Lonely hearts ads from 1970s, thankfully things have changed!

riveratom

Emme wrote: »

riveratom wrote: »

I saw it first hand with aunts and cousins. A woman would marry a farmer and move into the homeplace with him and his parents. She would have to work in the home under the direction of her mother-in-law and also help her husband on the farm with cows, feeding calves etc. She would be working from dawn until dusk yet would not have a penny to call her own. She often had to care for mentally ill brothers and sisters (many families had a mentally handicapped or schizophrenic sibling living with them) who were in the home as well as the elderly parents. These women saved the Irish state billions with their unpaid labour! If she wanted anything she would have to ask her husband for the money despite working just as hard (and sometimes harder) than him in the homestead.

Sometimes the in-laws liked her and things went well, but in many other cases the in-laws didn't like the daughter-in-law and took every opportunity to make her life hell. When children came along the woman would have even more work to do.

I know of women who married into farms and without nursing training cared for elderly relatives with Parkinsons, Alzheimers disease and for people confined to bed. Often these people held the purse strings despite being incapacitated. Their children wouldn't dare to make them a ward of court. At a whim they could leave the farm and homestead to another brother or sister instead of the son who would have worked the land all his life. Sometimes the land would have gone to a son who had left home, learnt a trade or profession and wouldn't have depended on farming for a living unlike the son who had worked the farm. In these cases a wife with a profession - teaching, nursing, clerical etc. was invaluable as she could become the breadwinner while the husband looked for farm work elsewhere.

Thankfully this does not happen so much nowadays but there are many relatively young women who grew up in rural Ireland and remember how women were treated as slaves when they married into farms.

The dictionary definition of drudgery is hard, menial, and monotonous work
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drudgery

If the work is unpaid into the bargain it is definitely drudgery no matter what anyone says!

Fair enough, seems crazy that that could have been happening. Ireland was a fairly backward country though in lots of ways, it's almost as if we were fast-tracked into modernisation in just a couple of very short decades or so...in fact that is kinda what happened!

Emme

riveratom wrote: »

Emme wrote: »

Fair enough, seems crazy that that could have been happening. Ireland was a fairly backward country though in lots of ways, it's almost as if we were fast-tracked into modernisation in just a couple of very short decades or so...in fact that is kinda what happened!

That's exactly what happened. Information technology fast-tracked Ireland into modernity along with the brief spell of prosperity/free-for-all bank credit that was called the Celtic Tiger. IT made it possible for people in rural areas to look beyond their immediate surroundings and learn about the outside world. IT also brought marriage prospects to farmers that they wouldn't have had before - ie women from the Philippines and Eastern Europe. Younger farmers marry or live with women who work, commute and bring an income into the household. This income is more important than ever these days.

Their parents may still have the old mindset regarding land, dowries etc. The farmers who might have remained single 10 or 20 years ago because of an entrenched mindset now have the option of marrying women from overseas though that may sometimes have its own price.

Some things don't change - farmers still like to have a son to carry on the name even though daughters are just as capable of running a successful farm if they wish.

mood

Emme wrote: »

riveratom wrote: »

That's exactly what happened. Information technology fast-tracked Ireland into modernity along with the brief spell of prosperity/free-for-all bank credit that was called the Celtic Tiger. IT made it possible for people in rural areas to look beyond their immediate surroundings and learn about the outside world. IT also brought marriage prospects to farmers that they wouldn't have had before - ie women from the Philippines and Eastern Europe. Younger farmers marry or live with women who work, commute and bring an income into the household. This income is more important than ever these days.

Their parents may still have the old mindset regarding land, dowries etc. The farmers who might have remained single 10 or 20 years ago because of an entrenched mindset now have the option of marrying women from overseas though that may sometimes have its own price.

Some things don't change - farmers still like to have a son to carry on the name even though daughters are just as capable of running a successful farm if they wish.

IT is new to all the world not just Ireland. I am from a country place and know no farmers who married 'Thai Brides' etc. In fact I know two young farmer who married single mothers and neither had a 'profession' and their families are perfectly happy with their choice. Even in my parents generation (both in their 70s) dowries were a thing of the past.

laoch na mona

the ads in the farmers journal are still like that

mood

laoch na mona wrote: »

the ads in the farmers journal are still like that

It's a reflection of the readership of the Farmers Journal not of Irish society as a whole.

Emme

mood wrote: »

Emme wrote: »

IT is new to all the world not just Ireland. I am from a country place and know no farmers who married 'Thai Brides' etc. In fact I know two young farmer who married single mothers and neither had a 'profession' and their families are perfectly happy with their choice. Even in my parents generation (both in their 70s) dowries were a thing of the past.

Mood, I didn't want to bring up single mothers marrying farmers because not all single mothers are the same. Some work, others don't. Some single mothers get as many benefits as possible and this might appeal to certain farmers. Other single mothers might not avail of as many benefits because they are working and family members are caring for their children in the meantime. Any woman with a child is at risk of ending up a single mother, the relationship could break up, if married she could be widowed. Some women choose to be single mothers because they want a child but can't find a partner willing to commit. So they raise the child on their own.

However, I do know of one farmer from my area (49) who had two children with a younger women (31). She availed of all the state benefits available to single mothers and didn't work. He was living at home with his parents but stayed most nights with her. They plan to marry, I don't know how that will affect their income.

mood

Emme wrote: »

mood wrote: »

Mood, I didn't want to bring up single mothers marrying farmers because not all single mothers are the same. Some work, others don't. Some single mothers get as many benefits as possible and this might appeal to certain farmers. Other single mothers might not avail of as many benefits because they are working and family members are caring for their children in the meantime. Any woman with a child is at risk of ending up a single mother, the relationship could break up, if married she could be widowed. Some women choose to be single mothers because they want a child but can't find a partner willing to commit. So they raise the child on their own.

However, I do know of one farmer from my area (49) who had two children with a younger women (31). She availed of all the state benefits available to single mothers and didn't work. He was living at home with his parents but stayed most nights with her. They plan to marry, I don't know how that will affect their income.

I just brought up the subject of the young farmers I know marring single mothers to highlight that not all farming families are as backward as you say. Both their parents were happy with their son choice of wife and were not putting pressure on them to marry 'laying hens' from a farming background as you put it.

Most likely all her single parent benefits (if she gets any) will be cut as she will no longer be a single parent.

ash23

She is not a single parent now anyway. If he stays most nights with her then she, and he, are committing fraud.

Sorry but it's a bugbear of mine when people say single parents are defrauding the system by claiming benefits while living or practically living with a partner. Those are couples defrauding they system. Not single parents.


My fella is a farmer and I am a single parent. A genuine one. He has no problem with it, nor do his family. There aren't many people left who aren't more liberal than they would have been in the 70s. It's very few who haven't moved on and become more tolerant.

johnr1

I come from a rural/farming area, most of my original set of mates are part or full time farmers, none are married to Filipinos, most are with teachers, office/admin workers, childcarers, hotel and restaurant staff, service industry workers. These women are independent, these couples live their lives exactly as my city/town based friends do, with perhaps the difference that they often live near his or her parents and he will often work alongside his dad or hers, and that the mom will be physically located closer and thus more able to be involved in the childcare.

On the original topic, I think that the people who advertised there were those for whom the usual routes to finding a husband or wife had failed, and therefore ought not to be mistaken for a cross-section of rural ireland then or now.
They do make for good reading though.

Emme

mood wrote: »

Emme wrote: »

I just brought up the subject of the young farmers I know marring single mothers to highlight that not all farming families are as backward as you say. Both their parents were happy with their son choice of wife and were not putting pressure on them to marry 'laying hens' from a farming background as you put it.

Most likely all her single parent benefits (if she gets any) will be cut as she will no longer be a single parent.

Mood, this woman is just one example of a single parent and doesn't represent them all. Relationships break up and divorce is widespread now so there are bound to be more single parents for a variety of reasons.

I agree that some farming families are progressive and happily accept any girl their son may marry but there are some who want their son to marry a girl from a farming background. The attitude is that the family had to work and fight to hold onto the land over generations and a broken marriage could threaten that. It might seem backward but the farm has been that family's livelihood for generations.

Sometimes it's down to the fact that the son might get on better with a woman from a farming background who understands the 24/7 nature of a farming life. Income on farms is uncertain so it can make sense for one partner to have a steady job.

We cant judge the past by todays standards, for example on the 1911 census forms it has a category asking if any individual who lives in the house is an imbecile! at the time that was very acceptable but would not be today.

People in the past were just the same as today they wanted to meet someone thats all, as for the stereo typing of farming life of course there is something in it, stereo types always have some routs in reality, its the motives ascribed to the farmers that I disagree with people seem to forget how poor Ireland was even 40 years ago, family were trying to do their best ( they didn't always get it right ) women in all societies have the greater burden of caring for sick and elderly parents.

It alway amazes me how two people can be living in the same situation and yet experiences it so differently for example farming/ rural life...one person can see it as a oppressive, gossipy, narrow minded, way of life and an other person sees it as a mutually supportive, safe, community oriented way of life.

hardCopy

These guys were all still single because they had no Road Frontage

ashes79

No one cared about road frontage til the boom when road frontage meant you could sell half your farm for a few million

ashes79

ashes79 wrote: »

No one cared about road frontage til the boom when road frontage meant you could sell half your farm for a few million

Real farmers don't sell sites

Ickle Magoo

Okay folks, this isn't the place for a discussion on the nuances of farming life - so anyone wishing to carry on in that vein can please do so via PM.

Can I also remind posters that tLL charter covers generalisations and that flaming is against site rules. If said in the reverse/your situ you would find insulting, please don't say it about others.

Cheers.