Father doesn't accept gay son

Jammy Donut

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I don't.

I was merely giving my opinion the same as everyone else :rolleyes:


Just because I think being gay is wrong does that mean I'm not entitled to an opinion?

The thinking it's wrong stems from giving a ****.

1ZRed

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Havnt watched the video, But I kinda do think being gay is wrong.

No offence to anyone but, there's 2 types of people men and women.

I do honestly think its weird that same sex go together, its like naturally penis goes into vagina that's the way its done. But 2 peniseseses together or 2 vags together just seems wrong.


I know there's more to it than the sexual side but still.

I'm kinda old school believe.

But a penis would also fit into the anus quite "naturally" and anal sex is practised commonly by both gay and straight people.

Using the point that sex is based for procreation, although valid, no longer has the same effect. Sex is primarily for pleasure nearly all of the time and procreating is not on the minds of many many people when the have it.

It's actually kind of funny because the prostate is in the rectum and gay men can get pleasure out of that and the clitoris (the most nerve packed area and more pleasurable area) is in easy reach so lesbians can easily have sex and get a lot out of it.

If you look at it this way, gay, straight and lesbian people can all get off and get pleasure. Not just a man and a woman having vaginal sex. So in a way, we are all designed to be able to have sex with the opposite and same sex.

marshbaboon

Jammy Donut wrote: »

I don't.

I was merely giving my opinion the same as everyone else :rolleyes:


Just because I think being gay is wrong does that mean I'm not entitled to an opinion?

Yes. Contrary to what you might think, your opinion is meaningless & holds no merit.

This is due to the fact that your opinion is based on non-fact.

pragmatic1

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Errm human beings and animals are 2 different things.

Humans are animals.

Jammy Donut

Fair enough,

Incest is wrong isn't it?
That's how I feel about gays.

It's hard to explain, but it is weird.

Corkfeen

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Fair enough,

Incest is wrong isn't it?
That's how I feel about gays.

It's hard to explain, but it is weird.

This is the classic scenario of a person saying something is wrong but having no clue why he holds this opinion.

WumBuster

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Fair enough,

Incest is wrong isn't it?
That's how I feel about gays.

It's hard to explain, but it is weird.

I think it could be all the religious brainwashing/programming from a young age. tbh, it can make me a little uncomfortable too for a split second when i see it but really it dosent bother me and I accept it and those people who are.

marshbaboon

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Fair enough,

Incest is wrong isn't it?
That's how I feel about gays.

It's hard to explain, but it is weird.

So... Why not shut the hell up, and keep it to yourself forever?

I mean unless someone is actively trying to put their penis inside you I don't understand the issue.

Jammy Donut

marshbaboon wrote: »

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Fair enough,

Incest is wrong isn't it?
That's how I feel about gays.

It's hard to explain, but it is weird.

So... Why not shut the hell up, and keep it to yourself forever?

I mean unless someone is actively trying to put their penis inside you I don't understand the issue.

It's my opinion, just because you don't agree you tell me shut up?

jill_valentine

1ZRed wrote: »

But a penis would also fit into the anus quite "naturally" and anal sex is practised commonly by both gay and straight people.

Using the point that sex is based for procreation, although valid, no longer has the same effect. Sex is primarily for pleasure nearly all of the time and procreating is not on the minds of many many people when the have it.

and the clitoris (the most nerve packed area and more pleasurable area) is in easy reach so lesbians can easily have sex and get a lot out of it.

In fact, all signs point to lesbians having better sex than their straight counterparts, presumably because They Certainly Seem To Know Their Way Around That Whole Area.

So an argument could be made that it, ahem, comes very naturally to them indeed. :pac:

marshbaboon

Jammy Donut wrote: »

It's my opinion, just because you don't agree you tell me shut up?

I'm asking a question, I never told you to shut up. I want to see you provide a factual basis for having your opinion, otherwise you just come across as being highly ignorant.

I'm trying to be constructive & helpful.

What is your reason for being so forthcoming with your bigoted, hateful opinion? Is it so meaningful that it just has to be shared?

Johro

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Errm human beings and animals are 2 different things.

But apparently homosexuality has been observed in over 1500 species of animals, so I don't think the 'but it's unnatural' arguments holds.
I don't get why someone else's sexual preference is a problem to anyone unless they were expected to participate against their will.

1ZRed

jill_valentine wrote: »

In fact, all signs point to lesbians having better sex than their straight counterparts, presumably because They Certainly Seem To Know Their Way Around That Whole Area.

So an argument could be made that it, ahem, comes very naturally to them indeed. :pac:

I'd imagine it's the same thing for guys giving better blow jobs/handjobs. It's because they know what they like from years of practise and not having to relearn or learn anything like straight people have to do with the opposite sex.

jill_valentine

1ZRed wrote: »

I'd imagine it's the same thing for guys giving better blow jobs/handjobs. It's because they know what they like from years of practise and not having to relearn or learn anything like straight people have to do with the opposite sex.

Well then I think the way forward is clear.

Everybody stop your creepy heterosexual deviance immediately, you're just wasting time that could be much better spent.

Einhard

I get where Jammy Donut is coming from, and I think he has every right to share his views. I completely disagree with it, but I know that a lot of Irish people, especially older Irish people feel uncomfortable with homosexuality. They can't really express it in words, they just feel it's unnatural, and therefore wrong. My granny thinks that and she's a wonderful person, so I think it's incorrect to have a go at such people.

IMO however, that changes when people start to actively advocate against gay people, and gay rights. That's when a line has been crossed, and they're not merely uncomfortable in a vague, nebulous, but actively seeking to damage others. Not sure if Jammy Donut is in that camp, but if he's not, I think it's only right to accept his POV and not gang up on him. Or her.

darced

This post has been deleted.

marshbaboon

Einhard wrote: »

I get where Jammy Donut is coming from, and I think he has every right to share his views. I completely disagree with it, but I know that a lot of Irish people, especially older Irish people feel uncomfortable with homosexuality. They can't really express it in words, they just feel it's unnatural, and therefore wrong. My granny thinks that and she's a wonderful person, so I think it's incorrect to have a go at such people.

IMO however, that changes when people start to actively advocate against gay people, and gay rights. That's when a line has been crossed, and they're not merely uncomfortable in a vague, nebulous, but actively seeking to damage others. Not sure if Jammy Donut is in that camp, but if he's not, I think it's only right to accept his POV and not gang up on him. Or her.

He compared homosexuality to incest in a public forum. I'm pretty sure he's well inside that camp, with his tent pitched.

I'll never have a go at someone for holding any opinion, I will however dissect it & explain to them how & why they are incorrect. I really quite pity people who have such limited perception. I myself might be guilty of holding the same incorrect views if I had been brainwashed enough as a child.

jill_valentine

Einhard wrote: »

I get where Jammy Donut is coming from, and I think he has every right to share his views. I completely disagree with it, but I know that a lot of Irish people, especially older Irish people feel uncomfortable with homosexuality. They can't really express it in words, they just feel it's unnatural, and therefore wrong. My granny thinks that and she's a wonderful person, so I think it's incorrect to have a go at such people.

IMO however, that changes when people start to actively advocate against gay people, and gay rights. That's when a line has been crossed, and they're not merely uncomfortable in a vague, nebulous, but actively seeking to damage others. Not sure if Jammy Donut is in that camp, but if he's not, I think it's only right to accept his POV and not gang up on him. Or her.

Folks like that may not be actively opposing equality, but at the very least they're the "good men who do nothing" while their gay compatriots suffer under unequal and discriminatory legislation, and present a hostile environment for young gay people to deal with.

It may be "just an opinion", but it should be confronted as often as possible, so that the people who hold and vocalise it might finally start to understand how absurd and irrational it really is to any scrutiny. It's not "just an opinion" when it helps reinforce an ongoing injustice, and it certainly does. They might not be aggressively seeking to persecute gays, but they help foster a space in society for that to happen. It's not "just an opinion", because it's not harmless. It does very real harm.

If so many otherwise decent people didn't harbour such a stupid opinion, they'd see sexuality-based discrimination for the outrage it is, and maybe the country could stumble into the 21st century sometime this decade after all.

1ZRed

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Could you explain why though from your perspective? I'm not out to my Dad and I have a very good idea as to why a guy would think that way but I've never really heard it from a man in a serious discussion.

I'm no where near the stereotype and I'm a masculine guy who happens to be gay so I get that why wouldn't want an over the top son. It wouldn't be my thing either but that's for a different reason.

Einhard

marshbaboon wrote: »

He compared homosexuality to incest in a public forum. I'm pretty sure he's well inside that camp, with his tent pitched.

I think he compared it to incest because he was scrambling around for something he thought unnatural that he could compare it to. Not sure he was stating homosexuality=incest.

I'll never have a go at someone for holding any opinion, I will however dissect
it & explain to them how & why they are incorrect. I really quite pity
people who have such limited perception. I myself might be guilty of holding the
same incorrect views if I had been brainwashed enough as a
child.

No problem with people chellenging these views. I did it myself. However, sometimes I think people can challenge them in a very hostile way, which makes others feel quite defensive, even when their thinking on the matter is very vague in the first place. As I mentioned, my granny thinks "gayness" is wrong, but she does so in such a nebulous, "old dear" manner as to render it harmless. She's met openly gay people, and never had any issues with them.

jill_valentine wrote: »

Folks like that may not be actively opposing equality, but at the very least they're the "good men who do nothing" while their gay compatriots suffer under unequal and discriminatory legislation, and present a hostile environment for young gay people to deal with.

Well now you're shifting the goal posts somewhat. It's not only wrong not be hostile to gay people, but it's wrong to not actively support them? I know where you're coming from, but I think that kind of attitude would actually set back gay rights. We've moved forward greatly in this country on the issue of sexual equality, and sometimes I think people lose sight of that. Harranguing people who are deemed not supportive enough of an agenda, even when simply not opposing it might be quite a step for them, seems to me to simply alienate people. Some people just feel uncomfortable with homosexuality- as long as it doesn't spill over into outright hostility then I think they have every right to that opinion, and to express it on opinion boards such as this.

It may be "just an opinion", but it should be confronted as often as possible so
that the people who hold and vocalise it might finally start to understand how
absurd and irrational it really is to any scrutiny. It's not "just an opinion"
when it helps reinforce an ongoing injustice, and it certainly does. They might
not be aggressively seeking to persecute gays, but they help foster a space in
society for that to happen.

I agree somewhat with the first part. I think such opinions should be confronted but not in an aggressive, hostile way that is often the case. Telling someone who genuinely, but privately, feels that there is something not quite right with two men holding hands or kissing that their views are ignorant and bigoted etc, simply does nothing to advance one's cause. Explaining, for example as anothe rposter did, that there are many instances of homosexuality occurring in nature is much better IMO. One can hardly hope to win supporters to one;s cause by alienating them.

If so many otherwise decent people didn't harbour such a stupid opinion,
they'd see sexuality-based discrimination for the outrage it is, and maybe the
country could stumble into the 21st century sometime this decade after all.

I think that most people who hold these opinions hold them in a vague, almost benign way. I think they can be educated out of their opinions, or at least that they're malleable. I don't think they will be persuaded to change their mind by labelling their genuine, if misguided beliefs, as stupid, ignorant, and bigoted, and damning them for not actively supporting gay rights.

Captain Graphite

Thread title is a bit misleading. The father might have trouble accepting that his son is gay but that's a little different to not accepting him full stop. It's not like his Dad threw him out of the house or disowned him or anything, and the son never says anything in the video to suggest anything like that happened.

As for those saying "oh he shouldn't have made this video, his poor father!" I don't think he really says anything bad about his Dad, only a couple of light-hearted jibes about him being useless with technology (my Dad can't put credit on his phone either!) These videos are made to try and offer some advice/comfort/perspective to other LGBT people who may be struggling to "come out". It's hardly like he made the video just to throw cheap shots at his Dad (who'll probably never see the video anyway!) Sure, the son wishes his father would take it better but it's not exactly an "OMFG I HATE MY DAD" whine either.

krudler

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Havnt watched the video, But I kinda do think being gay is wrong.

No offence to anyone but, there's 2 types of people men and women.

I do honestly think its weird that same sex go together, its like naturally penis goes into vagina that's the way its done. But 2 peniseseses together or 2 vags together just seems wrong.


I know there's more to it than the sexual side but still.

I'm kinda old school believe.

Just admit you're a homophobe. I really wish people would stop hiding behind some arbitrary "oh its how I was raised" nonsense and just come out and say they have a prejudice.

marshbaboon

Einhard wrote: »

TLDR

So to put it comparatively, if I were to say "anyone who isn't white is unnatural" that's absolutely fine? I'm allowed to hold & express that opinion without persecution? It's essentially the same idea...

..As long as I don't actively engage in acts of oppression of course. I'm just allowed to be "old fashioned".

darced

This post has been deleted.

Jay D

krudler wrote: »

Just admit you're a homophobe. I really wish people would stop hiding behind some arbitrary "oh its how I was raised" nonsense and just come out and say they have a prejudice.

Why can't people just accept other people's views? Just because someone doesn't agree with a certain thing it does not make them the extreme and hate it. Fair enough it would be good if everyone was more openminded but they're not.

Einhard

marshbaboon wrote: »

So to put it comparatively, if I were to say "anyone who isn't white is unnatural" that's absolutely fine? I'm allowed to hold & express that opinion without persecution? It's essentially the same idea...

No, two completely different things. I would equate it more to stating that interracial marriage is wrong.

And yes, a lot of people in Ireland of a certain generation wouldn't like it if their daughter came home with a black man. They'd likely welcome him, and keep their thoughts to themselves, but deep down they'd have a strange feeling that it was wrong. They'd probably realise that what they felt was wrong, but couldn't help it. Again, my gran springs to mind. I think there are better ways to deal with such people than simply tell them they are ignorant and bigoted.

..As long as I don't actively engage in acts of oppression of course. I'm just
allowed to be "old fashioned".

Eh yes, you're allowed to think what you like. Not sure I want to live in a society where I'm told what I'm allowed and not allowed to think.

BTW: What's the point in responding to something you won't bother reading? Never saw the point in that myself.

krudler

Jay D wrote: »

Why can't people just accept other people's views? Just because someone doesn't agree with a certain thing it does not make them the extreme and hate it. Fair enough it would be good if everyone was more openminded but they're not.

why will so many people hold homophobic views but not racist ones?

Daith

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's so odd...I'm into more sports than my dad is. Do you think being gay precludes you from enjoying the same things as a straight male? Not having a go just find it odd..

Ok fine I wasn't really into the womens volleyball at the Olympics (have you seen what those male divers wear?) but still.

Einhard

krudler wrote: »

Just admit you're a homophobe. I really wish people would stop hiding behind some arbitrary "oh its how I was raised" nonsense and just come out and say they have a prejudice.

BS. Does anything the OP has said indicate that he actually hates gay people?

1ZRed

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's a fair point I think. I know I'm not exactly my dad's carbon copy but I did grow up to be taller, stronger and more intelligent than him so we clash. I don't think that was exactly what he wanted either.

When I was dealing with being gay I did feel like I needed to overcompensate because I was taking a hit to my masculinity for being this way. That was definitely rooted to sex and comparing it a man and woman so there being a power balance present was immasculine. But I know I'm a strong guy who's into sport and exercise so I figured I shouldn't let that knock down how manly I was and I stopped comparing gay sex to straight sex because it is it's own thing. Two guys not a guy and a girl. Once I stopped that I started to realise that if anything, two masculine strong guys having sex was actually very masculine and nothing to throw down on myself for.
It's a process and if you're son turns out gay, it's very unlikely, it will be a process for him to realise that and get over it and then eventually you would too and not take it as a hit to either of your masculinity.

Anyway man, way off the track with that but I'm just trying to let you see what it's like from my view on that point. But I doubt you'd have anything to think of if you said you'd be acceptant of it that's the best mentality.

WumBuster

marshbaboon

Einhard wrote: »

No, two completely different things. I would equate it more to stating that interracial marriage is wrong.

That's nonsensical. The comparison I made was apt, we're not discussing gay marriage here.

Einhard wrote: »

yes, you're allowed to think what you like. Not sure I want to live in a society where I'm told what I'm allowed and not allowed to think.

Clearly you didn't read my post. I said expressing the opinion. I'm not allowed to go around saying I think black people are "unnatural" nor should I be even if I did hold that opinion.

A person can think about anything they wish as I don't have to hear about it.

It's not ok to express these kinds of opinions & it never was. We need to refuse to accept it. Anyone who is complacent & accepts such ignorance is fuelling hatred.

I snipped your post to TLDR because it's rubbish, obviously I read it.

krudler

Einhard wrote: »

BS. Does anything the OP has said indicate that he actually hates gay people?

no but thinking gay people are doing something "wrong" is homophobic, end of. Its like saying "blacks and whites marrying is wrong, but I'm not racist".

Einhard

marshbaboon wrote: »

That's nonsensical. The comparison I made was apt, we're not discussing gay marriage here.

It's not at all apt, because nobody would argue that being of one skin colour or another is right or wrong. They might argue that one or another is better, but not that one ir right and the other is correct. Your comparision doesn't make any sense.

A person can think about anything they wish as I don't have to hear about it.

What an illiberal concept. People can have opinons but may never express them?

It's not ok to express these kinds of opinions & it never was. We need to
refuse to accept it. Anyone who is complacent & accepts such ignorance is
fuelling hatred.

What absolute tosh. I don't belie my granny is fuelling hatred, and I think she'd be surpised to hear it too. Many people of a certain generation have a vague notion that homosexuality is wrong. They have generally not been exposed to it in their lives, and thus have never had their ideas on it challenged. Many are open to being persuaded against their beliefs, but not by the likes of you who, ironically, come across as extremely intolerant of anything but your own narrow orthodoxy. Those people who have some unease about homosexuality, but who don't hold a strong opinion on the matter, are n't going to be persuaded by being labelled as ignorant, homophoic bigots by the likes of you.

I snipped your post to TLDR because it's rubbish, obviously I read
it.

When you type Too Long Didn't Read it's not exactly obvious that you didn't read it, is it?

I consider myself extremely liberal on matter such as this. I support full equity in all things, and I try when I can to persuade people to my point of view. People like you, on the other hand, seem more intent on the gratification that comes with self-indulgent outrage. You'd rather shout bigot and homophobe than engage in some discussion. And worst of all you think you're advancing some progressive, gay agenda. My arse you are. You merely antagonise people, and force them into defensives positons, when quote often they are ready, after some discussion to change their positions. But hey, keep ranting at people who hold different opinons. Won't do anything to change their opinions, but I'm sure it makes you feel great.

Einhard

krudler wrote: »

no but thinking gay people are doing something "wrong" is homophobic, end of. Its like saying "blacks and whites marrying is wrong, but I'm not racist".

I don't think it necessarily is racist. Racism indicates a hatred of a particular race. I'll come back to my gran as an example...my cousin in England married a black man. My granny was in her 80s at the time. We used have fun then asking how she'd feel if such a thing happened, and we'd get a laugh by the concerned look on her face...."ooooh, I dunno if I'd like that"....that kind of thing. Now she had met black people before, and never had any issue with them. And she's never had any issue with my cousin's husband. Just sees him as part of the family. Now, you might state she's a racist, but I don;t think the evidence backs it up. I think that some people of a certain generation have these thoughts and opinions. They usually fall apart under any scrutiny, and are genrally not deeply held. To call them homophobic or racist because they happen to have them is a misreading of the situation I think, and prcludes any kind of constructive apporach.

Martyn1989

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Havnt watched the video, But I kinda do think being gay is wrong.

No offence to anyone but, there's 2 types of people men and women.

I do honestly think its weird that same sex go together, its like naturally penis goes into vagina that's the way its done. But 2 peniseseses together or 2 vags together just seems wrong.


I know there's more to it than the sexual side but still.

I'm kinda old school believe.

No it dosn't

Dude111

Sad........... Parents should stand by thier kids NO MATTER WHAT!!

Atomicjuicer

Inbox wrote: »

All these gay lads are too sensitive a bit like women actually.

Mod: Banned

Why was this poster banned?

Pdfile

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

Why was this poster banned?

cause the poster was being homophobic and the mac daddy didn't accept him.

oh the irony.

Fuinseog

Millicent wrote: »

Eh?

i know several people who would have been anti gay, even hostile, in the nineties and are now gay friendly. whichever way the wind of change doth blow.

why have attitudes suddenly become so tolerant?

Fuinseog

paddyandy wrote: »

I hope being Gay is'nt made compulsory as i would'nt like it at all ...jeeeeeez .

it may well be compulsory and only homophobes will not accept this.

efb

Fuinseog wrote: »

i know several people who would have been anti gay, even hostile, in the nineties and are now gay friendly. whichever way the wind of change doth blow.

why have attitudes suddenly become so tolerant?

Knowledge

Fuinseog

Atomicjuicer wrote: »

Why was this poster banned?

because he expressed an anti gay opinion. some gays are quite effeminate and others are quite the opposite. You have the butch and the queen, the man an the 'woman' . i do not think the gay community will disagree.

Fuinseog

efb wrote: »

Knowledge

explain

Fuinseog

efb wrote: »

Knowledge

there were well known gays here in the eighties. norris was always out of the closet and I am sure he tried to enlighten folks, but we just laughed at him. You had gay authors such as wilde. the main reason he was not studied in school was more because he was a protestant.

Fuinseog

krudler wrote: »

Just admit you're a homophobe. I really wish people would stop hiding behind some arbitrary "oh its how I was raised" nonsense and just come out and say they have a prejudice.

.
homophobe is a much misused word and used mainly to intimidate like the term racist.
phobe suggest fear. not liking the lifestyle is hardly linked to fear.

such heteros wold not like hetero porn stars, but that does not make em hetereophobes

efb

Fuinseog wrote: »

explain

People learned the truth about gay people and not just the lies about them being sexual deviants that were being peddled by some prominent sectors of society

tbh

marshbaboon wrote: »

I'll never have a go at someone for holding any opinion, I will however dissect it & explain to them how & why they are incorrect. I really quite pity people who have such limited perception. I myself might be guilty of holding the same incorrect views if I had been brainwashed enough as a child.

With respect - there is his opinion, and there is your opinion. Neither of you are expressing facts, so therefore neither opinion is right or wrong. All either of you are doing is expressing points of view.

marshbaboon wrote: »

So to put it comparatively, if I were to say "anyone who isn't white is unnatural" that's absolutely fine? I'm allowed to hold & express that opinion without persecution? It's essentially the same idea...
..As long as I don't actively engage in acts of oppression of course.

Essentially, yes. As long as you don't actively engage in acts of oppression, you can think whatever you like. Do you find it even the tiniest bit ironic that you would probably classify yourself as a liberal and him as a conservative, and yet you're the one trying to force him to accept your point of view?

Fuinseog

efb wrote: »

People learned the truth about gay people and not just the lies about them being sexual deviants that were being peddled by some prominent sectors of society

not sure what you mean with the truth about gays. anal sex is hardly a natural act. if some guys have fun doing it thats their little pleasure but to present it as natural and it is very much the elephant in the room.

gayness has been pushed down our throats and folks theses days are afraid to say anything against them. the funny thing is that gays can be equally intolerant but their intolerance is entertained cos only a homophobe would take them up on it.

tbh

Fuinseog wrote: »

. anal sex is hardly a natural act.

Define "natural"