What makes a good citizen ?

Scioch

Laws exist to protect people and society. Nobody likes anti social types or those who seek to destroy the nice things we have in society.

Yet to be a perfect law abiding citizen is to be looked down upon as a dry shíte. A lot of people routinely break laws simply because they can. Speeding for instance, most people's attitude to that is do it as long as the cops aint about. Speeding causes a lot of road deaths, we all know this. Yet if you tell someone to slow down your a nosey, interfering dry shíte. Same applies to drugs and drinking related crimes (under age drinking, drunk in public etc).

These things are real problems in society but to even mention not doing them is craziness it seems and will get you dismissed as a loser dry shíte bastard who needs to fcuk off and stop ruining everyone's fun.

Have I been brainwashed by he-man and captain planet into being a loser or is the world just over run with selfish pricks out to take care of themselves without two shíts for anyone else ?

Kirby

I hear joining the Mobile Infantry guarantees citizenship....so that's a start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTz9nIUkGc

CreepingDeath

Scioch wrote: »

Yet to be a perfect law abiding citizen is to be looked down upon as a dry shíte.

Says who?
It doesn't take much not to break the law.

Being a perfect citizen though, probably means doing a lot for your community, especially if it's a troubled one.

marshbaboon

Kirby wrote: »

I hear joining the Mobile Infantry guarantees citizenship....so that's a start.

Now I have to immediately go watch this Movie again. Cheers.

Eathrin

Purposely breaking the law for the sake of not being a "dry shíte" is incredibly juvenile in my opinion.

You can obey the law to the letter and still be a fairly rubbish citizen. What makes a good citizen is being good to those around you, respecting people, helping others out when you can etc. Thankfully, there are plenty of good citizens around

Gee Bag

Kirby wrote: »

I hear joining the Mobile Infantry guarantees citizenship....so that's a start.

Watched it last night for the first time in years last night. Great Show!

Where To

People make the best citizens, much better than giraffes anyways.

crazy cabbage

Deleted User wrote: »

You can obey the law to the letter and still be a fairly rubbish citizen. What makes a good citizen is being good to those around you, respecting people, helping others out when you can etc. Thankfully, there are plenty of good citizens around

Then the next logical question has to be is it possible to break the law and still be a 'good citizen'?

Of course it is imo. Some laws are just silly and breaking them can expose/ highlight how silly they are. Anyone else?

Chucken

Where To wrote: »

People make the best citizens, much better than giraffes anyways.

Giraffeist :mad:

Scioch

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Says who?
It doesn't take much not to break the law.

Being a perfect citizen though, probably means doing a lot for your community, especially if it's a troubled one.

Says the general consensus as far as I've noticed. Take two thread in AH about under age drinking and working on the dole for example. General consensus in there is that to report under-age drinking or the sale of drink to minors is contemptible. That working while on the dole is perfectly acceptable.

Now this attitude I have come across time and time again in life. Whether in relation to people claiming whatever they could get away with, speeding when the were sure no cops were around, pissing in public whatever the hell. Its was perfectly fine to do those things regardless of the law surrounding them. But not only that, if you reprimand someone for doing it your an oddball or a loser. People see you as weak that you obey the law so strictly.

Scioch

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Then the next logical question has to be is it possible to break the law and still be a 'good citizen'?

Of course it is imo. Some laws are just silly and breaking them can expose/ highlight how silly they are. Anyone else?

There are ways to highlight these things without breaking the law. Breaking the law to highlight it as silly to me sounds a lot like a very convenient way to ignore the rules you dont want to apply to you.

crazy cabbage

Scioch wrote: »

There are ways to highlight these things without breaking the law. Breaking the law to highlight it as silly to me sounds a lot like a very convenient way to ignore the rules you dont want to apply to you.

Yea. Your right. That isn't how i wanted it to sound. Should have phrased it differently

question still stands though. Is it possible to be a good citizen and break the law?

NIMAN

We have had 3 serious road crashes over the last 24hrs, all single car incidents.

At 3 different occasions today, along the road in front of my house, the same idiot has driven past at around 70mph. He revs the car through the gears like he is at Silverstone, and I can hear him coming from hundreds of yards away, when he turns the corner to come on to the main road, which is about 1km straight.

What does this tube think he is achieving? Does he watch the news? Donegal has a history of young male drivers killing themselves and others on the road from silly driving.

I was considering taking the reg and giving it to the Guards, but I think they will just roll their eyes once I've left the station and do nothing about it. They would probably say "bollix to that dry ****e".

B.A._Baracus

There is actually a wikipedia entry on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_citizenship

someone actually created that!?

NIMAN

Of course its possible to be a good citizen and break the law.

You can drive 73kmph in a 70 zone.
You can not pay your TV licence.
You can download a music album or a film off the net.

Scioch

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Yea. Your right. That isn't how i wanted it to sound. Should have phrased it differently

question still stands though. Is it possible to be a good citizen and break the law?

Probably if you make up for it in other ways. But most people dont, they just break those laws to benefit themselves in some way.

Most people take care of their own business and keep to themselves in general I think. Out of those people a good citizen to me is someone who respects society and its laws and doesnt add to its problems, possibly someone who helps lessen its problems by helping authorities or whatever.

On the other hand if your ignoring the laws to suit yourself then your not showing respect to society and just adding to its problems.

ygolometsipe

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course its possible to be a good citizen and break the law.

You can drive 73kmph in a 70 zone.
You can not pay your TV licence.
You can download a music album or a film off the net.

Not true! copyright is a crime!

All criminals justify their crime's but its still a crime.

which would automatically make you a bad citizen seeing as your not abiding by all laws equally.

eth0

Scioch wrote: »

Yet to be a perfect law abiding citizen is to be looked down upon as a dry shíte. A lot of people routinely break laws simply because they can. Speeding for instance, most people's attitude to that is do it as long as the cops aint about. Speeding causes a lot of road deaths, we all know this. Yet if you tell someone to slow down your a nosey, interfering dry shíte. Same applies to drugs and drinking related crimes (under age drinking, drunk in public etc).

These things are real problems in society but to even mention not doing them is craziness it seems and will get you dismissed as a loser dry shíte bastard who needs to fcuk off and stop ruining everyone's fun.

Have I been brainwashed by he-man and captain planet into being a loser or is the world just over run with selfish pricks out to take care of themselves without two shíts for anyone else ?

The law is a human invention, a rather inflexible thing that attempts to cajole the general public into behaving a certain way regardless of the circumstances. It has its flaws, there are plenty of outdated laws that nobody obeys, ones created just for getting a few votes, some are only there because a politician would be blamed for any subsequent mishaps if he removed the said law. If pellet gun licenses were easier to get for example he'd be blamed for the next 2 year old to get killed or injured by one.

A lot of laws the guards wouldn't even bother with unless an actual 'interfering dry sh1te' called and they were under some obligation to investigate. Usually they can ignore the said dry sh1te but after a few calls being made to Joe Duffy they'd find it hard

ygolometsipe

What makes a good citizen ?

ingredients:
1 good male
1 good female
rum
coke
Barry white

hairyprincess

Where To wrote: »

People make the best citizens, much better than giraffes anyways.

You bollix, what is your problem with giraffes? Do they emasculate you because they are taller than you and have a bigger willy*?

*so I'm told

eth0

ygolometsipe wrote: »

What makes a good citizen ?

ingredients:
1 good male
1 good female
rum
coke
Barry white

Barry's tae as well. All good citizens drink Barry's, supporting the local economy. You can tell someone's a salt of the earth lad straight away if they bring you a cup of barry's

Scioch

eth0 wrote: »

The law is a human invention, a rather inflexible thing that attempts to cajole the general public into behaving a certain way regardless of the circumstances. It has its flaws, there are plenty of outdated laws that nobody obeys, ones created just for getting a few votes, some are only there because a politician would be blamed for any subsequent mishaps if he removed the said law. If pellet gun licenses were easier to get for example he'd be blamed for the next 2 year old to get killed or injured by one.

A lot of laws the guards wouldn't even bother with unless an actual 'interfering dry sh1te' called and they were under some obligation to investigate. Usually they can ignore the said dry sh1te but after a few calls being made to Joe Duffy they'd find it hard

But how do you draw the line between those farcical laws and those necessary laws ? Seems to me most people use what they want as a guide and then do things that way. Which is essentially ignoring the law entirely and creating your own.

In doing that you are undermining the authority that exists to enforce the rest of those laws you feel are necessary. So you dont want to abide by what others think is necessary but want others to enforce what you think is necessary.

girl in the striped socks

I didn't pay the household charge.
Sometimes I could be driving 40mph in a 30mph zone.

I also bring my elderly neighbour into town whenever she's stuck for a lift.
I support as many community events & charities as I can.
I generally abide by the law & have respect for people regardless of their sexual orientation, religion, way of life etc once they have respect for me.

I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I do my best & help people & animals when I can.

ygolometsipe

eth0 wrote: »

Barry's tae as well. All good citizens drink Barry's, supporting the local economy. You can tell someone's a salt of the earth lad straight away if they bring you a cup of barry's

+1 - Barry is the chronic of the tae!

Lando Griffin

I think this thread heck even the whole fourm can be ansewered by typing one name.... Katie Taylor.
She has shon the sporting spotlight sparring in the Olympics, has been an ambasador for this country when we need it most.
She is a beacon of hope for us meer mortals who has worked all her life to acheive her goals.
Im sure when she was asked in school "Katie what do you want to be when you grow up?" she would have replied " An olympic gold medalist in womans boxing" to which the teacher probably a man would have replied "Ha ha there is no hope sure there is NO womans boxing in the olympics so forget about that kind of rubbish and here is a leaflet on nursing courses."
But Katie refused to give up and now touches each and every one of us in a special way.

Kirby

Scioch wrote: »

But how do you draw the line between those farcical laws and those necessary laws ? Seems to me most people use what they want as a guide and then do things that way. Which is essentially ignoring the law entirely and creating your own.

In doing that you are undermining the authority that exists to enforce the rest of those laws you feel are necessary. So you dont want to abide by what others think is necessary but want others to enforce what you think is necessary.

Don't agree with that. There are plenty of laws not worth following and they eventually get repealled because of it.

Scioch

Kirby wrote: »

Don't agree with that. There are plenty of laws not worth following and they eventually get repealled because of it.

But is you thinking its not worth following justification not to follow it ? Surely you have to accept the authority of the law even if you disagree with it. And if you dont accept its authority in relation what laws that dont suit you then how can you claim it should hold for the rest ?

Thats not to say certain laws wont change or are ill conceived to begin with but there are means by which those laws can be challenged and changed and thats not done by simply ignoring it because you dont like it.

J Mysterio

OP is a dry ****e.

J Mysterio

ygolometsipe wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course its possible to be a good citizen and break the law.

You can drive 73kmph in a 70 zone.
You can not pay your TV licence.
You can download a music album or a film off the net.

Not true! copyright is a crime!

All criminals justify their crime's but its still a crime.

which would automatically make you a bad citizen seeing as your not abiding by all laws equally.

Some laws are bullsh!t and it is the responsibility of a good citizen to challenge them.

Where To

hairyprincess wrote: »

You bollix, what is your problem with giraffes? Do they emasculate you because they are taller than you and have a bigger willy*?

*so I'm told

Giraffes think they are they head and shoulders above everyone else. They've some neck to think that.

ygolometsipe

J Mysterio wrote: »

Some laws are bullsh!t and it is the responsibility of a good citizen to challenge them.

copyright infringement is not bullsh!t, its a crime!

challenging them is fine but that's not equal to breaking them.

breaking them is a crime and makes you a bad citizen.

previous user

someone who doesn't throw their f*cking chewing gum on the pavement.

kowloon

There's only one perfect citizen

Kirby

ygolometsipe wrote: »

copyright infringement is not bullsh!t, its a crime!.

Flashbacks of those awful piracy ads from 10 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU

Jaysus I'm whoring out youtube today.

SocSocPol

I dont think I know anyone who hasn't at some point broken the law, walking home drunk is breaking the law (public intoxication), having a dog and no dog licience is breaking the law etc.
To me a good citizen is a person who is active in a positive way within their community and society.
A person who has never broken the law, but who never calls to an elderly neighbour, or helps out with coaching kids at sport, or other activities within their community is not a good citizen in my book.

MadsL

Lando Griffin wrote: »

But Katie refused to give up and now touches each and every one of us in a special way.

That's a terrible thing to accuse the poor girl of! She's a good girl is Katie.

ruthloss

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106856/quotes

paddyandy

Many Posters on AH are incapable of sustaining a serious conversation ...they simply can't cope with harsh reality for any length of time .Some are not articulate enough .

Scioch

paddyandy wrote: »

Many Posters on AH are incapable of sustaining a serious conversation ...they simply can't cope with harsh reality for any length of time .Some are not articulate enough .

I think most people are articulate enough but they just dont want to accept that there is no justification for doing these things beyond "I do what I want".

Perhaps the hostility is just an easy way of avoiding justifying it. Their one line of defence is simply ignoring what they do and attacking others as dry shítes and losers and claiming they are the ones with the issue.

JohnMarston

A cyclist who doesnt break traffic laws

Orim

paddyandy wrote: »

Many Posters on AH are incapable of sustaining a serious conversation ...they simply can't cope with harsh reality for any length of time .Some are not articulate enough .

So why not ignore the jokes and engage the people are continuing the serious side of the conversation?

I agree with SocSocPol, it's about engaging with your community/society and making it a better place.

I think you would have to add a neutral citizen to this, which would be the type of person who doesn't take anything away from society but doesn't really add anything.

Of course the bad citizen would be the one constantly causing problems to society.

I don't think laws really come into it. Depending on the laws it would give an indication of a person but wouldn't use them in defining a good citizen.

Scioch

Orim wrote: »

So why not ignore the jokes and engage the people are continuing the serious side of the conversation?

I agree with SocSocPol, it's about engaging with your community/society and making it a better place.

I think you would have to add a neutral citizen to this, which would be the type of person who doesn't take anything away from society but doesn't really add anything.

Of course the bad citizen would be the one constantly causing problems to society.

I don't think laws really come into it. Depending on the laws it would give an indication of a person but wouldn't use them in defining a good citizen.

You not think those two points I highlighted go hand in hand ? Laws exist to prevent problems in society, to ignore them is to add to those problems. Working while on the dole is taking away from society, speeding is endangering other people in society, selling/taking drugs (for the most part) funds criminal activity which causes a lot more problems in society.

I think there is a difference between good citizen, and an active member of the community. If you cause zero problems, keep to yourself then your a good citizen, you can also be a good member of the community too by being active in it but thats not necessary to be a good citizen. Paying your taxes and not causing problems is supporting your community without being involved in the social aspects.

Orim

Scioch wrote: »

You not think those two points I highlighted go hand in hand ? Laws exist to prevent problems in society, to ignore them is to add to those problems. Working while on the dole is taking away from society, speeding is endangering other people in society, selling/taking drugs (for the most part) funds criminal activity which causes a lot more problems in society.

No not at all. A lot of it depends on context anyway. Take the example of speeding. Someone that drives around at 70 miles an hour regardless of location, yes probably not a great citizen. Someone that puts the pedal to the metal every so often if they find themselves on an empty motorway, probably not too bad.

And to really exaggerate my point, an ambulance driver who breaks red lights and speeds excessively in order to get a dying man to the hospital as quickly as possible. He is a bad citizen?

Scioch wrote: »

I think there is a difference between good citizen, and an active member of the community. If you cause zero problems, keep to yourself then your a good citizen, you can also be a good member of the community too by being active in it but thats not necessary to be a good citizen. Paying your taxes and not causing problems is supporting your community without being involved in the social aspects.

I wouldn't be massively against this logic but this is why I said I would probably have to add in a neutral aspect to the spectrum. It's not a black and white question.

To be truly defined as a good citizen I think you have to be actively working to improve things. (Also should be a white, land-owning man, of good standing with the Catholic Church, with an income of at least €100,000 a year and no mental or physical handicaps.)

Scioch

Orim wrote: »

No not at all. A lot of it depends on context anyway. Take the example of speeding. Someone that drives around at 70 miles an hour regardless of location, yes probably not a great citizen. Someone that puts the pedal to the metal every so often if they find themselves on an empty motorway, probably not too bad.

And to really exaggerate my point, an ambulance driver who breaks red lights and speeds excessively in order to get a dying man to the hospital as quickly as possible. He is a bad citizen?

Well the ambulance driver isnt breaking any laws as far as I'm aware. He is obligated by society to do what is necessary to save the life of the dying man.

I wouldn't be massively against this logic but this is why I said I would probably have to add in a neutral aspect to the spectrum. It's not a black and white question.

Just the fact that your not causing problems though contributes to society, you pay your bills, you add to local commerce, pay for services. You cannot exist in society without contributing unless you take more than you contribute. So I'm not so sure there is such thing as a neutral citizen.

To be truly defined as a good citizen I think you have to be actively working to improve things. (Also should be a white, land-owning man, of good standing with the Catholic Church, with an income of at least €100,000 a year and no mental or physical handicaps.)

Just paying your way is actively working to improve things though. Your paying for the services and committees and the wages of the people who's job is to actively improve things.

As I said being an active member of your local community is great but not necessary to make you a good citizen.

Siuin

Paying your household tax

Orim

Scioch wrote: »

Well the ambulance driver isnt breaking any laws as far as I'm aware. He is obligated by society to do what is necessary to save the life of the dying man.

Apologies, I had a quick look there and it does appear that I got muddled on the laws.

I'll try to respond to the rest later but I have a feeling we may need to just agree to disagree on this one.

CruelCoin

Scioch wrote: »

A lot of people routinely break laws simply because they can. Speeding for instance, most people's attitude to that is do it as long as the cops aint about. Speeding causes a lot of road deaths, we all know this. Yet if you tell someone to slow down your a nosey, interfering dry shíte.

Yup that's me.

Scenario:
A: Massive, wide, straight N road next to a motorway which due to bureaucratic nonsense it is limited to 80kph.

B: Twisty, narrow, cliff side road in Kerry with no railings. Speed limit here is 100kph!!!

Speed limits are arbitrary, and rarely take the quality of a road into account. As such, i ignore them.

I'm heartily looking forward to the proposed upcoming speed limit re balancing, where they are going to assess speed limits road by road.

eth0

CruelCoin wrote: »

I'm heartily looking forward to the proposed upcoming speed limit re balancing, where they are going to assess speed limits road by road.

That will be brilliant. The whole road stuck at 60km because of one bad section and an old dear worried about de children

Scioch

CruelCoin wrote: »

Yup that's me.

Scenario:
A: Massive, wide, straight N road next to a motorway which due to bureaucratic nonsense it is limited to 80kph.

B: Twisty, narrow, cliff side road in Kerry with no railings. Speed limit here is 100kph!!!

Speed limits are arbitrary, and rarely take the quality of a road into account. As such, i ignore them.

I'm heartily looking forward to the proposed upcoming speed limit re balancing, where they are going to assess speed limits road by road.

Have you actually raised this issue with your local TD or made any attempt to change the laws in regards to the speed limit ?

Or are you like the countless others who just dont like it for whatever reason and think thats enough to ignore it ?

CruelCoin

Scioch wrote: »

Have you actually raised this issue with your local TD or made any attempt to change the laws in regards to the speed limit ?

Or are you like the countless others who just dont like it for whatever reason and think thats enough to ignore it ?

Nope and yup.

My one little voice of "i'd like to go faster" would be drowned out by the army of aul' biddies and outraged pram pushers.

If i ask, i'll get rejected. I want to go faster so i just do so.

Back on topic, you can be a good citizen for always paying your way way. e.g: If you're undercharged, or if you're given too much change, you should always go back, tell them the fault and pay the proper price. I think really poorly of people who think it's fair game to steal in a roundabout way like that.