Could Ireland be better at world sports if it wasn't for GAA?

Fenian Army

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Then why has it not become more popular world wide?

Because we didnt go around the world conquering it and leaving behind garrison games as part of a cultural conquest.

Ms.M

Orizio wrote: »

For example.

Boxing and dressage!

For example, I went to a soccer secondary school. GAA and rugby were scoffed at. No equestrian squad or sailing either! My darn luck! Some sports are inevitably deemed less significant at family, school and community level. It's a pity kids can't participate in every sport there is and find the one they like the most; then I'm sure they'd achieve more in terms of international success. We all promote different sports to our kids and we can't all afford horse-riding lessons. It's just the way it is. And it's only sport.

kincsem

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Also, although many people refuse to acknowledge it East Africans have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running.

No, they do not. If you watched the Eamonn Coughlan program last night on RTE1 it was stated by one of the former top Kenyan runners that there is more similarity between some Kenyans and Europeans, than between Kenyans and other Kenyans.
He said the difference was "high expectations". A Kenyan getting to an olympic final is not feted. Only winning gold is respected. High expectations produce high performance.

Sea Filly

BaZmO* wrote: »

Show me one peer reviewed study that backs that up

A slew of articles here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=african%20long%20distance%20running

dan1895

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

dan1895 wrote: »

I think the OP has a point. At international level we're very poor and constantly underachieve. Rugby is only taken seriously in a handful of countries and our football team is poor compared to similar sized countries, Denmark, Uruguay, Netherlands etc. There are potentially top class athletes who end up playing GAA but that's their choice and good luck to them.

There are 16 million people in the Netherlands. Whatever about the other two, that isn't a good example.

Oops my bad.

fryup

Fenian Army wrote: »

Because we didnt go around the world conquering it and leaving behind garrison games as part of a cultural conquest.

the British were never in Brazil and football (soccer) is the no1 sport there

Kidchameleon

kincsem wrote: »

Do you mean if the amateur GAA players switched to soccer they would be the best in the world at soccer?
If that is what you mean why don't they give up that amateur game for a while, play the £100,000 a week game, and show them how it's done.

No I dont mean that. I mean, imagine you took the GAA football when it started, and instead played soccer. You would have a Dublin team, Kildare team, Kilkenny team etc... You would have tens of thousands of people goin to matches each week, a much better infrastructure, all the pride that the GAA has and none of the crap of buying foreign players. It would be totally class, it would be world famous and you would have teams buying our players for millions (but some of them may not want to leave). GAA football is the way club soccer should be.

woodoo

PE at school was looked upon by the teachers as a bit of a treat. It wasn't a high priority at all.

I heard some stats about medals there on RTE, we have 25, other countries our size like NZ and Norway, Finland have over a hundred. We are massively underachieving.

Cookie_Monster

Fenian Army wrote: »

Because we didnt go around the world conquering it and leaving behind garrison games as part of a cultural conquest.

but the Irish have spread to every corner of the world and are well know for it. Surely if the locals thought GAA was worth playing they would have started to join when they saw local Irish groups playing? It hasn't happened despite there being GAA groups dotted around the world.

Whereas Volleyball is huge worldwide, invented in the US, second most popular sport in the world after soccer because people obviously find it far more fun than football or hurling...

policarp

If the other sporting organisations were as well run as the GAA I think we would have a few more medals in the bag.
Most of our best athletes have to get scholarships and train abroad. . .

Fenian Army

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No I dont mean that. I mean, imagine you took the GAA football when it started, and instead played soccer. You would have a Dublin team, Kildare team, Kilkenny team etc... You would have tens of thousands of people goin to matches each week, a much better infrastructure, all the pride that the GAA has and none of the crap of buying foreign players. It would be totally class, it would be world famous and you would have teams buying our players for millions (but some of them may not want to leave). GAA football is the way club soccer should be.

Why would you want that though?

I love soccer too but if it was a choice between having indigenous sports being popular or a foreign game I'd chose the culturally important one every day.

Thats before we eve get into the rubbish surrounding money, money has wrecked soccer to a great degree imo, look at PSG. The fact that GAA is amateur is one of the best things about it imo.

Fenian Army

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but the Irish have spread to every corner of the world and are well know for it. Surely if the locals thought GAA was worth playing they would have started to join when they saw local Irish groups playing? It hasn't happened despite there being GAA groups dotted around the world.

Whereas Volleyball is huge worldwide, invented in the US, second most popular sport in the world after soccer because people obviously find it far more fun than football or hurling...

GAA is growing however.

Is your argument effectively that GAA is **** because foreigners dont play it?

DEFTLEFTHAND

woodoo wrote: »

PE at school was looked upon by the teachers as a bit of a treat. It wasn't a high priority at all.

I heard some stats about medals there on RTE, we have 25, other countries our size like NZ and Norway, Finland have over a hundred. We are massively underachieving.

Finland actually have 451, (300 Summer, 151 Winter) that's some haul for a country of 5 million people.

Cookie_Monster

Fenian Army wrote: »

Is your argument effectively that GAA is **** because foreigners dont play it?

no, just that if it was a truly great sport rather than just another decent one it'd be more popular around the world.

woodoo

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Also, although many people refuse to acknowledge it East Africans have a genetic advantage when it comes to long distance running.

Same with sprinting and black people. Aul whitie has only ran under 10 seconds once.

BaZmO*

Sea Filly wrote: »

A slew of articles here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=african%20long%20distance%20running

A quote from the first article in that list (didn't bother reading the rest)

In general, it appears that Kenyan and Ethiopian distance-running success is not based on a unique genetic or physiological characteristic. Rather, it appears to be the result of favorable somatotypical characteristics lending to exceptional biomechanical and metabolic economy/efficiency; chronic exposure to altitude in combination with moderate-volume, high-intensity training (live high + train high), and a strong psychological motivation to succeed athletically for the purpose of economic and social advancement.

Fenian Army

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

no, just that if it was a truly great sport rather than just another decent one it'd be more popular around the world.

What type of inferiority complex do you have?

Its the most popular sport in Ireland, yet it can't be deemed "great" because you don't have foreigners (who have probably never seen/heard of it) don't play in large numbers?

Sea Filly

BaZmO* wrote: »

A quote from the first article in that list (didn't bother reading the rest)

Right, so their world location helps a lot, they have an advantage! Nothing wrong with it either, lucky them!

Richard Hillman

Good sports, horrible organization. It will fall like the catholic church and Fianna Fail. I only found out that they had the Quarter finals of the all irelands yesterday. They sell out about 3-4 games a year so its on the fall.

Yamanoto

Sauve wrote: »

Hating on the sheer skill and talent that goes into GAA sports, esp hurling.
Hating on the tight sense of belonging and community that is given to so many players.
Hating on the sense of achievement and downright pride that comes with a county medal.
Not understanding the sheer joy and atmosphere that's experienced by sitting in the stands in Croke Park on a sunny September Sunday.

Nah - it's the white legs, bri-nylon jerseys with all the design aesthetic of a pack o'rashers and grown men who still go by the name of John-Paul.






*Do like the hurling though

Sauve

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Good sports, horrible organization. It will fall like the catholic church and Fianna Fail. I only found out that they had the Quarter finals of the all irelands yesterday. They sell out about 3-4 games a year so its on the fall.

Far from it. You're utterly wrong.

evolving_doors

Could Ireland be better at world sports if it wasn't for GAA?...ergo Cavan people...Fr. Brian Darcy... catholic Church.. Sinead O Connor

Talk about a tenuous link...

Is this a thinly veiled thread about Sean Quinn?

Sure wasn't it the GAA (Sean Quinn's brother) who brought down Anglo Bank the whole country ...again.... no wonder we are/aren't doing so well in the Olympics. it's because Sean Quinn got up off his arse and turned this country around.

I think the OP's thinking on Chaos Theory is too dangerous for AH.

ArmaniJeanss

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No I dont mean that. I mean, imagine you took the GAA football when it started, and instead played soccer. You would have a Dublin team, Kildare team, Kilkenny team etc... You would have tens of thousands of people goin to matches each week, a much better infrastructure, all the pride that the GAA has and none of the crap of buying foreign players. It would be totally class, it would be world famous and you would have teams buying our players for millions (but some of them may not want to leave). GAA football is the way club soccer should be.

Why would 'they' be buying players for millions? Assuming you see the players as still being amateur under this 'GAA running soccer' scenario then they could be bought up for nothing/zero/nada as they don't have a professional contract.

awec

Only started watching GAA recently, it's pretty good. Have never been to a game though and nor have I actually watched a game (even on TV) involving my actual home county. Couldn't even tell you if they're any good

DEFTLEFTHAND

awec wrote: »

Only started watching GAA recently, it's pretty good. Have never been to a game though and nor have I actually watched a game (even on TV) involving my actual home county. Couldn't even tell you if they're any good

What's your home county? We'll tell you if they're any good or not.:D

laoch na mona

we're handy at the boxing
and gaa beats soccar any day

laoch na mona

we're handy at the boxing
and gaa beats soccar any day

awec

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What's your home county? We'll tell you if they're any good or not.:D

Armagh!

They're sh!te, right?

At hurling especially.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

kincsem wrote: »

No, they do not. If you watched the Eamonn Coughlan program last night on RTE1 it was stated by one of the former top Kenyan runners that there is more similarity between some Kenyans and Europeans, than between Kenyans and other Kenyans.
He said the difference was "high expectations". A Kenyan getting to an olympic final is not feted. Only winning gold is respected. High expectations produce high performance.

Explain why, despite soccer's popularity in the region, no east African team has ever seen success in the World Cup. Explain why no West African has seen success in long-distance running. Its effectively been proven that different races have different amounts of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers meaning that they find success in different events.

fryup wrote: »

the British were never in Brazil and football (soccer) is the no1 sport there

Britain had a massive trading presence in Brazil spreading the games popularity.

GavRedKing

GAA has nothing to do with it. People choose to play whatever they want. We simply dony have the facilities in the country to compete across a vast aray of sports but those that we do compete in we have some excellent talent and thats doen to dedication and the indivuidals involved.

DEFTLEFTHAND

awec wrote: »

Armagh!

They're sh!te, right?

At hurling especially.

Ah not too bad at football, you won you're first All Ireland in 2002 and have won numerous Ulster titles over the years.

Hurling has improved recently in contrast to rest of the province, Armagh contested an Ulster SH final a couple of years back.

awec

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Ah not too bad at football, you won you're first All Ireland in 2002 and have won numerous Ulster titles over the years.

Hurling has improved recently in contrast to rest of the province, Armagh contested an Ulster SH final a couple of years back.

Just looked it up, we beat Kerry in the final. I hear it's always good to beat Kerry.

The chances of me going to an Armagh game are slim. Wouldn't travel up home for it. All the stuff I've watched has been Dublin.

KOR12

Genghis Khan. wrote: »

The GAA is not about sport but about expressing and forcing a culture upon the Irish people. It is a nationalistic organisation and nothing else. Irish kids should take up proper sports which they can earn a living from.

You really haven't got a clue what sport is if you judge gaelic football and hurling as not "proper sports". The skill and fitness levels to play both of these sports at the highest level is phenomenal.

Cookie_Monster

GavRedKing wrote: »

We simply dony have the facilities in the country to compete across a vast aray of sports but those that we do compete in we have some excellent talent and thats doen to dedication and the indivuidals involved.

But that goes back to what sports people do in school or at that age and since GAA, rubgy and soccer are so popular thats what most schools focus on to the exclusion of most other sports and spend money on the required facilities and equip for these. It's self perpetuating too, you grow up with certain sports as the popular ones you are in turn more likely to play these to the exclusions of others and these others are less and less catered for and through the generations these sports simply fall off the general radar of people.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But that goes back to what sports people do in school or at that age and since GAA, rubgy and soccer are so popular thats what most schools focus on to the exclusion of most other sports and spend money on the required facilities and equip for these. It's self perpetuating too, you grow up with certain sports as the popular ones you are in turn more likely to play these to the exclusions of others and these others are less and less catered for and through the generations these sports simply fall off the general radar of people.

There's nothing stopping people from becoming involved in a sport outside of school if they're really interested.

BaZmO*

kincsem wrote: »

No, they do not. If you watched the Eamonn Coughlan program last night on RTE1 it was stated by one of the former top Kenyan runners that there is more similarity between some Kenyans and Europeans, than between Kenyans and other Kenyans.
He said the difference was "high expectations". A Kenyan getting to an olympic final is not feted. Only winning gold is respected. High expectations produce high performance.

Exactly. And a perfect example of "high expectations" is the Team GB medal tally so far at these games.

Chips Ahoy

Maci Gigantic Staple wrote: »

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But that goes back to what sports people do in school or at that age and since GAA, rubgy and soccer are so popular thats what most schools focus on to the exclusion of most other sports and spend money on the required facilities and equip for these. It's self perpetuating too, you grow up with certain sports as the popular ones you are in turn more likely to play these to the exclusions of others and these others are less and less catered for and through the generations these sports simply fall off the general radar of people.

There's nothing stopping people from becoming involved in a sport outside of school if they're really interested.

Not true I tried to join my local athletic club the other day but the local priest came out with a hurl and chased me away, never again

Alessandra

Whilst I admire and support all that the GAA provides our country in terms of sport and culture, I have certain reservations about the exclusivity with which GAA games are proliferated in Irish schools and communities.

I fully support the coaching and promotion of GAA throughout the country however I do feel that some alternatives should be offered.

In my youth at primary school we rarely had a PE lesson. In secondary we had the chance to play a selection of team sports (football/hurling/soccer/basketball). Outside of that a rare badminton game. We were never offered Athletics, martial arts, tennis, swimming or any other individual sporting activity. This was the experience of many of my peers.

Its a great shame as I believe many potential sportspersons are lost by the lack of choice available in schools and communities in Ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Alessandra wrote: »

Whilst I admire and support all that the GAA provides our country in terms of sport and culture, I have certain reservations about the exclusivity with which GAA games are proliferated in Irish schools and communities.

I fully support the coaching and promotion of GAA throughout the country however I do feel that some alternatives should be offered.

In my youth at primary school we rarely had a PE lesson. In secondary we had the chance to play a selection of team sports (football/hurling/soccer/basketball). Outside of that a rare badminton game. We were never offered Athletics, martial arts, tennis, swimming or any other individual sporting activity. This was the experience of many of my peers.

Its a great shame as I believe many potential sportspersons are lost by the lack of choice available in schools and communities in Ireland.

That's becase the sports you list are expenisve and not traditionally Irish. Also, you never learn about tactics in PE lessons, it;s just here's a a ball, here's the pitch, go play.

GAA, in my experience, is a classic example of this: there is not real tactical element to it. The formations used by the teams are strict and add no fludity or imagination to the game - it';s just a case of accurate kicking and that's it.

FullBeard

Sauve wrote: »

Hating on the sheer skill and talent that goes into GAA sports, esp hurling.

I don't hate this. It just doesn't impress me.

Hating on the tight sense of belonging and community that is given to so many players.

I do dislike tribes and anything that fosters a them-vs-us attitude. The GAA has perpetuated parochialism and parochial rivalry that has seeped into politics in the form of the parish pump.

Hating on the sense of achievement and downright pride that comes with a county medal.

See above.

Not understanding the sheer joy and atmosphere that's experienced by sitting in the stands in Croke Park on a sunny September Sunday.

I'm glad I don't understand this. The collective consciousness you allude to is redolent of a mob mentality. In this case, there's no real harm in it. But I just dislike tribes and mobs whatever their hue.

They're afraid of the fact that they're missing out on the good stuff.

A matter of preference.

If there was no GAA, what would de yoot in every dreary rural backwater do with themselves I wonder. We'll never know.

WallyGUFC

Alessandra wrote: »

Whilst I admire and support all that the GAA provides our country in terms of sport and culture, I have certain reservations about the exclusivity with which GAA games are proliferated in Irish schools and communities.

I fully support the coaching and promotion of GAA throughout the country however I do feel that some alternatives should be offered.

In my youth at primary school we rarely had a PE lesson. In secondary we had the chance to play a selection of team sports (football/hurling/soccer/basketball). Outside of that a rare badminton game. We were never offered Athletics, martial arts, tennis, swimming or any other individual sporting activity. This was the experience of many of my peers.

Its a great shame as I believe many potential sportspersons are lost by the lack of choice available in schools and communities in Ireland.

PE in primary we wern't allowed play football, twas always Gaelic football or hurling. OT, if Ireland focused on just a few sports we'd do far better. I mean, we never have a chance at any athletics, any swimming, stuff like that. Focus on what we're good at and the medals would flow in.

oppenheimer1

This topic crops up from time to time and without fail amuses me. It always brings the GAA bashers out in force as well. If it were not for the GAA it is likely we would be even worse at international sport than we are now as it GAA that generally introduces young people to sport and provides facilities to train on, particularly athletics. The largest junior athletics championship generally takes place in GAA facilities.

It also takes a massive assumption that if the GAA didn't organise other sport would have benefited. The history of other sport in this country when it comes to organisation is far from glorious, in fact the term "couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery" comes to mind.

Also having international sports as the national sports doesn't automatically translate into olympic medals. The UK which practically invented all modern internationa games was a major under performer at Olympics, culminating in the disastrous Atlanta games. They then decided to plough lottery money into cycling as it was a medal rich niche sport. They spent over £30m pounds on it last year.

If we want medals we need to divert money to elite programmes and coaching.Thats what the gaa has done for its players. Its what the brits have done. The talent is there, its in everyone.... It just takes time and money to develop it.

Sauve

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

GAA, in my experience, is a classic example of this: there is not real tactical element to it. The formations used by the teams are strict and add no fludity or imagination to the game - it';s just a case of accurate kicking and that's it.

You don't have a bollocks' notion what you're talking about.

Owen_S

Alessandra wrote: »

Whilst I admire and support all that the GAA provides our country in terms of sport and culture, I have certain reservations about the exclusivity with which GAA games are proliferated in Irish schools and communities.

I fully support the coaching and promotion of GAA throughout the country however I do feel that some alternatives should be offered.

In my youth at primary school we rarely had a PE lesson. In secondary we had the chance to play a selection of team sports (football/hurling/soccer/basketball). Outside of that a rare badminton game. We were never offered Athletics, martial arts, tennis, swimming or any other individual sporting activity. This was the experience of many of my peers.

Its a great shame as I believe many potential sportspersons are lost by the lack of choice available in schools and communities in Ireland.

It's all about the schools, something which got a lot of media attention in Britain. Half of their medal-winning athletes attended fee-paying schools, but only 7% of the population attends these schools. The higher amount of funding in these schools means that they can offer a wider variety of sports with better facilities and often better coaching.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9446407/Team-GB-chief-dominance-of-public-schools-is-unacceptable.html

Students in British state schools probably have the same problems as most schools here.

LoYL

We would win gold for drinking and b**ll***s acting.

WumBuster

Its like asking would USA win more medals if they werent so hung up on American football or baseball. Would the Aussies win more medals if they didnt have Aussie rules or rugby league. Would GB win more medals if they werent so into soccer and cricket.China with badminton and tabletennis. And so on. GAA is our national sport and part of our culture. Get over it

Sauve

WallyGUFC wrote: »

PE in primary we wern't allowed play football, twas always Gaelic football or hurling. OT, if Ireland focused on just a few sports we'd do far better. I mean, we never have a chance at any athletics, any swimming, stuff like that. Focus on what we're good at and the medals would flow in.

As much as I'll be screaming myself blue at the telly when Katie Taylor is fighting for a gold medal tomorrow, I couldn't give a flying shyte how many medals Team Ireland comes home with.
For me, it's not what sport is about. The thought of herding our youth into sports with the sole aim of bringing home Olympic medals is preposterous.
If a person gets what they need from sport (fitness, achievement, personal and team pride, confidence), then leave them at it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sauve wrote: »

You don't have a bollocks' notion what you're talking about.

Really? So they play different formations as opposed to 3-3-2-3-3?

And the players are skilled in different positions as opposed to just a specific job?

Sauve

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Really? So they play different formations as opposed to 3-3-2-3-3?

And the players are skilled in different positions as opposed to just a specific job?

Absolutely. All the time.

Formations are constantly mixed up and switched around.
Many players can play very well in a number of different positions.
Same as most field sports.

WallyGUFC

Sauve wrote: »

As much as I'll be screaming myself blue at the telly when Katie Taylor is fighting for a gold medal tomorrow, I couldn't give a flying shyte how many medals Team Ireland comes home with.
For me, it's not what sport is about. The thought of herding our youth into sports with the sole aim of bringing home Olympic medals is preposterous.
If a person gets what they need from sport (fitness, achievement, personal and team pride, confidence), then leave them at it.

Well obviously not all sport is about winning, but Olympics is the the top of the mountain. I get what I want from football: a bit of craic and a bit of fitness. Olympians shouldn't be going over just for the craic, they should have a winning attitude. What's the point in sending a swimmer with glandular fever over to London ffs?