Fined on Dublin Bus

war_child

AstonMartin wrote: »

I am not from Dublin and until today was unfamiliar with Dublin Bus fares.

I was going from Westmoreland Street to Celbridge and paid e1.90.

3 ticket inspectors came on to the bus at Lucan, looked at my ticket, demanded to see my id or they would haul me off to the police station to prove my identity.

They noted down my PPS number from my social services card, my student ID from an old student card and my address and issued me with a e50 fine.

I gave them a fake address, not that it would make much difference I assume seeing as they have my PPS number.

I have 21 days to pay this fine and they told me I would be brought to court if I didn't pay.

What happens if I don't pay?

Ive seen the Luas inspectors get on in 2s and 3s but never Dublin Bus me think you be telling fibbles my good man

Dyr

war_child wrote: »

Ive seen the Luas inspectors get on in 2s and 3s but never Dublin Bus me think you be telling fibbles my good man

I've only seen DB inspectors coming on in three's over the last few years

the groutch

surely the OP is taking the p!ss.
westmoreland to celbridge is 30 stages, and he thought it was €1.90?
he could have used the Dublin Bus website, asked the driver, gotten one of those timetables in their O'Connell St office, etc.
ignorance is no excuse.

LXFlyer

It is perfectly common for DB inspectors to be in sets of 3 - one checks downstairs, one upstairs, while the third is at the door to stop anyone who is trying to evade being checked.

LXFlyer

It is interesting when one checks the OP's posting history - he/she does seem to have quite a record of trying to evade paying full price for many things...

DonkeyStyle \o/

Formation wrote: »

who actually goes in to dublin bus with their 10c change ticket? Sickening that they get away with that.

I've never claimed back any change from those, I wonder how much it'd be after all these years. A few euro anyway. I don't mind letting them have it, but I'd like a bit of leeway in return. Being fined for being 20c (?) short on a ticket seems quite mean and unnecessary from an individual point of view.

The drivers aren't without fault either, a few times I've had tickets printed for less than I asked (and paid) for... and if I'm distracted and haven't checked my ticket... mistakes happen.

TouchingVirus

dirtyden wrote: »

Ticket inspectors now work in threes?

Something fishy about this story.

Nothing fishy about that. Has happened several times on the 13 and 16 heading southside that a group of 3 inspectors get on at Parnell Square and get off on Dame Street after checking all the passengers for valid tickets. Incidentally I think you got off rather lightly as I'm sure I ready that earlier this year the standard fare was put up from €50 to €100.

MagicSean

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How exactly would they verify that? I know a lad who was asked to give a name and address to the Gardai for pissing in public near Pearse Dart station, he gave them a fake one and that was the end of it.

Good for him. i know many people who have given false details and have ended up in a cell until someone could bring down proof of their address.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

An arrest? Seriously? :rolleyes:

Those are the powers they have, no matter how much you roll your eyes.

SYLT

(b) The person aforesaid shall on the request of the authorised person remain in the company of the authorised person pending verification of the name and address.

Might be a dumb question but since it is just a request, what would happen if you said no?

mikemac1

paddyandy wrote: »

Good to see them doing their job !!!

Yeah, they fine students and working people on incorrect tickets but they never go near the messers and scum on the 40 or the 27

Great job

suicide_circus

gurramok wrote: »

You should of acted like a junkie, they would have ignored you.

Well if he was s junkie he would have a free travel card

AeoNGriM

dirtyden wrote: »

Ticket inspectors now work in threes?

Something fishy about this story.

I saw 3 inspectors on a 40 bus other day, does happen

MagicSean

SYLT wrote: »

Might be a dumb question but since it is just a request, what would happen if you said no?

Read on to part c

suicide_circus

lxflyer wrote: »

It is perfectly common for DB inspectors to be in sets of 3 - one checks downstairs, one upstairs, while the third is at the door to stop anyone who is trying to evade being checked.

how does that work exactly? If i try and walk past the guy at the door he's gonna put me in a greko-roman style headlock or something? What if i start screaming "i'm a haemopheliac!!"?

JohnMarston

Only in dublin..

LXFlyer

As an authorised official, he is perfectly entitled to detain you under Dublin Bus by-laws pending the arrival of the gardai.

With respect I think you're being a tad sensationalist.

Dyr

Ya wouldnt want to be getting physical with the dublin bus flat cap's, their selection process and training is both rigorous and renowned. They are the Navy SEAL's of the public transport world. :cool:

Formation

the inspectors are the last to get on and check all tickets before the next stop, the door is closed, there are 3 inspectors, you are not walking away unless you bring your keyboard and start swinging

HoggyRS

Yer big smoke bus system sounds stupid. 1.70 on my bus no matter how far I go and thats the way I like it.

miller50841

LifesaverNiall wrote: »

More importantly why the feck does Dublin Bus go out to Celbridge and not Ashbourne.. Bus Eireann is well too expensive for my liking these days..

Due to distance from depot and no fitted seat belts

miller50841

mikemac1 wrote: »

Yeah, they fine students and working people on incorrect tickets but they never go near the messers and scum on the 40 or the 27

Great job

Put in a complaint if enough do they have to do something Im sick of it too.
If you feel threatened in anyway or feel things are wrong they have cameras everywhere on the bus so just mail them.

miller50841

suicide_circus wrote: »

how does that work exactly? If i try and walk past the guy at the door he's gonna put me in a greko-roman style headlock or something? What if i start screaming "i'm a haemopheliac!!"?

Then I would say he would have to deck you

Corruptedmorals

the groutch wrote: »

surely the OP is taking the p!ss.
westmoreland to celbridge is 30 stages, and he thought it was €1.90?
he could have used the Dublin Bus website, asked the driver, gotten one of those timetables in their O'Connell St office, etc.
ignorance is no excuse.

It was €1.90. In 2006 I believe. But yeah, it's one of the longest bus routes DB have, thinking it's going to be the same as one of the short city routes is no excuse.

Corruptedmorals

LifesaverNiall wrote: »

More importantly why the feck does Dublin Bus go out to Celbridge and not Ashbourne.. Bus Eireann is well too expensive for my liking these days..

Celbridge has a much bigger population. The same bus goes to Maynooth too, bigger population and the college etc. It also goes through Lucan, Liffey Valley, Palmerstown and Chapelizod and serves their population too.

miller50841

What I have learn't from this thread is that OP is as dumb and so is your one bambi.
Fair play to them both on the trying to wind people up bit though.:pac: Idiots

AeoNGriM

miller50841 wrote: »

Due to distance from depot and no fitted seat belts

There are no fitted seat belts on most of Bus Eireann's buses, and Swords, which IS served by Dublin Bus is about the same distance from the depot as Ashbourne is.

later12

What I have learn't from this thread is that OP is as dumb and so is your one bambi.
Fair play to them both on the trying to wind people up bit though. Idiots

Really? What I have learned from the thread is that some users will rain fury & indignation on strangers for trivial transgressions on Dublin Bus.

I mean I can understand passions being fired on political, sporting or various other topics worthy of serious debate.

But getting into a tizzy for 75c?

war_child

JohnMarston wrote: »

Only in dublin..

Whats that supposed to mean John?

conorhal

Bambi wrote: »

1 I'll decide who my buddys are thank you very much. For now you're definitely my buddy, buddy. I can understand you came steaming in here laying down the law and now you're bulling that you've been made look a little silly ubt that's no reason to be getting all personal bud. It's just a life lesson is all

2. You're now off into the realms supposition buddy. Pure speculation there. Look's like fun, playing the makey up legal expert so I'll have a go too: Once you have given your name/address to our theoretical inspector you have complied with the requirements of the SI, he now has to decide whether your reply was truthful, he has no powers under the SI to demand corroborating information so to demand ID would not a lawful order as he has no powers to make that demand. No, our flat capped friend has to make a decision with only the information provided and if he is not happy then he may request the services of a garda, provided he has reasonable grounds to do so. Of course you could feel free to show ID to any stalwart guardian of the peace who is summoned if you so desired. You could also feel free to make our inspector friends life awkward if it turned out you had given him a valid name and address after all.

All of which could also total sh*te based on nothing, just like your wild speculation



ah the old "sound like" wheeze to try and circumvent that pesky personal abuse rule, bit of a clumsy effort but I don't take it personal buddy, no harm done wha'? I'm just all for keeping petty tyrants in check when they start overstepping their remit. Makes for a better world all round. You'd be more of the "nothing to hide-do what you're told" worldview I'd say. But sure takes all sorts buddy.

BWAhahahahaha!

Yeah.. you're some Robin Hood alright, sticking it to The Man 80cents at a time... when in fact all you're doing is making life difficult for a bloke that's only doing his job like the next little guy.

You sound like (oh yeah, I went there) some petulant drunk at the bar that's been cut off, shreaking that his Youman Roits are being infringed.

Attitudes like yours of course are no surprise in a country where thousands turn out to clap the likes of Sean Quinn on the back.

We really are a nation of gombeen men that demand to know why the country is a disaster, while assuming that any form of regulation actually only applies to 'the other guy'.

norrie rugger

MrStuffins wrote: »

So you're pretty well used to Dublin Bus at this point! You were making out you were just some bumpkin who had no idea of the prices.

Of course you knew €1.90 wasn't a "standard fare". Come off it! That might've been what you told the inspectors but the internet won't believe you! The internet will see through your lies!

Bus Eireann has a standard fare that you pay, regardless of the length of the journey.
If you were told that, on day one, that the cost was €1.90 and you do not know that Dublin Bus runs a staggered fare, then it is an easy mistake to make TBH

Larianne

war_child wrote: »

Ive seen the Luas inspectors get on in 2s and 3s but never Dublin Bus me think you be telling fibbles my good man

Nah, I've seen it myself on the 41. Two went upstairs and one stayed downstairs, getting ticket information off the driver.

ProudDUB

norrie rugger wrote: »

If you were told that, on day one, that the cost was €1.90 and you do not know that Dublin Bus runs a staggered fare, then it is an easy mistake to make TBH

It's not an easy mistake to make considering that there are signs on a lot of bus stops specifically saying that traveling to different stages of the bus journey cost different fares, and what those fares & stages are. OP has said that they travel a variety of routes and has done so for months. Am having a hard time believing that they never once saw one of these signs while waiting for a bus. There are also lots of signs on the buses themselves saying it is the responsibility of the passengers to ensure that they have paid the correct fare. Why would those signs be there if there was one "standard" fare?

Also find it hard to believe that while boarding the buses the OP did not observe other passengers paying different fares than 1.90, or see/hear the passengers telling the driver where they were going, and the driver then telling them what the fare is. If this was the first time the OP was using Dublin Bus and they presumed that 1.90 was a standard charge, fair enough. But to state that you have used it several times, and never noticed a fare structure in place, or other people paying different fares than you, is just taking the piss imo.

Dyr

conorhal wrote: »

BWAhahahahaha!

Yeah.. you're some Robin Hood alright, sticking it to The Man 80cents at a time... when in fact all you're doing is making life difficult for a bloke that's only doing his job like the next little guy.

You sound like (oh yeah, I went there) some petulant drunk at the bar that's been cut off, shreaking that his Youman Roits are being infringed.

Attitudes like yours of course are no surprise in a country where thousands turn out to clap the likes of Sean Quinn on the back.

We really are a nation of gombeen men that demand to know why the country is a disaster, while assuming that any form of regulation actually only applies to 'the other guy'.

I have a yearly bus ticket so none of your long stream of dribble applies to me
Sorry bud

Losty Dublin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Bus Eireann has a standard fare that you pay, regardless of the length of the journey.
If you were told that, on day one, that the cost was €1.90 and you do not know that Dublin Bus runs a staggered fare, then it is an easy mistake to make TBH

Which is fair enough except Dublin Bus don't do a standard fare. Were he to assume that they do then on his first ever bus trip with Dublin Bus he'd have asked the driver how much is the standard fare only to be told that there isn't one. If he took the word of a friend on this then he was misinformed but as he seems to use buses a fair amount I doubt if he was unaware of this.

stevek93

validusername1 wrote: »

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

He said that you can pay whatever you want just name a price to the driver as its less hassle than making him look up the price for that exact stop.

A friend of mine told me to do this too. He said you just say '€1.90' to the driver and you're sorted. Any time I'm in Dublin & have to use the bus, that's what I do regardless of where I'm going. I have no idea if I was ever supposed to have paid more than that

Most of the time I just pay 90c :P.

MadsL

Bambi wrote:

I doubt that you are required to corroborate ANYTHING to a bus inspector Capiche? He can't ask you to produce ID, he can't ask you to ring your spouse/employer so he can confirm your identity with them. He can't do shag all except call for a garda once he has reasonable grounds to believe that you gave a false name/address.

Look, it is perfectly simple. Inspectors have a choice, if a person made an honest mistake they can let it slide with a warning or accept the name and address on face value. If however they feel that the person is pulling a fast one they can challenge the name and address and ask for verification. Not asking you to produce anything specific, just for verification. If you cannot or will not produce verification of any form, then they have the right to hold you until a member of AGS arrives. How else do you think you prove a name and address beyond reasonable doubt?

Now the power to hold you until a Guard arrives isn't 'shag all' as much as you seem to want to undermine their position, it is a clearly defined legal power.

So as for your position, the only way it carries any sense is if you are advocating not complying with a direction of an authorised person under the meaning of the SI or sitting and wasting police time in order to show ID to the Guard. Neither of which strike me as something a useful citizen would advocate.

Bambi wrote: »

I have a yearly bus ticket so none of your long stream of dribble applies to me
Sorry bud

So you should be grateful and respectful of Inspectors helping to make sure your ticket doesn't go up again next year.

If you forget to bring it you will be whining about your man trying to his job and demanding a Guard present? Or complying nicely with the gentleman and offering to bring it in for verification?

later12 wrote:

Really? What I have learned from the thread is that some users will rain fury & indignation on strangers for trivial transgressions on Dublin Bus.

I mean I can understand passions being fired on political, sporting or various other topics worthy of serious debate.

But getting into a tizzy for 75c?

I think you will find much of that directed at the fact the OP gave a false address and others encouraging that behaviour or other so-called "rights". Do you think giving a false address is not a serious topic?

Dyr

MadsL wrote: »

Look, it is perfectly simple. Inspectors have a choice, if a person made an honest mistake they can let it slide with a warning or accept the name and address on face value. If however they feel that the person is pulling a fast one they can challenge the name and address and ask for verification. Not asking you to produce anything specific, just for verification. If you cannot or will not produce verification of any form, then they have the right to hold you until a member of AGS arrives. How else do you think you prove a name and address beyond reasonable doubt?

Now the power to hold you until a Guard arrives isn't 'shag all' as much as you seem to want to undermine their position, it is a clearly defined legal power,

So as for your position, the only way it carries any sense is if you are advocating not complying with a direction of an authorised person under the meaning of the SI or sitting and wasting police time in order to show ID to the Guard. Neither of which strike me as something a useful citizen would advocate.



So you should be grateful and respectful of Inspectors helping to make sure your ticket doesn't go up again next year.

If you forget to bring it you will be whining about your man trying to his job and demanding a Guard present? Or complying nicely with the gentleman and offering to bring it in for verification?


I think you will find much of that directed at the fact the OP gave a false address and others encouraging that behaviour or other so-called "rights". Do you think giving a false address is not a serious topic?

oh hai, you're back. How did you get on in that Legal forum? Not too well?

SO what did you learn, do dublin bus staff have the power to demand ID or anything similar in order to verify your name and address? That's the issue here buddy, that was always the issue, not all that prevarication and whataboutery that you're spouting now. Obfuscation, it's a fancy word but I know what it means and you're doing it now

If however they feel that the person is pulling a fast one they can challenge the name and address and ask for verification

I think you know by now that the only thing they can they can do to confirm your identity is to call a copper and let him take proceedings from there, they have no power to demand verification of your details. You're wiggling now buddy, but given your previous nastiness I can't let you wiggle. . They can challenge and ask all they like but they cannot demand ID.

Now the power to hold you until a Guard arrives isn't 'shag all' as much as you seem to want to undermine their position, it is a clearly defined legal power,

I never said they didn't have the power to demand that you remain in their company until a copper arrived. You're getting confused or you're wiggling more. Stop wiggling my friend, it's unbecoming

Dyr

But now lets move onto your fallback position that while they can't demand that you produce ID that they can use your refusal to produce ID when requested as grounds to form a reasonable assumption that you gave false details.

they can use a refusal to comply with a request (that they have no power to make) to infer anything? Dodgy ground there I would say my man. You'd have store security detaining suspected shoplifters on the grounds of reasonable suspicion because they refused to consent to being strip searched. Anarchy would prevail, good barristers would clean up. maybe have the Legal eagles in their lofty forum check that out too, I'd be skeptical in the extreme

MadsL

Bambi wrote: »

oh hai, you're back. How did you get on in that Legal forum? Not too well?

SO what did you learn, do dublin bus staff have the power to demand ID or anything similar in order to verify your name and address? That's the issue here buddy, that was always the issue, not all that prevarication and whataboutery that you're spouting now. Obfuscation, it's a fancy word but I know what it means and you're doing it now

I think you know by now that the only thing they can they can do to confirm your identity is to call a copper and let him take proceedings from there, they have no power to demand verification of your details. You're wiggling now buddy, but given your previous nastiness I can't let you wiggle. . They can challenge and ask all they like but they cannot demand ID.

I never said they didn't have the power to demand that you remain in their company until a copper arrived. You're getting confused or you're wiggling more. Stop wiggling my friend, it's unbecoming

I have the integrity to open a thread on legal discussion, rather than simply waffle as you seem to be doing. That discussion is still going on, care to join in? So far all we have established is the text of the SI.

The SI gives the Inspector the power to have name and address given to their satisfaction - do you dispute that?
To their satisfaction in my book would include being shown something to verify the name and address if asked, what reasonable person would dispute that?
If they have difficulty or the person refuses to be cooperative, they may call AGS who at that point may demand proof or arrest the person.
The SI gives inspectors the power to do their job backed by AGS. What part of that are you having a problem with? Seriously, what is your issue with these guys doing their job? Earlier you called them tyrants.
The practical fact of the matter is that an Inspector can see your ID by one of two methods, asking politely or by calling the Guards. Do you dispute that?

Speaking of wiggling, you haven't really answered the question of wasting police time now have you, is that what you would advocate to anyone in the OPs position?

MadsL

Bambi wrote: »

But now lets move onto your fallback position that while they can't demand that you produce ID that they can use your refusal to produce ID when requested as grounds to form a reasonable assumption that you gave false details.

they can use a refusal to comply with a request (that they have no power to make) to infer anything? Dodgy ground there I would say my man. You'd have store security detaining suspected shoplifters on the grounds of reasonable suspicion because they refused to consent to being strip searched. Anarchy would prevail, good barristers would clean up. maybe have the Legal eagles in their lofty forum check that out too, I'd be skeptical in the extreme

Now who is engaging in whataboutary?

war_child

Now this has just become a contest between bambi and mads about who swallowed the biggest dictionary for breakfast with their favourite croissant whilst sipping on a low fat mocha choca friggin latte ...serious lads its becoming silly now

Orla99

Any outcome.

MadsL

war_child wrote: »

Now this has just become a contest between bambi and mads about who swallowed the biggest dictionary for breakfast with their favourite croissant whilst sipping on a low fat mocha choca friggin latte ...serious lads its becoming silly now

Fine, I've posted a thread in Legal Discussion where it can be discussed sensibly and where there is less trolling.

I'm done here, I think I've made it perfectly plain that Bus Inspectors have powers under the law that are backed up by AGS if necessary. Finding fault with being politely asked for ID and forcing Inspectors to wait for AGS backup strikes me as a complete waste of police time. Claiming that Bus Inspectors are tyrants to be resisted also strikes me as a bizarre view of the world too and encouraging doing a legger and giving a fake addresses is just juvenile behaviour.

Kirby

Jaysus the moralists are out in force in this thread.

He didn't fare dodge or try to sneak on without paying. He simply paid too little to the tune of a euro. Calm down people. Most people would see paying a 50 or 100 euro fine for such an offence to be unreasonable and would look for a way out of it. The OP isn't the scourge of the earth for trying to avoid it. Bit of common sense here people.

If I paid the wrong fare and an inspector stopped me, I would apologise and offer to pay the difference. If he asked for a name and address I would give it, but he is in his ****e getting a look at my wallet. If he doesn't believe me, that's his problem. My ID stays in my pocket.

MadsL

Kirby wrote: »

If I paid the wrong fare and an inspector stopped me, I would apologise and offer to pay the difference. If he asked for a name and address I would give it, but he is in his ****e getting a look at my wallet. If he doesn't believe me, that's his problem. My ID stays in my pocket.

So you would wait until AGS turn up? What moral victory did you just win?

edit:

If he doesn't believe me, that's his problem.

Legally, it is your problem.

kirving

Let's take the €1.90, and €2.65 fares as an example.

So, if you can save 75c a jouney, and you make 10 jouneys a week, that's a €7.50 saving per week (as opposed to paying the full fare of €2.65).

Every 14 weeks, you'll be saving €105. This means that even if you get caught every 14 weeks, you're still making a saving. In 4 years of going to college, I've seen inspectors once. If you got the bus to work every day of the week, you'd have to be caught 15 times in the past 4 years before not paying would work out more expensive for you.

I always pay the correct far because I think it's stingy not to, and if I don't pay, the prices will just increase further in the future, but if you look at the maths, it's clear to see why people don't pay the full amount.

Dublin Bus should put 20 times the amount of inspectors on, even just for a year, and rid the country of this behaviour for good.

LXFlyer

I'm sorry - he repeatedly paid a lower fare than the appropriate one.

As I've posted above, an examination of his posting history shows him to be in Dublin at least two years and has been trying to evade paying correct prices in numerous different situations.

He is hardly angelic.

If everyone did that every day what would the effect be on the company's revenue stream?

Dyr

war_child wrote: »

Now this has just become a contest between bambi and mads about who swallowed the biggest dictionary for breakfast with their favourite croissant whilst sipping on a low fat mocha choca friggin latte ...serious lads its becoming silly now

I hate mocha's, large americano for me please and thank you. I've had my fun, while being correct, and that's all that matters

MadsL

Bambi wrote: »

while being correct, and that's all that matters

You are welcome to debate that on the LD thread. But as far as AH is concerned, I'm out.

hatrickpatrick

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm sorry - he repeatedly paid a lower fare than the appropriate one.

As I've posted above, an examination of his posting history shows him to be in Dublin at least two years and has been trying to evade paying correct prices in numerous different situations.

He is hardly angelic.

If everyone did that every day what would the effect be on the company's revenue stream?

They survived on about 50c less for every journey from Dun Laoghaire to Deans Grange for about half a decade. As I said, normally I wouldn't approve of this behavior but with ridiculous price inflation like that on top of being in a recession where we're supposed to be getting MORE competitive, I have no sympathy left for either Dublin Bus or the DART service. I fail to see how the price of the same journey can possible increase by half a Euro in just a couple of years (and it's a lot more than that for other journeys).

Couple this with Dublin Bus's nonsensical refusal to accept noted and/or give change on busses and you have an absolute shambles of a service.

Vote with your wallet.