Newbie to Boards & Fish Tanks please help

suziek21

Hi everyone

i'm a newbie to boards so please be patient with me if ye can
i'm looking to set up my fish tank.
here are the details : bought it on donedeal - new never used 330 litres Clearseal tank is 91cm wide 46 cm deep 79cm high comes with unit also, also some lights, gadgets, bottles etc etc came with it also.
i've been to 2 petshops locally and they are both saying the opposite, i dont know if its sales talk or what, so i'm on here to ask people that have tanks what would they recommend
ok heres my questions -
1) do i use tap water or bottle water to set up,
2) do i use internal or external filter, and how much etc etc
3) how long do i leave water in tank with or without solution before i add fish
4) i'm looking to do a tropical tank, with fish that will live and be happy togehter, i don't want anything that will be dominant. maybe tetra's (neons), cichlids, guppies ( these are names i've been getting while looking)
5) what fish would you use to clean the glass of the tank and base.....
one of the shops said snails ??? the other said definitely not ???
6) i had a tank years ago and of course my ex looked at it, and after our break up i've wanted to set up a tank for sooooo long, i'm just about to move into house so i want to set it up to the best i can do.
o.k guys and gals, i hope i havent' asked too much off ye, i'm in the Mallow, North Cork area if you know of any shop with assistant that would give me good advice as appose to sales talk.

Denise90

You'll soon find the problem with info on fish keeping is that everyone has a different opinion based on things that worked for them. None of them are wrong and this can prove difficult for people looking for information. So here are some things that have worked for me.


1) Tap water is easiest, but it has to be dechlorinated. Prime is the best for this in my opinion. Basically chlorine can kill your cycle, and that is the thing to avoid at all costs.
2) You can use either, most people find external canisters better, stronger and they take up less room in the tank. Prices depend on if you buy new or second hand.
3) For a fishless cycle you can be looking at 4+ weeks (there are other options).You need to get yourself a testing kit and test the water while the tank is cycling to see how it progressing.
4) Community fish are called this because they get along together, most will live happily. Keep in mind though only SOME dwarf cichlids are totally peaceful towards other fish.. Rams are perfect for this.
5) A pleco or maybe a siamese/chinese algae eater.

fungun

make sure to read the 'cycling your aquarium' sticky!

denise has answered most of your questions but remember that opposite advice doesnt mean one is wrong - tetra and guppies are a nice, attractive, cheap way to start, but if you set up a cichlid tank, you will find that some cichlids are hardier and willbe less susceptible to some common diseases.
If there is one piece of advice Id give, its to plan out what you want first - let your tank cycle without fish for a bit and think about what it is you would like to have in there!

suziek21

thanks Denise and Fungun for replying back to me. good advice which i will follow. what kind of tanks have you both ?
i appreciate peoples advice and have read alot on the forums but i'm just a bit cautions on shop assistants advice :-)
do pleco's grow to a big size or stay around the 5" size, or is there different ones.
what do ye think about the snails ??? i've seen them in the shop and they look "cool".
yes i would like a "community of fish" nice and colourful tank is my aim.
i'm not going to do "live plants" yet as i need to get my head around this and get some experience ......
who taut a fish tank was just water and fish hahahahaha

Sleepy

Plants are worth looking into as they really help with water quality.

Common Plecos can grow up to a foot long or so but if I'm not wrong, your tank would be perfectly adequate for a large pleco. Alternatively you could look at a couple of Bristlenose plecos which don't grow much beyond 5".

http://www.aqadvisor.com/ is a great resource for planning a community tank, it'll warn you if any fish your interested in aren't suitable for your tank size or compatible with other fish you want to keep and gives a decent guideline for how much you can put in your tank.

Depending on your budget, for a tank that size I'd be looking at Discus, Gourami, Angels, Clown Loach etc. as the main "feature" fish and a couple of decent size shoals of small fish (glowlight/neon tetras, guppies, mollies, danios etc.) with 3/4 bristlenose plecos or some corydoras as a cleanup crew. Visit as many fish-stores as you can and take a look at their display tanks to give you some ideas and look at what fish they have in stock to get ideas of what you might like to have in your own tank.

www.seahorseaquariums.com are probably the best aquatic shop in Ireland so if you're around Dublin at any stage, they'd be well worth a visit. Again, depending on what you're planning to do with the tank and what sort of budget you have, it could even be worth a dedicated spin up now that the Cork-Dublin road is so good!

fungun

sleepy is on the money with his bristlenose advice. Also some plants require absolutely no effort to keep and help with water quality; I routinely offer my java fern on here (PM me if interested) as it propagates so quickly also!

Look online at different 'looks' of tanks. I have 2 tanks - a planted tank with bogwood housing cardinals, neons, zebra danio, clown loaches, cories, rummy noses, bristlenoses, swordtails & 2 angels - peaceful tank, with a black substrate so looks calm & relaxing. Then I have a cichlid tank which is sand-based with coral rock so very bright and much more active - perhaps a more interesting tank but not as relaxing maybe to look at. So its up to you to decide what kind of look and feel you want. But before you start, dont underestimate the impact of your substrate/decor/backing - it can really set the tone for the type of tank you are looking for.

Sleepy

Oh, one more piece of advice: take fungun up on his offer of Java Fern. I got a few bits of it off him a year or so back and despite having to throw a huge amount of it out when I had a tank crash on me the trimmings I'd added to another tank have left me with enough to plant two tanks again. It grows without any effort at all.

Denise90

suziek21 wrote: »

thanks Denise and Fungun for replying back to me. good advice which i will follow. what kind of tanks have you both ?
i appreciate peoples advice and have read alot on the forums but i'm just a bit cautions on shop assistants advice :-)
do pleco's grow to a big size or stay around the 5" size, or is there different ones.
what do ye think about the snails ??? i've seen them in the shop and they look "cool".
yes i would like a "community of fish" nice and colourful tank is my aim.
i'm not going to do "live plants" yet as i need to get my head around this and get some experience ......
who taut a fish tank was just water and fish hahahahaha

I have a 280L African Cichlid tank (beach rocks and sand), a 250L Marine( slow starting reef tank) and a 200L Axolotl tank.. although I swap them out regularly :rolleyes:
Depends on what snails they are, I have trumpet snails but they are purely just for turning the sand and are rarely seen.. to be honest I don't know a whole lot about them but I think they may be aimed at smaller tanks, I think a pleco would do a better job on the algae in a big tank. I could be wrong.. open to correction?
As said, some plants are handy to keep, are useful and make a tank look nice

suziek21

@ Sleepy, thanks for the aquadvisor tip i'll have a look at it later. i think if i go to Seahorse in Dublin i'll spend a fortune i've just looked at the webiste and i want one of everything :-) but yes worth a visit to be sure next time i'm in dublin.
@ fungun - where you based, if the plants dont take much care or attention i just might take your offer.
one of the shops said to me that live plants produce alot of seeds/crabs/snails/bits/etc that would block up my filter ??? so i'm not sure. if the live plants will help with water quality etc etc o.k i just might consider :-)
@ Denise - my god you have 3 tanks. do you want a 4th tank to set it up and i'll collect it in a couple of weeks hahahahah
yes i like the idea of the pleco but i dont want him/her to dominate my tank i think i'd go for the smaller/dwarf size ones.
and yes i'm changing on the plants idea form once i can just put it in and let it work away itself.
my budget is low at the moment so that's why i'm asking for advice, i should be looking for paint, furnishings for the house but i'm more interested in getting my tank up and going. must starting ringing a few places for filter prices and i think its an external filter i'll be putting in.

Sleepy

Buy the filter on-line, it'll be far cheaper.

Buying plants can introduce stuff to your tank but from a reliable store/fishkeeper it's *very* unlikely. Anything they'd introduce shouldn't block up your filter either. I'd avoid the store that gave you that advice tbh.

If you're planning on painting the room where you're putting the tank, do that before setting it up. A full 300l tank is pretty much impossible to move (also, put any backing on the tank before filling it for the same reason, made that mistake twice myself!).

Keep any eye on the forums for posters who breed their own fish, you might be able to pick up some fish for nothing (guppies, mollies etc. can breed like wildfire in good conditions).

And finally - add your fish gradually to allow the bacteria colony in the filter build up to take the load. Better to start with the smaller fish than add them to a tank that already has large fish in case the larger fish think they're dinner

Mr Whirly

Sleepy wrote: »

Buy the filter on-line, it'll be far cheaper.

Buying plants can introduce stuff to your tank but from a reliable store/fishkeeper it's *very* unlikely.

Or buy your filter from a reliable shop where if it breaks you can have it replaced immediately. I have had a filter break from an online shop and it took almost a month to be sent a replacement. Forcing me to buy a second filter to keep the tank running. It certainly was not cheaper.

Denise90

Haha if you were closer I'd help you out
From what I've seen, filters are pretty easy to come by, especially the likes of Eheim and Fluval. Join up to some of the Irish fish forums and check out the for sale section, there's usually a good few bits there for decent prices or as Sleepy said, online. Most shops here do replacement parts for Eheim and some other well known brands so you should be good.

fungun

im in kildare/outskirts of dublin, but can post them to you if you like. i sometimes travel with work to cork/limerick, so could try to organise a meet up some time either

tbf the one slight downside of the java fern is that there are so many offshoots i do sometimes just clear them off the inlet of my pump when i do a water change...if i dont then over time i can see that the water flow gets a bit less. Still, its just a 30 second job every water change.

suziek21

@ Sleepy - thanks for that advice. i saw a tank in the shop where she had plants in it and there was eggs/seeds or something like small particles around the plants, thats why she was avoiding it ........ but from a reliable source i supppose i can't go wrong :-) yes i've lots to do before i get up my tank running. this morning ESB is been turned on, plumber then arriving soon, painting cleaning and lots of hard grafting to do before i see fish swimming around my tank. i'd love to start this morning and setting up my tank but i must walk before i run with this :-) even thou i've the spot and all picked for it haha
@ Mr Whirly - good point, i'll take a look at both and weigh up my options ....
@ Denise - thanks, what fish forums would you recommend,(as im a newbie here)
@ fungun - that's great, i'll take you up on that off. i'll let you know how the setting up is going. when should i add the plants, at the recycling stage , setting up stage or when i add my fish ......
i'm sure i'm be on here for a while picking yere brains about this :-)

Sleepy

Add the plants when you're arranging the ornaments in the tank and beginning your cycle. And with Java Fern, allow space for it to grow

kylith

On the subject of snails I recommend Nerite snails, also known as Zebra snails. They do not reproduce in fresh water, though the females will lay little white eggs that don't hatch, and they are the best for algae clean up. I also have one apple snail, but he's more for looking at than being useful. Most snails will reproduce readily and some can overrun your tank.

Actually that reminds me; anyone got any assassins going? I have a ramshorn infestation that's probably reached epidemic proportions while I've been away the last week.

suziek21

Hi Kylith, thanks for you comments, i must watch out with the snails so they wont' overrun my tank :-) for a while it will be trials and testing for me i think. the more fish i see the more i want, i wonder do the bank accept loans for fish tanks and accessories ...... hahahahaha
best of luck with your ramshorn infestation hope you get it sorted !

CruelCoin

suziek21 wrote: »

Hi everyone

i'm a newbie to boards so please be patient with me if ye can
i'm looking to set up my fish tank.
here are the details : bought it on donedeal - new never used 330 litres Clearseal tank is 91cm wide 46 cm deep 79cm high comes with unit also, also some lights, gadgets, bottles etc etc came with it also.
i've been to 2 petshops locally and they are both saying the opposite, i dont know if its sales talk or what, so i'm on here to ask people that have tanks what would they recommend
ok heres my questions -
1) do i use tap water or bottle water to set up,
2) do i use internal or external filter, and how much etc etc
3) how long do i leave water in tank with or without solution before i add fish
4) i'm looking to do a tropical tank, with fish that will live and be happy togehter, i don't want anything that will be dominant. maybe tetra's (neons), cichlids, guppies ( these are names i've been getting while looking)
5) what fish would you use to clean the glass of the tank and base.....
one of the shops said snails ??? the other said definitely not ???
6) i had a tank years ago and of course my ex looked at it, and after our break up i've wanted to set up a tank for sooooo long, i'm just about to move into house so i want to set it up to the best i can do.
o.k guys and gals, i hope i havent' asked too much off ye, i'm in the Mallow, North Cork area if you know of any shop with assistant that would give me good advice as appose to sales talk.

1: Depends on what fish you want to keep. African Cichlids for example prefer hard water which suits if you have hard tap water.
If you are on mains water, then you need to treat the water to remove Chlorine and other undesirables.

2: For this size tank, you would need an external. You could use an internal, but you would be reducing the fish levels you would be able to stock. Externals as a rule of thumb cost more, and one for that size tank would set you back around 150 quid. Internal filters usually don't have the capacity to adequately convert poisonous ammonia through to nitrate at a fast enough rate.

3: You need a tester kit. Add some ammonia or fish food and turn the filter on. Once the ammonia gets fully converted to Nitrite, and then on to Nitrate the tank is good to go.
DO NOT add fish before ammonia or nitrite are reading 0 parts per million as both are toxic to most fish. This usually takes a few weeks.

4: Go onto google, and look for "fish compatability charts". These will tell you what species can be kept with each other.
One note on this, try to keep fish of a similar size. Most fish will eat anything they can fit in their gob, so big fish WILL eat small fish....

5: Snails can help but they breed like mad and can infest the tank. Suckermouth catfish can help. Also good are a fish called Otto Cinclus. But you will have no algae trouble is your water quality is kept good, and if your plants are growing.

6: Second opinions always help!

Hope this helps, good luck with you new hobby and keep us posted!

suziek21

Hi CruelCoin

thanks for your advice.
i've been looking at all sorts of fish and there is some cool guys out there :-)
i've decided on an external filter.
whats to brands of filters etc etc Fluvel, JBL, Eheim ..... what am i looking for
for example i can get a Fluvel 205 in the shop for 125-150 or buy one on line for 60 ex germany
i can get an Eheim 2215 for 69.90 or 2217 for 89.90
i can get an JBL CristalProfi e901 for 86.00 or e1501 for 133.000
Tetra ex 1200 for 99.90
which one is best, which one will suit ........ what am i looking for in a filter etc etc
test kits is another thing i need to look at .
also do i need an Air pump ...
hope you dont' mind me asking all the questions.
and there was i thinking, water, tank, fish that's all i need hahahahah :-)

CruelCoin

suziek21 wrote: »

Hi CruelCoin

thanks for your advice.
Welcome!
i've been looking at all sorts of fish and there is some cool guys out there :-)
Aye
i've decided on an external filter.
Cool. Takes a bit more work, but let you have more fish in your tank.
whats to brands of filters etc etc Fluvel, JBL, Eheim ..... what am i looking for
Eheim are a very good quality brand, Fluval is kind of budget, and JBL is middle ground. Pick one which suits your budget.
for example i can get a Fluvel 205 in the shop for 125-150 or buy one on line for 60 ex germany
Most shops will give you great package deals, which are worth a look. Also there is the better returns possibility from buying local. Again, choose whatever suits best.
i can get an Eheim 2215 for 69.90 or 2217 for 89.90
i can get an JBL CristalProfi e901 for 86.00 or e1501 for 133.000
Tetra ex 1200 for 99.90
which one is best, which one will suit ........ what am i looking for in a filter etc etc
You need to figure out how many litres of water your tank will have (after gravel/soil/sand/filter/decorations/plants etc. You may find your 350 litre tank may only have 25 litres of water in it!) After doing that, check how many litres per hour each of those filters can filter. As a very rough rule of thumb, you want your water to be filtered 3-5 times per hour. So a filter that could do 1200 litres per hour would suit you perfect.
test kits is another thing i need to look at .
The basic ones are Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate. Ammonia and Nitrites in any quantity are poisenous to fish. There is some debate on this, but as a rough rule of thumb, do enough water changes to keep Nitrates under 40 parts per million. After that you can get iron/phosphate/potassium etc, but these are only really important if you're planning on lots of plants.
also do i need an Air pump ...
Depends. If your filter outlet back to the tank is disturbing the water surface, then no, you don't need one. But if you shove tons of fish in there, then you will need an airstone.
During the day, plants use CO2. During the night, they use Oxegen. If you put lots of plants in the tank, have an air pump and run it only at night-time, to provide oxegen for your plants and fish.
hope you dont' mind me asking all the questions.
Not at all.
and there was i thinking, water, tank, fish that's all i need hahahahah
Goldfish yes, anything else, unfortunately nope.
:-)

In red above

suziek21

Hi everyone again

its me again :-)
at long last few tank has been moved to it permanent position
JBL 901 filter fitted, light and heater up and runing
filled with water last monday, added fish food twice to get bacteria going.
now what's next

1) should i have added some solution
2) how long before i add fish
3) what to do next ......
4) need to buy a test kit, which are the best ones to get

kylith

Get thee to ebay and order one of the test kits with the bottles and test tubes, these are far more accurate than the strips.

Add a pinch of flakes to the tank every day and monitor ammonia levels, you should see them go up and up, then go back down. The levels go up when there aren't enough bacteria to deal with it, when the numbers start to go down then the bacteria are building in numbers, when the Ammonia reaches 0 you can start adding fish, a couple at a time.

Do not attempt to add fish before the ammonia is back at 0 or they'll probably die. Be prepared for it to take a couple of weeks, or even a month or so, for the tank to cycle. I find that this is a good time to play around with the plants and general decor.

CruelCoin

suziek21 wrote: »

Hi everyone

i'm a newbie to boards so please be patient with me if ye can
i'm looking to set up my fish tank.
here are the details : bought it on donedeal - new never used 330 litres Clearseal tank is 91cm wide 46 cm deep 79cm high comes with unit also, also some lights, gadgets, bottles etc etc came with it also.
i've been to 2 petshops locally and they are both saying the opposite, i dont know if its sales talk or what, so i'm on here to ask people that have tanks what would they recommend
ok heres my questions -
1) do i use tap water or bottle water to set up,
Tap is ok so long as there is no chlorine in it. If your fish come from soft water in the wild, then you will need to soften your water, etc.

2) do i use internal or external filter, and how much etc etc
internal is cheaper, External is better.
A good rough rule of thumb is you want all of the water to be filtered around 4/5 times per hour. So, ideally your filter/filters will need a 1500lt per hour capacity for your 300litre tank.

3) how long do i leave water in tank with or without solution before i add fish
Read the cycling your tank sticky.
The tank needs to cycle, and by that i mean ammonia must convert to Nitrite and then on to Nitrate.
your filter should have the biological capacity to completely convert all the ammonia your fish will produce to nitrate inside an hour. Any less than that and you risk harm to your fish.
What you can do is feed your tank a pinch of food each day, and keep doing this untill the conversion process is established. After that add fish in in batches (NOT ALL AT ONCE). say 5 new fish each week, to give the filter a chance to adjust to the new load.


4) i'm looking to do a tropical tank, with fish that will live and be happy togehter, i don't want anything that will be dominant. maybe tetra's (neons), cichlids, guppies ( these are names i've been getting while looking)
Cichlids are best in hardwater tanks with no plants.
Guppies and other long finned species you need to be carefull on their tankmates, as some fish will nip at their fins!
A good rule of thumb is to never stock a fish that can fit another one of your fishes in its mouth. Once it fits, your smaller fish will be fair game!
Tetras are good starting fish, relatively hardy.
Neons have a red stripe going halfway along their body, but i would reccomend the Cardinal Tetra. It is a slightly fatter version of the neon, with a red stripe that goes the entire length of the body, and is less darty in its movement.

here is a tool for you to have a rough idea on what can go with what:
http://aquatic2000.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/fish-compatibility-chart1.gif

5) what fish would you use to clean the glass of the tank and base.....
one of the shops said snails ??? the other said definitely not ???
Snails definitely not.
Plecos are good, but Otto-cinclus are also good.

Pest snails will eventually enter your tank, and you can keep these under control with "assassin snails" and loachs.

6) i had a tank years ago and of course my ex looked at it, and after our break up i've wanted to set up a tank for sooooo long, i'm just about to move into house so i want to set it up to the best i can do.
Cool, i hope it goes well for you.
Just please remember that a fish tank (a good one) is a labour of love. The good ones take effort and planning, but the payoff is stunning when you get it right!


o.k guys and gals, i hope i havent' asked too much off ye, i'm in the Mallow, North Cork area if you know of any shop with assistant that would give me good advice as appose to sales talk.

Mine in red above, and good luck with the hobby!

I would reccomend you not go to a general petshop for advice, as frankly, most of them haven't a foggiest.

Go to a dedicated fish shop, you can find a list of the biggest and best ones in the sponsor section here:
http://www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum/category/list

CruelCoin

suziek21 wrote: »

Hi everyone again

its me again :-)
at long last few tank has been moved to it permanent position
JBL 901 filter fitted, light and heater up and runing
filled with water last monday, added fish food twice to get bacteria going.
now what's next

1) should i have added some solution
2) how long before i add fish
3) what to do next ......
4) need to buy a test kit, which are the best ones to get

API is a good brand for test kits.

The kit you want regardless of brand, should have a PH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate tests.
Liquid based tests work best (more accurate) but cost more.

I personally don't like using solution, natural is best.

Don't add fish untill your test readings are 0 parts per million (ppm) ammonia, 0ppm nitrite and whatever ppm nitrate. Basically make sure the cycle is finished first.

MR PIGGY

Hi suziek21,
Can you tell me where you can get a JBL E901 for €86 as i am interested in getting one.
Cheers
Mr Piggy

suziek21

Hi Mr Piggy
i purchased my JBL 901e at Zooplus.de

hope your german is good, or do as i did , just use the translate button :-)

hope this helps

MR PIGGY

Hi Suziek21
How long did it take to get it to Ireland and was there a shipping cost included.
Cheers

suziek21

No didnt take that long, maybe about 7 days. can't remember now.
no carriage, but then again i spent about 110 as i got food and other bits and piece and received 10% discount off that then, so it was worth my while really.

MR PIGGY

Hi Suziek21
Thank for the info. Just one more question. Where is the translate button?

BigAl81

Use Google's Chrome browser and a grey bar will appear at the top of the page asking if you want to translate the text.

MR PIGGY

Thanks BigAl81.

And thank you to Suziek21 i got that pump for €86.

Cheers