Buying DDR 3

Walker34

Hi,
I am looking at buying 16gb of DDR3 for a new build and am assuming that I should buy as few dims as possible,i.e. 2x8 rather than 4x4, and as high a speed as I can get i.e. 2133MHz. Is this a safe assumption or are there pitfalls.? Future proofing is the goal. Tia John

JackieChan

2x8 is better as it leaves 2 spare DIMM slots if you decided to add more ram in the future. Also you will hear that its easier on the memory controller only having to deal with two sticks instead of 4- I'm not sure if this is urban legend or real.
The only negative is that it generally costs a few euro more for 2x8gb than 4x4gb

Depending on what you're using the computer for the DDR speeds don't really matter all that much-this is from what I've read but I'm sure it can make a difference in certain circumstances.

Walker34

Thanks JC ,
its mainly for gaming, what drives the consumer end of hardware sales I'm sure.John

Monotype

I agree with Jackie, best to go for two sticks.

I wouldn't over-invest in speed unless it's not much more. Fast speed will make a bit of difference in AMD systems and overclocked Intel systems and a lot of difference with AMD's APUs. For non-overclocked Intel systems, there's very little gain to be had from faster RAM.

JackieChan

Here is a good link I read previously on memory scaling tests done on original i7

A paragraph from the Conclusions page

The memory industry, which typically focuses on offering faster (and more expensive) memory products, must find these results rather annoying—there is simply very little benefit to fast DDR3 memory on a fast processor such as the Intel Core i7-975. More than ever, premium RAM can be compared to a high-end sports car: it may provide better performance, but the benefit in everyday life is often very limited.

Edit: This ties in particularly with Monotypes last sentence above.

Monotype

That's two generations old though.

Here's some on Sandy Bridge:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/sandy-bridge-ddr3_7.html#sect0
and on Ivy Bridge (down at the end are the gaming benchmarks):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/ivy-bridge-ddr3_4.html

The Ivy Bridge results are using an overclocked CPU @ 4.5GHz. The Sandy Bridge results show that there's bigger differences in RAM speeds when the system is overclocked.

The gains are really only when you overclock. Other sites showed very little gains from RAM speed increases and I think it was because the didn't test it with overclocked CPUs. Of course, different programs will benefit varying amounts too.
I'd go for 1600MHz RAM most of the time or 1333MHz if you're on a tight budget. Or faster if it's a good deal, of course.

Procrastastudy

I feel the need to pontificate on 'future proofing'. Future proofing doesn't mean buying the best - it means buying the best value most upgradeable components. The likelihood is by the time you get round to changing your mobo you'll need DDR4/5 - unless you know you will change it fairly soon and you already have the change in mind.

My RAM is cheap ass Samsung stuff rated for 1333 tops - its currently running at 2000Mhz. If you buy some decent 1600Mhz RAM you'll probably be able to get 2133Mhz out of it if you ever need to. Best thing to do is pick your supplier then have a look at what the offer and then look up reviews/youtube to see whats being said about it. You might be surprised - sometimes the more expensive stuff isn't as good and the mid-range stuff.

Walker34

Thanks for the info folks.....its appreciated. One last question/opinion.....I am thinking of basing the system I plan to build around the upgrade kit offered by Dabs at this link

http://www.dabs.ie/products/asus-intel-ultimate-bundle--includes-p9x79-pro-motherboard--intel-core-i7-3930k---16gb-ddr3--7VJJ.html?src=3

Its expensive at €938 but hopefully will last me 5 or more years.What do you guys think.....is it overkill for a gaming system, would a lower spec system be as good.? Are there better kits available or am I better to just buy seperate components.?
Tia John

Procrastastudy

Thats a classic example of spending too much money rather than buying a system that is future proof. Fill in the wee form in the FAQ for more info but I'll assume you have a Case, PSU - drives and a retail OS (OEM OSes can't be installed on a new Mobo)

Item|Price
16GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800U CL11-11-11-30|€85.77
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€134.39
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€219.38
Noctua NH-D14, Sockel AM2/AM2+/AM3/775/1366/1155/1156|€67.99
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€526.52

That leaves you €400 to spend on a GPU and SSD - and the price include a cooler which you will need if you are overclocking (No point buying a -K CPU if you are not). The kit you are looking at from Dabs would offer you absolutely no longer life span than the build above and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference is any games.

NB That Kit is Socket 2011 - You would really need to be doing high end video editing work (semi-professional stuff) and want to spend €1000+ of the toher components to make it worthwhile - happy (very) to try and spec you a 2 - 3K system

Procrastastudy

Item|Price
16GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800U CL11-11-11-30|€85.77
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€134.39
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€219.38
Noctua NH-D14, Sockel AM2/AM2+/AM3/775/1366/1155/1156|€67.99
BitFenix Merc Beta|€33.04
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€42.20
HIS HD 7850 GDDR5 1024MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP|€209.00
Samsung SSD 830 128GB SATA 6GB's Paper Box|€101.47
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€912.23

There's an entire build (inc GPU and SSD) for less than that upgrade kit, sans HDD and Optical drive which I assume you have - if you let us know what you currently have we can put together a more targeted upgrade.

BTW the board I've speced is a multi GPU board (as per the Dabs Kit) - unless you want to spend €1500 plus or know you will go dual card in the future there really is no need - cutting the cost down. If you don't mind going with a Sandybridge 2500K (no difference other than some enthusiast stuff) you can bring the price down even more. Also 8GB RAM is more than enough for most users.

Walker34

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Item|Price
16GB-Kit Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800U CL11-11-11-30|€85.77
ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Sockel 1155, ATX|€134.39
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€219.38
Noctua NH-D14, Sockel AM2/AM2+/AM3/775/1366/1155/1156|€67.99
BitFenix Merc Beta|€33.04
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 450W|€42.20
HIS HD 7850 GDDR5 1024MB DVI/HDMI/2xMini DP|€209.00
Samsung SSD 830 128GB SATA 6GB's Paper Box|€101.47
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€912.23

There's an entire build (inc GPU and SSD) for less than that upgrade kit, sans HDD and Optical drive which I assume you have - if you let us know what you currently have we can put together a more targeted upgrade.

BTW the board I've speced is a multi GPU board (as per the Dabs Kit) - unless you want to spend €1500 plus or know you will go dual card in the future there really is no need - cutting the cost down. If you don't mind going with a Sandybridge 2500K (no difference other than some enthusiast stuff) you can bring the price down even more. Also 8GB RAM is more than enough for most users.

Thanks m8,
I have two kids who love gaming and they have a pc each which I built back......in 2009 or 10. One is an Intel Q9450 (quad core) and the other is an E8450(dual core). Both are overclocked to the max, and have Antec 900 cased with Antec Kuhler H20 coolers. I get into building a pc,..... do it,.... and within 2 weeks have completely forgotten the details.:-{.

The GPUs are 6870s which are prolly OK for the present.The PSUs are 650 and 700 watt units which I might just get away with.I might throw in a 100gb ssd on each of them, but don't see it as an priority. The rest of the components are SATA terabyte hard disks, screens,mice and keyboards which are good.
I`m upgrading them hoping to outrun the Intel posse which have been on my case since 1995.......well that's my excuse anyways.

Id like to get a 3930K.......but that would mean bread and water for a month at leas if not 2,........ and back to school days are fast approaching which costs a fortune. What could I do for say €800 with both pcs , other than scrap/sell them and start again.

Procrastastudy

Walker34 wrote: »

Thanks m8,
I have two kids who love gaming and they have a pc each which I built back......in 2009 or 10. One is an Intel Q9450 (quad core) and the other is an E8450(dual core). Both are overclocked to the max, and have Antec 900 cased with Antec Kuhler H20 coolers. I get into building a pc,..... do it,.... and within 2 weeks have completely forgotten the details.:-{.

The GPUs are 6870s which are prolly OK for the present.The PSUs are 650 and 700 watt units which I might just get away with.I might throw in a 100gb ssd on each of them, but don't see it as an priority. The rest of the components are SATA terabyte hard disks, screens,mice and keyboards which are good.
I`m upgrading them hoping to outrun the Intel posse which have been on my case since 1995.......well that's my excuse anyways.

Id like to get a 3830K.......but that would mean bread and water for a month at leas if not 2,........ and back to school days are fast approaching which costs a fortune. What could I do for say €800 with both pcs , other than scrap/sell them and start again.

If I'm understanding you correctly you're looking to upgrade these machines?

The quad core is grand imo for a while yet. I'd pull the ram out of the dual core - stick it in the quad core machine and live with that one for a year. As fot the dual core I'd go with a 2500K tray - 8GB RAM and a Asrock Z77 Pro3 - anything over that is massive over kill. If you are going to spend that money I'd do identical upgrades to both machines to save any arguments!

Power consumption is actually going down so the PSUs you have will be fine - overkill in fact.

Item|Price
Intel Core i5-2500K Tray, LGA1155|€188.00
8GB-Kit G-Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9|€44.08
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€91.34
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€342.41

You have a good case and PSU absolutley no need to scrap the machines. Only think I probably would have done is sold off the bits from the dual core machine before now and upgraded it. Quadcore is probably just about at the selling stage as are the 6870 - that said they will both go for another year at least (with pretty good performance).

Once you've a good case, PSU and drives your golden - just replace the GPU every so often and flog them on adverts.ie - same (but less often probably) with the Mobo, RAM and CPU.

NB - CPU coolers might need new backplates.

Walker34

Hi,
That sounds like an plan......The Antec Khulers came with a range of adapter which go to i7, and I have them stored for upgrade purposes. Why the Z77 as opposed to the X79, is it purely on cost.? SATA-6 and USB3 are becoming more common on motherboards.......is that a good enough reason for going for X79, or are they overkill also. I`m not sure if the need for USB-3 or SATA-6 is here or even imminent yet.

Eboggles

Walker34 wrote: »

Hi,
That sounds like an plan......The Antec Khulers came with a range of adapter which go to i7, and I have them stored for upgrade purposes. Why the Z77 as opposed to the X79, is it purely on cost.? SATA-6 and USB3 are becoming more common on motherboards.......is that a good enough reason for going for X79, or are they overkill also. I`m not sure if the need for USB-3 or SATA-6 is here or even imminent yet.

SATA 6GB/S and USB 3.0 both feature on the Z77 chipset, and normally there's no real reason to get a 3930k. The money saved would be put to good use by upgrading your graphics card, which is where you'll see a difference in gaming.

Procrastastudy

There would be very little point in SATA III on HDDs but they are on the Z77 - the i7 comes in several sockets the 3930K is sockey 2011 so the coolers may not fit.

A run down on CPUs

2500K - Sandybridge - unlocked SKU - PCIe 2.x. Great processor where SLI isnt being used - absolutely fine where it is currently

3570K - Ivybridge - unlocked SKU - PCI 3.0 - worth it if you are going to go SLI as PCI 3.0 has more bandwidth - runs hotter due to a design 'feature' basically crappy thermal interface.

3770K - Ivybridge unlocked i7 - for video editing and very intensive applications - would be no faster than a i5 in 80% of applications

3930K - Sandybridge-E processor for socket 2011 - the only advantage of this set up is if you are spending around €1200 on GPUs and need 40 lanes of PCIe.

Walker34

That`s a useful synopsis, without getting into Ticks or Tock`s.........now I`m leaning more towards the i5. Thanks for the help folks.

Monotype

You'd want a very good reason to spend money on a socket 2011 board. 1155 has all the main good features and with PCI-E 3, you won't be short on bandwidth for a long time.

650 and 700W is very high for PSUs in builds like this. More importantly, you need to check the quality of them.