Why do so many people hate the Sunday Independent?

silverdolphin

Hope I don't get banned for this, so I'll be as vague as possible. The story I'm about to refer to involves rugby players and a woman written by Niamh Horan. (I don't know if this story is true). I'm not commenting on the content, but the reporting of it. I don't know what went on and frankly it's none of my business. But the tone of the report was very judgmental and Horan implied that the woman was shameless about her actions and then Horan goes on to interview a PR guru that advises the woman to admit she was wrong. And I thought to myself, well we don't know the whole story, so why should the woman be shouldering most of the blame? What about the rugby players?

Arciphel

When we are relying on Niamh Horan as our moral barometer then you know we have gone down a bad road. Also, I'd love to know who it is that works for the Indo that is related to Holly Carpenter, as they have a story about this absolute nobody seemingly every day now.

smallerthanyou

I saw the articles you refer to. Not sure how why what went on between three consenting adults is news, it definitely makes me uneasy that this type of thing gets coverage in a national newspaper but all I can do is to keep on not buying it and cut out going onto the website.

mikemac1

Young man dies from cancer and sorrowful young girlfriend follows her dream to get into modeling. That's a story worth printing

They still managed to shamelessly pimp a clothes shop in Ranelagh though :rolleyes:

For shame Sindo, for shame

Lovely Chloe Brennan, 15, who has her sights firmly set on being an international supermodel, has been going through almost unbearable trauma during the past few weeks, having lost her boyfriend, Rory, to the ravages of cancer at the age of just 15.

Chloe's pain is intense, but her heart goes out to his family, who have been visited with such tragedy far too early in life. She intends to dedicate her modelling career to Rory's memory, in the belief that he will inspire her, and that he is determined that she should do well. But, difficult though it is, life goes on; Chloe faces into the Junior Certificate next week and she has temporarily stopped work in her mother Mary McNulty's unique Déjà Vu 'gently worn' boutique in Ranelagh (opposite the Luas station, 087-6187824). She knows Rory is with her all the way. "What more can I say. I know it," says Chloe, who is wearing an Aideen Bodkin dress from Déjà Vu.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2poqk2v&s=7

silverdolphin

It's unfortunate that there are many journalism graduates (with morals) struggling to get their foot in the door, and Niamh Horan gets paid for distorting facts and writing rubbish and unbelievably gets away with it.

Miss Lockhart

Arciphel wrote: »

Also, I'd love to know who it is that works for the Indo that is related to Holly Carpenter, as they have a story about this absolute nobody seemingly every day now.

She's Terry Keane's grandaughter.

Arciphel

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

She's Terry Keane's grandaughter.

Really? Well isn't that something. Thanks for the info :pac:

Miss Lockhart

Arciphel wrote: »

Really? Well isn't that something. Thanks for the info :pac:

Also Diarmuid Gavin's niece. I mean she's practically royalty.

SHOVELLER

The unashamed nepotism.

Eoghan Harris is mentally ill.

Dion Fanning knows footy? Jesus wept.

Zero Irish football coverage.

The non stop blather about "socialites".

The saying "A man about town".

Their anti public sector bias.

Supporting Bertie.

Disgraceful comments on Pat Finucane.

Brendan O'Connor.

anbrutog

SHOVELLER wrote: »

The unashamed nepotism.

Eoghan Harris is mentally ill.

Dion Fanning knows footy? Jesus wept.

Zero Irish football coverage.

The non stop blather about "socialites".

The saying "A man about town".

Their anti public sector bias.

Supporting Bertie.

Disgraceful comments on Pat Finucane.

Brendan O'Connor.

Pretty comprehensive list Shoveller but Barry Egan specifically needs to go in to make it complete..:D
Probably the most obnoxious man in the country, and that's saying something.

SHOVELLER

anbrutog wrote: »

Pretty comprehensive list Shoveller but Barry Egan specifically needs to go in to make it complete..:D
Probably the most obnoxious man in the country, and that's saying something.

Apologies! Does Barry Egan consider himself a journalist? Gossip mongerer.

A vacuous rag alright. Incredible that more than 200,000 people spend money on it weekly. That is a lot of stupid people.

lionela

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Because this type of anti-male aggression is published on its front page:



Simple. Many of their journalists are utter scumbags - in this case, Jody Corcoran.

Aside from the odd letter of complaint, I'm still in utter shock and disbelief how this article in particular was not the subject of massive media scrutiny, criticism and uproar. But it seems it's okay for certain sections of the media to abuse men.

And don't even get me started on Niamh Horan.

It's too dear,
Not worth the money. They should cut 30% of the crap that's in it and reduce the price pro rata

ILikeFriday

I think the problem is that a lot of people who would prefer to read a "serious newspaper" are buying this at the weekend because it's one of the closest things available and it's just not the same.

Partly, it's not their fault. There isn't really much news at the weekend, so it was always going to be a rehash of what went on during the week, redone as opinion pieces to give them some sort of new slant.

Though I would prefer it if their opinion pieces were done by specialists in a particular field. There is some of this, but I would like more. Personally, and this could be just me, I find it easier to respect the views of a journalist who is writing on some area of expertise that they have, whether it's the economy, politics, law, medical etc. I think the days of "here's Joe Bloggs, general expert on everything, who you should want to read because he's held in high esteem as a journalist" are coming to an end. If he doesn't have any more knowledge than me on a particular subject, I would rather not pay for his opinion, thank you.

Partly, they intentionally try to make it lighthearted - particularly the supplements. Somebody craving "news" is pulling them out and wondering "why am I paying for this flulffy nonsense?"

Basically, as there is not much news at the weekend, I think there is a real market for rigorous news analysis of the previous week. It's actually done quite well on weekend radio. Contributors are usually speaking on subjects within their field.

jmcc

SHOVELLER wrote: »

A vacuous rag alright. Incredible that more than 200,000 people spend money on it weekly. That is a lot of stupid people.

Even that figure might be a bit high with the number of copies (bulks) given away free.

Regards...jmcc

bidiots

That horan idiot is at it again, so now one of the lads is fleeing the country...this paper is on par with the lowest of red tops.

Arciphel

Must be very painful for her rear end, sitting on that fence all the time. Teetering between sensationalizing a consensual encounter between grown adults, and trying to walk the high moral line about how disgraceful and devastating it is for all concerned. She makes me sick.

bidiots

As the lad said "...I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire!"

Arciphel

More stories again today about the two rugby players. I think I might write the editor an email....

skimpydoo

bidiots wrote: »

That horan idiot is at it again, so now one of the lads is fleeing the country...this paper is on par with the lowest of red tops.

What lads what did she write this term and I use the term write loosely.

jack presley

skimpydoo wrote: »

What lads what did she write this term and I use the term write loosely.

That's the big point. "They can't be named for legal reasons" so the stories in yesterday's and today's papers are just vague stories about anonymous guys going about their own business doing everyday, ordinary things. How they consider that worth publishing is beyond me.

Berry Egan still writes as if he's still covering for Terry Keane. Absolute, total Sh1te. Fiona O'Connell is allowed write her own fairytales about animal cruelty and pushing her vegetarian agenda. As for the others, no one else would have them!

skimpydoo

jack presley wrote: »

That's the big point. "They can't be named for legal reasons" so the stories in yesterday's and today's papers are just vague stories about anonymous guys going about their own business doing everyday, ordinary things. How they consider that worth publishing is beyond me.

Oh the 2 Lions players. You only had to say Rugby players and I would have know who you meant. I know who they are as I am sure a lot of people on here do to but you won't catch me naming them on here.

honeybear

silverdolphin wrote: »

Nearly everyone says it's a rag. I heard someone say once about its sister paper "Ew, I can't believe I touched the Irish Independent." I agree the content could be better. I don't read it too much, but I've read some pieces and I don't think the reporters are bad writers (although some of them may have poor judgment). To be honest, I kind of prefer the Sindo's style of writing to the Irish Times because it's more engaging to me.

I think that it's quite a filthy paper-I always buy the times but others in the house get the indo so I pick and choose from both.

Big C

It would killme to think that even 1 cent of my hard earned disabilty benifit would end up eoighn harris pocket,

jack presley

skimpydoo wrote: »

Oh the 2 Lions players. You only had to say Rugby players and I would have know who you meant. I know who they are as I am sure a lot of people on here do to but you won't catch me naming them on here.

We all know who they are but what's the point in publishing a story about them when (a) they can't name who they are and (b) they aren't doing anything newsworthy?

No names + doing nothing = non-story => pathetic attempt at journalism.

Rory1

The greatest mystery on this island is why anyone buys the Sunday Independent. I will admit that I look down on anyone picking up a copy of it on Sunday morning. Rag rag rag.

kilns

Niamh Horan still pedalling this threesome Rugby story, who cares!!!

However, I thought it ironic when she referred to downmarket British tabloids trying to find the girl, The SI are right up there with them

Jack Kyle

They push their cronies (Katy French, Rosanna, etc).

Niamh Horan is put forward as a journalist (when she's just a bird wandering around with a laptop).

The rugby story is laughable. Everyone knows who the lads are and everyone knows who the girl is. Jesus at this stage everyone knows who the non famous other lads are!

I'd say a lot of people would pay a lot of money to be alone in a boxing ring with Barry Egan and a baseball bat. Vile sycophantic tripe...everything that was wrong and putrid about the Celtic Tiger.

copacetic

kilns wrote: »

Niamh Horan still pedalling this threesome Rugby story, who cares!!!

However, I thought it ironic when she referred to downmarket British tabloids trying to find the girl, The SI are right up there with them

It's a bit more than ironic, they are constantly running a social media non news story about someone's sex life, trying to stoke up and give clues to people's identity each week. It's basically the lowest form of journalism around.

Boasting about 'breaking the story' when all that means is print stuff that other people don't want to and then having a cut at other 'downmarket' papers if hilarious. You would wonder what Gene Kerrigan thinks about the relentless slide downmarket, will the bottom ever be reached?

Arciphel

http://gyazo.com/213dd0c6da72284637e11ea640487223.png

podgeandrodge

kilns wrote: »

Niamh Horan still pedalling this threesome Rugby story, who cares!!!

However, I thought it ironic when she referred to downmarket British tabloids trying to find the girl, The SI are right up there with them

Quote:

"One of the Irish rugby international stars at the centre of the alleged threesome scandal has left the country in a bid to escape intense coverage of the controversy."

Only intense coverage from non-journalists in rags.

Caonima

Jack Kyle wrote: »

They push their cronies.... Katy French

Dead from drugs.

Jack Kyle wrote: »

...Rosanna...

Got her rig out in Playboy recently.

thomas.frink

Caonima wrote: »

Dead from drugs.



Got her rig out in Playboy recently.

It's interesting on one thread you say you are insulted by celebrity gossip in newspapers, and here you indulge yourself in spreading celebrity gossip. I have no idea Katy french and Rosanna are, yet you seem familiar with them and their doings. Its a little ironic that you are doing the same thing you say "insults" you when its done by a newspaper.

The Sunday Independent is, according to the figures, the biggest selling sunday newspaper in Ireland, selling over 900 000 copies every week. What is the evidence that "so many" hate it, other than the seemingly snobbish opinions of a few?

I have to declare that I don't buy newspapers, and don't buy or have any interest in the Independent whether Sunday or otherwise.

IRE60

They sell 232, 000 every sunday

thomas.frink

[EMAIL="http://www.ilevel.ie/media-blog/print/irish-newspaper-readership1"]http://www.ilevel.ie/media-blog/print/irish-newspaper-readership1[/EMAIL]

Sorry if I misread the figures above, but it looks like this says the Sunday independent sells just over 900 000 on a Sunday. Have I misread that or is that readership as oppOsoed to sales?

Either way, it doesn't change the argument which shows there is evidence that 900 000+ read the Sunday independent, and the evidence that "so many" hate the Sunday independent seems not to exist.

IRE60

Thomas -wasn't being pedantic -sales are hand in pocket transactions and readership occurs thereafter - two people might read the same paper - one sale, two readers.
And a much I would not be a fan of the title, close to a quarter of a million people like it enough to buy it every Sunday - ultimately they are the judges

Caonima

thomas.frink wrote: »

It's interesting on one thread you say you are insulted by celebrity gossip in newspapers, and here you indulge yourself in spreading celebrity gossip. I have no idea Katy french and Rosanna are, yet you seem familiar with them and their doings. Its a little ironic that you are doing the same thing you say "insults" you when its done by a newspaper. .

French is dead and the other one did a spread in Playboy - how is that gossip? It actually happened. If I'm familiar with this it's because I sometimes read news from the Indo website but usually have to wade through this pap before I get to something of relevance.

thomas.frink wrote: »

I have to declare that I don't buy newspapers, and don't buy or have any interest in the Independent whether Sunday or otherwise.

... so you're on a thread about the Sunday Indo why again?

thomas.frink

Caonima wrote: »

... so you're on a thread about the Sunday Indo why again?

The thread seems to be about why so many people hate it, and not about the paper itself.

I am merely pointing out that, as irelands best selling newspaper, it seems curious to claim that so many people hate it, when, in fact its bought by more people that any other newspaper.

Caonima

thomas.frink wrote: »

The thread seems to be about why so many people hate it, and not about the paper itself.

I am merely pointing out that, as irelands best selling newspaper, it seems curious to claim that so many people hate it, when, in fact its bought by more people that any other newspaper.

I have a feeling that, although there are almost as many Sunday papers as daily papers, it has something to do with the constituents of the paper (as opposed to its quality), and that somewhat parochial attitude Ireland has. Traditionally, Irish families have come together on Sundays, so seeing as the Sunday Indo have so many segments (for all the family), I guess it's bought to cater for everyone in the house.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, unlike the Sunday World and the Irish Sun, it also doesn't have the page 3 girl thing, which might also feed into the family aspect.

Those with a less nuclear family and who are bigger fans of hard news probably buy the Times or Business Post.

I still maintain, though, that like many things, the sales of the paper itself are no reflection on the quality of it. Over the years, flicking through it if I found it in a bar or cafe, I was appalled at what passed for journalism in it. I have a masters degree in Journalism and I would blanch if it was me who had written some of the stories in there.

thomas.frink

Caonima wrote: »

I still maintain, though, that like many things, the sales of the paper itself are no reflection on the quality of it.

This thread is about the number of people who "hate" the Sunday independent. I am just pointing out that the premises of the question seems flawed as more people buy it than any other paper. Unless you think it is bought regularly by people who hate it, which seems unlikely.

Quality is another issue, and I have no comments to make about quality as I don't read the Sunday Independent.

I dont read the Sundsay Independent because I know I don' t like it. What I am curious about is that you also say you don't like it, but seem to feel compelled to read it when you see it lying about.

I don't understand why someone who doesn't like a publication would not only be bothered to read it and keep up to date about what its journalists and celebrities are doing, but to then set himself up as someone who is obviously knowledgeable about the quality of a publication, and discuss the quality of a publication he doesn't like and says he never buys, and only ever sees occasionally lying about in bars and cafe's.

Caonima

thomas.frink wrote: »

I dont read the Sundsay Independent because I know I don' t like it. What I am curious about is that you also say you don't like it, but seem to feel compelled to read it when you see it lying about.

I don't understand why someone who doesn't like a publication would not only be bothered to read it and keep up to date about what its journalists and celebrities are doing, but to then set himself up as someone who is obviously knowledgeable about the quality of a publication, and discuss the quality of a publication he doesn't like and says he never buys, and only ever sees occasionally lying about in bars and cafe's.

It's the old Irish habit of piquing your interest, and the fact that, as a journalism grad, it's nice to take a look at the quality of the writing and reporting. I mean, do you really like everything you read? I'd be surprised if you did. Before I started bashing stuff like chick-lit and teen vampire fiction, I went to places like Easons and Hoggis Figgis and read some of that stuff... and that is similarly awful.

efb

Who is Kodaline related to?

thomas.frink

Caonima wrote: »

It's the old Irish habit of piquing your interest, and the fact that, as a journalism grad, it's nice to take a look at the quality of the writing and reporting. I mean, do you really like everything you read? I'd be surprised if you did. Before I started bashing stuff like chick-lit and teen vampire fiction, I went to places like Easons and Hoggis Figgis and read some of that stuff... and that is similarly awful.

I am delighted to say my interest is not even a bit piqued by the Sunday Independent, and I have little or no desire to see it.

What you seem to be saying is that you dislike the paper but also feel compelled to not only read it, but to then comment on how dreadful it is, and continue being compelled to read something you say you dislike into the future.

I don't like everything I read, but once I have discovered that, I don't read it any more. I have read the Sunday Independent, didn't like it, so no longer read it. The difference is that you have decided you don't like the Sunday Independent, yet you continue not only to read it but to discuss with apparent knowledge individual stories as examples of how dreadful the newspaper is.

What is difficult to understand is why someone continually chooses to do something he claims to dislike or hate. It sounds more like a love/hate relationship where you read it it to enable you to take pleasure in then saying how dreadful it ill is, before reading it again next week and again pronouncing how awful it all is.

Caonima

thomas.frink wrote: »

What you seem to be saying is that you dislike the paper but also feel compelled to not only read it, but to then comment on how dreadful it is, and continue being compelled to read something you say you dislike into the future.

...

The difference is that you have decided you don't like the Sunday Independent, yet you continue not only to read it but to discuss with apparent knowledge individual stories as examples of how dreadful the newspaper is.

You're kinda repeating yourself here.

thomas.frink wrote: »

What is difficult to understand is why someone continually chooses to do something he claims to dislike or hate. It sounds more like a love/hate relationship where you read it it to enable you to take pleasure in then saying how dreadful it ill is, before reading it again next week and again pronouncing how awful it all is.

Well, I live abroad now so haven't seen sight nor sound of it in about 3.5 years. I go to the website occasionally to read up on back home, and again, sadly have to wade through a morass of pap before I get to something relevant. When I'm checking up news from back home, I flit from Indo to Times to Breakingnews to RTE or whatever.

However, maybe it's the difference of being a journo grad at play. I mean, whatever field you're knowledgeable in surely causes you to critique, praise or criticise output from this area accordingly? Or do you care that much about what you do? Or did you ever go to college/university?

gramar

The mother is over visiting and asked if we could see the news back home.
I opened up independent.ie......'that's not the news' she said.

How right she was.

Miss Lockhart

It being the most popular paper doesn't preclude it also being hated by many people.

thomas.frink

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

It being the most popular paper doesn't preclude it also being hated by many people.

So your contention is that papers who are bought by less people, are in fact more popular than a paper which is bought by a larger number of people.

What evidence have you for your contention?

jack presley

thomas.frink wrote: »

So your contention is that papers who are bought by less people, are in fact more popular than a paper which is bought by a larger number of people.

What evidence have you for your contention?

I don't know how you got that conclusion from her post. All she seems to be saying is that while a lot of people buy the Indo and obviously like it, there are also a lot of people that think it's a rag. Nowhere does she mention other papers and their popularity.

My two cents on it is that just because it's the most popular doesn't make it the best. Look at One Direction, they're probably the biggest selling music act at the moment? Are they the best?

thomas.frink

jack presley wrote: »

I don't know how you got that conclusion from her post. All she seems to be saying is that while a lot of people buy the Indo and obviously like it, there are also a lot of people that think it's a rag. Nowhere does she mention other papers and their popularity.

My two cents on it is that just because it's the most popular doesn't make it the best. Look at One Direction, they're probably the biggest selling music act at the moment? Are they the best?

We have statistical evidence that the Sunday Independent is the most popular newspaper in Ireland. We have anecdotal evidence that some dislike it.

It seems reasonable to consider the possibility that for those who like One Direction ( I have never heard any of their music myself) they are good, if not "the best". "The best" is subjective and it may well be that your "the best" is not someone else's "the best".

jack presley

thomas.frink wrote: »

We have statistical evidence that the Sunday Independent is the most popular newspaper in Ireland. We have anecdotal evidence that some dislike it.

Exactly. No one's disputing those facts. In fact, the bolded bit is what this whole thread is about and is a thread for people to talk about why they do hate it. I don't see why there's any issue here.