-release. I think this cut would benefit from a bit of breathing space, let Snyder do his thing, let him finish what he wanted to do and then we’ll watch it and compare to Whedon's film.

kerplun k

The White Wolf wrote: »

Visually speaking alone it should be a worthwhile spectacle. Based on the teasers so far Whedon really did suck the life out of any colour in Snyder's scenes so that they would mesh with his own.

Agree. Whedons version really did look so bland.
I’m Looking forward to seeing the visuals in Snyder's version.

pixelburp

Whedon was always a weird choice as a quick gap filler. He's an absolutely terrible, TV grade director; and even if only Synder can do Synder, surely they could have got someone more cinematic and cine-literate ala Ron Howard, a solid professional. Sure, Whedon for rewrites but not directing too. Past is past of course but seemed like a bad decision by WB

Tony EH

Not even for rewrites Pix.

pixelburp

Personal opinion of his output aside, Joss Whedon is a writer. That's his strength and career in a nutshell. Writers pivoting to directing is a mixed bag at best, dating back to Michael Crichton or Stephen King trying their hands with hilarious results. What Ron Howard did with Solo was a minor miracle (again. Leaving aside subjective quality of the end result) and more suited to the crash job needed on justice League

kerplun k

pixelburp wrote: »

Writers pivoting to directing is a mixed bag at best, dating back to Michael Crichton or Stephen King trying their hands with hilarious results.

Charlie Kaufman’s Synecdoche, New York springs to mind here.

johnny_ultimate

kerplun k wrote: »

Charlie Kaufman’s Synecdoche, New York springs to mind here.

In the context of it being one of the all time great pieces of modern cinematic art, I hope

kerplun k

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

In the context of it being one of the all time great pieces of modern cinematic art, I hope

What I saw was an incoherent mess, but each to their own I suppose.

I must give it a rewatch. Perfect timing as well before CKs new film, I'm Thinking of Ending Things is released.

Psychiatric Patrick

kerplun k wrote: »

Absolutely nothing, just my general opinion.

I’ve already seen the Snyder teaser trailer from 2016 comic con, now I’d like to see a final Snyder trailer and then the actual cut.

I’m interested in this as a comparison piece. I’m interested in the tone, style visuals and slight narrative deviations from the OG, but keep in mind, it’s going to be essentially the same film, so again I’d rather they keep the hype to a minimum.

I’ve already seen the marketing campaign, watched the movie and spent time digesting it, I don’t need to be sold it again. I think overhyping this will obscure people’s expectations. Again, It’s not a new film, it’s a film that’s already had a full on multi million dollar marketing campaign, wide released, followed by a Snyder cut campaign and then a re-release. I think this cut would benefit from a bit of breathing space, let Snyder do his thing, let him finish what he wanted to do and then we’ll watch it and compare to Whedon's film.

An opinion has to nee based on something though.

I have of an interest than just comparing the two. I want a truly epic super team up movie.

Having the same story doesn't make it the same movie.

Where is the hype thing coming from? The investigation is separate and not something WB want us focusing on. Since the the start the whole Snyder Cut think has been a fairly small blip on the internet.
it is not exactly flooding us like Star Wars was

Psychiatric Patrick

kerplun k wrote: »

What I saw was an incoherent mess, but each to their own I suppose.

I must give it a rewatch. Perfect timing as well before I'm Thinking of Ending Things is released.

Jaysus I misunderstood that last bit for a moment

Didn't even think it might be a joke - thought you were serious :rolleyes:

kerplun k

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Jaysus I misunderstood that last bit for a moment

Didn't even think it might be a joke - thought you were serious :rolleyes:

Hahahahaha.

Only realising how that reads now.

Psychiatric Patrick

kerplun k wrote: »

Hahahahaha.

Only realising how that reads now.

Funny now but for those few moment I felt surge of panic

brevity

Trailer

https://streamable.com/amp_player/33p2c0?__twitter_impression=true

I really don’t like that song.

The White Wolf

I thought the song was slapped on by the uploader initially, probably because I wasn't expecting it.

But I like the combination of song and scenes in the end, they felt fitting.

Loved the bit at the end, it feels like they're taking the Apocalypse seriously this time around.:pac:

Agent Coulson

I did like the song actually I think it suited the trailer well.

Mr Crispy

Just made me think of the awful Watchmen sex scene tbh.

McDermotX

4hrs long

4 parts, but will be watchable as a single film according to Snyder himself.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6512XKKNkU

Psychiatric Patrick

McDermotX wrote: »

4hrs long

4 parts, but will be watchable as a single film according to Snyder himself.

I was hoping for 6 hours but 4 is fine :pac::pac:

Psychiatric Patrick

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6512XKKNkU

I always avoid trailers. Not just in case it reveals story details but I considered knowing how a film looks to be a spoiler.

Couldn't resist watching this though.

Is that Darkseid at the start

I know there was lot of chatter about Superman having a black costume and it seemed like a lot of fans what it. Why is that?

I'm a sucker for superhero costume being as close to the original designs as possible, especially keeping Superman and Spider-Man in blue and red.

Tefral

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I always avoid trailers. Not just in case it reveals story details but I considered knowing how a film looks to be a spoiler.

Couldn't resist watching this though.

Is that Darkseid at the start

I know there was lot of chatter about Superman having a black costume and it seemed like a lot of fans what it. Why is that?

I'm a sucker for superhero costume being as close to the original designs as possible, especially keeping Superman and Spider-Man in blue and red.

Superman needed the black costume to recover quicker to help absorb the suns rays. (Black absorbs and white reflects) its in the comics.

Psychiatric Patrick

Tefral wrote: »

Superman needed the black costume to recover quicker to help absorb the suns rays. (Black absorbs and white reflects) its in the comics.

Okay. Now that you explain I feel thick for not copping on :pac::pac:

I hope he is back in the traditional colours at the end.

The White Wolf

I assumed that it was Desaad in the hood in the trailer but Heavy Spoilers on YouTube pointed out that it could be Steppenwolf being banished from Apokilips after first invasion of earth failed. The face design seems to match the facial design of Steppenwolf in a later scene (from what we can slightly see).

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

I assumed that it was Desaad in the hood in the trailer but Heavy Spoilers on YouTube pointed out that it could be Steppenwolf being banished from Apokilips after first invasion of earth failed. The face design seems to match the facial design of Steppenwolf in a later scene (from what we can slightly see).

I don't know much about the characters of Apokilips but the chin of the being in the hood does seem the be the same chin Steppenwolf has.

But is that Darkseidat the beginning? If it is I'm surprised they'd reveal him so early but the looked very thin to be Darkseid.

Is Steppenwolf banishment mentioned in the theatrical version?

The White Wolf

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I don't know much about the characters of Apokilips but the chin of the being in the hood does seem the be the same chin Steppenwolf has.

But is that Darkseidat the beginning? If it is I'm surprised they'd reveal him so early but the looked very thin to be Darkseid.

Is Steppenwolf banishment mentioned in the theatrical version?

The chins do seem to match.

That's "Uxas" at the beginning, basically a young Darkseid.

Steppenwolf is meant to be banished after the first failed invasion, and the reason he's searching for the mother boxes in Justice League is to literally unlock his mother's power in order to overthrow Darkseid.

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

The chins do seem to match.

That's "Uxas" at the beginning, basically a young Darkseid.

Steppenwolf is meant to be banished after the first failed invasion, and the reason he's searching for the mother boxes in Justice League is to literally unlock his mother's power in order to overthrow Darkseid.

I did not know anything about Darkseid's origins. I read a bit up to how he created Deesad but stopped in case any of it is in the new Cut.

Is that what Steppenwolf is up to in the theatrical cut or the Snyder Cut or both? I don't remember anything about being banished and would have said, if asked, he was working for Darkseid.

And that is not me having a pop at the Whedon cut. It is just my bad memory.

I enjoyed the theatrical version. The Steppenwolf VFX were brutal, there was not enough about the League chargers outside of the mission and there was not enough Superman but I like it.

CramCycle

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Is that what Steppenwolf is up to in the theatrical cut or the Snyder Cut or both? I don't remember anything about being banished and would have said, if asked, he was working for Darkseid.

And that is not me having a pop at the Whedon cut. It is just my bad memory.

That was Whedon fulfilling his brief, getting it to screen ASAP and closing it off so you can turn the key and close it off.

Tazzimus

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

there was not enough Superman but I like it.

The problem with Superman is you can't really have him in the whole film, otherwise nothings a threat.
When he did show up, he was toying with Steppenwolf.
Marvel have the same problem with Captain Marvel.

You either need to take them out of the film early to do other stuff, or limit their power with some form of mcguffin. Otherwise it's over after the first conflict.

The White Wolf

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I did not know anything about Darkseid's origins. I read a bit up to how he created Deesad but stopped in case any of it is in the new Cut.

Is that what Steppenwolf is up to in the theatrical cut or the Snyder Cut or both? I don't remember anything about being banished and would have said, if asked, he was working for Darkseid.

And that is not me having a pop at the Whedon cut. It is just my bad memory.

I enjoyed the theatrical version. The Steppenwolf VFX were brutal, there was not enough about the League chargers outside of the mission and there was not enough Superman but I like it.

Steppenwolf's motivations are quite different between the cuts. The stuff I mentioned was not in Whedon's film

And I hated the theatrical version. :P Couldn't wait to walk out, felt like I was watching a random episode of some Justice League animated TV show. Not even a finale!

Psychiatric Patrick

Tazzimus wrote: »

The problem with Superman is you can't really have him in the whole film, otherwise nothings a threat.
When he did show up, he was toying with Steppenwolf.
Marvel have the same problem with Captain Marvel.

You either need to take them out of the film early to do other stuff, or limit their power with some form of mcguffin. Otherwise it's over after the first conflict.

No you can just give them an adversary that is a threat. Or an lot of less powerful ones.

The animated Justice League had a lot of stories where they didn't have to limit any powers.

Psychiatric Patrick

The White Wolf wrote: »

Steppenwolf's motivations are quite different between the cuts. The stuff I mentioned was not in Whedon's film

Okies.

Is he still mo-capped and voiced bu=y Ciaran Hinds?

The White Wolf wrote: »

I hated the theatrical version. :P Couldn't wait to walk out, felt like I was watching a random episode of some Justice League animated TV show. Not even a finale!

I loved every episode of the animated series so that is why it suit me.:D:

When are we getting HBO Max over here?

techdiver

The character in the hood definitely looked to be DeSaad to me. Check out the animated movie Justice League: War. He appears in that movie. He always appears with a hood on as in the trailer with similar facial features.

He is basically one of Darkseids right hand men.

Tazzimus

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

No you can just give them an adversary that is a threat. Or an lot of less powerful ones.

The animated Justice League had a lot of stories where they didn't have to limit any powers.

There's only really a handful that are a threat to him though, they've already killed Doomsday and Zod.
Need to save the others for big films so they don't run out of credible enemies too soon. Darkseid will obviously be showing up at some stage.

Throwing lots of less powerful ones at him would be a waste as well, as you know they're not a threat, just takes a bit longer due to numbers.



That's the problem when one of your main heroes is basically invincible with all sorts of powers.