Katie Taylor - "Where would I be without all the prayers"

freyners

im sure her faith gives her alot of comfort. the idea that people are taking the time out to pray for her is probably a great motivator too. Its like munster supports in o'connell in the 06 final. when you have that amount of people urging you on its allows you to take another step, throw another punch

Her faith is her faith, it shouldnt be an issue

philologos

freyners wrote: »

im sure her faith gives her alot of comfort. the idea that people are taking the time out to pray for her is probably a great motivator too. Its like munster supports in o'connell in the 06 final. when you have that amount of people urging you on its allows you to take another step, throw another punch

Her faith is her faith, it shouldnt be an issue

It's not an issue. It's a blessing to her clearly

What's with people automatically linking belief to issues cognitively!

homer911

Great to hear Sean Mullarkey and members of St. Mark's being interviewed on RTE Radio this evening

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Pentecostal-Churches-St-Marks-Church/186430638047784

Katie's favourite Bible Reading: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalms%2018&version=NIV

Quatermain

Heh. Funny enough, if you take a peek in the KJB, around 1st Corinthians Chapter 9, verse 26:
"Thus I do not run aimlessly, I do not fight as if I were shadow-boxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified."

Thought some might enjoy it.

All that aside, the heartiest of congratulations to Katie.

JoeGil

Not a bigfan of boxing and just saw some highlights of the fight a few minutes ago.

The striking aspect about Taylor is her commitment to religion. She is now a hero for a whole generation of young people who will look to her as a role model for their own lives.

This will be much to the dislike of the atheist community as it will represent a major setback to what they are trying to achieve.

Expect a major backlash and lots of begrudging comments.

Quatermain

JoeGil wrote: »

Not a bigfan of boxing and just saw some highlights of the fight a few minutes ago.

The striking aspect about Taylor is her commitment to religion. She is now a hero for a whole generation of young people who will look to her as a role model for their own lives.

This will be much to the dislike of the atheist community as it will represent a major setback to what they are trying to achieve.

Expect a major backlash and lots of begrudging comments.

She won a gold medal in fine circumstances. From where I'm sitting, people are delighted regardless of beliefs. What's to begrudge?

philologos

vard wrote: »

I once prayed to God asking that my then 20 year old cousin be spared from death. Some Help that was; I think the Olympics might have been on then too, so I guess he was busy.

God doesn't promise that good things will happen to people all the time. 100% of people die, it's just a question of when. God isn't a genie that we wish to. He's sovereign and He has intentions for us, some of which we can only scrape the surface of.

Bad things happen to good people. This isn't necessarily purposeless. I think you should start a new thread about why bad things happen to good people instead of clogging up this one.

People are not saying that God favours one athlete over another. That's been explained many times on this thread, and on others already.

Benny_Cake

Quatermain wrote: »

She won a gold medal in fine circumstances. From where I'm sitting, people are delighted regardless of beliefs. What's to begrudge?

Exactly, when she speaks about her faith she talks about how it impacts her own life. I've never noticed her being preachy or judgemental towards others. It's a good news story for everyone.

JoeGil

Quatermain wrote: »

She won a gold medal in fine circumstances. From where I'm sitting, people are delighted regardless of beliefs. What's to begrudge?

Nobody will begrudge her the medal but some will begrudge her her religious beliefs and the fact that she attributes her victory in part to these beliefs.

Sonics2k

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Exactly, when she speaks about her faith she talks about how it impacts her own life. I've never noticed her being preachy or judgemental towards others. It's a good news story for everyone.

It was a little bit preachy :P

With that said, amazing boxer and well deserving of the Gold medal.

Quatermain

JoeGil wrote: »

Nobody will begrudge her the medal but some will begrudge her her religious beliefs and the fact that she attributes her victory in part to these beliefs.

I shouldn't think it would make the slightest bit of difference to a lot of people. A highly Christian person coming from Ireland is not a massive surprise. Who honestly cares about a few raised eyebrows?

I say this as someone who is not himself religious, by the by.

Will I Amnt

JoeGil wrote: »

Not a bigfan of boxing and just saw some highlights of the fight a few minutes ago.

The striking aspect about Taylor is her commitment to religion. She is now a hero for a whole generation of young people who will look to her as a role model for their own lives.

This will be much to the dislike of the atheist community as it will represent a major setback to what they are trying to achieve.

Expect a major backlash and lots of begrudging comments.

The striking aspect to people like yourself,with a perceived persecution complex(going on your last few sentences)might be about religion.
To most people it will be her skills and abilities.
Kids,and in particular girls will be more likely to be encouraged to take up boxing or other sports rather than religion.

Jellicoe

Sonics2k wrote: »

It was a little bit preachy

No it wasn't. Not in the slightest. She talked about her beliefs, not what others should believe / not believe

Jellicoe

cambo2008 wrote: »

The striking aspect to people like yourself,with a perceived persecution complex(going on your last few sentences)might be about religion.

He never mentioned persecution, yet interestingly you knee jerked and pretended what he said.
Katy thanked God on TV, get over it.

JoeGil

cambo2008 wrote: »

The striking aspect to people like yourself,with a perceived persecution complex(going on your last few sentences)might be about religion.
To most people it will be her skills and abilities.
Kids,and in particular girls will be more likely to be encouraged to take up boxing or other sports rather than religion.

A lot of broad generalisations there.
The point is that it's what Taylor thinks and not what anybody else thinks - she won the medal. Expect to see some vigious comment undermining what she believes and instead portraying what she should believe.

philologos

Sonics2k wrote: »

It was a little bit preachy :P

With that said, amazing boxer and well deserving of the Gold medal.

I know it's preachy when people have a faith that really matters in their life. :pac:
We should all pretend that our faith is "private" and that it has no real significance?


I hope it'll make people think that Christianity is a force for good in peoples lives, and that it is a truth that changes lives:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics/player/332892/?autoplay=1

I'm delighted that Katie thinks that it is better to boast of the Gospel and of Jesus than it is to boast of personal gains.

Quatermain

JoeGil wrote: »

A lot of broad generalisations there.
The point is that it's what Taylor thinks and not what anybody else thinks - she won the medal. Expect to see some vigious comment undermining what she believes and instead portraying what she should believe.

Why?

She's going to return to a hero's welcome, which is all that matters. Her religion is her own business entirely. I'm afraid I completely fail to see why absolutely anyone would make a big issue about it, given the circumstances.

JoeGil

Quatermain wrote: »

Why?

She's going to return to a hero's welcome, which is all that matters. Her religion is her own business entirely. I'm afraid I completely fail to see why absolutely anyone would make a big issue about it, given the circumstances.

Hopefully you are right.
Her beliefs and religion are as you point out entirely her own business so you would hope that everybody will respect this privacy and refrain from interference.

Will I Amnt

Jellicoe wrote: »

He never mentioned persecution, yet interestingly you knee jerked and pretended what he said.
Katy thanked God on TV, get over it.

I couldn't care less if she thanked Thor.
Also I never said he mentioned persecution,if you would bother reading my post properly,it is what he comes across as,to me anyway,with this sort of stuff......

This will be much to the dislike of the atheist community as it will represent a major setback to what they are trying to achieve.

Expect a major backlash and lots of begrudging comments.

Seems to be happier she might have annoyed some atheists than happy for her achievement.

philologos

cambo2008 wrote: »

I couldn't care less if she thanked Thor.
Also I never said he mentioned persecution,if you would bother reading my post properly,it is what he comes across as,to me anyway,with this sort of stuff......

It doesn't matter what you care about. The reason why Katie mentions her faith is because it clearly motivates her in the sport irrespective of what people might argue.

cambo2008 wrote: »

Seems to be happier she might have annoyed some atheists than happy for her achievement.

? - She's a Christian. Why should she hide that?

Silvio.Dante

No doubt the chattering D4 classes will snigger but Katie's the one with the medal...:D

Benny_Cake

Sonics2k wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Exactly, when she speaks about her faith she talks about how it impacts her own life. I've never noticed her being preachy or judgemental towards others. It's a good news story for everyone.

It was a little bit preachy :P

With that said, amazing boxer and well deserving of the Gold medal.

"Where would I be without God" - emphasis on the "I" ! She is a little more open about her beliefs than most people are in this country so it sounds a little arresting to Irish ears. In America it has become so common to do that it often seems insincere. In any case, a great day, two more boxing matches up tomorrow and I never booked the day off...

Will I Amnt

philologos wrote: »

? - She's a Christian. Why should she hide that?

No argument from me there,where are you getting that from???
I was referring to the poster seeming more happy she annoyed atheists than her achievement.

Quatermain

Benny_Cake wrote: »

"Where would I be without God" - emphasis on the "I" ! She is a little more open about her beliefs than most people are in this country so it sounds a little arresting to Irish ears. In America it has become so common to do that it often seems insincere. In any case, a great day, two more boxing matches up tomorrow and I never booked the day off...

I agree entirely, but I must profess to being rather taken aback by attitudes that Katie's medal is counted as a "victory against atheism" by people who have never spoken to Miss Taylor, do not know her personally, and are not counted among her friends. The only thing in common is a religion.

Katie's beliefs are her own. As has been established, she is perfectly free to do with them as she pleases, especially proclaim them on live television. This should not be seized upon either as a means for gloating, or for despairing that some out there will attempt to undermine her achievements by taking pot-shots at her belief system. There are enough divisions between people without this sort of nonsense going on.

philologos

Quatermain wrote: »

Katie's beliefs are her own. As has been established, she is perfectly free to do with them as she pleases, especially proclaim them on live television. This should not be seized upon either as a means for gloating, or for despairing that some out there will attempt to undermine her achievements by taking pot-shots at her belief system. There are enough divisions between people without this sort of nonsense going on.

I agree that they shouldn't be a means for gloating at atheists. But, I think it's absolutely praiseworthy that Katie is not ashamed of her faith in Jesus and will speak about it at any given opportunity.

Benny_Cake

Quatermain wrote: »

I agree entirely, but I must profess to being rather taken aback by attitudes that Katie's medal is counted as a "victory against atheism" by people who have never spoken to Miss Taylor, do not know her personally, and are not counted among her friends. The only thing in common is a religion.

Katie's beliefs are her own. As has been established, she is perfectly free to do with them as she pleases, especially proclaim them on live television. This should not be seized upon either as a means for gloating, or for despairing that some out there will attempt to undermine her achievements by taking pot-shots at her belief system. There are enough divisions between people without this sort of nonsense going on.

I agree with this 100%,I find that attitude disgusting.

Zombrex

Seaneh wrote: »

There is no proof, what so ever, that head injuries cause Parkinson's Disease.
It's an idiopathic disease, cause by spontaneous mutation of cells, most of which have no known cause with a small amount of cases being because of mutations to specific genes.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Yeah, that's it. The active goal of boxing is to give your opponent a degenerative disease of the nervous system. Preferably by the 3rd round.

Muhammad Ali doesn't have Parkinson's disease, he suffers from Parkinson's syndrome (aka Parkinsonism) which his doctors attribute to injury to the head. The active goal of boxing is to hit your opponent in the head (which is why they wear gloves, as has been pointed out).

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-07-16/sports/sp-4337_1_muhammad-ali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsonism

JimiTime

philologos wrote: »

I agree that they shouldn't be a means for gloating at atheists. But, I think it's absolutely praiseworthy that Katie is not ashamed of her faith in Jesus and will speak about it at any given opportunity.

The thing about such things, and I'm not disagreeing with you, is that once you declare your faith so publicly etc, then you become a representative of that faith. Think of someone like Kaka for instance, 'I belong to Jesus', he had famously on his shirt etc. Then he goes out and dives etc. Its not exactly representing Christ is it? It in fact brings reproach on him. Same with when Beyonce or somesuch thanks God and declares 'Not going to compromise my Christianity', just before she sings about being bootylicious while Gyrating in her bra and knickers. Not exactly the beacon for Christ?

'If you are lukewarm, I will spit you out!'
Seems to me, that an honest atheist will be shown more mercy than those trying to straddle the world and Christ.

Sarky

JimiTime wrote: »

Then he goes out and dives etc. Its not exactly representing Christ is it? It in fact brings reproach on him.

Didn't Jesus allegedly take a dive for humanity? Everyone was counting on him being the next king of Israel, and then he turns around and pulls the old crucifixion stunt...

the_djoker

JoeGil wrote: »

Not a bigfan of boxing and just saw some highlights of the fight a few minutes ago.

The striking aspect about Taylor is her commitment to religion. She is now a hero for a whole generation of young people who will look to her as a role model for their own lives.

This will be much to the dislike of the atheist community as it will represent a major setback to what they are trying to achieve.

Expect a major backlash and lots of begrudging comments.

yeah good point, cos it must be God that made her win ....

Not her hard work, her skill, her hours in the gym, not that at all.

Cos this is 100% proof it was God ....

Michael Chang always believed it was God's will that he win Grand Slams --- he won 1.

Rafa Nadal is an athiest - he's won 11 grand slams ... and counting ...


Take that example and athiesm wins.

Chazz Michael Michaels

I'm agnostic, but I believe that faith in anything can help foster inner strength, even in Katie. Hence, even if there is no God, her belief in it probably gives her some resolve.

the_djoker

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

I'm agnostic, but I believe that faith in anything can help foster inner strength, even in Katie. Hence, even if there is no God, her belief in it probably gives her some resolve.

Yes a placebo effect.

Chazz Michael Michaels

the_djoker wrote: »

Yes a placebo effect.

Yeah, possibly, so what's the problem? If she is happy and it helped her through some tough periods?

the_djoker

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Yeah, possibly, so what's the problem? If she is happy and it helped her through some tough periods?

Maybe I'm overly sensitive but I think saying the God has SINGLED her out and awarded her over everyone else is pretty arrogant and selfish, she should keep her bs to herself.

Jelly2

Jellicoe wrote: »

And how do you presume to know what she prays for ? It could be a multitude of things such as 'help me perform to the best of my ability', 'thank God for the special opportunity of being here'. I doubt anyone as grounded and humble as Katy prays to be the winner, as unbeknown to her, the opponent could be far more deserving of a win than her.

In fact, I read an interview with her and her mother recently in the hairdressers (maybe Stellar magazine), and that is precisely what they said. They also said that they pray that God will give them the strength to accept that whatever happens is his will. Hardly praying for a win, just for the strength to deal with whatever happens.

Zombrex

the_djoker wrote: »

Maybe I'm overly sensitive but I think saying the God has SINGLED her out and awarded her over everyone else is pretty arrogant and selfish, she should keep her bs to herself.

Well in fairness I'm not sure that is the suggestion. The idea is that God will help you achieve your goals no matter what they are, so if you pray for strength to get through a difficult time at work, or pray for strength to help you finish building your house, or pray to God to help you get over an illness etc faith in God will provide you inner strength to over come your own weaknesses and doubt

It does get a bit hairy when we talk about sport where one person beats another person, even if they both prayed to God. But again I don't think the suggestion is that God picked Katie Taylor to win the gold, more than he helped her find the inner strength to keep reaching for her goals, which just happened to be a gold medal.

(I'm an atheist by the way, I think the idea God does anything is nonsense, that what people do is their own achievements even if they find it easier to motivate themselves through the idea of faith)

Chazz Michael Michaels

the_djoker wrote: »

Maybe I'm overly sensitive but I think saying the God has SINGLED her out and awarded her over everyone else is pretty arrogant and selfish, she should keep her bs to herself.

I don't think it comes to that really, you would have to ask her, but I'd imagine it's more of a comfort when things are tough rather than being specially selected. For example, Katie is training but feels absolutely shattered, she needs to push on and she feels/imagines Jesus is there with her, like a shoulder to lean on as opposed to a hand pushing her.

Run_to_da_hills

Arawn wrote: »

also isn't tattoos a no no in the bible?

Yes, but there are many including myself that have them before becoming believers.

PDN

the_djoker wrote: »

Maybe I'm overly sensitive but I think saying the God has SINGLED her out and awarded her over everyone else is pretty arrogant and selfish, she should keep her bs to herself.

No 'maybe' about it.

Actor

The atheists who troll this forum completely misunderstand the nature of prayer - it gives people hope, courage and fortitude. Without prayer, I very much doubt Katie could have achieved what she did yesterday.

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

The atheists who troll this forum completely misunderstand the nature of prayer - it gives people hope, courage and fortitude. Without prayer, I very much doubt Katie could have achieved what she did yesterday.

That's a completely baseless assertion. Who knows how things would have turned out, who knows what other mechanisms she might have found to spur her on? There are enough athletes who achieve success without god - to suggest she would be incapable of doing so is somewhat insulting to the lady in question.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Actor wrote: »

Without prayer, I very much doubt Katie could have achieved what she did yesterday.

Because she depends on it. You must see the point of people pointing out atheist sportsmen such as Nadal who do not require prayer to win.

That's the point here. Whatever works for the individual. For Katie, God is a very important part of her training. For Nadal, it isn't.

Actor

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Because she depends on it. You must see the point of people pointing out atheist sportsmen such as Nadal who do not require prayer to win.

That's the point here. Whatever works for the individual. For Katie, God is a very important part of her training. For Nadal, it isn't.

Exactly. Without the power of prayer; she wouldn't have been standing on that podium yesterday. Katie is truly blessed.

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

That's a completely baseless assertion. Who knows how things would have turned out, who knows what other mechanisms she might have found to spur her on? There are enough athletes who achieve success without god - to suggest she would be incapable of doing so is somewhat insulting to the lady in question.

Prayer is one of this world's great mysteries and is not subject to atheistic/scientific understanding.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Actor wrote: »

Exactly. Without the power of prayer; she wouldn't have been standing on that podium yesterday. Katie is truly blessed.

Ok, keeping that in mind, what about Nadal? How did he do it?

Actor

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Ok, keeping that in mind, what about Nadal? How did he do it?

Nadal's gifts still come from God the maker of all men; whether you or Nadal like it or not.

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

Prayer is one of this world's great mysteries and not subject to atheist/scientific understanding.

Actually, the "power" of prayer HAS been studied scientifically - it's one of the claims of religion that can very easily be tested.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Actor wrote: »

Nadal's gifts still come from God the maker of all men; whether you or Nadal like it or not.

Ok, so prayer doesn't necessarily bestow any specific gifts, hence the reason why atheist and believers have (proportionally) equal success in sport.

Actor

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Ok, so prayer doesn't necessarily bestow any specific gifts, hence the reason why atheist and believers have (proportionally) equal success in sport.

Obviously you have never considered how much more successful these athletes would be if they took a leaf out of Katie Taylor's book.

Quatermain

Actor wrote: »

Obviously you have never considered how much more successful these athletes would be if they took a leaf out of Katie Taylor's book.

So all athletes should pray because it will help them win, not because it has any real meaning to their beliefs?

You're not doing Katie an awful lot of justice.