Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

kerplun k

ThePott wrote: »

I am surprised that they haven't split it into two two hour chunks. If nothing else because Snyder has said that if it were to play cinemas there was an intermission built in, from a purely promotional standpoint splitting it in two would make sense.

Think I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't split it because of complex contractual agreements with some of its stars. I think it would have been too messy and expensive to break it up.

CramCycle

kerplun k wrote: »

Think I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't split it because of complex contractual agreements with some of its stars. I think it would have been too messy and expensive to break it up.

As in they would argue it counted as two movies and therefore should be paid more? Might be the simplest explanation.

ThePott

kerplun k wrote: »

Think I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't split it because of complex contractual agreements with some of its stars. I think it would have been too messy and expensive to break it up.

That makes sense, I remember that was one of the big concerns about revisiting this. Would the contracts allow them to make this or is this a whole new costly deal. Logically they didn't sign up for a "TV Series" so from a legal standpoint if nothing else the probably had to cover themselves.

Penn

WB and DC rebooting Superman, with JJ Abrams to produce and Ta-Nehisi Coates to write.

Wonder do they go full reboot or give Henry Cavill another shot at the cape in a new story. Cavill could have been a fantastic Clark/Supes in the right movie. Would be a real shame if this is the end, but maybe a non-moustache Justice League is now all we have left from him.

pixelburp

Hopefully they retain Cavill as Supes, and keep Abrams the hell away from the writers room; that Coates isn't brow beaten into listening to Abrams. Shame to replace one empty vessel in Synder with another, but Abrams might be a silent producer...

ThePott

The original reporter of this said that the search for Superman hasn't begun yet but seems the consensus at the moment is that Cavill will not be back.

Agent Coulson

DC/WB really are diluting there Superhero IP with so many TV & Film productions using the same characters.

Edit: how long before they make a Calvin Ellis Superman film?

Lithium93_

pixelburp wrote: »

Hopefully they retain Cavill as Supes, and keep Abrams the hell away from the writers room; that Coates isn't brow beaten into listening to Abrams. Shame to replace one empty vessel in Synder with another, but Abrams might be a silent producer...

I'd almost put money on it, that one of them will end up walking up due to the old "creative differences"

johnny_ultimate

Warner Bros / Hollywood need to reboot themselves to the point when they were making more original films rather than endlessly regurgitating the same bloody franchises.

kerplun k

CramCycle wrote: »

As in they would argue it counted as two movies and therefore should be paid more? Might be the simplest explanation.

Think it was more an issue of presenting it as a television show.

pixelburp

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Warner Bros / Hollywood need to reboot themselves to the point when they were making more original films rather than endlessly regurgitating the same bloody franchises.

They won't until they fluke their way to the winning formula, without the indignity of being seen to just copy the MCU - which is clearly the right play at this stage. Junk the universe, start again like the MCU and a longform approach with a creative king at the top; it's what they want without having the nerve to admit it.

Thing is, there is a Superman movie out there worth making regardless of ones feeling about franchise filmmaking, WB just keep swinging in all sorts of directions bar the simplest, easiest one. Take a beloved superman comic that ISN'T by Frank Miller or Mark Millar, adapt it. Done.

Modern writers have made all sorts of really interesting stories about Clark, and what it means to be superman WITHOUT navel gazing, an immigrant tale, but WB won't go there.

Penn

Penn wrote: »

WB and DC rebooting Superman, with JJ Abrams to produce and Ta-Nehisi Coates to write.

Wonder do they go full reboot or give Henry Cavill another shot at the cape in a new story. Cavill could have been a fantastic Clark/Supes in the right movie. Would be a real shame if this is the end, but maybe a non-moustache Justice League is now all we have left from him.

Interested to see who they choose to direct. Coates is ideal as a writer and could bring a new approach to it. A socially conscious writer for a hero like superman could really approach it from the correct angle.

kerplun k

Word on the grapevine is that Cavill is out.
Jez. Another Superman reboot. Seems Hollywood have learned nothing from all those lessons that dangled in front of them as a result of the pandemic. Hell, it was already in a bad state before 2020. If they haven’t learnt anything in the past year, the future looks very bleak for blockbuster cinema. The industry is more competitive than ever. If ever there was a time needed for ambitious, bold, adventurousness film making, it’s now.

Brief_Lives

Penn wrote: »

WB and DC rebooting Superman, with JJ Abrams to produce and Ta-Nehisi Coates to write.

Wonder do they go full reboot or give Henry Cavill another shot at the cape in a new story. Cavill could have been a fantastic Clark/Supes in the right movie. Would be a real shame if this is the end, but maybe a non-moustache Justice League is now all we have left from him.

Is this for real? (i casually read this site, i don´t use twitter)

if Cavill is back, can it be called a reboot. I liked Man of Steel. not sure why all the hate.

Penn

I'm just glad JJ Abrams isn't writing/directing, otherwise we'd get the same story as Superman 1 but with some minor changes.

Penn

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Is this for real? (i casually read this site, i don´t use twitter)

if Cavill is back, can it be called a reboot. I liked Man of Steel. not sure why all the hate.

Yeah, it's real

https://deadline.com/2021/02/superman-reboot-in-the-works-at-warner-bros-with-ta-nehisi-coates-writing-j-j-abrams-producing-1234701922/

Looking like Cavill won't be back and it's a full reboot.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

DC/WB really are diluting there Superhero IP with so many TV & Film productions using the same characters.

Edit: how long before they make a Calvin Ellis Superman film?

Not long at all.


Superman Film Reboot Reportedly Built Around a Black Man of Steel
A new report states that the Superman to headline Warner Bros., Ta-Nehisi Coates and J.J. Abrams' reboot film will be a Black Man of Steel.

After it was revealed that Ta-Nehisi Coates and J.J. Abrams are teaming on a Superman movie reboot for Warner Bros., a new report suggests this Man of Steel project will star a Black leading male.

"Will audiences be introduced to a Black Superman? That is the intent and something that the studio has been trying to find a way in for months if not a year or two, according to sources," THR reporter Borys Kit tweeted following the news of Coates and Abrams' Superman.

https://www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-black-man-of-steel/

The White Wolf

A Black Superman would possibly be the boldest move in the genre yet.

Now that Cavill is getting closure with JL I'd actually like to see them go there. It would finally put to bed the painful arguments about what Superman "should" be on screen.

pixelburp

Why not, as said the tale of Superman is that of the ultimate immigrant story; so why not make Clark black to underline the point? It could work perfectly well.

The neckbeard rage will be epic though. I daresay even the Ben Shapiro's of the world will get involved too; they had a fit when "truth justice and the American way" got shelved back in the day. This will cause collective aneurysms

Lithium93_

Didn't Michael B. Jordan say or mention he wanted to be Superman? Or am I imagining things?

Agent Coulson

Obama is free and since Calvin Ellis is based on him why not cast the former President.

The White Wolf

pixelburp wrote: »

Why not, as said the tale of Superman is that of the ultimate immigrant story; so why not make Clark black to underline the point? It could work perfectly well.

The neckbeard rage will be epic though. I daresay even the Ben Shapiro's of the world will get involved too; they had a fit when "truth justice and the American way" got shelved back in the day. This will cause collective aneurysms

You can see it happening already.

My only problem with it is that leaking it to a reputable outlet could have been better timed given Cavill's now evident swansong is 3 weeks away.

But whatever, I'm exhausted by the Cavill argument at this point so I'm happy to hand over the reins to the crazys who are about to go bat****.

Penn

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Not long at all.


Superman Film Reboot Reportedly Built Around a Black Man of Steel
A new report states that the Superman to headline Warner Bros., Ta-Nehisi Coates and J.J. Abrams' reboot film will be a Black Man of Steel.



https://www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-black-man-of-steel/

Never heard of the Calvin Ellis Superman before, but damn I'd be all in for that. Something different at the very least.

Agent Coulson

Penn wrote: »

Never heard of the Calvin Ellis Superman before, but damn I'd be all in for that. Something different at the very least.

Created from a joke Obama made while running for President

"Contrary to the rumors you have heard, I was not born in a manger. I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father, Jor-el, to save the planet Earth,"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mccain-obama-crack-jokes-at-charity-event/

kerplun k

Michael B. Jordan Is going to be the next Superman isn’t he?

Mr Crispy

Time to give Nic Cage his shot.

Agent Coulson

Kirk Lazarus has been waiting all his life for this moment.

pixelburp

Wonder if it's a good thing or bad thing that just as a new Superman TV show starts, the scuttlebutt pivots to this new unknown movie adaptation. Could drive interest to it, could take some of the wind from its sails. Apparently initial reviews are positive and it's not as CW as the rest of the DC shows

The White Wolf

pixelburp wrote: »

Wonder if it's a good thing or bad thing that just as a new Superman TV show starts, the scuttlebutt pivots to this new unknown movie adaptation. Could drive interest to it, could take some of the wind from its sails. Apparently initial reviews are positive and it's not as CW as the rest of the DC shows

As someone pointed out to me earlier much to my amazement Ezra Miller was cast when the CW The Flash very early in its run and it didn't hinder it in any way.

Crazy to think after all this time Miller is getting his solo in......2022.

ThePott

Michael B Jordan was rumoured for this a long time ago, he also apparently pitched them a Black Superman idea not long ago around the time JJ appeared on the scene. Make no mistake this was a reactionary move, the rumour first started September of 2018 the same year as Black Panther. They looked at BP's box office and thought what if.

Some people are dumping on the idea and other people are calling it a brave move but to be entirely honest.
Warner Bros hasn't managed to nail a Superman film in 40 years. They have nothing left to lose at this stage. He's a character that they see as a disappointment regardless of how much they milk him. They're happy to put him on TV.
As much as I like Cavill in the role they clearly have no interest in using him or making a Man of Steel 2.

The White Wolf

A quote has been dug up already from the mooted writer of the reboot dismissing DC and the idea of Superman being the conservative ideal. Americans fans are about to lose their minds.

The White Wolf

The White Wolf wrote: »

A quote has been dug up already from the mooted writer of the reboot dismissing DC and the idea of Superman being the conservative ideal. Americans fans are about to lose their minds.

Coates isn't secretive about his views in general and I think a script would benefit from it tbh. Some fans might get annoyed but the most annoyed will be conservative commentators and the alt right kind of people tbh. But that's pretty much what happens when a traditionally male character is female too, they're just easily upset....

Pretty much every comic writer that reboots a character reinvents him for the age..

silverharp

The White Wolf wrote: »

A quote has been dug up already from the mooted writer of the reboot dismissing DC and the idea of Superman being the conservative ideal. Americans fans are about to lose their minds.

what does that mean? what about Superman is "conservative" , he is more a universal kind of character.

Lithium93_

silverharp wrote: »

what does that mean? what about Superman is "conservative" , he is more a universal kind of character.

I think what he's getting at is, the guy who's been suggested to write the Supes film, an old quote of his has been found saying that Clarke/Supes is what you've said he is, and that I think will irk some Conservative types who see Superman not as the how you or I would see him.

I am, of course open to correction, but that's the gist of what I got.

The White Wolf

silverharp wrote: »

what does that mean? what about Superman is "conservative" , he is more a universal kind of character.

Just the usual accusations against Superman of upholding American Ideals such as truth and justice.

But there is obviously more to Superman's character; he's an alien, immigrant, unwilling saviour etc....

You would like to think the writer would recognise that depth in Superman.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

what does that mean? what about Superman is "conservative" , he is more a universal kind of character.

He is often interpreted as conservative. But like, modern US conservatism doesn't exactly work for the character as is. Plus he's an illegal alien.

silverharp

Lithium93_ wrote: »

I think what he's getting at is, the guy who's been suggested to write the Supes film, an old quote of his has been found saying that Clarke/Supes is what you've said he is, and that I think will irk some Conservative types who see Superman not as the how you or I would see him.

I am, of course open to correction, but that's the gist of what I got.

fair enough, I just get the feeling that there is a bit of imagining views that people probably dont hold and then imagining they will be irritated by it.

There doesnt seem to be much demand for a reboot, i saw one random comment "yeah get back to me in 10 or 15 years" I dont get the feeling they got a big money spinner on their hands

ThePott

Coates has said he didn't read a lot of DC comics and was more of a Marvel reader, on the other hand he did show a lot of love for the animated DC cartoons of the 90's. This was in 2015. I'm sure there's plenty of directors who haven't read many comics tbh. If nothing else everyone has a perception of Superman through cultural osmosis. If they want a fresh take on Superman then I think they could do far worse personally.

As for the Conservative debate. It's certainly something that does exist. Last year Dean Cain said that nowadays he wouldn't be allowed to say Truth, Justice and the American Way. It's a shallow interpretation of the character by people that that see the character more as a symbol than as an actual character. On the surface he wears the American colours, is from the heartland of America and fights for good. Again that's the shallow interpretation that some on the right latch onto as an American ideal. It's a poor reading of the character but I have seen it said before, it's not something imagined certainly. Not looking for a political debate about Superman either :pac:

Need a Username

FunLover18 wrote: »

Because it's irrelevant!

Four hours is still four hours. The issue isn't whether I can watch it in one go or spread it out, the issue is whether I want to see this film so badly I'd be willing to spend four hours with it. I don't, so why would I even start it?

So why are you arguing about it ?

Need a Username

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Not long at all.


Superman Film Reboot Reportedly Built Around a Black Man of Steel
A new report states that the Superman to headline Warner Bros., Ta-Nehisi Coates and J.J. Abrams' reboot film will be a Black Man of Steel.



https://www.cbr.com/superman-reboot-black-man-of-steel/

So does this mean that the movie is actually going to be about Lois Lane?

Need a Username

pixelburp wrote: »

Wonder if it's a good thing or bad thing that just as a new Superman TV show starts, the scuttlebutt pivots to this new unknown movie adaptation. Could drive interest to it, could take some of the wind from its sails. Apparently initial reviews are positive and it's not as CW as the rest of the DC shows

Apparently the Arrow wasn’t allowed use Suicide Squad once that movie went into production.

Nothing like that happened on the Flash.

Need a Username

Penn wrote: »

Yeah, it's real

https://deadline.com/2021/02/superman-reboot-in-the-works-at-warner-bros-with-ta-nehisi-coates-writing-j-j-abrams-producing-1234701922/

Looking like Cavill won't be back and it's a full reboot.

The Robert Pattinson Batman movie is separate to
The other films. So is Joker.

This film might be the same so Cavill could still play the part.

However it is highly unlikely we are ever getting a Man of Steel 2 or another Justice League.

dublinman1990

In keeping up with DC's new cinema Multiverse strategy; this movie could have Henry Cavill kept on as the DCEU Superman i.e. Earth 1's Superman & this new rebooted version of Superman, the character of Calvin Ellis, would be kept for the Earth 2 universe.

pixelburp

silverharp wrote: »

what does that mean? what about Superman is "conservative" , he is more a universal kind of character.

For the longest time the character's catchphrase was literally: "truth, justice and the American way". Few heroes were ever that politicised, and iirc the phrase was only retired in the 90s - to the anger of American conservatives at the time. A Randian superman who grew up on a wholesome American farm. The idea of Supes being a conservative ideal is not that far fetched. Don't buy it myself, but I can see how one would get there.

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

For the longest time the character's catchphrase was literally: "truth, justice and the American way". Few heroes were ever that politicised, and iirc the phrase was only retired in the 90s - to the anger of American conservatives at the time. A Randian superman who grew up on a wholesome American farm. The idea of Supes being a conservative ideal is not that far fetched. Don't buy it myself, but I can see how one would get there.

not relevant to now is my point , you are pulling views from 30 or 40 years ago, and thinking some people got the same views now. Was any of this relevant to the last Superman film? show me the outrage that Superman didnt say "....the American way" a few years back?

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

For the longest time the character's catchphrase was literally: "truth, justice and the American way". Few heroes were ever that politicised, and iirc the phrase was only retired in the 90s - to the anger of American conservatives at the time. A Randian superman who grew up on a wholesome American farm. The idea of Supes being a conservative ideal is not that far fetched. Don't buy it myself, but I can see how one would get there.

I'd love to see a Conservative Superman movie. Where he doesn't stop a school shooting because the gunmen have 2nd amendment rights, and then gives an interview on Fox News saying it's too soon to discuss what he could have done differently, but he offers his thoughts and prayers to the victims.

Penn

Penn wrote: »

I'd love to see a Conservative Superman movie. Where he doesn't stop a school shooting because the gunmen have 2nd amendment rights, and then gives an interview on Fox News saying it's too soon to discuss what he could have done differently, but he offers his thoughts and prayers to the victims.

I do think you could get a great horror film out of him now that I think about it...

pixelburp

silverharp wrote: »

not relevant to now is my point , you are pulling views from 30 or 40 years ago, and thinking some people got the same views now. Was any of this relevant to the last Superman film? show me the outrage that Superman didnt say "....the American way" a few years back?

The character is near 100 years old and the Cavill superman is an outlier given he is, predominantly, a comicbook character not a movie one so that's what I presume Coates was taking as his intellectual jumping off point. Which seems likely given Coates has written for (Black Panther) comics. You can't really talk of what Superman is broadly without examining the comics, which inform 99% of the characters genetics, literal or metaphorical.

Cavill was a good fit for the role but his Superman was not that emblematic of the character as seen and loved from the pages. Synder's films have deliberately framed Supes powers as a sometimes terrible burden, mixed with heavy-handed, occasional Christ allegories - so yeah, conservatism ain't that far away in the films either.

For sure, if we go far enough back, then Superman was just a power fantasy for a couple of jewish writers, the character neither alien nor had the ability to fly, so it's all a bit of a moveable feast; but the template by which we know the character has a strong American conservative ethic.

CramCycle

dublinman1990 wrote: »

In keeping up with DC's new cinema Multiverse strategy; this movie could have Henry Cavill kept on as the DCEU Superman i.e. Earth 1's Superman & this new rebooted version of Superman, the character of Calvin Ellis, would be kept for the Earth 2 universe.

Makes the most sense and would mean they could do what they want if they have good stand alone movie ideas. I mean the movie Flash and CW one have crossed over so its fairly simple to do, although non-comic fans might be annoyed by the lack of consistency that DC provided compared to Marvel.

On the Superman commentary, I don't think they have had a bad superman actor over the last few years. I like Brandon Roth, he was basically Christoper Reeve and he done it well. Unfortunately the film went off a cliff with Luthors plans. Henry Cavill was also a good Superman, with some nice twists on the sacrifices he made just to fit in. Again it was the movie rather than the actor that done a bad job, that fight the seemed to go on for the length of a movie itself just was poor editing. Its just my opinion but neither actors were they issue, it was very much either the script, the director or the editors.

pixelburp

Every single superman actor has been let down by the script, I think that's both fair and undeniable in terms of a simple treatment of the character. Even the Reeve movies TBH; even in the 78 film there was a lot of childish guff, that only became more numerous as the sequels came along. His strike rate was 1 outta 4, which wasn't great really.

8 movies with Superman, and only 1 managed to JUST do the guy as he is. No twists, subversions, weird Deadbeat Dad angles, just a decent soul trying his best. Hell even with subversions we've had better via off brand adaptations like Homelander. Dunno why scriptwriters can't just do Superman. 1978 got closest, but IMO that was all Reeve.