Dublin Bus Inspectors and PPS numbers

MadsL

Curious about something that came up in AH. I am not the passenger but I'm interested in the Data Protection aspects of this.

Hypothetically, a Dublin Bus Passenger caught underpaying the fare gets caught and a ticket inspector demands to see ID or they would haul the passenger off to the police station to prove his identity.

They note down a PPS number given to them from a social services card, a student ID from an old student card and a fake address given to them by the passenger and issue a €50 fine.

Bearing in mind powers under this S.I. and the restrictions of the Data Protection Act, may Dublin Bus process his PPS number to establish his true address?

Formation

Following the other thread and from what I understand the person in question produced a student id to confirm his identity and then 3 inspectors surrounded him and insisted that he produce his social card having seen it in the wallet while he removed his student id and took a note of his pps number without asking his permission.

MadsL

Formation wrote: »

Following the other thread and from what I understand the person in question produced a student id to confirm his identity and then 3 inspectors surrounded him and insisted that he produce his social card having seen it in the wallet while he removed his student id and took a note of his pps number without asking his permission.

My understanding is they offered him the option to validate his identity at a Garda Station, so he handed over the social card instead. Permission would be implied if he gave it to them, no?

How is the number of inspectors relevant to their legal powers?

FreudianSlippers

Under the bye laws and the relevant legislation that governs them, the inspector has no power other than to take a name and address. Where the inspector believes this to be false (or it is not given at all) they only have the power to detain until a member of AGS arrives and validates the identity by means under their powers.

S.I. No. 394/1996 — Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1996

58. (a) Any person who is reasonably suspected by an authorised person of contravening or attempting to contravene these Bye-Laws shall upon being requested so to do give his name and address to an authorised person who is an inspector, driver or conductor in uniform or who produces evidence of identity.

(b) The person aforesaid shall on the request of the authorised person remain in the company of the authorised person pending verification of the name and address.
(c) where any such person refuses or fails to comply with a request under paragraph (a) or (b) of this Bye-Law or following such request such person gives a name and address which the authorised person has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading, such person may be detained by the authorised person until the arrival of a member of the Garda Siochana.

59. A member of the Garda Siochana may request a person-

(a) who has refused or failed to comply with a request under Bye-Law 58, or
(b) who following a request under that Bye-Law has given to the authorised person concerned a name and address that the latter has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, or
(c) detained pursuant to Bye-Law 58, to give to the member his name and address and if the person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address that the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may arrest the person without warrant.

60. (a) Any person who is reasonably suspected by an authorised person of contravening or of attempting to contravene these Bye-Laws may be removed from the vehicle by an authorised person or a member of the Garda Siochana acting on the request of such authorised person.

(b) In the exercise of the power conferred on him under paragraph (a) of this Bye-Law an authorised person or a member of the Garda Siochana may use such reasonable force as is necessary.

61. The provisions of these Bye-Laws except Bye-Laws 1,2, 14, 19, 38, 60, and 61 shall be penal provisions for the purpose of subsection (4) of section 22 of the Transport Act, 1950 , as amended by section 6 of the Transport Act, 1987 (No. 27 of 1987).

62. The Bus Átha Cliath-Dublin Bus Bye-Laws, 1990, made by the Board of Córas Iompair Éireann on the 4th day of April, 1990, and set out (as modified by the Minister) in the Schedule to the Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1990 ( S.I. No. 236 of 1990 ), are hereby revoked.

Formation

MadsL wrote: »

My understanding is they offered him the option to validate his identity at a Garda Station, so he handed over the social card instead. Permission would be implied if he gave it to them, no?

How is the number of inspectors relevant to their legal powers?

3 large men have you cornered on a bus demanding you produce a social card after you have already given them a picture id.

That would be intimidation in my book.

Baz_

Formation wrote: »

3 large men have you cornered on a bus demanding you produce a social card after you have already given them a picture id.

That would be intimidation in my book.

While normally 3 large men might intimidate someone, three dublin bus inspectors are hardly likely to start doling out punishment beatings, are they?

MadsL

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Under the bye laws and the relevant legislation that governs them, the inspector has no power other than to take a name and address. Where the inspector believes this to be false (or it is not given at all) they only have the power to detain until a member of AGS arrives and validates the identity by means under their powers.

S.I. No. 394/1996 — Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1996

I assume that it would be legal for them to frame suspicion in terms of "Have you anything that verifies your name and address" and give that person the option of showing it to them rather than involving the Guards?

Malown

Q9. What do I do if someone who is not entitled to use the PPS Number asks me for it?

A9. If you believe that a person asking for your PPS Number is not entitled to do so, do not give them your number until you have contacted Client Identity Services of the Department of Social and Family Affairs, Social Wefare Services, Shannon Lodge, Carrick-on-Shannon, County Leitrim (Telephone 01-7043281) for advice. You can also email Client Identity Services at cis@welfare.ie

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/faq.aspx

MadsL

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Under the bye laws and the relevant legislation that governs them, the inspector has no power other than to take a name and address. Where the inspector believes this to be false (or it is not given at all) they only have the power to detain until a member of AGS arrives and validates the identity by means under their powers.

S.I. No. 394/1996 — Córas Iompair Éireann Bye-Laws (Confirmation) Order, 1996

Does the Inspector need to give any justification that he/she believes it to be false?