Father doesn't accept gay son

Penn

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

My own opinion of it would be that if it's completely consensual and both are of legal age, it's okay.

floggg

Jammy Donut wrote: »

People will find holes in EVERY argument. Just because you see or hear what you want.

I was asked to explain why I think what I do and I provided it.

What do ye want me to do? Bum me so I see what it's like. :rolleyes:

The only thing your post is explained is that your reasoning for not liking gay is based on what can most generously be described as misinformation, and probably more accurately straight up lies and bull****.

People have already pointed out why your "reasons" were absurd, but here's a few comments of my own:

1. How does gay sex "hinder" procreation? two men having sex doesn't make a third woman infertile.

2. To say marriage equality would lead to a man being allowed marry a dog is insulting as it suggests the two are somehow comparable. I personally find that quite offensive.

3. Did you choose to be straight? Did you stop one day and say "I could really see myself having sex with either men or women but I think I'll decide to pick women"?

If you didn't, then why the hell would you assume that sexual orientation was a choice for other but not for you?

If you did, then your bisexual.

And if your not gay/bisexual, and never have been, how the hell can you assert as a fact something that you have no experience or understanding of whatsoever?

4. Most gays aren't very feminine. Clearly you don't know that many of them if you think we are all a cliche.

I can understand why gay people wouldn't want to spend much time in your presence though.

5. Since you say you're not religious, you know then that Adam and Eve didn't exist, yes?

In which case, you can hardly use them to justify your point.

6. Nobody said the first four people on the planet were gay.

You should know that the bible origin story and evolution are more or less incompatible. So referring to the bible and evolution in the same point renders both meaningless.

Smart people like Richard Dawkins have said there's nothing whatsoever about homosexuality which is inconsistent with evolution though.

Also, the "first four people on the planet" were the result of evolution, not the cause of it.

5. You might think sex should be kept in the bedroom, fair enough. But that applies equally to straight people (who push it in your face way more) and gays, so it has no bearing on whether or not you think homosexuality is natural or should be tolerated.

7. If its "built into kids" that there is something unnatural, wouldn't the younger generation be the most intolerant. Funny how that's not the case, is it?

8. You don't get free speech, do you? Yes, you are allowed express your views publicly. And we're allowed disagree with them publicly. It's a great system.

It wouldn't be very free if we weren't allowed to respond to you though, would it.


Note - I am fully aware of the old saying "Never argue with fools. From a Distance people can't tell who is who."

It's a very slow day in work though, and I need something easy and unchallenging to do. And while I know Jammy Donut won't change his mind, for anybody else reading this, I'd hate to see such ignorance go unchecked

WumBuster

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

I think its legal down in Roscommon

later12

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

No, I don't.

I don't think we've travelled very far along the road of liberalizing our attitudes towards relationships; we seem to think it all ends with the gays.

The anti-gay rights brigade were right about one thing, imo; re-addressing our attitudes to homosexual relationships does require us to recalibrate how we regard monogamy, incest, and how the state recognizes loving relationships of either a sexual or platonic nature, and associated issues. I have a hard time coming to terms with society's somewhat rigid and perhaps illogical position on these matters, and I think they will have to be addressed sooner or later.

Colmustard

rochey84 wrote: »

I don't know if you're gay or straight or bisexual, asexual, etc. But I know that a gay man panics so much about the reaction of parents esp parents, he didn't told of his father's indifference (I think I'd need to watch it again) he slagged off the older generation in terms of his father's dislike/not-understanding of technology. He made the video to help others understand that even though the biggest step in a gay person's life it isn't all that big a deal with to the people in our lives, if my memory of the video is correct the person in the Video, Brian, who is also a user on here, never once said that his dad disowned him or didn't accept him, he just had a difficult time adjusting to the fact that his son was gay. The title of the Thread is a little misleading to be honest!

I didn't watch the video I just assumed by the title of the thread that that was what it was about. It is not just van older generational thing. There are groups with-in the Gay community to assist parents who need to talk about their child's gay sexuality. It still and always will be difficult to accept by some. Parents want grandchildren weddings what they perceive as normality for their children.

Things are changing. But it still will always be difficult. That has to be understood.

rochey84

Colmustard wrote: »

I didn't watch the video I just assumed by the title of the thread that that was what it was about. It is not just van older generational thing. There are groups with-in the Gay community to assist parents who need to talk about their child's gay sexuality. It still and always will be difficult to accept by some. Parents want grandchildren weddings what they perceive as normality for their children.

Things are changing. But it still will always be difficult. That has to be understood.

I wouldn't even attempt to argue that but I think and the person in the video is open to correct me here, that the point of the video is that even if you don't have your parents jumping up and down for joy it doesn't mean that they love you any less!

AEDIC

bp1989 wrote: »

Oh, and for what it's worth, the YouTube video is mine. Reading views like Jammy's make me so happy I posted it.

Do you not think it humiliates your father in any way at all? Posting that clip may help you and others, but how does it make your father feel? Did that enter your thought process at all? (not judging or criticising, but asking a question).

Sorry for bringing the thread back to the OP and all that but genuinely interested.

It must be a difficult situation for you and one that I can not possibly put myself in or imagine how difficult it must be, but that comment would be the same for both you and your father.

seamus

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

Define "wrong"?

Do I find it distasteful? Yes. Would I pass judgement and make jokes about it in the pub? Probably.
Would I abuse them in the street, or try to interfere with what they were doing and have them stopped or arrested? Absolutely not. Because what two grown adults do which has no effect on me or on anyone else is none of my f*cking business.

joyced

RedRightHand wrote: »

Young fella has row with father, whines about it on YouTube. I'm not bothered.

why put something up so

joyced

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have you seen the rest of his youtube videos, if I was his dad i'd be moving house.

you must be very interested in him if u viewing all his videos

floggg

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

What's the relevance to this thread?

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

Define "wrong"?

Do I find it distasteful? Yes. Would I pass judgement and make jokes about it in the pub? Probably.
Would I try to interfere with what they were doing and have them stopped or arrested? Absolutely not. Because what two grown adults do which has no effect on me or on anyone else is none of my f*cking business.

Except, incestuous sexual relationships do have a massive effect on people not involved in the relationship. I'd be utterly surprised if the vast majority of incestuous relationships do not end up causing huge problems for the rest of the family.

bp1989

AEDIC wrote: »

Do you not think it humiliates your father in any way at all? Posting that clip may help you and others, but how does it make your father feel? Did that enter your thought process at all? (not judging or criticising, but asking a question).

No, I don't think so, and that certainly wasn't my intention. I love my father.

In all honestly, the only reason I spoke about his reaction at all is because I thought it was funny. I never insulted my father. It was merely intended as a lighthearted end to the video, and I think the expression on my face as I spoke about it perpetuates that.

Besides, it was just a small part of the 6+ minute video; the OP just chose to pick that part out specifically.

The video was intended for closeted gay people, and there are hundreds, if not thousands, more like it on YouTube.

Lyaiera

The reasons against incest is that there's far more likelihood for the relationship to be based on abuse. If they're long lost sisters who grew up separate to each other and never met, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But someone going out with their little brother now they're adults to me would be indicative of an unhealthy childhood relationship rather than an actual mental, emotional, and physical attraction.

joyced

Red21 wrote: »

He sound like a bit of d!!khead to me, he's going on about being shy while posting a video on the net in which he tells of his teenage masturbation habits. We dont really know what his father is like, but we do know that this guy is doing his best to try and make him sound like a fool.
It sounded to me like the oldman was uncomfortable talking about sex with his son, big deal, just talk to him about stuff.

the lad was in fact extremely shy, i know him for yrs and prob shiest person ever met, and very badly bullied n school,when he did eventually accept that he was indeed gay why he came out he developed into a very outgoing positive and fiercly intelligent peron. everything he speaks is the truth and if people dont like wat he saying then why are ye so interested in listening, the mind boggles

later12

floggg wrote: »

What's the relevance to this thread?

I'm assuming the relevance is that we are berating Jammy Donut (was that his name? he's gone now anyway) for disputing the correctness, morality or worthiness of encouraging homosexual relationships; on the other hand many people would condemn & belittle & mock homosexual incestuous relationships on exactly the same spurious grounds - a 'personal unease' and personal dislike of the idea.

I think it's a good question, quite relevant to those of us who may be quick to dish out our indignation but slow to reflect on the rational consistency of our own beliefs.

joyced

branbee wrote: »

i know that I, and many others would find it very difficult to feel the same way about my child if they turned out to be a murderer.
Obviously Im not comparing the two in any way whatsoever, Im just showing how every parent has their limits to this 'unconditional love'. Unfortunately some parents class being gay as one of those limits. But you also hear of girls being disowned for teenage pregnancies or drug use etc. Its not right but it happens. For most parents it would take a lot to stop loving and accepting your child but I don't think its ever unconditional for any parent tbh.

oh for **** sake gays hurt no one murderers kill and ruin other peoples lives...cope on

Penn

My name is URL wrote: »

Except, incestuous sexual relationships do have a massive effect on people not involved in the relationship. I'd be utterly surprised if the vast majority of incestuous relationships do not end up causing huge problems for the rest of the family.

But that's not exclusive to incestuous relationships.

If a girl went out with someone her family hated, that could cause problems in the family.
If a white girl went out with a black guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If a posh girl went out with a criminal guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If an 18 year old girl went out with a 67 year old guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If a Catholic girl went out with a Muslim man, that could cause problems in the family.
Hell, in some cases if a Dublin girl went out with a Meath man that could cause problems in the family.

All to varying extents and dependent on various factors, but all relationships can potentially have a massive effect on people not involved in the relationship. But what matters is the people in the relationship, not other people's opinions of it.

Roadtrippin

Some of the posts on this thread make me sad and angry at the same time. Homophobic attitudes are still way too common!

Some people to this day don't seem to get that being gay is not a choice!

Scanlas The 2nd

Penn wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

My own opinion of it would be that if it's completely consensual and both are of legal age, it's okay.

The reason I ask is I'm sure there are plenty of people who think being gay is ok as there logically is no reason why it's wrong but then they would think brothers having sex is wrong without a reason.

Ew seems are perfectly acceptable reasons for brothers not to have sex yet we isn't an acceptable excuse for gays.

Dyr

Colmustard wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

Eurghhhhhh, yes I do.

You racist so and so

Roadtrippin

Roadtrippin wrote: »

Some people to this day don't seem to get that being gay is not a choice!

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

1ZRed

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

I can't hit my face with my palm hard enough for this post

Carlos_Ray

I don't have a lot of respect for someone who washes their dirty laundry in public. I feel certain aspects of the video were quite disrespectful to his family.

To a certain extent I can understand how a high profile gay person can help younger gay people by explaining their own experiences of coming out. However, this chap is merely trying to find his feet on Youtube. He's using his story in an attempt to get recognition. I believe that a persons recognition should stem from their talent. Judging by his other videos, his channel is basically ego-centric drivel with little creative or artistic value.

I find his videos quite vacuous. The channel is on par with someone releasing an autobiography before they have achieved anything.

I have no doubt the guy most likely had a tough time growing up but he's not the only one. Today's generation seem to think that by simply existing they deserve attention. I don't agree.

OldNotWIse

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

relevance?

Daith

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

Maybe if you were told as white person you can't marry another white person you might think differently?

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

It's not so much about "pride" as about not being ashamed. There's a difference.

You wonder why there's marches and yet you see the homophobic bilge evident here and elsewhere? There's safety at times in numbers and it allows some people to enjoy themselves without the undercurrent threat they might face normally with people who aren't very understanding.

As to bars: Again a safer environment, not to mention the improved likelihood for many of being able to meet someone they've a chance with.

Ideally though we wouldn't need a lot of this but unfortunately the world isn't ideal and there's some way to go yet.

When two men can feel as safe holding hands as a man and a woman anywhere in Dublin - then we'll have achieved something. Don't tell me we're there yet.

Roadtrippin

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

Did you ever have problems because of being white? Most likely not. That's why you don't need to have pride marches. It's about equality and human rights and showing that, mostly based on the political struggle that the gay community had to endure.
For a long time being gay meant being prosecuted and now being open about it celebrates the fact that the gay community should have the same rights as any straight person.
Being white in Ireland never caused you any issues of prosecution or feeling like you didn't have equal rights now, did it? So it's hardly comparable.

ejmaztec

I'm sure this thread would be a lot more entertaining were all of the <snipped> bits put back in.:(

It's like putting Tippex on Mona Lisa's smile.

Corkfeen

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

Because they have been treated like second class citizens for a good proportion of time. To this day, they don't have complete equality alongside straight people and it's for general acceptance that they are like everyone else and should be accepted as they are(there's people that think conversion therapy is fecking acceptable). Gay Pride Marches and gay bars allow everyone in , they're non discriminatory so it's a rather silly point. Black Pride also exists btw....

Lyaiera

Roadtrippin wrote: »

Some people to this day don't seem to get that being gay is not a choice!

That's debateable seeing as it hasn't been proven one way or another. What difference does it make if it is a choice though?

Dyr

Roadtrippin wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

Did you ever have problems because of being white? Most likely not. That's why you don't need to have pride marches. It's about equality and human rights and showing that, mostly based on the political struggle that the gay community had to endure.
For a long time being gay meant being prosecuted and now being open about it celebrates the fact that the gay community should have the same rights as any straight person.
Being white in Ireland never caused you any issues of prosecution or feeling like you didn't have equal rights now, did it? So it's hardly comparable.

my legal history knowledge is woefully inadaquete, tell me how many people have been prosecute for being gay from the 60s onward

Scanlas The 2nd

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm curious do people think it's wrong for two brothers to have a sexual relationship?

relevance?

People are quick to judge people for thinking homosexuality is wrong whereas many of these people would think two brothers in a sexual relationship is wrong with the only justification being that it makes them feel uneasy, the very same reason they condemn others for thinking homosexuality is wrong. It's hypocritical.

Roadtrippin

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's debateable seeing as it hasn't been proven one way or another. What difference does it make if it is a choice though?

It doesn't make a difference. Either way there is no excuse to be homophobic.

Scanlas The 2nd

Roadtrippin wrote: »

Lyaiera wrote: »

That's debateable seeing as it hasn't been proven one way or another. What difference does it make if it is a choice though?

It doesn't make a difference. Either way there is no excuse to be homophobic.

Is there an excuse to be clostrophobic?

If homophobic is so called correctly then they can't help being homophobic just like homosexuals can't help being homosexual. So judging homophobia is just as bad.

pragmatic1

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Is there an excuse to be clostrophobic?

If homophobic is so called correctly then they can't help being homophobic just like homosexuals can't help being homosexual. So judging homophobia is just as bad.

Ah but homosexuals don't go round beating up homophobes and making their lives a misery.

And no judging homophobia is not just as bad. Same way being a racist and judging racist people isn't the remotely the same thing. If you hate other people because of something they were born with, you're a shyte person in my book.

Benny_Cake

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Is there an excuse to be clostrophobic?

If homophobic is so called correctly then they can't help being homophobic just like homosexuals can't help being homosexual. So judging homophobia is just as bad.

A phobia is an unreasonable fear of something. I would imagine that people who suffer from claustrophobia would accept that they have an unreasonable fear. Homophobes rarely seem to do the same - their dislike of homosexuality is a point of view which they see as perfectly natural and if anyone has to change it should be those icky, uppity gays. I do accept that homophobia may be clumsily named, but your point doesn't stand up.

Roadtrippin

Bambi wrote: »

my legal history knowledge is woefully inadaquete, tell me how many people have been prosecute for being gay from the 60s onward

Maybe read up about it...
In Ireland homosexuality has only been decriminalised since 1993 (which is ridiculously late if you ask me but that's a different debate).
Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation has only been outlawed since 1998 (Employment Equality Act and and Equal Status Act of 2000).

If people weren't prosecuted (and I'm sure there were cases when that did happen), discrimination toward gay people before this was certainly a lot more common and I would bet that there also was a lot more hate crimes before these laws were passed.

SusieBlue

Originally Posted by Fuinseog
perhaps its the anti family lifestyle they pursue. try as they might no babies can be produced through anal sex.heteros have the potion between anal sex and normal sex.

If conceiving babies was the only reason people have sex, then surely infertile couples shouldn't be allowed? After all, no children can result from the relationship?

Or two older people, where the woman is past the menopause, would that not be the same? Your argument is seriously flawed. If children were the only people had sex then there'd be no reason for birth control.

Owen_S

Back to the topic of the original video: I was expecting much worse from his Dad from the thread title and after learning that he was off retiring age and old-fashioned.

Colmustard

Deleted User wrote: »

then why be proud about something your born with ? ? I was born white but i dont go to white bars have White pride marches or let it define who i am.

LOL
Did you ever feel ashamed of been white??

Gay pride is not so much about been proud, its more about not been ashamed.

Colmustard

Originally Posted by Scanlas The 2nd
Is there an excuse to be clostrophobic?

If homophobic is so called correctly then they can't help being homophobic just like homosexuals can't help being homosexual. So judging homophobia is just as bad.

Homophobics are not afraid of homosexuals, homophobes usually bully them and may even beat them up. What they are afraid of is been gay or perhaps thoughts they feel they should not be thinking.

Any phobia is a fear from with-in homo-phobia Ged it.

Fuinseog

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Couldn't give a **** what people think about me TBH.

My opinion is being gay is wrong, I have tried to justify it but any argument I make is not good enough and ye pick holes in it.


I will NEVER accept being gay is okay, My choice.

unfortunately you will be bullied and intimidated into holding your tongue. anyone critical of the gay community is homophobic and a gay basher , which is against the law.

col.in.Cr

His Dad made him a Cheese sandwich,sounds like a good bloke to me.

Hazys

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Havnt watched the video, But I kinda do think being gay is wrong.

No offence to anyone but, there's 2 types of people men and women.

I do honestly think its weird that same sex go together, its like naturally penis goes into vagina that's the way its done. But 2 peniseseses together or 2 vags together just seems wrong.


I know there's more to it than the sexual side but still.

I'm kinda old school believe.

Lol...Jammy Donut are you the old guy from this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guKYjE0Tdtw

I think this video perfectly sums up the people on the 2 sides of the argument.

On the side of homophobia, a crazed old man spouting nonsense.
On the side of gay rights, a clear and concise argument.

pragmatic1

Fuinseog wrote: »

unfortunately you will be bullied and intimidated into holding your tongue. anyone critical of the gay community is homophobic and a gay basher , which is against the law.

Is that what debating and arguing different points of view is called now.

You're entitled to their own opinions but other people are equally entitled to call you out on them if they aren't well reasoned.

Benny_Cake

Fuinseog wrote: »

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Couldn't give a **** what people think about me TBH.

My opinion is being gay is wrong, I have tried to justify it but any argument I make is not good enough and ye pick holes in it.


I will NEVER accept being gay is okay, My choice.

unfortunately you will be bullied and intimidated into holding your tongue. anyone critical of the gay community is homophobic and a gay basher , which is against the law.

Not at all the case. What you need however is a well-reasoned argument, not raving about anal sex being unnatural, which seems to be your main issue.

My name is URL

Penn wrote: »

But that's not exclusive to incestuous relationships.

If a girl went out with someone her family hated, that could cause problems in the family.
If a white girl went out with a black guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If a posh girl went out with a criminal guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If an 18 year old girl went out with a 67 year old guy, that could cause problems in the family.
If a Catholic girl went out with a Muslim man, that could cause problems in the family.
Hell, in some cases if a Dublin girl went out with a Meath man that could cause problems in the family.

All to varying extents and dependent on various factors, but all relationships can potentially have a massive effect on people not involved in the relationship. But what matters is the people in the relationship, not other people's opinions of it.

So can you honestly say that you wouldn't have a problem if two of your siblings were riding each other, or if your adult sister decided to have a sexual relationship with your dad? I'm fairly liberal, but even I would have difficulty accepting that shit. I wouldn't stand in their way, but I certainly wouldn't be saying 'fair play and good luck' to them either. Just because people are free to do any mad thing they want, doesn't mean that I have to see it as being okay.

Carlos_Ray

I wonder will he come out and admit which username he uses on boards. I'm pretty sure he's already posted on the thread.

Gummy Panda

1ZRed wrote: »

But a penis would also fit into the anus quite "naturally"

Thats not true. You have to spit on it first :pac: