Dacia Duster

biko

Calling customers "clobs" started it.


Let's leave it now and get back to the cars.

Stallingrad

We're talking about cars now?

ba_barabus

Out of interest has anyone tried the Sandero or Logan?

Any thoughts on them in terms of how they drove?

gallag

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It seems it has to be said that often because a lot of people just ignore it anyway.
And once more:
AFAIK It only scores 3 stars because of the fact that it doesn't have stability or traction control. It scored very well in crash safety.

This MEANS that it seems to crash just fine, but got deducted some points because it doesn't have some computer trickery system that you will need in a Lambo, but in the average econo box will probably never be troubled.

So, go it? If no, I am open to questions, I'll type slow, so no one gets left behind

I just compared the duster to the ix35 and Kia sportage and it compares poorly in the crash test, it seems that repeating something does not make it true

gallag

http://www.euroncap.com/results/dacia/duster/2011/421.aspx

http://www.euroncap.com/results/hyundai/ix35/2010/406.aspx

http://www.euroncap.com/results/kia/sportage/2010/414.aspx

The duster is the worst in the class, if you click on the links above and hit compare the duster has nothing that shows, you have to go into older cars and the only two cars that are as unsafe as the duster are the 2008 daihatsu terios or the 2003 mitsi pajero pinin.

delthedriver

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Who'd a thought a budget MPV could stir up such passion? :eek:

Yes, I must say when I started this thread back in August 2012, I never anticipated it would create such interest.

Many thanks to everyone for your contributions.:)

colm_mcm

ba_barabus wrote: »

Out of interest has anyone tried the Sandero or Logan?

Any thoughts on them in terms of how they drove?

I drove the original logan and it was just like a clio mk2 tbh

Havent driven an estate one but i cant imagine its a flyer

ba_barabus

I've sat into a base model Sandero and found it ok. Nothing to get excited about. It felt very much like a 2004 Clio. I never drove one though. I also found the seat base was too small.

MidlandsM

ba_barabus wrote: »

I've sat into a base model Sandero and found it ok. Nothing to get excited about. It felt very much like a 2004 Clio. I never drove one though. I also found the seat base was too small.

I sat into them all (a pal of mine deals in them), and I may as well have sat into a wheelie bin ......awful.

ba_barabus

MidlandsM wrote: »

I sat into them all (a pal of mine deals in them), and I may as well have sat into a wheelie bin ......awful.

I certainly think the Duster makes a much better case for itself. My thoughts on the Sandero was that it looked and felt too cheap. The stereo seemed good quality mind and lots of the switch gear is tried and tested.

carrotcake

ba_barabus wrote: »

Out of interest has anyone tried the Sandero or Logan?

Any thoughts on them in terms of how they drove?

I learned to drive in a Logan - actually, two Logans. One had no air conditioning - not great when you're learning in July with 30+ degree heat and stressing about biting points, mirrors, etc.

Later on I drove a couple of Logan estates on long trips. They're noisy and not the most comfortable (although not uncomfortable), but get the job done.

TBH, the thing I liked least was that whenever you started the engine the radio would come on automatically, and at a high volume. So nothing major. I know people who've had them for years, and they seem reliable enough.

For a car that starts at €6800 (used to be €5000 with rebates) it's hard to knock it.

MidlandsM

ba_barabus wrote: »

I certainly think the Duster makes a much better case for itself

not really, the cheapness is everywhere in them, right down to thinness of the weave of the upholstery.....very thin and poor. And the build quality with exposed screw heads and poor fit and finish with bad plastics looks like it was knocked together in a roma gypsy camp.........ohhh wait.........:D

delthedriver

MidlandsM wrote: »

not really, the cheapness is everywhere in them, right down to thinness of the weave of the upholstery.....very thin and poor. And the build quality with exposed screw heads and poor fit and finish with bad plastics looks like it was knocked together in a roma gypsy camp.........ohhh wait.........:D

looks like it was knocked together in a roma gypsy camp...... Oh dear!:rolleyes:

delthedriver

ba_barabus wrote: »

I certainly think the Duster makes a much better case for itself. My thoughts on the Sandero was that it looked and felt too cheap. The stereo seemed good quality mind and lots of the switch gear is tried and tested.

Saw a number of Sanderos in a a car hire compound in Alicante. They are new cars on a small budget. Designed as a mode of transport, never boasted to be anything more than a cheap new car.

Perhaps in the current economic climate they will find their place in the market. They are certainly a better alternative to a lot of the junk available in the secondhand market.

cabb8ge

I not sure why people upset at claims that the Duster a cheap feeling car. Modern Megane is very cheap feel and an awful drive, Duster is level down again. I not understand how people tempted to buy them new, €15k is a lot of money to spend.

barura

delthedriver wrote: »

Saw a number of Sanderos in a a car hire compound in Alicante. They are new cars on a small budget. Designed as a mode of transport, never boasted to be anything more than a cheap new car.

Perhaps in the current economic climate they will find their place in the market. They are certainly a better alternative to a lot of the junk available in the secondhand market.

I've been in a Logan while in Poland, I really liked the size of it and the dual opening doors at the back. Sure its not a BMW Touring but hey, at that price its a good way to get a foothold on a first-hand car that you don't have to worry about service history.

ba_barabus

delthedriver wrote: »

Saw a number of Sanderos in a a car hire compound in Alicante. They are new cars on a small budget. Designed as a mode of transport, never boasted to be anything more than a cheap new car.

Perhaps in the current economic climate they will find their place in the market. They are certainly a better alternative to a lot of the junk available in the secondhand market.

I agree and I get the idea behind them I just think the Duster does a more convincing trick in pulling it off.

delthedriver

ba_barabus wrote: »

I agree and I get the idea behind them I just think the Duster does a more convincing trick in pulling it off.

Fair comment. I agree the Duster is a more convincing offering. The Sandero is probably aimed more at the first time buyer or a a second car runabout.

I am old enough to remember Skodas early offerings in the 70's, absolutely no resemblance with the current car line up in the VAG stable.
Similarly I believe Renault will do a similar job with Dacia. Already the Sandero and Logan models have undergone considerable transformations in the last 12/24 months.

The Sandero is certainly a refreshing alternative to fishing in the second hand market where one could be bitten by the sharks. With fewer people changing cars for various reasons , there is a shortage of quality second hand cars in the market at present.

colm_mcm

I dunno del, Renault can't make Renaults premium, so before they make Dacias mainstream they have to make Renaults desirable.

In Ireland at least, the price slashing done a few years back with €8999 clios and €14999 Fluences on scrappage mean that's gonna take a long time.

Difference here is that Dacia is a pure budget brand and a handy brand to have for emerging markets where they can slap a Renault/Nissan/Dacia/Datsun badge on depending on where they want to position the brand.

I suppose the mk1 Logan is Renaults Favorit, the Duster/Sandero etc are their Felicia's, we have yet to see their Octavia.

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

I dunno del, Renault can't make Renaults premium, so before they make Dacias mainstream they have to make Renaults desirable.

In Ireland at least, the price slashing done a few years back with €8999 clios and €14999 Fluences on scrappage mean that's gonna take a long time.

Difference here is that Dacia is a pure budget brand and a handy brand to have for emerging markets where they can slap a Renault/Nissan/Dacia/Datsun badge on depending on where they want to position the brand.

I suppose the mk1 Logan is Renaults Favorit, the Duster/Sandero etc are their Felicia's, we have yet to see their Octavia.

Interesting points Colm,

If they could produce something to match the Octavia , they could make serious inroads. When the Octavia emerged back in '99?, they were seen as the poor man's Golf. Now???? Fabulous range, hatchback, tourer, petrol & diesel.:)

colm_mcm

That ship has sailed tbh. The market is completely different to what it was in 1998. You have the Koreans getting stronger all the time, standards of NVH from the then 'tinny' Japanese brands has improved no end, having strong turbo diesels is now the norm, standard equipment on all cars is now generous. All cars are pretty much the same size nowadays.

The Octavia is much talked about here (it went through a phase of being mentioned in nearly every thread) and its easy to forget just how monumental it was at the time, they launched it in 1996 remember, this was back when VW had the mk3 Golf, toyota were still doing the 92 shape Corolla, Ford had the Escort, Opel were still doing the 91 type Astra. Now I know we didn't get it till 98 but to be fair it was a pretty modern car for the time, sure they were selling mk1 octavias to mean people till 2010.

Back then it had a pretty auster interior, but things like the dashboard with its posh rubbery plastics and louvred air vents that closed flush with the dash were to a standard of the then recent Audi A3
You had the 1.9 TDI engine, again only recently killed off but back then was miles ahead of the normally aspirated engines in most rivals
The boot was, and still is - pretty much unmatched in terms of size
And it was cheap, not like now where its a bit cheaper than a a Golf, I mean cheap.

So for Dacia to make an arse-kicker like Skoda have, they need to have a platform that is new and get it before Renault does, they need to rewrite the book when it comes to packaging, and they need to put enough posh bits in so as to make the car appeal, but not so much as to make it too expensive, they need engines that are demonstrably better than the competition, they need to sell to people who want Renaults but can't afford them, and they need to make the car different to everything else out there.

Basically it'll never happen, but in the meantime, they'll clean up in other markets much bigger than Europe.

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

That ship has sailed tbh. The market is completely different to what it was in 1998. You have the Koreans getting stronger all the time, standards of NVH from the then 'tinny' Japanese brands has improved no end, having strong turbo diesels is now the norm, standard equipment on all cars is now generous. All cars are pretty much the same size nowadays.

The Octavia is much talked about here (it went through a phase of being mentioned in nearly every thread) and its easy to forget just how monumental it was at the time, they launched it in 1996 remember, this was back when VW had the mk3 Golf, toyota were still doing the 92 shape Corolla, Ford had the Escort, Opel were still doing the 91 type Astra. Now I know we didn't get it till 98 but to be fair it was a pretty modern car for the time, sure they were selling mk1 octavias to mean people till 2010.

Back then it had a pretty auster interior, but things like the dashboard with its posh rubbery plastics and louvred air vents that closed flush with the dash were to a standard of the then recent Audi A3
You had the 1.9 TDI engine, again only recently killed off but back then was miles ahead of the normally aspirated engines in most rivals
The boot was, and still is - pretty much unmatched in terms of size
And it was cheap, not like now where its a bit cheaper than a a Golf, I mean cheap.

So for Dacia to make an arse-kicker like Skoda have, they need to have a platform that is new and get it before Renault does, they need to rewrite the book when it comes to packaging, and they need to put enough posh bits in so as to make the car appeal, but not so much as to make it too expensive, they need engines that are demonstrably better than the competition, they need to sell to people who want Renaults but can't afford them, and they need to make the car different to everything else out there.

Basically it'll never happen, but in the meantime, they'll clean up in other markets much bigger than Europe.

Wow, did not realise the Octavia came out in 96.......time flies.
I think you summed it up very well, it is not the European market that is the priority rather the emerging markets. Nonetheless no reason why the euro market can't avail of budget priced new cars as a spin off from developments in other markets.

Any idea of how many Dusters or Sanderos were registered in Ireland this year?Just curious, bearing in mind the Irish market is approx the size of Manchester.

colm_mcm

830 dusters (all 1.5 diesel)
390 silver
297 black
143 white

308 Sanderos (17 0.9 turbos, 221 1.2 petrols, 70 1.5 diesels)
97 black
73 silver
63 blue
37 gold
19 white
19 red

17 Logans (all 0.9 turbo petrol, 9 black, 8 silver)

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

830 dusters
308 Sanderos
17 Logans

Many thanks Colm,

Not a bad year for a 1st outing, especially in a recession ???????

308 Sanderos, did they come into the market later than the Duster.??:)

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

830 dusters (all 1.5 diesel)
390 silver
297 black
143 white

308 Sanderos (17 0.9 turbos, 221 1.2 petrols, 70 1.5 diesels)


17 Logans (all petrol, 9 black, 8 silver)

Wow!

Interesting concentration on Sandero petrol sales

colm_mcm

Sandero is out since January IIRC

delthedriver

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sandero is out since January IIRC

Of course, sorry I was confusing the issue with a Pre launch/Demo of the Duster about 4 months ahead of actual deliveries. Hence I thought the Sandero came in a few months later.:)

MidlandsM

delthedriver wrote: »

Many thanks Colm,

Not a bad year for a 1st outing, especially in a recession ???????

308 Sanderos, did they come into the market later than the Duster.??:)

it's actually a very poor performance from Dacia as was widely reported, they're struggled to flog only a couple of hundred dusters on the 132 plate.

ba_barabus

MidlandsM wrote: »

it's actually a very poor performance from Dacia as was widely reported, they're struggled to flog only a couple of hundred dusters on the 132 plate.

If that is bad for a completely new entrant to the market then some more established players will need to sit down and seriously consider leaving the Irish market.

Zubeneschamali

MidlandsM wrote: »

it's actually a very poor performance from Dacia as was widely reported, they're struggled to flog only a couple of hundred dusters on the 132 plate.

It can't have helped that there were shocking delays on orders and terrible customer communication detailed early in this thread (like September orders for January which didn't arrive until April).

BdaraB

MidlandsM wrote: »

it's actually a very poor performance from Dacia as was widely reported, they're struggled to flog only a couple of hundred dusters on the 132 plate.

Poor performance? The Duster was the eight best selling car last month in Ireland with 77 sold in September. Dacia itself managed to outsell Renault even, but this doesn't count the imported Duster's, when I was home last weekend I spotted a bronze and a blue Duster on Irish plates which must have been imported.

dnme

I'm in the market for a CSUV at present. When I saw the Duster, I loved the shape. That blocky kinda jeep shape does it for me. But when I sat into one . . . Nah!

delthedriver

ba_barabus wrote: »

If that is bad for a completely new entrant to the market then some more established players will need to sit down and seriously consider leaving the Irish market.

Agreed. Perhaps Colm could advise stats in relation to other manufs.?:)

It would be interesting to compare the numbers with established brands like Fiat/Alfa.

If I'm not mistaken the initial quota of 400 Dusters were actually sold before the actual launch date of 1 January. There were also supply delivery issues until April.

I guess Dacia can't be too unhappy with their 1st year in Ireland.

In the budget price range a few saucy second hand sellers probably found it harder to shift their commodities.

delthedriver

MidlandsM wrote: »

it's actually a very poor performance from Dacia as was widely reported, they're struggled to flog only a couple of hundred dusters on the 132 plate.

Widely reported, where?

BdaraB

delthedriver wrote: »

Agreed. Perhaps Colm could advise stats in relation to other manufs.?:)

It would be interesting to compare the numbers with established brands like Fiat/Alfa.

If I'm not mistaken the initial quota of 400 Dusters were actually sold before the actual launch date of 1 January. There were also supply delivery issues until April.

I guess Dacia can't be too unhappy with their 1st year in Ireland.

In the budget price range a few saucy second hand sellers probably found it harder to shift their commodities.

Sorry I forgot to add in the link in my last post, here is car sales for September: http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2013/10/03/ireland-september-2013-bmw-5-series-1-again-seat-leon-3/

cabb8ge

delthedriver wrote: »

---

established brands like Fiat/Alfa.

---

.

effectively none sold

MidlandsM

delthedriver wrote: »

Widely reported, where?

it was in the papers, saw it myself - and just because you did'nt see it yourself delboy does'nt mean it wasnt reported.....:rolleyes: only 200 on the 132 plate is a poor performance, espececially for a bargain bucket cheap yoke that some where clambering to order, before the even arrived........but the game is up, as people have seen them now and seen how low grade they actually are, and are spending their hard earned on a quality used suv, mostly in from the uk.

colm_mcm

The figures given include UK imports

MidlandsM

colm_mcm wrote: »

The figures given include UK imports

which is a large percentage..

galwaytt

BdaraB wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to add in the link in my last post, here is car sales for September: http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2013/10/03/ireland-september-2013-bmw-5-series-1-again-seat-leon-3/

...and a good comment from that link which should be borne in mind...

"These (223) 5 series are sitting in dealers in Dublin. They are registered but not sold. There is a market share war in Ireland at the moment. 27% of cars registered in Ireland this September were registered on the last day just to boost figures. The S.I.M.I will not release REAL car sales data in Ireland as REAL sales account for 30% of the market. Most cars registered are Demonstration Models, Rental Cars, Lease cars and Pre Reg deals where the distributor register cars just for market share. "

Does anyone really think 223 people took delivery of 5-series in September, when the nearest car (by qty) a more modestly affordable car - the Golf - could only chalk up 125 sales, and the Focus a mere 88 ? Even the car-du-jour, the proverbial Octavia 'only' chalked up 75?

Nope, something going on here with numbers.

Roll-back discount on 'sold' 5-series must be huge........:rolleyes:

colm_mcm

Sure theyre advertising the nearly new bmws now, ex managers cars and showroom models.

dnme

Can anyone explain this whole pre-registering malarky to me. OK there's a market share war on. But a dealer takes delivery of stuff and registers it. Surely this immediately diminishes the value of the stock. It's now effectively used, timestamped and has 1 owner on the log book. So how in gods name does it work? Where's the benefit ?

MuppetCheck

Meet incentive based targets, gets a discount meaning they can sell it cheaper. To most sane people buying a pre-reg with minimal miles on an already cheap car makes a lot of sense.

dnme

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Meet incentive based targets, gets a discount meaning they can sell it cheaper. To most sane people buying a pre-reg with minimal miles on an already cheap car makes a lot of sense.

Are the incentive based targets not based on full value sales ? Otherwise why not just knock 5k off the things and leave the registration until the customer actually shows up in the showroom and says "I'll take one of them Jim". That would be even more attractive to the customer.

It's like skewing the supply chain. At the end of the chain, they purposely devalue the product just to sell it cheaper. Why de-value at all ? Why not just sell it cheaper ?

MuppetCheck

A registered car is what counts, then risk selling it for the price they need afterwards.

dnme

MuppetCheck wrote: »

A registered car is what counts, then risk selling it for the price they need afterwards.

As a customer currently shopping new, I can tell you that the discounts being offered for pre-reg'd or "ex-demo" are very unremarkable. I'm looking at vehicles in the 30-35k range. Best cash deal I have on paper is €30,800 brand new. I have seen same spec/trim pre-reg'd being offered at 2-3k more than that! literally, I am not making this up.
I have also seen pre-reg'd being offered at similar to my best offer above but with no haggling leeway. So from my own empirical data and experiences, the first thing I would have to question is - how many pre-reg'd vehicles are actually being sold. In my opinion it's a poor strategy, from my own observations it simply will not sustain itself and quite frankly I don't get it.

MuppetCheck

dnme wrote: »

As a customer currently shopping new, I can tell you that the discounts being offered for pre-reg'd or "ex-demo" are very unremarkable. I'm looking at vehicles in the 30-35k range. Best cash deal I have on paper is €30,800 brand new. I have seen same spec/trim pre-reg'd being offered at 2-3k more than that! literally, I am not making this up.
I have also seen pre-reg'd being offered at similar to my best offer above but with no haggling leeway. So from my own empirical data and experiences, the first thing I would have to question is - how many pre-reg'd vehicles are actually being sold. In my opinion it's a poor strategy, from my own observations it simply will not sustain itself and quite frankly I don't get it.

My father bought a pre-reg in Jan. Picked it up the day it was registered. With them registering it he got 4250 off list, if he bought it unregistered the best price he got was 2k off for the model he wanted. Funny thing is the one he bought pre-reg'd had less km on it than the brand new one. Depends how you haggle and who you are dealing with I suppose:)

R.O.R

galwaytt wrote: »

...and a good comment from that link which should be borne in mind...

"These (223) 5 series are sitting in dealers in Dublin. They are registered but not sold. There is a market share war in Ireland at the moment. 27% of cars registered in Ireland this September were registered on the last day just to boost figures. The S.I.M.I will not release REAL car sales data in Ireland as REAL sales account for 30% of the market. Most cars registered are Demonstration Models, Rental Cars, Lease cars and Pre Reg deals where the distributor register cars just for market share. "

Does anyone really think 223 people took delivery of 5-series in September, when the nearest car (by qty) a more modestly affordable car - the Golf - could only chalk up 125 sales, and the Focus a mere 88 ? Even the car-du-jour, the proverbial Octavia 'only' chalked up 75?

Nope, something going on here with numbers.

Roll-back discount on 'sold' 5-series must be huge........:rolleyes:

BMW were offering free Auto transmission on 5 Series models, registered before October.

Smart dealers would have take as many as they could in to stock, and if they weren't sold then reg them on the 30th September to get a €2,600 at no cost. Sell them for the retail of a manual and they are well up.


I also doubt there are anywhere near 230 sitting on forecourts. I was looking for one around the 25th September, and was only offered 3 from free stock.

Got 8 x 5 Series with the free Auto box, but all came through in August as I got orders in nice and early.

ThisRegard

cabb8ge wrote: »

Modern Megane is very cheap feel

If you're comparing it to an S class you may have a point.

listermint

ThisRegard wrote: »

If you're comparing it to an S class you may have a point.

Yeah i dont really get that.

Ive been in many marques and the megane doesnt feel cheap inside what so ever.