Oliver Cromwell: Son Of A Bitch

golden lane

juan.kerr wrote: »

I worked in Huntingdon in England for a little bit. They were very proud of the fact it was his birthplace. They couldn't understand why we Irish weren't as enthusiastic about him.

nothing else thewre to be proud of.........

Curly Judge

karma_ wrote: »

It's a stretch to call her Irish in fairness.

I bet if she was male and a good footballer we wouldn't be quite so snooty!

MadsL

mathepac wrote: »

The term Brit is racist? You really need to stay in more as it's been used constantly all week by the Olympic commentators employed by the British Broadcasting Corporation.

Way to miss the point. I was referring more to the massive dimensions of the extremely large brush laden with tar with which you painted 62 million people with one single viewpoint on Oliver Cromwell whilst failing to see the irony of doing that and calling someone a racist at the same time. Well done, terrific effort. Probably a technical factor of 14.8 - I'd score you at 13.1, few deductions for not getting it the first time.

If you still don't get that, have someone explain it to you.

Duckworth_Luas

golden lane wrote: »

this afternoon in a small town in somerset in the south west of england......

i have asked 22 people....who was oliver cromwell......

it seems from the blank stares and the silly guesses....that he is not a well known historical figure in these parts.....

Wow! I would have considered him as one of the three most influential people in English history! Are the English really that ignorant?

MadsL

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Wow! I would have considered him as one of the three most influential people in English history! Are the English really that ignorant?

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Bold. Word. Somerset.

Duckworth_Luas

MadsL wrote: »

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Bold. Word. Somerset.

Wosh! Way over your head pal!

golden lane

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Wow! I would have considered him as one of the three most influential people in English history! Are the English really that ignorant?

i don't think ignorant is the word.......just, who cares about history...

my poll was.....a few friends, people at a jumble sale and a few in the local shop.....

for many years i lived in a village in cambridgeshire.......i was part of the local pub quiz team.....

the other members were....a head schoolteacher, tax inspector, chain store shop manager, cambridge don (expert on the arctic and antarctic exploration), and a college procurer (whatever the college needed, he got it)....and me of course (a dublin man)...

whenever a history question was asked......they all looked in my direction for the answer...

archer22

golden lane wrote: »

this afternoon in a small town in somerset in the south west of england......

i have asked 22 people....who was oliver cromwell......

it seems from the blank stares and the silly guesses....that he is not a well known historical figure in these parts.....

Had they just jumped out of the back of a lorry !

Duckworth_Luas

golden lane wrote: »

i don't think ignorant is the word.......just, who cares about history...

Ignorant is the word then!

golden lane

archer22 wrote: »

Had they just jumped out of the back of a lorry !

no, out of coal mines.....

ex coal mining area........nobody seems to be interested in the past..

mrduffy

Did 1916 not follow his views in the republic idea and to this day as it is the only part of these isles that is a republic. At the time we were monarchists rich and poor suffer because of his republic ideas we were against. Trying to hold out for a monarchy.

Fratton Fred

mrduffy wrote: »

Did 1916 not follow his views in the republic idea and to this day as it is the only part of these isles that is a republic. At the time we were monarchists rich and poor suffer because of his republic ideas we were against. Trying to hold out for a monarchy.

There's also the small matter of why he came to Ireland in the first place.

Duckworth_Luas

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There's also the small matter of why he came to Ireland in the first place.

He came to spread love and all kinds of everything! Surely a man who caused the Gaelic-Irish and the Anglo-Irish to coalesce to fight against him must have been a hero?

golden lane

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Ignorant is the word then!

clever would be more appropriate.......clever enough to to get on with their lives without reference to a historical irrelevence.....

mrduffy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There's also the small matter of why he came to Ireland in the first place.

we were the last patch of the monarchy at the time to hold out for a fight to save a king's authority instead of a republic way of government.

grenache

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Its all very well being a revisionist Irish man, but in fact people are "educated" more by their surrounding environments and culture - now Anglo-American in Ireland - than school. The discourse on Ireland, or Catholicism, is therefore based on English speaking ideologies. And to the English, and most English speakers, he was OK.

A good example of English speaking ideologies dominating the discourse is the rants about the Iquisition. As Wibbs continutally points out it has been massively overestimated. But it will be referenced time and time and time again in Atheist forums, as much here as there. It is in the mother's milk of English speakers - unlike, say, the far more recent 30,000 killed in the Mau Mau rebellion. Far more people. Far more recent. Far more forgotten.

And we hear about the crusades, the nasty crusaders - English/Norman more than Irish, as it happens - taking over Jerusalem and killing thousands. This is an anti-Catholic story.

Here is a story about the bombardment and invasion of Alexandria in 1882 - another thing that has dropped down the memory hole. The city, one of the the ancient world's most amazing, was levelled. Just one example.

So, too with Cromwell. He did in fact have a plan for the ethnic cleansing in Ireland, and he did in fact try and implement it. Had it worked we would be as numerous in Ireland as the Native Americans in Chicago. Why forget? English speaking hegememony.

Nail on the head! An all round brilliant post.

Colmustard

Britain have influenced world culture and the rights of man in so many ways, but the most important but not in order were

1 The magna Carte
2 The bill of rights
3 The bill of abolition
4 Oliver Cromwell.

paddyandy

Ireland has been invaded a number of times without muskets or swords .

Sunnyisland

paddy andy wrote: »

Ireland has been invaded a number of times without muskets or swords .

Examples and explain please there paddy andy

paddyandy

Most people would'nt recognise an Invasion and if you need to ask then you don't deserve to know .

AnonoBoy

paddyandy wrote: »

Most people would'nt recognise an Invasion and if you need to ask then you don't deserve to know .

Invaded by liberals?

paddyandy

When you have worked in the Industries that i have you learn that the world is made up mostly of Fools .

AnonoBoy

paddyandy wrote: »

When you have worked in the Industries that i have you learn that the world is made up mostly of Fools .

What are you rabbiting on about?

Sunnyisland

paddy andy wrote: »

Ireland has been invaded a number of times without muskets or swords .

paddy andy wrote: »

Most people wouldn't recognise an Invasion and if you need to ask then you don't deserve to know .

Don't be posting complete crap, explain what you meant by above or go over to the conspiracy thread.

Fratton Fred

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

He came to spread love and all kinds of everything! Surely a man who caused the Gaelic-Irish and the Anglo-Irish to coalesce to fight against him must have been a hero?

They were united before Cromwell came to Ireland. it is because they united that parliament asked Cromwell to invade.

Although there is perhaps a too lenient view of Cromwell in England, the opposite is also probably true in Ireland. His conquest is just seen as a black and white chapter in the 800 years of oppression.

He is an interesting character to read about. http://www.cromwell.hist.cam.ac.uk/

mrduffy

Cromwell brought republicanism to ireland and with republicanism came more government more law and order and more taxes. Before republicanism, I do believe the lords had the craic as well as the ordinary folk as taxes were low and government non existent. After republicanism greed took over with heavy taxes and enforcement.

Cú Giobach

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Although there is perhaps a too lenient view of Cromwell in England, the opposite is also probably true in Ireland.

Since his arrival on these shores was indeed the start of such a wonderful and glorious age for the vast majority of people on this island, how such a negative "race memory" of him got imprinted is utterly unfathomable.

Galwayguy35

golden lane wrote: »

i don't think ignorant is the word.......just, who cares about history...

my poll was.....a few friends, people at a jumble sale and a few in the local shop.....

for many years i lived in a village in cambridgeshire.......i was part of the local pub quiz team.....

the other members were....a head schoolteacher, tax inspector, chain store shop manager, cambridge don (expert on the arctic and antarctic exploration), and a college procurer (whatever the college needed, he got it)....and me of course (a dublin man)...

whenever a history question was asked......they all looked in my direction for the answer...

So a teacher didn't know a history question?
Says a lot about the British education system...

Fratton Fred

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So a teacher didn't know a history question?
Says a lot about the British education system...

Apparantly Darragh O'Briain quoted to his English wife about how wonderful the Irish education is and how poor the English system is.

as she pointed out, the Irish system produced him, a clown and the English system produced her, a Brain Surgeon:D

Galwayguy35

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apparantly Darragh O'Briain quoted to his English wife about how wonderful the Irish education is and how poor the English system is.

as she pointed out, the Irish system produced him, a clown and the English system produced her, a Brain Surgeon:D

Always exceptions to the rule I suppose.

I find it strange though that most people wouldn't have at least a basic knowledge of the history of their country.

AnonoBoy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apparantly Darragh O'Briain quoted to his English wife about how wonderful the Irish education is and how poor the English system is.

as she pointed out, the Irish system produced him, a clown and the English system produced her, a Brain Surgeon:D

A clown with a degree in theoretical physics though.

Sunnyisland

Galway 35 wrote: »

Always exceptions to the rule I suppose.

I find it strange though that most people wouldn't have at least a basic knowledge of the history of their country.

You will find that an awful lot of people in an awful lot of countries don't have a basic history knowledge of there country,To busy living there lifes,

Unless that is if its involved in some sort of war/terrorism/invasion/freedom struggle for many years. imo.

ejmaztec

AnonoBoy wrote: »

A clown with a degree in theoretical physics though.

A perfect combination for a mad scientist bent on destroying the world.

golden lane

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So a teacher didn't know a history question?
Says a lot about the British education system...

what i'm saying is a teacher was not interested in history........actually he was a maths teacher.....and a very highly paid one......

i'm just trying to put over, the lack of interest in history that most british people have....imo

the cambridge don that i mentioned, was one of the worlds foremost authority on arctic and antarctic exploration.....and he had written books on the subject....but he seemed to have little interest in other historical subjects

of course there are many that are interested, just as i am.....

and as i sat in school in dublin.....i found i was one of a very few, who was interested in history....just as it seems to be in the uk....

Galwayguy35

realies wrote: »

You will find that an awful lot of people in an awful lot of countries don't have a basic history knowledge of there country,To busy living there lifes,

Unless that is if its involved in some sort of war/terrorism/invasion/freedom struggle for many years. imo.

Sure we are all living our lives but we also all went to school and you would imagine at least some of it would have remained in peoples brains.

Nodin

paddyandy wrote: »

Ireland has been invaded a number of times without muskets or swords .

The next time you feel the urge to complain about people not being 'srs', this will be flung at you.

paddyandy

Most people on this Island would'nt recognise an invader without a weapon .

Nodin

paddyandy wrote: »

Most people on this Island would'nt recognise an invader without a weapon .

Well, O Great One, why not enlighten us?

paddyandy

As i posted........you don't deserve.......