The Post Mortem

K_1

Rather than let the forum descend into silence again for the next 4 years, I thought if I started the inevitable post mortem thread before the end, it might catch more traffic and sensible discussion.

The Good

- Boxing - 4 medals from six is incredible. Not much more that can be said, other than keep it up for Rio!

- Equestrian - Surprise medal from COC was a bonus.

- Sailing - Exceptional performance from Annalise Murphy, also Peter O'Leary and David Burrows for making the medal race, although there is no future for them in Rio without their current division.

- Athletics - Rob Heffernans performance was outstanding, good showing also from Brendan Boyce and Laura Reynolds. Honourable mention for Britons results too.

- Canoeing - Hannah Craigs 10th was great in womens slalom, and while Jezierski was unlucky not to make the a final in sprint C1 200m, 9th overall is very good, and he has committed to continue competing.

- Gymnastics - He may have been injured and under performed, but making the Olympics was incredible given Kieran Behans situation.

Edit: - Modern Pentathlon - hadn't happened when i wrote the post, but 9th from Natalya Coyle was fantastic.

The Not so Good

- Athletics - no track or field final, O'Lionaird and jennings competing injured, cuddihy well down on SB, 4x4 apparently content with 6th in their heat.

-Canoeing - Eoin Rheinischs very bad luck with hitting the bottom of the course. No fault of his really, and was well on course for final qualification.

-Cycling - Under performance in road race and time trial.

-Eventing - Dressage let the team down again.

- Swimming - The less said the better. Sick athletes competing is never a good idea.


The Rest

Other athletics, badminton, judo, triathlon, rowing, other sailing, shooting, etc pretty much as expected, some bad luck with draws etc.



So Where From Here?

The big question!

- more focus on boxing, sailing etc?

- Switch to better medal hope events - field over track etc?

- Continue on as before and hope the boxers do the job in rio, tokyo/madrid/istanbul?



Maybe we could get a good positive discussion going without the usual ''wasting taxpayers money'' and ''letting us down'' rubbish!

Edit : Not forgetting of course we still have athletes to compete! Could be looking at this differently tomorrow!

DEFTLEFTHAND

This argument emerges every four years. The fact of the matter is that things don't look good for the future. I predict we'll win zero medals in Rio, with boxing going pro.


The hard questions have to be asked and rightfully so, I don't question any Irish Olympian's commitment and effort but the reality is that we've never performed collectively well as a unit in the games. Since 1896 we've won a total of 28 medals, pathetic compared to countries of a similar population.

Worryingly many of these athletes seem to revel in mediocrity. The relay girls that you mentioned were ecstatic at finishing 6th in a heat, silly behaviour as Tom Chamney opined on Radio 1.

Ireland will never be a powerhouse, maybe its time we accept that and start sending a reduced team of competitors to future Olympiads.

Pisco Sour

You will never get intelligent discussion here I'm afraid to say.

I'm going to jump the gun here and get my 2c in before some clown says we should cut funding for athletics and put it into boxing and sailing instead. Athletics gets piss all funding as it is. Instead of kicking up a hissy fit about the tiny bit of the cake that athletics gets, instead check out the amount that GAA and Horse Racing receive, sports that do not need such level of funding. 1/3rd of all sports funding to Horse Racing. A joke. Not even a sport, but merely a gambling activity! Don't steal from the poor to feed the poor.

The_Kew_Tour

Ok I am going to go over this a bit vague, but trying to get some points across.

Firstly the Good;

Boxing; No surprise there. Magnificent achievement and to get 7 medals from 11 boxers in last 2 Olympics is some going. Pity we did not get 1 Gold in the mens boxing, but that cant take anything away.

Athletics; Disappointing overall. Joanne Cuddihy did pretty well in very strong event and I dont think Derval performance was too shabby, but otherwise nothing really to cheer. Britton also got PB so cant ask for much more, but long way from Olympic medal standard for any athlete. I think we should be trying to look for people in field events too. We used to have strong tradition of at least having performers in hammer, discus and Shot Putt and indeed came close to medals and won medals in these events in world and Olympic stage.

Still Rob Heffernan was so close to medal and to come 9th also in 20k is terrific and was the highlight on the track by distance.

Swimming. Biggest disappointment bar Sycerika McMahon who at least looks to have great future ahead of her.

Other Sports. Obviously Equestrian was great as we got 5th in team event and Bronze from Cian O Connor which is excellent going.. Bar the boxers our next best event and by some way too. Annalise Murphy was so close and again did us proud. No shame in 4th.

Others who deserve mention are Hannah Craig, Aoife Smith and Andrei Jezierski who had decent top 10's and in Andrei case was unlucky not to make final with different heat he would have made it and done well in final on his B Time. Gavin Noble also gave good account of himself in tough competition.

Overall: This has been our biggest Medal haul since 1956. Yet we still seem to find people who are not happy. Said this few times but we have come on a long way from 2000 and 2004 when we were only hoping rather then expecting a medal.

We were hoping to win 3 medals max, so to win 5 has to be applauded. With bit of luck it could have been 6-7. I dont agree that we should just forget about funding for Athletics and start pumping money into Sailing in particular just on basis of 1 decent result. If thats the case why no mention of Rob Heffernan?

Just few sports I think we should look into is Field Events, Cycling Canoeing and Kayaking and maybe Weighlifting.

What the future Holds:
Its very hard to know how things will pan out in 2016. Some are worried about Boxing Pros going to compete in 2016, but there wont be that many and most wont go to Rio, so I think our Boxing will still be strong once of course we keep the great Billy Walsh and his team.

We do have some very promising runners like Gregan in 400m and English in 800m. Now tbf they will be in tough events, but we wait and see for few years to see how they develop.

I am very confident that swimming will produce one or two big stars in next couple of years also. The amount of effort that coaches and children are putting into the sport is going unseen to most, but I can tell you that if nothing comes from swimming it wont be from lack of effort. But, I will put neck on line and say we will have finalists in Rio in swimming and more then one.

I do think though we also need to change the way sports are approached in Schools. England approach has worked wonders and they seem to be so strong in so many events. I think its unrealistic for us to expect the same, but if greater emphasis was put on giving kids more flexible PE classes you may find more kids involved and competing in Sports they never thought they were good at. I mean how many kids have thrown Javelin or Hammer. I doubt very few so greater effort and a system needs be set up if we are to see progress in different Sports.

MrCreosote

The whole Olympics were great. Seem to have gone mainly without a hitch, and from people I know who went, the atmosphere at all the events was fantastic. The British public, the volunteers etc have been the best thing about the Games.

Our own medal haul has been super- who cares if they're mostly in one sport. It shows that with proper coaching and intelligent funding we can easily compete at the highest level.

A decision must be taken about what we look at the Olympics for- if it's medals and success then the funding needs to be better used. Swimming and Athletics are an utter waste at the moment- they suck the cash out of other more deserving sports.

If it's just getting athletes to qualify and getting to the games is an end in itself (which is fine IMO) then keep the current funding model.

I agree with Pisco Sour about the horse racing. Not a sport. Ludicrous the tax breaks and funding it gets.

ligind

We have thanks to our boxers had a fine Olympics. These things usually go in cycles and it would be asking a lot to expect the boxers to deliver again in Rio.

The hard questions need to be asked about swimming and athletics , are we ever realistically going to medal in these sports ?

I would value a medal in swimming and athletics over most other sports but given our financial situation the time may have come to target 5 or 6 sports where we are at least in contention for medals.

Dan man

Just a note of caution for those who think we should cut athletics funding....Ireland would be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of medal chances for Rio 2016 and the 2020 Olympics. Despite the disappointing results in athletics from an Irish point of view in London, this is the most exciting period in Irish athletics history....

Look at the juniors coming through:

Conor McCullough: World Junior Champion in Hammer (2010), World Junior Silver (2008)

Kate Veale (Race Walking): World Youth Champion (2011); 4th place in Youth Olympic Games (2010)

Mark English (800m): 5th place at World Junior Championships (2012)....2 of the medallists in that event went on to win Olympic medals in London, showing how brilliant Mark done to come 5th against a top class field, not just at junior level.

Ciara Mageean (1,500m): Silver at World Junior Championships (2010).


When you see results from Laura Reynolds (20th place at Olympics in 20km walk) and Brendan Boyce (29th place in 50km walk)....they will surely improve as they are very young for their events and won't be peaking until about 2020 or beyond.

Plenty more exciting prospects that I haven't mentioned but you get my point, athletics in Ireland is on the cusp of delivering success for us on the Olymoic stage, a cut in funding could really damage some of our best medal prospects for the next Olympic cycle.

eyescreamcone

Have to agree with the comments about the schools.
We have no PE in primary schools and secondary school is nearly as bad.

We should have sports scientists assessing kids in various athletic tests. Coupled with an assessment of the childs' parents makeup - possible future sports could be identified for EVERY child.

At present it's "he's small, put him in corner forward"
Or "he's big - midfield for him"

Why not "he's big, how about tennis, swimming, basketball, high jump...etc"

Also we need to invest in the expensive sports - horses, yachts, bikes, guns etc.
Easier medals here IMO

But we need to encourage more children to partake in sports.
Especially girls.
Let Katie Taylor be your hero - not Jordan or Posh Spice.
Be a player not a WAG!

That turned into a bit of a rant but I feel better now

Sportora

I'm not convinced that throwing more money at services will improve things. It's more a cultural thing - systemic changes are needed if we want to turn things around.

You couldn't say boxing is well funded compared to other sports, and yet we keep pumping out world-class amateur boxers. Money & resources alone don't make success.

Malown

Bring in more foreigners with potential and give them Irish passports. Otherwise we won't win another 5 medals in Rio.

peteacher

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Have to agree with the comments about the schools.
We have no PE in primary schools and secondary school is nearly as bad.

We should have sports scientists assessing kids in various athletic tests. Coupled with an assessment of the childs' parents makeup - possible future sports could be identified for EVERY child.

At present it's "he's small, put him in corner forward"
Or "he's big - midfield for him"

Why not "he's big, how about tennis, swimming, basketball, high jump...etc"

Also we need to invest in the expensive sports - horses, yachts, bikes, guns etc.
Easier medals here IMO

But we need to encourage more children to partake in sports.
Especially girls.
Let Katie Taylor be your hero - not Jordan or Posh Spice.
Be a player not a WAG!

That turned into a bit of a rant but I feel better now

The problem is that children are not being taught the fundamental skills from a young age in primary schools when children are able to learn motor skills a lot easier. By the time they get to secondary school since they do not have the fundamentals they do not want to engage in PE or activity at second level. You would be shocked by how many students cannot run properly when they are in 1st year! Get properly qualified teachers in to teach PE.

In relation to 2nd level, investment in proper facilities is required. There are a few on this thread that think that PE teachers are doing nothing. I would love to be able to provide throwing events in my PE curriculum, however my school has no grass available, no PE hall, so how can you inspire and give students the full experience of track and field, gymnastics etc without the facilities to do so. The kids due to the lack of facilities loose interest very quickly.

Cardinal Richelieu

Malown wrote: »

Bring in more foreigners with potential and give them Irish passports. Otherwise we won't win another 5 medals in Rio.

Qatar and Bahrain already have driven up the price for imports. On a bright note the foreign nationals from West Africa that settled in Ireland might produce a decent sprinter in the coming years.

K_1

Malown wrote: »

Bring in more foreigners with potential and give them Irish passports. Otherwise we won't win another 5 medals in Rio.

Hasn't worked too well so far. No offence to them, but Tori Pena, Alastair Cragg etc didn't do anything amazing.

Syferus

Pisco Sour wrote: »

You will never get intelligent discussion here I'm afraid to say.

I'm going to jump the gun here and get my 2c in before some clown says we should cut funding for athletics and put it into boxing and sailing instead. Athletics gets piss all funding as it is. Instead of kicking up a hissy fit about the tiny bit of the cake that athletics gets, instead check out the amount that GAA and Horse Racing receive, sports that do not need such level of funding. 1/3rd of all sports funding to Horse Racing. A joke. Not even a sport, but merely a gambling activity! Don't steal from the poor to feed the poor.

The old robbing Peter to pay Paul trick, I see. A bit of arogance thrown into the pot to make it taste a little fresher.

The GAA gets more funding because it serves a far larger playing base and community. Just because a few matches a year fill grounds doesn't mean it covers the expenses of every club and every underage game than run at losses. Most clubs are lucky to break even, and there are clubs in just about every single parish in the land. The GAA runs alot of cultural and community events outside of football and hurling so to act as if all the funding would be going to other sports if not the GAA is blinkered.

You can be sure if athletics were as popular as the GAA it'd get similar amounts of funding.

The 'blame X' because it's popular routine is debilitatingly tiring.

MrCreosote

Syferus wrote: »

You can be sure if athletics were as popular as the GAA it'd get similar amounts of funding.

GAA gets 3 million from the Irish sports council. Athletics gets 2.2 million.

This doesn't represent in any way the popularity of GAA, or what a fantastic organisation it is at grassroots level across the country.

The country gets very little from that 2 million, 1.2 million of which is for high performance and athlete grants. If anything it's harming athletics in Ireland because people are "un-inspired" by seeing the performances at the Olympics.

eyescreamcone

MrCreosote wrote: »

GAA gets 3 million from the Irish sports council. Athletics gets 2.2 million.

This doesn't represent in any way the popularity of GAA, or what a fantastic organisation it is at grassroots level across the country.

The country gets very little from that 2 million, 1.2 million of which is for high performance and athlete grants. If anything it's harming athletics in Ireland because people are "un-inspired" by seeing the performances at the Olympics.

I'm sure if Derval O'Rourke, for example, was only up against the "best of" Clare or Roscommon, she'd be regarded more highly than Sheflin or Lar.

If GAA teams had to compete internationally I'm sure we'd be very "un-inspired" with their performance.

The question is "do we want to improve in international competition?"

The GAA is an irrelevance to this question (except for directing some potential athletes away from international sports)

Syferus

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I'm sure if Derval O'Rourke, for example, was only up against the "best of" Clare or Roscommon, she'd be regarded more highly than Sheflin or Lar.

If GAA teams had to compete internationally I'm sure we'd be very "un-inspired" with their performance.

The question is "do we want to improve in international competition?"

The GAA is an irrelevance to this question (except for directing some potential athletes away from international sports)

Doing what, hurdling or playing football?

You've compared apples with oranges a few times in a short few paragraphs. Inter-county GAA players are the principle of their sport, but they are also people with day jobs and almost zero grants while most of our elite athletes are full-time and/or get relatively large amounts of money in grants.

Show respect to receive respect. After such a fantastic Games that much shouldn't be beyond you.

Clareman

This is a great thread with some great opinions, well done Op and other contributors.

I think if the boxers have shown anything it's that by putting proper structures and people in place we can achieve wonderful things that can inspire a generation, remember when getting a Cuban in the Olympics was considered an awful thing, now it's getting drawn against the Irish, I think I saw somewhere that for 2 Olympics in a row any Irish boxer who was beaten was beaten by the eventual winner, that's some record to have.

IMVHO in order for Ireland to be successful on the International stage is to target events where we can win, lets be honest, we're not going to win anything at sprinting events or long distances, if a talent (such as a Sonia or Catriona) comes along of course nurture it, otherwise look to see what is possible. I think decathlons/hepthalons could be well suited to some Irish competitors, also, as has been pointed out concentrate on field rather than track events. Personally I have competed at a fairly high level in GAA (intercounty underage) and Rugby (AIL), I have never see a javelin let alone thrown 1, encourage people who are playing sports already to try something new.

The GAA isn't a big scary organisation, I know some people have the whole Grab All Association opinion, but in fact they are the Gaelic Athletic Association, work with them to identify potential athletes for other events. The GAA is well used to a fall off in numbers of players once the teenage years come along, they'd much prefer to see them play some sport than nothing, in fact you will find that a lot of the volunteers in other sports are involved in GAA as well.

I think there are a lot of "soft" medals we could try to go for, I know there's no such thing as an easy medal, but there are some that we could try to go for without a huge cost, for example there's a few 10 meter shooting events, now I don't know much about these sports, but there doesn't seem to be much to it in regards to kit needed. Also, most towns in Ireland have a sailing club, try to help out as much as possible.

This brings me to the biggest requirement imvho, SCHOLARSHIP for Olympic training, taking minor hurlers & footballers as an example, they are currently at semi-final stage, that's 120 under 18s (not including squads), both male and female, that are well used to training and sacrificing from a young age, why not "pay" them to go to college while also training for a sport. For example, the 8 mid-fielders from the minor football are identified as a great potential volleyball team, in exchange for having their college tuition paid along with college accommodation and with some spending money, say equal to the dole, they agree to train together and enter competitions, if their results in college or competition don't work out then the funding is cut. This is similar to what happens in the US for a lot of folks, I don't think it would take much to implement. You could have trials/scouts for the scholarships put in place as well.

Finally, in regards to funding, the GAA does get a lot of funding, but it also generates a lot of revenue also, I think the money for horse racing is a joke, I also think the removal of the betting tax was a terrible decision to make, bring back the 10% tax on any bets and use this money to fund sports in this country and if anyone has a problem with it, then don't place a bet.

The_Kew_Tour

My one hope is that we dont stand still and have to wait another 56 years to win 5 medals. Not just that, but had some outstanding results in walk, sailing and great debuts in Modern Pentathlon and we should be looking at these results in positive way and ones in which we should be trying to medal in next games.

Our aim in next Olympics should be to target 6-8 medals with least 1 Gold, if not 2. It might seem like high target, but thats the way it should be.

Lets keep pumping money into the high performance boxing. Its working and to produce 7 Medalists from 10 in past two games is fantastic result.

Its not all about medals either, but we should be aiming to get more athletes to reach more finals. Say 2/3 in Athletics and 2 in Swimming.(a sport I think will surprise people in Rio from Irish point of view).

We also need Doctors to tell if Athletes are fit to compete. Their decision should be final. That way if somebody does not produce the goods then there can be no excuse of saying "Oh well I was sick".

Lets target certain individuals who have the talent at young age and lets give them the best chance to make it at the top. Be that Boxing or Gymnastics or whatever Sport.

Clareman

I meant to mention about putting in proper backroom structures in place, a full team of physios and doctors, we can't get the HSE right but hopefully there could be something put in place, Ger Hartmann used to be Physio to the GB Olympic team, this time around he's with the Irish team, things are going in the right direction.

MrCreosote

eyescreamcone wrote: »

I'm sure if Derval O'Rourke, for example, was only up against the "best of" Clare or Roscommon, she'd be regarded more highly than Sheflin or Lar.

If GAA teams had to compete internationally I'm sure we'd be very "un-inspired" with their performance.

The question is "do we want to improve in international competition?"

The GAA is an irrelevance to this question (except for directing some potential athletes away from international sports)

I wasn't the one who first brought up the GAA. My point is that athletics receives nearly as much funding from the common tax-payer pool as GAA, and gives back far less in return.

Despite increased funding and a new high-performance manager, the results are worse now than 3 years ago.

The time comes when it's just stupid to put good money after bad.

The_Kew_Tour

Dan man wrote: »

Conor McCullough: World Junior Champion in Hammer (2010), World Junior Silver (2008)

This guy must be serious talent. I presume he must be well in with a shout for next games.

When should we start to see him at a Major Championships? Would European Championships in 2 years still be too soon, or is it realistic?

Dan man

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This guy must be serious talent. I presume he must be well in with a shout for next games.

When should we start to see him at a Major Championships? Would European Championships in 2 years still be too soon, or is it realistic?

He is a super talent....he has changed allegiance from the USA to Ireland as he feels he has more affinity with Ireland and we should see him at the World Championships in Moscow next year. He threw a new Irish U-23 record of 75.09m in July and when you consider that this distance would have placed him in 9th place at the Olympic Games last week it shows how much of an exceptional talent he is, and only 21 years of age.

The_Kew_Tour

Dan man wrote: »

He is a super talent....he has changed allegiance from the USA to Ireland as he feels he has more affinity with Ireland and we should see him at the World Championships in Moscow next year. He threw a new Irish U-23 record of 75.09m in July and when you consider that this distance would have placed him in 9th place at the Olympic Games last week it shows how much of an exceptional talent he is, and only 21 years of age.

Lets hope he stays with us so. Love the hammer event. That along with the long jump are both my favourite Field events.

Dan man

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Lets hope he stays with us so. Love the hammer event. That along with the long jump are both my favourite Field events.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure he's sticking with us....after all, his father (also named Conor McCullough) represented Ireland at 2 Olympic Games. Rio 2016 is looking really bright for us in both athletics and swimming....the two sports that have been receiving a bashing from the Irish media, saying we'll never win anything in these sports again. Whilst Irish results from both of those sports at London 2012 were indeed poor in general, the negativity surrounding our future prospects have been greatly dramatised by people who don't pay much attention to what's going on at underage level.

MrCreosote

Dan man wrote: »

Rio 2016 is looking really bright for us in both athletics and swimming....the two sports that have been receiving a bashing from the Irish media, saying we'll never win anything in these sports again. Whilst Irish results from both of those sports at London 2012 were indeed poor in general, the negativity surrounding our future prospects have been greatly dramatised by people who don't pay much attention to what's going on at underage level.

This is the same excuse that's trotted out after every Olympics. Mostly it seems to me it's the individual sports trying to protect their funding- "Ok we did poorly, but you can't pull out now because look at the talent we have coming through".

And yet it never seems to happen that the top juniors take the next step to senior success. Maybe we're just better than other countries at getting our juniors to a good level, but fail at the next step. Underage success doesn't predict future success that well. Previous success for a country at senior level does.

I'd be much happier if most of the high performance funding was scrapped and pumped back into the sports at a recreational level. Better access to pools, funding of athletics clubs etc.

Forget about the top end stuff- it's a waste and if someone truly amazing comes along, they'll look after themselves anyway.

Dan man

MrCreosote wrote: »

This is the same excuse that's trotted out after every Olympics. Mostly it seems to me it's the individual sports trying to protect their funding- "Ok we did poorly, but you can't pull out now because look at the talent we have coming through".

And yet it never seems to happen that the top juniors take the next step to senior success. Maybe we're just better than other countries at getting our juniors to a good level, but fail at the next step. Underage success doesn't predict future success that well. Previous success for a country at senior level does.

I'd be much happier if most of the high performance funding was scrapped and pumped back into the sports at a recreational level. Better access to pools, funding of athletics clubs etc.

Forget about the top end stuff- it's a waste and if someone truly amazing comes along, they'll look after themselves anyway.

Yes, I said before that it seems that we are continually looking 4 years down the line for success but Irish athletics is experiencing it's most exciting period in terms of future prospects....we didn't have a World Junior Champion or World Youth Champion or even a World Junior Silver Medallist 4 years ago.

KevIRL

Pretty controversial letter in todays Independent

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/throwing-good-money-after-bad-going-for-gold-3200162.html

The_Kew_Tour

KevIRL wrote: »

Pretty controversial letter in todays Independent

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/throwing-good-money-after-bad-going-for-gold-3200162.html

I think it would be huge mistake if funding for Swimming and Athletics was gone in the morning like he wants it to be.

I really dont know what to say. I do think this writer has the best interests, but at same time is missing a bigger picture too.

Likes of Gregan and English never got to show what they possibly have for the future. We will have some very good swimmers in near future too.

I have said this good few times now, but our results compared to every other Olympics was by far the best.

Its just a suggestion, but maybe there should be structure in place where if a person does not perform they get certain amount of money and the better the placing the more you get.

Like more of the experts views on this topic. I am bit vague here.

Silvio.Dante

We have the template for success in the Boxing programme. Can we trust or expect the OCI to focus on another two sports and concentrate funds on them?

Would we be happy with such a revolutionary change?

Cycling , Rowing and Equestrian would be the possible sports for me.

Like team GB we could scout the country for eligable specimens that could turn into high perfoming cyclists and rowers.

Pump the money into their training with quality coaches and in four/eight years we could potenially have some real success...

Silvio.Dante

Sean Kelly has a semi-pro set up of your cyclists. We could put them en masse on the Track and send them to Sheffield training with Team GB....

Clareman

I think it's too narrow-minded to cut funding to athletics and swimming, or any complete sport, but I think it's paramount that the funding is used correctly, if someone choices to be a professional athlete then they have to realize that their funding is going to have to be performance related, if you aren't performing then you aren't getting funding, it might seem a bit cold hearted but that's sport, if someone is performing they get money from the government as well as prize money, if you aren't performing but want to be a professional then go for the prize money, the funding will be revisited.

If I was run the funding I would get every association to submit their requests and have them outline what they plan to achieve with the funding, there also needs to be a detailed breakdown of where the money will be going, if an association wants to have "jobs for the boys" let them, just make sure they are detailing it. If an association doesn't meet it's targets, then they have to say why, failure to achieve your targets isn't always a bad thing, not knowing why you failed is.

We are a nation of sports people, we have a very strong GAA structure (even if not everyone likes it), astro-turf pitches are full every night during the winter with people playing, tag rugby is flourishing, gun clubs are full, 10ks are full every weekend and triathlons are getting more and more popular, surely out of the thousands of sports people we can get 100 people that could at least achieve a final in whatever event they chose.

sleapy235

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

This argument emerges every four years. The fact of the matter is that things don't look good for the future. I predict we'll win zero medals in Rio, with boxing going pro.


The hard questions have to be asked and rightfully so, I don't question any Irish Olympian's commitment and effort but the reality is that we've never performed collectively well as a unit in the games. Since 1896 we've won a total of 28 medals, pathetic compared to countries of a similar population.

Worryingly many of these athletes seem to revel in mediocrity. The relay girls that you mentioned were ecstatic at finishing 6th in a heat, silly behaviour as Tom Chamney opined on Radio 1.

Ireland will never be a powerhouse, maybe its time we accept that and start sending a reduced team of competitors to future Olympiads.

Eh, we've won 28 since 1924, we weren't an independent country until 1922. Irish athletes won a hell of a lot more medals before 1924 for GB, USA and Canada. Of first 8 Olympic hammer titles, 7 went to Irishmen.

marienbad

sleapy235 wrote: »

Eh, we've won 28 since 1924, we weren't an independent country until 1922. Irish athletes won a hell of a lot more medals before 1924 for GB, USA and Canada. Of first 8 Olympic hammer titles, 7 went to Irishmen.

So what went wrong then ? Why did'nt we continue that tradition ?

eyescreamcone

marienbad wrote: »

sleapy235 wrote: »

Eh, we've won 28 since 1924, we weren't an independent country until 1922. Irish athletes won a hell of a lot more medals before 1924 for GB, USA and Canada. Of first 8 Olympic hammer titles, 7 went to Irishmen.

So what went wrong then ? Why did'nt we continue that tradition ?

I'm guessing that with time, more countries took part in the Olympics and the level of competition went up dramatically.

Clareman

There were a group of men known as The Irish Whales who were part of the athletic club in New York, the guys were huge for the time (over 6 foot and 20 stone), they were the best throwers going, everyone else caught up and cause Ireland weren't doing anything to keep up we lost out, it's hard to believe that our country is less than 100 years old and when it was setup we refused any help from the previous rules, everything had to be setup from scratch, which is in large why the church ran health and education while the GAA did sport (very very simplistic view of the formation of the state there).

fryup

ok lets see.....

Moscow 1980 2
LA 1984 1
Seoul 1988 0
Barcelona 1992 2
Atlanta 1996 4 (cough ahem)
Sydney 2000 1
Athens 2004 0
Bejing 2008 3
London 2012 5

there's no getting away from it our olympic record is very poor, if it wasn't for boxing we'd come out with next to nothing

Clareman

Agreed that our Olympic past has been terrible and to be honest the 3 medals in Moscow and LA mightn't have happened if it wasn't for the boycotts of those Games. I think however that you can see an improvement in Ireland generally since Seoul, which was an all time low with really no hope of a medal, Atlanta could/should have been better with 2 of our best athletes of all time failing to perform on the big stage. Athens we had a gold (taken off us) and another jumper going for a medal as well, after that games there really was great strides made in boxing which we are seeing the benefit of now and all other sports should look at it as a blueprint on how to get success.

The_Kew_Tour

Clareman wrote: »

Agreed that our Olympic past has been terrible and to be honest the 3 medals in Moscow and LA mightn't have happened if it wasn't for the boycotts of those Games. I think however that you can see an improvement in Ireland generally since Seoul, which was an all time low with really no hope of a medal, Atlanta could/should have been better with 2 of our best athletes of all time failing to perform on the big stage. Athens we had a gold (taken off us) and another jumper going for a medal as well, after that games there really was great strides made in boxing which we are seeing the benefit of now and all other sports should look at it as a blueprint on how to get success.

I know Sonia is one, but who is the other you refer to? Just curious more then anything.:)

Agree with your post though. Like I said you cant change the past. We have to look to future.

KevIRL

5 in London fry up.

fryup

one sport that we could make inroads in is weightlifting, i mean its straightforward not too technical and surely not too costly either

marienbad

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know Sonia is one, but who is the other you refer to? Just curious more then anything.:)

Agree with your post though. Like I said you cant change the past. We have to look to future.

As for the other with Sonia, they were a few we had high expectations of , but alas not to be.

We had a good result in rowing - 4th in final and in canoing - 5th in final .

Clareman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I know Sonia is one, but who is the other you refer to? Just curious more then anything.:)

Agree with your post though. Like I said you cant change the past. We have to look to future.

Catherina McKiernan, around 96 she was making the transition from cross country to marathons I think

Clareman

fryup wrote: »

one sport that we could make inroads in is weightlifting, i mean its straightforward not too technical and surely not too costly either

I think there are a lot of sports that could be targeted, I'd be in favor of targeting sports that are individual as well that don't need competing against others, as you say weightlifting is a good one, I don't think wrestling would be for example.

The_Kew_Tour

Weightlifting is good choice. Kayaking Sprint and Slalom might be another. Im just talking about as in terms of maybe seeing have we talent in those mentioned.

feargale

Should we be looking at the longer term ? Is 2016 too near to remedy things ?

Silvio.Dante

I think incremental improvements is the way to go. If we get one or two more medals in Rio it will be a big success in my view. IF!

Focussing on our strengths is the obviuos way to go in my view. Concentrating our finite funds on already proven competitors.

A seperate programme in second level schools allowing students try out sports such as Handball, Archery, etc would be the first step in enocuraging potential furture medal hopes for 2020 and beyond...

The_Kew_Tour

Our aim now should be to win 6/8 medals in Rio with at least 2 Gold Medals.

Its tough ask im not denying that, but we should look to push on from London and not wait another 56 years before we have this type of decent success again.

I do think though we should be getting Kids more active in Olympic sports, but also spotting talent now so from 2020 we have Sportspeople in place that compete with the best

Cardinal Richelieu

I don't think we should entirely discount swimming, fairly easy for one outstanding athlete to pick up 3-4 medals in a games. Most other athletes are confined to one event. Below is a list of gold medals on offer in each sport in Rio.

• Athletics (47)
• Swimming (32)
• Cycling (18)
• Wrestling (18)
• Gymnastics (18)
• Shooting (17)
• Canoeing (16)
• Weightlifting (15)
• Judo (14)
• Rowing (14)
• Boxing (13)
• Fencing (10)
• Sailing (10)
• Diving (8)
• Taekwondo (8)
• Equestrian (6)
• Tennis (5)
• Badminton (5)
• Archery (4)
• Table tennis (4)
• Field hockey (2)
• Football (2)
• Golf (2)
• Handball (2)
• Modern pentathlon (2)
• Rugby sevens (2)
• Synchronized swimming (2)
• Triathlon (2)
• Volleyball (2)
• Water polo (2)
• Beach volleyball (2)
• Basketball (2)

The_Kew_Tour

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I don't think we should entirely discount swimming, fairly easy for one outstanding athlete to pick up 3-4 medals in a games. Most other athletes are confined to one event. Below is a list of gold medals on offer in each sport in Rio.

I expect swimming to come to the fore in Ireland in coming years. Its sport been taking serious at underage. Not saying medals are guarantee, but I think finals and hopefully medal or two can come from it.

Clareman

I think before looking at medals we should look at people qualifying for the events, the OCI have done the right think (IMO) of making people meet the A standard in order to travel to the olympics, this meant that most people who were there had a realistic shot at a final, the more people we have at the top standard, the more chances we have of medals.