Post-London 2012 hangover thread!!

johne30

exiledelbows wrote: »

Most of the abovementioned big guns didn't compete in Delhi so not sure if they'll go to Glasgow.

the commonwealth games are of no relevance to us in ireland. nothr ireland competitors can do what they want.

Skid

Dan man wrote: »

I fear you're probably right but I hope that at least some of those who participated in the forum during the Olympics for the first time will have caught the bug and continue to contribute.

I think it makes the Olympics much more interesting and you look forward with much more anticipation when you have (a) heard of the athletes in the first place (b) have a reasonable idea of how they have progressed over the course of the Olympic cycle and (c) have more realistic expectations on what is a good or bad performance by an Irish team member.

Yes, it was very good following the countdown thread to 2012. It was great to know more about the ups and downs of the Irish Olympians (and almost-Olympians). I have to say I didn't appreciate how difficult the qualification criteria are in most Sports.

I think Dan Man's suggestions a few posts ago sound great. I hope I can help out in some way. I don't really have any great knowledge about any of the Sports but hopefully I can do my bit, in the Olympic Spirit

Silvio.Dante

Skid wrote: »

Tonight on BBC1 NI at 11.35pm (earlier in other regions)

Olympics 2012: A Golden Games
Eddie Butler presents a look back at the best moments from the London Games, celebrating the performances of global stars such as Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt, and British heroes including Jessica Ennis, Mo Farah, Chris Hoy and Bradley Wiggins

Also, there are highlights of the Opening Ceremony on Saturday at 1pm on BBC1 (2 hours 45 minutes of it)

I saw some of Eddie's work last night before the closing ceremony. Its fantastic. Will be watching tonight for sure...

Silvio.Dante

Dan man wrote: »

I fear you're probably right but I hope that at least some of those who participated in the forum during the Olympics for the first time will have caught the bug and continue to contribute.

I think it makes the Olympics much more interesting and you look forward with much more anticipation when you have (a) heard of the athletes in the first place (b) have a reasonable idea of how they have progressed over the course of the Olympic cycle and (c) have more realistic expectations on what is a good or bad performance by an Irish team member.

I'm the first to admit I haven't followed progress in the past...

Silvio.Dante

johne30 wrote: »

the commonwealth games are of no relevance to us in ireland. nothr ireland competitors can do what they want.

I'll be watching with alot of interest...:)

Clareman

Thanks for the heads up, timer set to record it

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'll be watching with alot of interest...:)

So will I. I mean, lets face it, about 90% of what we watched at the Olympics had no Irish interest in it. We still watched it all.

johne30

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So will I. I mean, lets face it, about 90% of what we watched at the Olympics had no Irish interest in it. We still watched it all.

no body in the olympics except the brits have to fawn to the queen . the common wealth games is for the empire . we thankfully despite all our problems are not in that empire any longer. pan america games. oceania games . african games . european games . all based you see on a geographical context . not on old empires.

Dan man

johne30 wrote: »

no body in the olympics except the brits have to fawn to the queen . the common wealth games is for the empire . we thankfully despite all our problems are not in that empire any longer. pan america games. oceania games . african games . european games . all based you see on a geographical context . not on old empires.

So what? It doesn't mean sports fans can't watch those competitions with enthusiasm. Plus we will see some of Ireland's prospective 2016 Olympians in action at the Commonwealths.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

johne30 wrote: »

no body in the olympics except the brits have to fawn to the queen . the common wealth games is for the empire . we thankfully despite all our problems are not in that empire any longer. pan america games. oceania games . african games . european games . all based you see on a geographical context . not on old empires.

My God!! You're right! What am I supposed to do with my giant Union Jack and blue white and red bunting though?

johne30

Dan man wrote: »

So what? It doesn't mean sports fans can't watch those competitions with enthusiasm. Plus we will see some of Ireland's prospective 2016 Olympians in action at the Commonwealths.

watch away friend no prob. just illustrating to you how stupid and outdated the whole concept of these games are. paddy barnes and co take part only because of where they happen to be living , but funny though that some n ireland competitors don't show the same spirit toward ireland (the island) in olympic games or other competitions. should work both ways . don't you think?

Dan man

johne30 wrote: »

watch away friend no prob. just illustrating to you how stupid and outdated the whole concept of these games are. paddy barnes and co take part only because of where they happen to be living , but funny though that some n ireland competitors don't show the same spirit toward ireland (the island) in olympic games or other competitions. should work both ways . don't you think?

Well as people from Northern Ireland can choose to represent either Ireland or G.B. at the Olympics then it's up to them. Some people from Northern Ireland don't share an affinity with the rest of the island in the same way as some people from Northern Ireland could never represent Britain. It works both ways and that's just where we are at the moment.

johne30

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

My God!! You're right! What am I supposed to do with my giant Union Jack and blue white and red bunting though?

bring it to the next european or world championships just like everyone else do with their national flags.

johne30

Dan man wrote: »

Well as people from Northern Ireland can choose to represent either Ireland or G.B. at the Olympics then it's up to them. Some people from Northern Ireland don't share an affinity with the rest of the island in the same way as some people from Northern Ireland could never represent Britain. It works both ways and that's just where we are at the moment.

but paddy barnes an co are representing n ireland even though they are not totaly happy about this but they buy in to the thing anyway and even stand for god save t queen . They don't make a big issue about it and just accept it, but how come it dose'nt work the other way round which it should and every one ,even the british will agree with this view. The rowers should have represented ireland in the olympics and could have their queen for the commw games and every one happy . it a reasonable argument i believe.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

johne30 wrote: »

but paddy barnes an co are representing n ireland even though they are not totaly happy about this but they buy in to the thing anyway and even stand for god save t queen . They don't make a big issue about it and just accept it, but how come it dose'nt work the other way round which it should and every one ,even the british will agree with this view. The rowers should have represented ireland in the olympics and could have their queen for the commw games and every one happy . it a reasonable argument i believe.

It's not really. Like Dan said, some people in NI consider themselves Irish, some consider themselves British. I'd imagine the majority of them would be far happier if they could just represent NI all the time as they can in the Commonwealth Games. The fact of the matter is that for most things they can't, they have to chose, and I for one do not begrudge them the one opportunity they have to represent NI on an international level.

johne30

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's not really. Like Dan said, some people in NI consider themselves Irish, some consider themselves British. I'd imagine the majority of them would be far happier if they could just represent NI all the time as they can in the Commonwealth Games. The fact of the matter is that for most things they can't, they have to chose, and I for one do not begrudge them the one opportunity they have to represent NI on an international level.

You are completly missing the point sir . Even the irish tradition in n i dont make excuses when it comes to the commw games and the accept it and get on with it and as i said even stand for god s the q . But when the boot is on the other foot then the excuses start . all competitors should represent an all ireland team on every occasion even if it means moving towards a neutral flag and anthem , rugby, cricket ,.equestrian and so on can come together like this and we need to end this n i , rep of irel nonsense in sport for onc and for all , this is a very valid argument and many people in g b are fully in favour of this in fact. i the sports that have come together are thriving north and south so this underlines my point. rugby , boxing, cricket, equestrian, motorsport .

Silvio.Dante

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

My God!! You're right! What am I supposed to do with my giant Union Jack and blue white and red bunting though?

Plus, I just got a cardboard cut out of Gabby Logan. She's the Queen of me heart...:)

Silvio.Dante

I was just thinking.............

Would it be an idea to set up a B.ie Twitter account whereby we can send best wishes to our Olympians and prospective future olympians when they take part in their respective competitions in the coming years..?

In this way the Athletes know that there is a band of Irish sport fans genuinely interested in their progress and maybe (just maybe) one or two of them might join up here and give us some insights..?

Dan man

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I was just thinking.............

Would it be an idea to set up a B.ie Twitter account whereby we can send best wishes to our Olympians and prospective future olympians when they take part in their respective competitions in the coming years..?

In this way the Athletes know that there is a band of Irish sport fans genuinely interested in their progress and maybe (just maybe) one or two of them might join up here and give us some insights..?

It's a nice idea no doubt but I don't think we could use the boards name unless you get permission and also boards.ie has a twitter account already.

Silvio.Dante

Oh yeah. I'd not thought of that...:)

K_1

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Oh yeah. I'd not thought of that...:)

You could just call yourselves ''irish athletes supporters group'' or something, no need to have the boards name in it.

Cardinal Richelieu

Dan man wrote: »

Yes that would be great

Basically what's driving me to make this info available is that it was fairly obvious during the Olympics that the Irish media weren't great at giving a realistic appraisal of our prospects for London 2012.
Besides, I usually track all of this info anyway so it'll make things easier for me and if it'll increase other users enjoyment of the forum then that'll be nice also.

Realism never works on the sports pages before a major sports event, well not in Ireland.

johne30

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Realism never works on the sports pages before a major sports event, well not in Ireland.

yea realism is in short supply. the hype about our olympics this year is a bit daft. i just looked up an all time olympics medals table and really our overall record is terrible in comparision to similar sized nations. n zeland have over 40 golds , denmark around 35, belgium bout 35 also. and norway have a medals total of over 300 . we have competed in 20 games and have a return of 28 medals in total and only 9 golds. atlanta 96 included. and have won them in only 4 sports altogether. so this should put things in perspective for future discussions. even turkey and iran are ahead of us , abysmal .

Silvio.Dante

johne30 wrote: »

yea realism is in short supply. the hype about our olympics this year is a bit daft. i just looked up an all time olympics medals table and really our overall record is terrible in comparision to similar sized nations. n zeland have over 40 golds , denmark around 35, belgium bout 35 also. and norway have a medals total of over 300 . we have competed in 20 games and have a return of 28 medals in total and only 9 golds. atlanta 96 included. and have won them in only 4 sports altogether. so this should put things in perspective for future discussions. even turkey and iran are ahead of us , abysmal .

All the more reason to restructure the investment programme I'd have thought.

I won't rest until we're ahead of Turkey on the medal table...:D

The_Kew_Tour

johne30 wrote: »

yea realism is in short supply. the hype about our olympics this year is a bit daft. i just looked up an all time olympics medals table and really our overall record is terrible in comparision to similar sized nations. n zeland have over 40 golds , denmark around 35, belgium bout 35 also. and norway have a medals total of over 300 . we have competed in 20 games and have a return of 28 medals in total and only 9 golds. atlanta 96 included. and have won them in only 4 sports altogether. so this should put things in perspective for future discussions. even turkey and iran are ahead of us , abysmal .

There not much that anyone could have done about the past. We need to look to the future.

You mention Iran and Turkey, but they have National Sports that are in the Olympics. Been to Iran and they have huge number of Wrestling Clubs and Weightlifting venues.

Just looked at table and yes it makes for hard reading, but at same time there are reasons also why we have not achieved our potential in the games throughout the years.

Also that table does not include the times when we were under British Rule and represented them. Not sure how many medals we won then, but it was quiet few.

Dan man

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

There not much that anyone could have done about the past. We need to look to the future.

You mention Iran and Turkey, but they have National Sports that are in the Olympics. Been to Iran and they have huge number of Wrestling Clubs and Weightlifting venues.

Just looked at table and yes it makes for hard reading, but at same time there are reasons also why we have not achieved our potential in the games throughout the years.

Also that table does not include the times when we were under British Rule and represented them. Not sure how many medals we won then, but it was quiet few.

Exactly....all-time medals lists are pretty much irrelevant to how we will hopefully perform over the next few Olympic cycles. Britain won 1 gold medal in Atlanta....a decade later they are consistently in the top 4 in the medals table.

It's a relevant point that there are other countries with similar demographics that out-perform Ireland at each Games but it is a point we have discussed so many times already....it's not as if we don't know this.

I'd be happy if we make gradual improvements in our Olympic performances, so long as the improvements are there....Beijing 2008 was a huge improvement from Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004 and London 2012 was a dramatic improvement from Beijing 2008. A similar improvement in Rio 2016 would be a superb achievement and if the structures can be put in place now, as little as 4 years out, we already have the athletes who can bring us to that next level.

If we had not improved since Beijing 2008 then I would understand the harsh criticism....don't get me wrong, a little criticism, where necessary is not a bad thing either despite the improved medal haul....but the general feeling I have is that while we are not a New Zealand or even a Denmark in terms of our Olympic successes, we are on the right path and have made vast improvements in our medal winning capacities over the last 8 years.

Silvio.Dante

Dan man wrote: »

Exactly....all-time medals lists are pretty much irrelevant to how we will hopefully perform over the next few Olympic cycles. Britain won 1 gold medal in Atlanta....a decade later they are consistently in the top 4 in the medals table.

It's a relevant point that there are other countries with similar demographics that out-perform Ireland at each Games but it is a point we have discussed so many times already....it's not as if we don't know this.

I'd be happy if we make gradual improvements in our Olympic performances, so long as the improvements are there....Beijing 2008 was a huge improvement from Sydney 2000 and Athens 2004 and London 2012 was a dramatic improvement from Beijing 2008. A similar improvement in Rio 2016 would be a superb achievement and if the structures can be put in place now, as little as 4 years out, we already have the athletes who can bring us to that next level.

If we had not improved since Beijing 2008 then I would understand the harsh criticism....don't get me wrong, a little criticism, where necessary is not a bad thing either despite the improved medal haul....but the general feeling I have is that while we are not a New Zealand or even a Denmark in terms of our Olympic successes, we are on the right path and have made vast improvements in our medal winning capacities over the last 8 years.

An excellent response Dan...:)

Clareman

Some great points Dan, another important thing to remember about these Olympics is that we'll never have as close to a home Olympics ever again, Murphy even said that she spent months down in Weymouth practising on the course, we'll never have the opportunity to place athletes so close to home again let alone not have climate, time or altitude issues to deal with, London was a success for us, it could have been better but we have to push on from it.

johne30

Clareman wrote: »

Some great points Dan, another important thing to remember about these Olympics is that we'll never have as close to a home Olympics ever again, Murphy even said that she spent months down in Weymouth practising on the course, we'll never have the opportunity to place athletes so close to home again let alone not have climate, time or altitude issues to deal with, London was a success for us, it could have been better but we have to push on from it.

this- Home games - is a nonsense / . other small countrys win medals in games far away. n zeland , danes, norway ect. all did well in bejing and again in london and in sydney in previous games . they just seem able to perform in any circumstances . if london was a good games for us i think i will go to mars before rio

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

johne30 wrote: »

this- Home games - is a nonsense / . other small countrys win medals in games far away. n zeland , danes, norway ect. all did well in bejing and again in london and in sydney in previous games . they just seem able to perform in any circumstances . if london was a good games for us i think i will go to mars before rio

Clearly you can make capital letters. Why not do it all the time?

Cardinal Richelieu

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

There not much that anyone could have done about the past. We need to look to the future.

You mention Iran and Turkey, but they have National Sports that are in the Olympics. Been to Iran and they have huge number of Wrestling Clubs and Weightlifting venues.

Just looked at table and yes it makes for hard reading, but at same time there are reasons also why we have not achieved our potential in the games throughout the years.

The domination of the GAA in Ireland? They started out as athletic clubs which over the years seem to have forgotten the Athletic part in the promotion of football and hurling over every other sport. Do any GAA clubs still do weight throwing and athletics?

GAA rules for hurling, football, athletics and weight-throwing were published in United Ireland in February 1885

The GAA is in an ideal position to identify young talent all over the country.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Also that table does not include the times when we were under British Rule and represented them. Not sure how many medals we won then, but it was quiet few.

That claim could be made by many countries such as Ukraine, Russia, Serbia in the all time medal table.

Silvio.Dante

Would the GAA be willing to genuinely seek out such talent..?

Pisco Sour

johne30 wrote: »

this- Home games - is a nonsense / . other small countrys win medals in games far away. n zeland , danes, norway ect. all did well in bejing and again in london and in sydney in previous games . they just seem able to perform in any circumstances . if london was a good games for us i think i will go to mars before rio

Difficult to take you seriously when you write so poorly.

johne30

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Difficult to take you seriously when you write so poorly.

Never mind the writing , its the message that counts. Any excuse

Clareman

I've been involved with the GAA in 1 way or another for a very long time now and I can honestly say that I can never remember a time when a local athletics club approached the GAA, in fact there seems to be quiet a "them and us" attitude in my area by the athletics club, they tend to ignore people involved with the GAA and give up, soccer and rugby however work closer together however and have even started working with the GAA to make sure that training and matches don't conflict wherever possible, in the past hurling and football training used to clash even. Saying all this, I would lay the blame for all the above at the feet of a teacher invovled in the athletics in Ennis, he has a major bee in his bonnet about GAA.

Johne does have a point, some countries do have a very successful record or exporting success no matter the obstacles, we should look to replicate this wherever possible.

Finally, the IRFU have taken a very positive approach in the past decade or so and appointed their own trainers to go around to schools and train rugby, no longer are they relying on teachers or people with interest to just do whatever they want, they are putting structures in place and if a school doesn't want to avail of it they don't have to, I think other sports will have to start taking this approach as well, especially athletics.

Silvio.Dante

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Difficult to take you seriously when you write so poorly.

Thats not being very nice...:(

However John, you do seem overly negative in many of your posts...

endswell

rte radio have just declared in an interview that "we all remember when the paralympics were held in ireland and the great excitement that went with it".

locum-motion

johne30 wrote: »

Never mind the writing , its the message that counts. Any excuse

If you want to get your message across, then you owe it to your reader to put it in a legible manner. If you don't have enough respect for your own opinions to do that, then why should I give them the respect of reading them?

marienbad

johne30 wrote: »

but paddy barnes an co are representing n ireland even though they are not totaly happy about this but they buy in to the thing anyway and even stand for god save t queen . They don't make a big issue about it and just accept it, but how come it dose'nt work the other way round which it should and every one ,even the british will agree with this view. The rowers should have represented ireland in the olympics and could have their queen for the commw games and every one happy . it a reasonable argument i believe.

Some of the rowers have represented Ireland in the past johne and won medals at worlds champs/coupe de la jeunesse etc - but as has been said it works both ways .

As for your point on all Ireland associations , I think you will find that it was in most cases we in the republic that broke away rather than the reverse- the FAI being the classic example. The more traditional upper class sports are, as always just one governing body- rugby rowing cricket. So i am afraid we have to look a bit closer to home for the origin of some of these oddities and in particular our need at the time of independance to reinvent the wheel.

As for the Commonwealth games - why not watch them ? When you watch the Super Bowl do you feel the need to dis the star spangled banner for instance ?

Forget the politics and enjoy the sport - I would love if we participated , it would be a great scale for development- 1 Olympics ,2-World champs,3 Euro Champs, 4- Commonwealth games . And it is something not too far down the line we could aspire to stage .

Silvio.Dante

endswell wrote: »

rte radio have just declared in an interview that "we all remember when the paralympics were held in ireland and the great excitement that went with it".

Oh dear...:(

cashback

I live and work in Sheffield. I asked the Sheffield girl besides me today was she going to the Jessica Ennis homecoming.

"Who's she?" Took me a minute to realise she was being serious.

A couple of hours later, 20,000 people turned out for it.

feargale

Dan man wrote: »

Maybe a timetable also with a chronological list of international championships on it for Olympic sports.

How about an annual notional medal table on an inter-county basis, crediting each county with 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. in national championships of Olympic-related sports ?

Dan man

feargale wrote: »

How about an annual notional medal table on an inter-county basis, crediting each county with 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. in national championships of Olympic-related sports ?

Haha, that would be quite interesting....would be fairly distorted though as many of the best athletes don't always compete at the National Championships.

marienbad

feargale wrote: »

How about an annual notional medal table on an inter-county basis, crediting each county with 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. in national championships of Olympic-related sports ?

I believe Yorkshire won 7 gold medals , I can't remember the silber and bronze .

feargale

Dan man wrote: »

Haha, that would be quite interesting....would be fairly distorted though as many of the best athletes don't always compete at the National Championships.

Too bad if they don't. Their county will suffer. In time to come I can see county councillors thundering against their disloyalty.
The smartest thing the GAA ever did was to set up its competitions on an inter-county basis. Incidentally they borrowed the idea from English cricket.

feargale

johne30 wrote: »

no it would not have been possible to compete in commonwealth games except as all on ireland team in every sport. no other com wealth country is divided like us , so politicaly it would be immpossible

Partitioned Ireland competed as a unit in the 1930 Empire Games, forerunner of the Commonwealth Games. Then all kinds of splits and rows occurred resulting in Northern Ireland competing alone in subsequent games, and Ireland boycotting Berlin 1936, the latter being a set-back from which we have hardly recovered.

marienbad

feargale wrote: »

Partitioned Ireland competed as a unit in the 1930 Empire Games, forerunner of the Commonwealth Games. Then all kinds of splits and rows occurred resulting in Northern Ireland competing alone in subsequent games, and Ireland boycotting Berlin 1936, the latter being a set-back from which we have hardly recovered.

Costing Dr Pat O'Callaghan the chance to defend his hammer title and become a gold medal winner at three consecutive Olympic Games

feargale

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Harrington has said that if Rory wants to do the right thing by Irish golf he'll play for Team GB so that more Irish golfers have an opportunity to take part...

Can you imagine a Hungarian athlete telling a Romanian-born ethnic Hungarian that he should compete for Romania so that more Hungarians have an opportunity to take part ? What has happened to Irish pride ? I have no objection to NIR athletes opting for GBR. That's what we signed up to in the Belfast Agreement. But if Rory McIlroy wins a medal for GBR I'll be as excited as a Dutchman seeing a Belgian win. How excited is that ?

feargale

marienbad wrote: »

Costing Dr Pat O'Callaghan the chance to defend his hammer title and become a gold medal winner at three consecutive Olympic Games

Yes, and probably a gold medal in showjumping. Also, the Casey brothers from Sneem were expected to do well in rowing. Who knows what else ?

feargale

chupacabra wrote: »

I suffered a bad fall in the mountains down here in Kerry last week so ive been bedridden with several broken bones and the olympics and indeed the daily diary thread have been great for me to pass the time.
Anyway thanks to everyone who made that thread what it was and for helping me get through a bad time. Well done to our Olympians and heres hoping for a great games in 2016.

Hope you're on the mend, chupacabra. Do you do mountain climbing ?