value of bucket reared calves off milk

locky76

There's a good few lads in west limerick trying to offload 3 to 4 month old calves which they bought ot drink extra milk and eat extra grass during the summer and silage next winter.
However with the way the summer has gone etc. etc.
What sort of money is a 3 month old AA or hereford heifer calf worth if they got a reasonable do?

bob charles

€350 - same as they were worth if they were sold 2 months ago

Bodacious

bob charles wrote: »

€350 - same as they were worth if they were sold 2 months ago

hi Bob, would they not be good buying at that kind of money, especially heifers, nice black white heads.. people near me always looking for REPS cattle and/or good makings of a cow....pick up 10 of them at small money and keep them ticking over and went burst of grass next April.. offload?!!!

Farmer Pudsey

Young cattle will be very tricky this year, a farmer commented after the fancy prices in the spring that a lot of calves bought would not make the money that was paid for them.

There is a good chance with the way the fodder situtation and the price of ration will be that the same calves will only be worth that in October/November as well.

I see where fresians bulls are around 100 with there weight at present.

locky76

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Young cattle will be very tricky this year, a farmer commented after the fancy prices in the spring that a lot of calves bought would not make the money that was paid for them.

There is a good chance with the way the fodder situtation and the price of ration will be that the same calves will only be worth that in October/November as well.

I see where fresians bulls are around 100 with there weight at present.

Yeah,

i agree with all that, however, if you bought now you'd have a chance to get them right and also to put on some handy weight before the winter comes.
I am looking to buy 10 of them and winter them outside in an 8 acre field.

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

Yeah,

i agree with all that, however, if you bought now you'd have a chance to get them right and also to put on some handy weight before the winter comes.
I am looking to buy 10 of them and winter them outside in an 8 acre field.

yip good thinking, the downside to that price is small in my opinion and something I wouldn't be worried about it. Even good animals I have that I bought between 3 and 6 weeks ago will be alright. Its buying bad animals when the price is high it will come back to haunt you. had bulls in yesterday that cost €250 as month old calves last year to drink a few milky cows they are worth €1250 today at least and they havnt cost much to keep if anything they weren't looked after as they should have been, wintered outside and these were a crazy price when they were bought.

We were discussing that down through the years there have being many instances when cattle kept for over a year were sold for less than they cost. My dad was on about the great depression:D when animals were kept for two year and given away for a finish up. Whats it the say about history?

bbam

These are a small margin business at the best of times. Getting well reared animals that have good shape at €350 seems a good price.
Sooner the better to avail of cheap grass (if you have grass). I always think that the winter period is breakeven for them so keeping it short is the key.

Grecco

I think a lot of lads will get stung badly this year with the price the calves were last spring. i`d be thinking that they will leave the calves with the dairymen in future

reilig

Grecco wrote: »

I think a lot of lads will get stung badly this year with the price the calves were last spring. i`d be thinking that they will leave the calves with the dairymen in future

If the Lybian market gets up and running properly in the coming weeks then they will take a lot of these lesser quality animals from the beef processors and hopefully set a base price for better quality animals.

lakill Farm

on the price front, what price would AAX heifers (15 months) 350kg-400kg be worth out of the yard weighted?

bbam

Grecco wrote: »

I think a lot of lads will get stung badly this year with the price the calves were last spring. i`d be thinking that they will leave the calves with the dairymen in future

Sometimes it's self inflicted.
I stood in Ballybay one Saturday in the spring and saw lads desperate to buy anything that was still moving. Poor calves were huge money and good calves were untouchable. The excess milk was seen to be "free" so it was ok to spend big on the calves.

ootbitb

bob charles wrote: »

yip good thinking, the downside to that price is small in my opinion and something I wouldn't be worried about it. Even good animals I have that I bought between 3 and 6 weeks ago will be alright. Its buying bad animals when the price is high it will come back to haunt you. had bulls in yesterday that cost €250 as month old calves last year to drink a few milky cows they are worth €1250 today at least and they havnt cost much to keep if anything they weren't looked after as they should have been, wintered outside and these were a crazy price when they were bought.

We were discussing that down through the years there have being many instances when cattle kept for over a year were sold for less than they cost. My dad was on about the great depression:D when animals were kept for two year and given away for a finish up. Whats it the say about history?

What sort of weight are these bulls Bob?


I was at a few marts this week and friesian x continentals were making e2 per kilo at best.

HillFarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

on the price front, what price would AAX heifers (15 months) 350kg-400kg be worth out of the yard weighted?

If they are nice british friesan type, about 2 euro a kg i'd say. so 700 - 800 each.

whelan1

plan to bring 2 br/fr bull calves to ardee on tuesday , they are march and april born, where crap calves then but have done well , will let ye know how i get on

bob charles

ootbitb wrote: »

What sort of weight are these bulls Bob?


I was at a few marts this week and friesian x continentals were making e2 per kilo at best.

which animals?

I had a serious E grade store animal last week for €2.05 a kilo, an exception but all animals over the last two weeks are trading under €2 a kilo. I think the auctioneers keeping the trade up at artificial levels during the first 3 weeks of July has damaged the trade even more, as buyers are few are far between

PatQfarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

on the price front, what price would AAX heifers (15 months) 350kg-400kg be worth out of the yard weighted?

I have them at 12-14 months, 350-400kg and a visit to couple of marts last week convinced me that €2/kg is not achievable atm.
Probably €1.60-1.80/kg...and falling!
Looks like I'll be wintering most of mine as cheap as possible and trying to finish off early grass:(

PatQfarmer

That said, if AA or HEX cross heifers can be bought at €350 this backend, I'd try to find space for them somewhere! No matter what, they'd look good value and it'd certainly be cheaper than bucket-rearing calves!

HillFarmer

Cheap way to get in to suckling I suppose.

But would angus cross or hereford cross make good Suckler cows, assuming they are off British friean dams?

I you cross a hereford cross with say a Lim, what grade would the calf be. o?

dealerman

dont think them calves out of west limerick are cheap with the price of weanlings out of sucklers cows at the moment alot better quality for a small bit more money and no screws thrown in:D;)

bbam

dealerman wrote: »

dont think them calves out of west limerick are cheap with the price of weanlings out of sucklers cows at the moment alot better quality for a small bit more money and no screws thrown in:D;)

A small bit more?
You'll be doing well to get suckler reared weanlings for a little more than €350.

dealerman

a friend buy a couple of reared sucklers bull calves at the mart between 400 and 500 alot better stuff and they were bulls

bob charles

bbam wrote: »

A small bit more?
You'll be doing well to get suckler reared weanlings for a little more than €350.

you wanna bet at the moment, its carnage

ellewood

Bodacious wrote: »

hi Bob, would they not be good buying at that kind of money, especially heifers, nice black white heads.. people near me always looking for REPS cattle and/or good makings of a cow....pick up 10 of them at small money and keep them ticking over and went burst of grass next April.. offload?!!!

what sort of costs would you be talking of to keep them over the winter till next march or april if you had them out wintered at a low stocking rate?

bbam

bob charles wrote: »

you wanna bet at the moment, its carnage

Really?
Didn't think it was that bad. I'll be watching tight so, chequebook at the ready.

locky76

ellewood wrote: »

what sort of costs would you be talking of to keep them over the winter till next march or april if you had them out wintered at a low stocking rate?

I was looking at 3 small square bales per day for 12 of them for 150 days, i've the hay myself, I'll also give them 2kgs per head for 100 of the days , mid November to end of February, so thats 2.4 tonnes meal @ €300 per tonne= €720 + 450 bales @ €3 per bale= €1,350.
Total price for wintering 12x250kgs heifers=€2,070 or ~€160 apiece.
Any comments (good or bad) on these back of a fag box calculations are appreciated;)

Grecco

bob charles wrote: »

you wanna bet at the moment, its carnage

I think you made that up, here are the prices from Ennis mart last week

Weanling Bulls: €400 to €800 over their weight.
Char 295kgs €1000; Lim 280kgs €835; Lim 360kgs €1000; Lim 490kgs €1300; 2 Char 425kgs €1160; B.Blue 250kgs €785.

Weanling Heifers: €350 to €640 over their weight.
BBX 350kgs €905; Char 270kgs €755; 2 Lim 357kgs €1000; Lim 345kgs €885; Char 405kgs €1000; 2 Char 360kgs €955.

Farmer Pudsey

locky76 wrote: »

I was looking at 3 small square bales per day for 12 of them for 150 days, i've the hay myself, I'll also give them 2kgs per head for 100 of the days , mid November to end of February, so thats 2.4 tonnes meal @ €300 per tonne= €720 + 450 bales @ €3 per bale= €1,350.
Total price for wintering 12x250kgs heifers=€2,070 or ~€160 apiece.
Any comments (good or bad) on these back of a fag box calculations are appreciated;)

If you are buying the ration in bags it will cost you more than 300/ton for anything decent over the winter, why not splash out and give a bag a day ( as you will) so it is 2.5/ ton. With the way the market is small square bales of hay could be 4 euro's each to sell and the ration i think will cost around 350/ton when you take them off the ration you will need to increase the hay by a bale or two and 2 kgs might ne a bit tight. You will need to dose them 2-3 times if they are outside. So 2000/hay ration [EMAIL="2.5@350"]2.5@350[/EMAIL]= 825 and 75 for dosing so 241 euro/animal. On the other hand hay may not make that.

All the lads complaining about the price of good bale silage @ 20 euro's eat your heart out. If you cut it early june 70++dmd @ 30DM 700kg bale. A bale would keep 12 going for 3 days ( I am assuming that they wii be 275 @ start and 325 @ finish of 110 day winter). No meal 55 cent/ day and 2 cent for minerals in shed 2 euro/ per head to dose ( wish I had more of it:rolleyes:)

bob charles

Grecco wrote: »

I think you made that up, here are the prices from Ennis mart last week

Weanling Bulls: €400 to €800 over their weight.
Char 295kgs €1000; Lim 280kgs €835; Lim 360kgs €1000; Lim 490kgs €1300; 2 Char 425kgs €1160; B.Blue 250kgs €785.

Weanling Heifers: €350 to €640 over their weight.
BBX 350kgs €905; Char 270kgs €755; 2 Lim 357kgs €1000; Lim 345kgs €885; Char 405kgs €1000; 2 Char 360kgs €955.

not making it up, just what I have seen for nice small animals this week in the 3 marts I have being at so far, very plain big animals selling for just over €1.50kilo, herd of nice dairy cows sold last monday at around 50% of what they were worth in February. One thing I will say if you are selling animal give the IFJ a ring and ask them what mart they are heading to next as the prices are crazy. Best animal I bought this year cost €2.05kilo a super E grade store that needs 2 - 3 months to put cover on him. Obviously not the shipping weanlings but I know little about there prices as that is not my business, but plenty of nice heifers/bullocks 300-375kilos to be bought around the €600 mark

bob charles

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

All the lads complaining about the price of good bale silage @ 20 euro's eat your heart out. If you cut it early june 70++dmd @ 30DM 700kg bale. A bale would keep 12 going for 3 days ( I am assuming that they wii be 275 @ start and 325 @ finish of 110 day winter). No meal 55 cent/ day and 2 cent for minerals in shed 2 euro/ per head to dose ( wish I had more of it:rolleyes:)

pity I have well over 50% of my 75DMD silage eaten. a well better to have it eaten now and making a quid than making nothing out of it feeding it during the winter

Galroy_Tech

Grecco wrote: »

Weanling Bulls: €400 to €800 over their weight.

Absolute newbie to farming. Computers is my thing. But I'm helping out my Dad who just inherited a nice farm in Galway.

Anyway .. I'll have loads of questions over the next few weeks, but can I begin with what does "over their weight" mean?

If we buy in some cattle and get them to eat the grass during the summer.
Let say 20 heads of 12 month old cattle.
Buy in May and sell in October.
From my research online, I recon they should gain about 50 kg over 6 months just by eating the grass alone.
If cattle prices are about €4/kg would that mean we would make €4,000 on the cattle??

And if the land if average quality and the weather is also average, then how many acres of average grass should we set aside for the 20 cattle?

My final question is .... where the hell can I find out more information on how to manage a farm? Teagas is a closed shop to newbies because they told me they are only dealing with "exsisting" farmers as they don't have the staff to deal with newbies due to the governments enbargo on recruitment.

ootbitb

First piece of advice is buy a pair of wellies:D

Second find an elderly neighbour retired from farming to give you the local rundown regarding merchants and contractors, vets, etc. and to teach you how to recognise a sick animal.


"over their weight" is the price obtained, if they make 300 over their weight and they were 400kgs then e700 was the price.

between May and October on good grass alone hope for about 1.4 kg per DAY liveweight gain.

40 weanlings (6 MONTHS)over the winter will consume about a bale per day along with some meal.

Silage yield per acre varies considerably but 20 bales per acre with 3-4 bags fertilizer (at about e20 per bag) should be obtainable.

Mart prices will vary with supply and demand but e2 per kg liveweight is what the average animal seems to be making now.

Best of luck...and you'll need to get to bed earlier:D

Farmer Pudsey

Galroy_Tech wrote: »

Anyway .. I'll have loads of questions over the next few weeks, but can I begin with what does "over their weight" mean?

If we buy in some cattle and get them to eat the grass during the summer.
Let say 20 heads of 12 month old cattle.
Buy in May and sell in October.
From my research online, I recon they should gain about 50 kg over 6 months just by eating the grass alone.
If cattle prices are about €4/kg would that mean we would make €4,000 on the cattle??

And if the land if average quality and the weather is also average, then how many acres of average grass should we set aside for the 20 cattle?

My final question is .... where the hell can I find out more information on how to manage a farm? Teagas is a closed shop to newbies because they told me they are only dealing with "exsisting" farmers as they don't have the staff to deal with newbies due to the governments enbargo on recruitment.

over the weight or with the weight is an expression of when you but cattle what they cost with the weight. that is if a 400kg bullock cost 750 euro's he made 350 with the weight.however prices will differ between breeds and weights a charly will make more than a whitehead and a 250kg weanling (animal in there first year) will make less than a year and a half store ( an animal that will need to be overwintered a second year) with there weight..

If you are buying cattle for summer grazing you would need to buy earlier than May as you will be swimming in grass, on good land not overstocked cattle should do around 200kg's during the summer. 4 euro's is around the dead weight price (the price cattle make when killed) which depending on breed and finish can vary from 45% to 55% of liveweight. And no you will not be paid the same for cattle in october/nov as march/april as if farmers are buying cattle that they have to overwinter they wil lpay less/kg for them compared to the spring when they will be summer grazing on cheap grass.

You were talking about 12 month old cattle you could more than likly stock at one per acre. I presume that your father was born on a farm if not what you are going doing is tricky. You will need a lot of luck as it will be similar to not knowin about a car and going repairing a head gasket.

On information you could try one of the privte farm consultants or the other thing is some farmer near the farm may be willing to give advice and help if you make an arrangement with him however you would need luck with him as well as you can find some right plonkers.

However if you are bright and have commonsence, and remember bought sence is better than taught sence ie you will learn from your mistakes and if you do not you never will.

Galroy_Tech

Thanks for the replies guys.

Plenty to think about there.

whelan1

brought 2 fr bulls today to ardee.... got €150 each was a real struggle, said i was going to bring them home:) was only getting €120 but stood my ground, these guys where april born... was some really crap calves there, angus bull €80:eek: really seemed to be people offloading the last of their calves, was around 35 calves in the sale

HillFarmer

What were Hereford / angus calves making?

ellewood

whelan1 wrote: »

brought 2 fr bulls today to ardee.... got €150 each was a real struggle, said i was going to bring them home:) was only getting €120 but stood my ground, these guys where april born... was some really crap calves there, angus bull €80:eek: really seemed to be people offloading the last of their calves, was around 35 calves in the sale

thanks for that

were those weaned and eating meal and roughly what weight were they

there are some on done deal at 200kgs for 300 euro so 1.50 a kg

saw plenty of fresian, aa and white head cattle sell last fri in mart for 1.50to 1.65 a kg as well
so maybe looks like were back to 1.50/kg for plainer cattle and with the weather today it wont help either

on a side note i have a few ch and lim dry cows that are fit to kill have been trying to get them kill the last 10 days and factories keep saying there full and cant fit them in abp said it will be well into next week but got them into dawn for tomorrow but lad in dawn said they will be back to 2.80/kg next few weeks !!!!!

whelan1

saw that ad on dd , wishful thinking on the sellers part , from what i saw yesterday.... my 2 calves would have been a good buy at €150....

reilig

I have 3 calves to sell at the weekend. 2 are ch heifers off ch cows. 1 is a bb bull off a black lim cow. All are 6 to 8 weeks old. Decided to cull the cows now instead of carrying them when i am short of grass. They would make ideal replacements for calves that were lost and would be strong suckers. Anyone got an idea of what they would be worth?

PatQfarmer

reilig wrote: »

I have 3 calves to sell at the weekend. 2 are ch heifers off ch cows. 1 is a bb bull off a black lim cow. All are 6 to 8 weeks old. Decided to cull the cows now instead of carrying them when i am short of grass. They would make ideal replacements for calves that were lost and would be strong suckers. Anyone got an idea of what they would be worth?

No idea, but best of luck:)

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

I have 3 calves to sell at the weekend. 2 are ch heifers off ch cows. 1 is a bb bull off a black lim cow. All are 6 to 8 weeks old. Decided to cull the cows now instead of carrying them when i am short of grass. They would make ideal replacements for calves that were lost and would be strong suckers. Anyone got an idea of what they would be worth?

You wouldn't sell the cows with the calves at foot?

2 birds 1 stone

reilig

Tipp Man wrote: »

You wouldn't sell the cows with the calves at foot?

2 birds 1 stone

No, the cows are culls. Quarter's missing, fat cows, not much milk. Have a buyer for the cows who is paying a good price. Trips to marts in recent weeks did not see good prices for these type of cows with calves at foot. I think they will make more if I split them up.

ciaran kinvara2012

whelan1 wrote: »

saw that ad on dd , wishful thinking on the sellers part , from what i saw yesterday.... my 2 calves would have been a good buy at €150....

the prices are well back for fresian calves alright, sold two in ennis last week and just got 210 euros for both of them, one of them was a bit of a runt alright got 65 for him and the other lad 155 for the other but he was just under the month old. about two months ago in athenry sold a bull calf for 195 and he wasnt half as strong as the lad in ennis.

I have a holstein bull calf i kept for the craic, born in early april, wonder what id get?? would i be as well off keep him over the winter and see what id get next spring or just offload him now??

whelan1

ciaran kinvara2012 wrote: »

the prices are well back for fresian calves alright, sold two in ennis last week and just got 210 euros for both of them, one of them was a bit of a runt alright got 65 for him and the other lad 155 for the other but he was just under the month old. about two months ago in athenry sold a bull calf for 195 and he wasnt half as strong as the lad in ennis.

I have a holstein bull calf i kept for the craic, born in early april, wonder what id get?? would i be as well off keep him over the winter and see what id get next spring or just offload him now??

dont think there are many buyers there at the minute, my 2 calves where br.fr so where shapely enough. they had had a good bit of meal. was a bit disapointed with 150 each but at least they are gone now