new mosque in clongriffin?

Miss Lockhart

There's already a muslim national school in Clonskeagh.

_blank_

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

Mr Simpson

Des wrote: »

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

I would imagine it will be a muslim school, theres an educate together about two minutes walk from the site.

John Mason

Seanchai wrote: »

From the article:

. Once they get these "rights" to a state-financed education this state will find it very, very, very hard to take them back.

who are "they"? and how is giving "them" rights going to bring society down

mattjack

Seanchai wrote: »

From the article:


This is not going to end well. Does this state ever learn from the disaster that is British policy in this area? Blind, utterly blind.

This is yet more evidence of the short sightedness of this state continuing its support for denominational education, a policy which itself is from the 1830s. Once they get these "rights" to a state-financed education this state will find it very, very, very hard to take them back.

The sooner all religion is taken out of all state-funded Irish schools and the Irish state assumes control of all schools which receive state funding the better.

Apart from the school is everything else ok with you ? the conference centre,pool,shopping centre etc

Dyr

Des wrote: »

...and it doesn't say it is going to be a religious school at all.

It could be an Educate Together, for example.

And i could be kosher :pac:

_blank_

OK, so let's say it is a Muslim school then, I accept that in all probability it will be.

So what? Do Muslim parents not have the right to choose to send their children to a Muslim school? Will it be state funded? Is there any indication that it will be?

Even if the state secularised all schools tomorrow, there is nothing stopping Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists of Big Flying Spaghetti Monsterists from setting up a privately funded school for adherents of their faith to attend, following the curriculum, but with an added religious class.

Dyr

Des wrote: »

following the curriculum, but with an added religious class.

And I'm kosher :pac:

subway

dearg lady wrote: »

It's over a year since I lived in Clongriffin, but the only time I remember traffic being really bad is early mornings, at Donaghmede roundabout, not even in Clongriffin itself. I think there's plans to replace it with a junction which will hopefully make it quicker to get through for anyone coming from Clongriffin.

you'll be pleased to know they have made a mess of it instead! pedestrian lights on 2 sides within yards of the roundabout exit (with more to come?) strange (unmarked) road narrowing on the donaghmede exit where I've seen a few cars drive right into the protruding kerb

in relation to the mosque/facilities, i think its a great idea. i live not far from there and have plenty of friends & family in the area and a bit of diversity & activity would not go amiss tbh. If they are using the entire wasteland, I'm sure adequate parking will be a requisitie.

there may be further issues with access, but if both ends are open and the calls to prayer in the evening or at weekends, it wont be comparable to the missing 2400 homes that never got built, including a superquinn that would easily see 5k customers in an afternoon or the civil service move that would have seen 10k(?) staff relocated there, never mind the total 80%(?) of businesses that have never opened.

flanzer

where's the exact site? Is it where the car park is for the Italian, across from the off licence? There so mush wasteland around there, it's unbelievable. This is a great move for the area should everything go to plan

AnalogueKid

There's also a Shia mosque in Milltown. The one in Clonskeagh is very nice I think.

Loughc

Good news really, anything that can breathe a bit of life to Clongriffin can only be a good thing, especially as I live 5 min walk from there!

_blank_

This the one in Clonskeagh

Cork boy 55

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Hmmm strange place for a mosque?

Whose paying for it and why?

from OP

Funding for the development has been promised by 10 wealthy individuals as well as charitable organisations in the Middle East.

BFDCH.

mattjack wrote: »

School,swimming pool,conference centres ,accommodation etc being brought to the area alongside employment and you complain about prayer calls.
That whole area that the Muslim group is looking to develop is a wasteland.

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

K.Flyer

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Whose paying for it and why?

From Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

Funding for the development has been promised by 10 wealthy individuals as well as charitable organisations in the Middle East.

^^^^^
Answers the first part of your question, which means its not the Irish Taxpayer its a private venture.

As to why?... Well why not, if thats what they want to do.

K.Flyer

BFDCH. wrote: »

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

From the Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html

... The group is anxious to make it known that the proposed amenities will be available not only to the Muslim population but also to families of other faiths - or no faith - with the intention of promoting harmonious relations.

They do not openly call to prayer from the other Mosques in the city, not even from the one in Clonskea and that has a minaret.
The people arrive early and are called to prayer by the Imam from inside the Mosque.

_blank_

BFDCH. wrote: »

I know assumptions are the mother of all **** ups but I'm going for it anyway. I assume those facilities are for the Muslim patrons rather than the community in general. So it's fair enough to complain if there's a call to prayer at 6 in the morning. Much worse than church bells, which are annoying in themselves.

You've been to the Middle East I take it, where every little piddly local Mosque has it's own Call To Prayer at Sunrise and Sunset?

It sounds intrusive the first few times you hear it, after that though you get used to it, and it becomes just another "sound of the city" - car horns and sirens in NYC, church bells in Ireland, you hardly even notice them any more, but they happen.

I've stood on a hill overlooking a Middle East city at sunset, and somewhat unexpectedly the Call To Prayer started, first in one Mosque, then gradually the rest of them started up - it was one of the most peacefully eerie things I've ever experienced - and I'm in no way religious.

anyway, it's already been stated in this thread that there is no CTP from the Mosque in Clonskeagh, and that it is done in the Mosque itself when everyone arrives, so as not to interfere with the locality - this will be similar.

As for the post about "who's paying and why" - I don't like the implications there, they are totally unfounded. Of course it's rich benefactors, and it's not surprising they are from the Middle East.

Cork boy 55

K.Flyer wrote: »

From Irish Times Article...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2012/0516/1224316188527.html



^^^^^
Answers the first part of your question, which means its not the Irish Taxpayer its a private venture.

As to why?... Well why not, if thats what they want to do.

I was not talking about taxpayers I was questioning Who these Middle east Groups are and what are their motives?

It's Wahhabi Gulf states petrodollars, that's what it is.
and the motive is spread Islam globally and conquer.

Saudi Arabia, where conservative Wahhabism predominates, pays vast sums for building mosques and other institutions in Europe.
For example The Saudis have contributed £100 million to a controversial project to build the largest mosque in Europe in London. In France, the UOIF an umbrella group of doctrinaire Muslim youth Organization gets a quarter of its annual budget from Saudi Arabia, The UAE and Kuwait. Stockholm Great mosque was long financed by a Skeih from the UAE.
Scratch deep enough and you find some very sinister people behind this cash. The motive was the same as Christain missionaries and imperialism in Africa. Colonialism of the host country. Spread their creed.

Muslim Population grow rapidly due to a variety of lessons
Control of their females mating and reproduction. higher birth rates, arranged marriage with mates brought over from the old homeland, chain migration etc.
We are 1-3 generation behind the rest of western Europe in this regard (mass Islamic migration) and can view the results and it is not pretty.
They form parallel societies and cause are sorts of intergration and socioeconomic issues.

The pew research forum say their numbers will be 125,000 by 2030
so we are going to need more mosques and Saudi funding also a few districts of the city will be majority Muslim by then.

Ireland Muslim population
1990 15,000 0.4%
2010 43,000 0.9%
2030 125,000 2.2%(median projected)

http://features.pewforum.org/muslim-population/

Aard

I thought this thread might take such a turn...


Who cares who's paying for the mosque? In economic terms, it's a huge construction project that will inject a lot of capital into the country from outside. Its construction will employ a lot of people. Socially, it will provide services to Clongriffen that arguably it would be waiting years if not decades for.

Speculating on the motives of these foreign investors is a bit over the top. Considering that about one-fifth of the entire global population is muslim, is it not to be expected that increased immigration here in general is likely to increase the muslim population by default?

Dyr

Aard wrote: »

I thought this thread might take such a turn...

tbh if it was taking this turn on the basis that some pro life, creationist nutjobs from Ohio were bank rolling it I don't think people would have a problem with anyone raising it.

_blank_

Aard wrote: »

Who cares who's paying for the mosque?

Well after that revealing exposé, I care, now that it's clear that Ireland and Dublin is being targetted for conquering and being colonised by these evil Islamists.

zef

"They form parallel societies and cause are sorts of intergration and socioeconomic issues. "
Are you a Daily Mail reader, Corkboy55?
Because your post reminds me of the guff they print.

skD13

This conversation has already occurred among some residents of Clongriffin (and some non-residents who also jointed the debate). The project is guardedly welcomed by many, because let's be honest, Clongriffin is a building site and people living here would like to see it completed. A project like this would allow much of the peripheral green-ways and roads to be completed (see new Local Area Plan for the area soon to be published).

However, some people have the whole Islamic paranoia thing going on. But are people just jumping the gun a little thinking Islam in the whole is on some sort of crusade? And even if it was, would it really be any real long term threat to established secular states?

Religion doesn't float my boat philosophically. I am generally suspect of religion (especially any kind of proselytizing... just believe what you want and leave others alone please!!!), but I don't think society should suppress religion. What's the point, many people want it, many people need it and if it is suppressed people will find it anyway.

So with that in mind, if someone wants to build a mosque, church whatever, then just let them at it and as long as the state makes sure the laws of the land are being respected. The complex down in Clonskeagh seems to work, so why not here? And as many have stated, Clongriffin needs a focal point. The DART station and the park (albeit a nice one) aren't enough.

Regarding the backers of the Mosque, their identities will become public knowledge on submission of the planning application. If there is anything untoward then people can object on that basis, either personally or via public reps. I'd be interested in who is backing it, that's why I'd consider myself guardedly welcoming of this... because I don't know the full details yet so I can't cement my opinion. If as Bambi suggested above, it was being bankrolled by some fundamentalist outfit then I'd be concerned.

Regarding Aaard's statement about this debate taking a certain turn, dead right it was going to, it actually took that turn the very day the IT reported on the project. If you tweeted Clongriffin on that day, you would find the article broadcasted by such organisations as the EDL and various other "Islam watchers"! The discourse around this project will certainly be interesting and what with the 2nd series of Homeland coming up and all .

mattjack

Des wrote: »

Well after that revealing exposé, I care, now that it's clear that Ireland and Dublin is being targetted for conquering and being colonised by these evil Islamists.

I for one, look forward to welcoming our evil Islamist overlords.

Miss Lockhart

Trust the mention of muslims to bring out the worst on both sides - some so quick to assume this will be a terrorist training ground or some other nonsense, with others earnestly insisting it can only be a good thing.

Overall, if there is a demand for a mosque in the area then I can't see the problem. I am against religious patronage of schools so I am loathe to see that happen - but it's no different to the RC or CoI setting up another school. That said, the one in Clonskeagh has had its problems so I hope the Department will monitor it closely - as they should all schools, particularly when a new patron is involved.

People are also entitled to voice their concerns about a call to prayer. I have experienced this in Turkey and I would not be happy to hear this first thing in the morning from my home.

I also understand peoples' concerns about the private funding, but at the same time, there's no point pointing fingers without any facts.

Aard

Just on the call to prayers thing: I really cannot see the Local Authority planners giving permission to very-early or very-late calls, if any at all. They often put restrictions on shops opening beyond a certain hour in the interest of "preserving residential amenities", so I imagine they'd be equally keen on avoiding any loud calls to prayer. There is a process that needs to be gone through before planning permission is granted, and anybody can make a submission during that time. Planners take public submissions very seriously, particularly in relation to noise.

Rhand

zef wrote: »

"They form parallel societies and cause are sorts of intergration and socioeconomic issues. "
Are you a Daily Mail reader, Corkboy55?
Because your post reminds me of the guff they print.

Your childish naivety is both funny and annoying.

And no, I don't read the Daily Mail. I experienced it myself for the first 25 years of my life when I lived in districts of my hometown where the muslimpopulation constituted more than 50-75% of the total.

carlmango11

I have to say I think there's a lot of truth to what Cork Boy posted. Just talk to people living in London or Paris.

While I'm not against this project I think it's totally naive to say it's not being built with the goal of increasing Islamic power. With a larger presence (be that through numbers or establishments) in our society they will have a stronger voice - to suggest otherwise is foolish. While I'm all for equality I just don't agree with their views on how society should be run and they will and have pushed their views onto the Government etc.

pontia

luckily enough i dont live in the area but if i did i would be wary of this developement.if you take englands example it didint work out very well