New roundabout on The Quay

Rubberlegs

I'm undecided yet as to the benefits of this roundabout. Going from the Tower Hotel to the bridge a big truck would have a job getting around it. I drive a biggish car, and the first time I went round it I went " Sh******t!", the lane is quite narrow. Is the long term plan to take trucks off the Quay then?
Also going in the opposite direction, when you pass the Clock Tower there are still 2 lanes feeding into the one lane roundabout, so still the same scrabble to get into the right hand lane to get onto it. I had hoped this would be sorted.
I noticed also, it seems to make things a bit worse for pulling out onto the Quay from the sidestreet by the big post office. If the traffic is heavy from the Tower to the Bridge, you'd be sat there forever waiting to get out? Whereas before a good samaritan might slow down, and let you out. That can't be done on a roundabout. I saw a few cars backed up that sidestreet yesterday, the guy up front looked quite fed up!
All this, and people seem to be confused as how to indicate on it. I admit myself the first couple of times I didn't indicate I was heading on straight down the Quay, just completely forgot:o. But I suppose we'll get used to it, no choice but to..

Psychedelic

cococoady wrote: »

Is there an image / computerised drawing of what it will look like when it's finished do you know?

I think I saw an image in one of the local papers a good while ago, but I can''t find anything on the city council website.

Green Hornet

Cabaal wrote: »

A roundabout would solve the problem but I think to build a proper one would involve alot more space then they have available to them so either they'd have to knock a building or expand into the river.

Personally a easier solution would be to stop right turns when coming from ferrybank

Yeah, I agree. They should stop right turns at peak times. It's a complete disaster in the evenings there. Some people are accommodating and do their best to let the traffic by but others sit there blocking the other traffic without a care in the world.

Professey Chin

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yeah, I agree. They should stop right turns at peak times. It's a complete disaster in the evenings there. Some people are accommodating and do their best to let the traffic by but others sit there blocking the other traffic without a care in the world.

Or some just drive down the outer lane towards the bridge and at some point suddenly decide PARKING HERE NOW! /brakes and hazards(magical parking lights they are) on.
It should be legal to beat these people

longshanks

wmpdd3 wrote: »

It would be fine, if you could go up bridge street and join the road again after the park but its a rat run through the city, through residential and school areas. I drew a map for a person to avoid the quay the other day and when he looked at it, he said he'd just get the toll and go to ardmore instead of going from the m9 to dunmore.

The idea is that if you want to get to the Dunmore road from across the bridge you don't come through the city at all.
Use the new bridge to get to the outer ring road and cut out the 'residential/school area ratrun'. People would rather sit in a traffic jam though, than pay the toll.

Professey Chin

longshanks wrote: »

The idea is that if you want to get to the Dunmore road from across the bridge you don't come through the city at all.
Use the new bridge to get to the outer ring road and cut out the 'residential/school area ratrun'. People would rather sit in a traffic jam though, than pay the toll.

Doesnt make any sense to use the toll for going to the Dunmore road still unless its heavy rush hour. Using the bypass is double the distance

longshanks

I'm talking about in general, cut the city out of journeys from eg. Cork road to lets say New Ross, South Kilkenny to areas outside city centre, and vice versa. There is a lot of traffic on the quay needlessly, mostly out of old habits or refusal to pay the toll.

JPA

longshanks wrote: »

I'm talking about in general, cut the city out of journeys from eg. Cork road to lets say New Ross, South Kilkenny to areas outside city centre, and vice versa. There is a lot of traffic on the quay needlessly, mostly out of old habits or refusal to pay the toll.

That would be some waste of money in terms of petrol and the toll itself. And unless the traffic was very heavy it would not be quicker.

wmpdd3

The guy was a tourist, last time he went down the quay was 5 years ago and i had spent 20mins stuck on the quay the day before. When he saw the route through town on the map he just decided to take the easy option, id do the same in cork for example.

Dunmoreroader

I agree with it in principle; slow down traffic, divert the trucks, pedestrian friendly, back to single lane from the current double lane chicken run from the Clock Tower(will I go left or right?).
However, it looks badly designed if busses are having to back up to get through it. Maybe they are going to shave a piece off the corner of the path in front of the GPO? I hope the finished article sorts it all out because otherwise it's a dogs dinner of a roundabout.

hardybuck

longshanks wrote: »

The idea is that if you want to get to the Dunmore road from across the bridge you don't come through the city at all.
Use the new bridge to get to the outer ring road and cut out the 'residential/school area ratrun'. People would rather sit in a traffic jam though, than pay the toll.

Are you mad!? That route would be at least double the distance and take far longer for most if not all times of day.

The idea of a bypass is to remove heavy vehicles from passing through the city centre, reduce heavy vehicle noise, and to improve traffic flow by providing traffic which is passing through Waterford an alternative route.

There should have been a river crossing built up river in the 1990's to allow for the development of the Dunmore Road, but alas this isn't an option today.

Dum_Dum

My view is the City needed a second river crossing in the city centre. However, the government didn't want to pay for it, even at the height of the false boom.

The only way forward in their minds would be a tolled crossing; and that would only work at some distance from the existing Rice bridge. Hence an empty toll bridge in the wrong place.

Cabaal

Dum_Dum wrote: »

My view is the City needed a second river crossing in the city centre. However, the government didn't want to pay for it, even at the height of the false boom.

The only way forward in their minds would be a tolled crossing; and that would only work at some distance from the existing Rice bridge. Hence an empty toll bridge in the wrong place.[/QUOTE]

Nonsense,
The only way you could tell if Waterford needs a second bridge is to build a bypass and remove all the HGV and non-Waterford traffic out of the city centre.

They built the bypass (which was needed) and people still don't use it so its still very hard to judge things.

The new bridge isn't in the wrong place at all, its part of a by-pass...its job is to by-pass the city completely. It does that.

Until people that are not actually going into Waterford City are forced to use the alternative route there's no way of knowing if Waterford actually needs a second bridge

lassykk

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

lassykk wrote: »

No I think you will find it's a way of creating complete gridlock, mayhem and increase the number of accidents on the quay.

Whoever came up with the retarded idea should be made travel through it repeatedly every day during rush hour and then they should be made fix it at their expense.

Makes my blood boil how idiots get positions of power

Why? itll take getting used to but I think it will work out much better in the end.
People here dont know how to use 2 lanes. Constantly parking in one or driving down hovering in both. Single wider lanes make more sense. The roundabouts will make getting onto the quay easier. I drive on the quay almost everyday and cant wait for it to be finished although the delays have caused hell.

Sorry didn't get a chance to reply to this before now.

Well as I see it the roundabout is now operational. It doesn't look finished but it is functioning as a roundabout.

I can't agree with you that it will work out better in the end as traffic volumes are after getting worse. Coming down the Dunmore Road to the junction at the tower hotel in the evenings has gotten slower than ever before. It was already a bottleneck for traffic and now they have made it worse. I can't see how that will ever work out better.

The dangers I see in the morning when one lane just ends abruptly as you come down the quay towards the roundabout (from the bridge side) has already caused at least one accident and probably many more. I don't know if that is the finished article but it just reeks of stupidity.

Professey Chin

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Most of the bottlenecks Ive seen are caused by drivers getting confused and trying to change lanes/slowing suddenly/turning across the other lanes to go up side streets (or in some cases just being crap drivers and not realising other cars are on the road)
That lane doesnt end abrubtly. Theres signs on the quay indicating it is going to end soon but people just dont pay attention or just think they can jump ahead of traffic at the very end. And its all going to be a single lane when finished, only going to 2 lanes for people turning off.

lassykk

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

lassykk wrote: »

Sorry didn't get a chance to reply to this before now.

Well as I see it the roundabout is now operational. It doesn't look finished but it is functioning as a roundabout.

I can't agree with you that it will work out better in the end as traffic volumes are after getting worse. Coming down the Dunmore Road to the junction at the tower hotel in the evenings has gotten slower than ever before. It was already a bottleneck for traffic and now they have made it worse. I can't see how that will ever work out better.

The dangers I see in the morning when one lane just ends abruptly as you come down the quay towards the roundabout (from the bridge side) has already caused at least one accident and probably many more. I don't know if that is the finished article but it just reeks of stupidity.

Most of the bottlenecks Ive seen are caused by drivers getting confused and trying to change lanes/slowing suddenly/turning across the other lanes to go up side streets (or in some cases just being crap drivers and not realising other cars are on the road)
That lane doesnt end abrubtly. Theres signs on the quay indicating it is going to end soon but people just dont pay attention or just think they can jump ahead of traffic at the very end. And its all going to be a single lane when finished, only going to 2 lanes for people turning off.

The problem as I see it is that the roundabout is slowing down the flow of traffic which is resulting the traffic backing up and people not being able to get through the lights at the tower hotel when coming from the Dunmore Road. The only reason for this is the new roundabout (and as you state crap drivers incapable of handling a roundabout) but I would much prefer the roundabout wasn't there and then the problem wouldn't arise.

I think my problem with the lane ending abruptly will be rectified when the lanes are sorted out. I still think one lane the length of the quay is a disaster as during rush hour both lanes are full and with the new layout everyone will have to fit into one lane instead. I do appreciate that people use the inner lane at the moment as a parking space and that is annoying but to take away this lane completely will definitely hamper traffic flow.

Either way I reckon we differ in our opinions on the merits of the roundabout but I just wanted to reply to your previous response to my comment.

Lamph

The solution here is a bridge at or near the Reginalds Tower end of the quay.
But they needed to have that built first, and then put in those dodgy roundabouts...

...Without the extra bridge, the quay is too congested to handle the changes.

wmpdd3

We have no hope of a second river crossing at the tower as it would have to be another lifting span bridge or it would make rice bridge redundant.
The danger going down the quay is when everyone is in the right hand lane, the correst lane and one person decides to indicate right, the rest of the queue clammers for the left lane, whether its occupied or not.
In term of delivering the green route, i was offered a bike to cycyle from ferrybank to ardkeen everyday. Not a hope, too dangerous. Between the quay and the cycle lane/car park on the dunmore rd, there is no safe way to cycle through the city.

Max Powers

wmpdd3 wrote: »

We have no hope of a second river crossing at the tower as it would have to be another lifting span bridge or it would make rice bridge redundant.
The danger going down the quay is when everyone is in the right hand lane, the correst lane and one person decides to indicate right, the rest of the queue clammers for the left lane, whether its occupied or not.
In term of delivering the green route, i was offered a bike to cycyle from ferrybank to ardkeen everyday. Not a hope, too dangerous. Between the quay and the cycle lane/car park on the dunmore rd, there is no safe way to cycle through the city.

Its safe enough to cycle, yes there is bad drivers out there like across all of Ireland but its no more dangerous than cycling around dublin or Cork. Once you are using your cop on, not flying it, are well lit up etc, you will be fine.

CardBordWindow

wmpdd3 wrote: »

We have no hope of a second river crossing at the tower as it would have to be another lifting span bridge or it would make rice bridge redundant.
The danger going down the quay is when everyone is in the right hand lane, the correst lane and one person decides to indicate right, the rest of the queue clammers for the left lane, whether its occupied or not.
In term of delivering the green route, i was offered a bike to cycyle from ferrybank to ardkeen everyday. Not a hope, too dangerous. Between the quay and the cycle lane/car park on the dunmore rd, there is no safe way to cycle through the city.

I have to disagree with you there. I cycle to work everyday (from Grannagh out to the estate) and don't find it dangerous. The OH lives on the dunmore road, and I find that section fine too. The cycle lane is rarely blocked (at least when i'm on it) and if it is, I just indicate that I'm moving out, and I find that the traffic behind will slow.
There are some bad drivers on the road, but the only time I've had issues are on roadabouts. Once you keep an eye and an ear out, cycling around this city is grand. (if only the weather would improve!)

cococoady

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sure that's the whole idea for the roundabouts.
They want to make the quay more user friendly for pedestrians / cyclists

lassykk

cococoady wrote: »

lassykk wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that the roundabout is slowing down the flow of traffic which is resulting the traffic backing up and people not being able to get through the lights at the tower hotel when coming from the Dunmore Road. The only reason for this is the new roundabout (and as you state crap drivers incapable of handling a roundabout) but I would much prefer the roundabout wasn't there and then the problem wouldn't arise.

I think my problem with the lane ending abruptly will be rectified when the lanes are sorted out. I still think one lane the length of the quay is a disaster as during rush hour both lanes are full and with the new layout everyone will have to fit into one lane instead. I do appreciate that people use the inner lane at the moment as a parking space and that is annoying but to take away this lane completely will definitely hamper traffic flow.

Either way I reckon we differ in our opinions on the merits of the roundabout but I just wanted to reply to your previous response to my comment.

Sure that's the whole idea for the roundabouts.
They want to make the quay more user friendly for pedestrians / cyclists

But to what end... More people drive than cycle... It seems illogical to make it more appealing to cyclists by creating traffic jams which effect the majority of people. My job doesn't allow for cycling so I wouldn't have the option to change my mode of transport, even if I wanted to.

How is it more beneficial to pedestrians? The pedestrian crossings on the quay I have no problem with. I assume the majority of pedestrians crossing the quay cross around the clock tower where there are pedestrian lights too. I don't think speed is a major issue on the quay so slowing down the flow of traffic is hardly a major concern for pedestrians either.

fricatus

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The logic of reducing road capacity (whether you agree with it or not) is that by creating traffic jams, those who can (not including you) will switch to cycling/walking/bus or take an alternative route, thereby leaving the roads relatively clearer for people like you who need their car.

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Gotta disagree with you there. I'm surprised, given what I see every day, that someone isn't killed or injured on the Quay most weeks!

Everyone is at fault: pedestrians just jaywalk with gay abandon, sometimes on the phone, often without looking, trusting to their "guardian angel" that they won't be mashed by an artic. They cross absolutely everywhere: people will come out of a shop on the Quay and just try to cross right there, even though there's a pedestrian crossing 10 metres away.

Car drivers on the Quay (encouraged by the two lanes) are more interested in overtaking the "slow" guy (who's sticking to the speed limit) and getting through the lights, than looking where they're going. There are all manner of u-turns, and people forcing their way out of side streets. You get people in SUVs stopping in the "fast" lane to let someone cross, while the guy in the "slow" lane keeps going and nearly kills the pedestrian, whom he didn't see behind the SUV.

They really need to sort it out, which is why I'm all in favour of slowing traffic right down to a crawl, even though I use the Quay every day.

lassykk

fricatus wrote: »

lassykk wrote: »

But to what end... More people drive than cycle... It seems illogical to make it more appealing to cyclists by creating traffic jams which effect the majority of people. My job doesn't allow for cycling so I wouldn't have the option to change my mode of transport, even if I wanted to.

The logic of reducing road capacity (whether you agree with it or not) is that by creating traffic jams, those who can (not including you) will switch to cycling/walking/bus or take an alternative route, thereby leaving the roads relatively clearer for people like you who need their car.

lassykk wrote: »

I assume the majority of pedestrians crossing the quay cross around the clock tower where there are pedestrian lights too. I don't think speed is a major issue on the quay so slowing down the flow of traffic is hardly a major concern for pedestrians either.

Gotta disagree with you there. I'm surprised, given what I see every day, that someone isn't killed or injured on the Quay most weeks!

Everyone is at fault: pedestrians just jaywalk with gay abandon, sometimes on the phone, often without looking, trusting to their "guardian angel" that they won't be mashed by an artic. They cross absolutely everywhere: people will come out of a shop on the Quay and just try to cross right there, even though there's a pedestrian crossing 10 metres away.

Car drivers on the Quay (encouraged by the two lanes) are more interested in overtaking the "slow" guy (who's sticking to the speed limit) and getting through the lights, than looking where they're going. There are all manner of u-turns, and people forcing their way out of side streets. You get people in SUVs stopping in the "fast" lane to let someone cross, while the guy in the "slow" lane keeps going and nearly kills the pedestrian, whom he didn't see behind the SUV.

They really need to sort it out, which is why I'm all in favour of slowing traffic right down to a crawl, even though I use the Quay every day.

I acknowledge your (and obviously the planners) logic in your first point but I just don't like or agree with the logic but as stated earlier when responding to another post I know my opinion appears to be in the minority on this thread. I don't think enough people will switch to alternative modes of transport to make this a success in any way for traffic management.

In relation to your second point I do agree that there is mayhem on the quays and that this new layout will alleviate it the problem to a certain extent but I don't see why we should provide additional measures to protect pedestrians who blatantly take their lives in their hands by crossing wherever they see fit. If they all crossed at the 5 designated spots (Tower Hotel, Plaza, Clock Tower, Bus Station & Bridge) on the quay instead of jay walking then there wouldn't be this issue. For the record I am no saint in this regard and would cross at any point on the quay (but would take care doing so) but I don't expect measures to be put in place to protect me from my own stupidity by doing so.

I guess I'm just being selfish wanting to get home as quickly as possible after a day working and increasing the time I spend sitting in traffic for a roundabout I can see no purpose to is just something that irritates me.

hardybuck

Obviously Waterford is far too reliant on cars. If you were going to Dublin city centre, you wouldn't even consider driving for the vast majority of the day.

If you were trying to cross Dublin now, you wouldn't have too much bother, but only because people leave their cars at home. Between cycling and public transport people have excellent alternatives, and that is a bit of a Catch - 22 for cities. Without the services people don't have the option of using them, and without good reason to use them (traffic, lack of parking etc.) people would probably just drive.

The bus network in Waterford appears to be a joke to me. I've never used it. I can't believe that you can't hop on a bus from the Dunmore Road to WIT or the Industrial Estate on the Cork Road. I can't believe there are bo buses on Sundays. I can't believe that there aren't Park and Ride Services on the approaches to the city, regularly serviced with shuttle buses. While there have been improvements in cycle lanes, there is still a way to go in that area.

So, Waterford City Council need to prioritise a lot of the above before they pour money into re-designing the roads on the Quay. Creating traffic jams and car crashes isn't the answer to reducing people's reliance on cars.

deisemum

The bus service from the Dunmore Road into the city centre is very unreliable so not worth wasting your time waiting for it to turn up whenever the driver feels like it. Add the disgusting smell of rotten manky crotch from the seats is enough for me to stick with using my car.

The council should put reliable clean public transport in place if they want to reduce traffic.

Dum_Dum

deisemum wrote: »

The bus service from the Dunmore Road into the city centre is very unreliable so not worth wasting your time waiting for it to turn up whenever the driver feels like it. Add the disgusting smell of rotten manky crotch from the seats is enough for me to stick with using my car.

Also frequency has been reduced in recent months; I understand there is now no evening service Mon to Thurs on the non-CIE service.

wmpdd3

CardBordWindow wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there. I cycle to work everyday (from Grannagh out to the estate) and don't find it dangerous. The OH lives on the dunmore road, and I find that section fine too. The cycle lane is rarely blocked (at least when i'm on it) and if it is, I just indicate that I'm moving out, and I find that the traffic behind will slow.
There are some bad drivers on the road, but the only time I've had issues are on roadabouts. Once you keep an eye and an ear out, cycling around this city is grand. (if only the weather would improve!)

Thats great to hear, I really might try it before the weather gets worse.

Have to say going down the quay went pretty smoothly today, as in, noone tried to turn right at City Square.

Professey Chin

Didnt wanna start a new thread since its partially related.
Is it just me or is there suddenly road works all over the city the last couple of weeks?
Ive lost count how many little projects I seem to be running into/getting caught at

deisemum

The traffic is a lot worse lately. I dread to think what it will be like next week when the schools are back after the holidays.