Collective Bargaining, Millionaire's v Billionaire's and the possibility of a lockout

MrJoeSoap

Crunch Time!

The current CBA expires a month from tomorrow (15th September) and there is a very real prospect that, for the second time in a decade, their may be disruption to the hockey season. So far, the NHL have submitted their opening proposal on the 13th of July, with the following key points:

*Reduce players' share of revenues from 57% to 46%
*10 years experience before reaching UFA status
*Contracts limited to 5 years
*Removal of salary arbitration
*Entry level contracts to five years

The NHLPA need to make their counter proposal before the negotiations can continue, that is due to be tomorrow. That is when the fun and games will begin. It will be a case of millionaire's vs billionaire's fighting to get every percentage point in their favour, and the first casualty is almost certainly going to be the regular season and the fans.

Some players tweets on the matter thus far:

Rented Mule

I would like to see the old 'Larry Bird' clause embraced by the NHL. If you draft and develop a player (or players), you should be allowed to go over the Salary Cap to keep them.

The problem with every CBA is the fact that the owners end up being their own worst enemies. They completely won the last contract dispute. The players came crawling back with their hat in their hands. In the Summer of 2007, they (the New York Rangers) start throwing out max contracts to second and third line players completely destroying their edge in market values for other players. Other teams followed suit, and here we are again today talking about another lockout looming on the horizon.

MrJoeSoap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y3mU0gSWDY

Fiery mutant

To be fair, I think it's taken the NHLPA far too long to respond with their proposal, more than a month after the owners made theirs.

I hope it doesn't come to a lockout, been waiting for this season for what seems like an eternity.

Football season, baseball, everything else seems to fly by, but it takes forever for hockey season to come around.

TechnoPool

at best its 50/50 right now.


Was out golfing the other day in calgary and Saric and iginla where out playing a hole ahead, didnt look too bothered.


As a bruins fan i tried to hit them with the ball once or twice;)

Rented Mule

I would completely expect to see the players locked out on September 15th. They are too far apart at the moment to expect anything else. Whether or not this affects the start of the season remains to be seen.

Fiery mutant

It kinda looks that way. Judging by comments coming from the owners, it's seems they are nearly expecting a lockout to happen, I guess we can only just hope that it ends rather quickly and we don't end up with a season missed or a large chunk of a season missed.

Izy

It will be the same as NFL last year, a deal will get done. Too much money at stake for both players and owners, the league is as popular as ever and they don't want to give the KHL a chance to pay massive money ( tax free ) to players. The owners have more to loose than players so they will give in!
Read somewhere that rick Nash and joe Thornton will play in Switzerland together if this lockout is happening. The last time all the players ( mostly europeans ) went to play for their home teams in Europe so they'll just do the same again.

COYW

Izy wrote: »

The last time all the players ( mostly europeans ) went to play for their home teams in Europe so they'll just do the same again.

I can see this happening alright, to the detriment of the NHL of course. Hope they sort this out as I think this year is going to be exceptional. This has caused enough bother for us over here with the cancellation of the games in Europe at the start of the season. Was planning on going to them this year.

Rented Mule

Izy wrote: »

It will be the same as NFL last year, a deal will get done. Too much money at stake for both players and owners, the league is as popular as ever and they don't want to give the KHL a chance to pay massive money ( tax free ) to players. The owners have more to loose than players so they will give in!

The KHL is not as attractive as you would like to think. The 'tax free money' is not exactly what it states. You are only allowed to move so much money out of the country at one time ( I believe it is somewhere in the area of $10,000 US). You pay a hefty fine on anything higher than that.

The owners have everything to gain. Players are not being paid while they are locked out. The percentage of sharing that they are looking for is significant. The players will end up 'giving back money' if the owner's plan goes through.

The last lockout showed what the owners were made of. The players got absolutely hammered in the last CBA. The fact that the owners shot themselves in the foot in it's implementation is part of the reason that we are in the situation that we find ourselves in now.

Read somewhere that rick Nash and joe Thornton will play in Switzerland together if this lockout is happening. The last time all the players ( mostly europeans ) went to play for their home teams in Europe so they'll just do the same again.

Nash and Thornton have both come out and said that this is not true.

http://www.truehockey.com/articles/Swiss-Report-Inacurate

I spoke to a few players that went to play in Europe during the last lockout. I didn't hear many positive things out of them when they returned. I would be very surprised to see many of the 'bigger names' playing 'over seas' this time around.

Izy

Rented Mule wrote: »

I spoke to a few players that went to play in Europe during the last lockout. I didn't hear many positive things out of them when they returned. I would be very surprised to see many of the 'bigger names' playing 'over seas' this time around.

I'm sure you have far more information on the CBA than me...

Every Slovakian player went on to play for their home town, some after a few weeks moved to better leagues but most of them stayed.
And there isn't many unknown Slovakian players in the league.

Rented Mule

Izy wrote: »

Every Slovakian player went on to play for their home town, some after a few weeks moved to better leagues but most of them stayed.
And there isn't many unknown Slovakian players in the league.

I'm sorry. I should have been more specific. I was talking about the North American players that I spoke with.

I would not be surprised to see many of the European players returning to their home leagues.

MrJoeSoap

Big meetings today, with very little progress made (if any). The probability of a lockout increases.

Fiery mutant

The fact that a meeting slated for yesterday was cancelled at the last minute, fills me with dread.

cyberwolf77

This is gonna be awful. I want my hockey

Rented Mule

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404094

NEW YORK -- There is no new deal on the horizon in the NHL's collective bargaining talks.

One day after receiving a proposal from the league that commissioner Gary Bettman labelled "meaningful" and "significant," the NHL Players' Association made it clear Wednesday that it didn't share that view.

16 days and counting ......

MrJoeSoap

Rented Mule wrote: »

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404094

NEW YORK -- There is no new deal on the horizon in the NHL's collective bargaining talks.

One day after receiving a proposal from the league that commissioner Gary Bettman labelled "meaningful" and "significant," the NHL Players' Association made it clear Wednesday that it didn't share that view.

16 days and counting ......

Any hope of a season is fast slipping away. What a shame. I've read almost every TSN report on this over the past month or so, and the most popular comments under them, and the amount of disdain for the negotiation process is incredible. Rightly so, too. What a shambles of a process.

Izy wrote: »

It will be the same as NFL last year, a deal will get done. Too much money at stake for both players and owners, the league is as popular as ever and they don't want to give the KHL a chance to pay massive money ( tax free ) to players. The owners have more to loose than players so they will give in!

I certainly wouldn't be putting money on that at the moment.

GoldFour4

Can see the season being delayed a few weeks like the NBA was. At the end of the day money makes the world go round. If there's no season then the players don't get paid and the owners don't make a profit. Neither side wants that. Both will sacrifice a few things and a deal will get done. The league has made a great recovery from the mess it was in with the last missed season.

Rented Mule

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404230

NEW YORK -- The NHL Players' Association and the National Hockey League have resumed their collective bargaining meetings.

Donald Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, had hoped to table a counter-proposal Thursday but instead called off the session to devote more time to drafting it.

I enjoyed Dan Cleary's comment on the owner's proposal.

Fehr was not made available to the media Thursday, but Detroit Red Wings player Danny Cleary told Mlive.com "It (the NHL proposal) was a pig with lipstick on, instead of a pig."

MrJoeSoap

Rented Mule wrote: »

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404230

NEW YORK -- The NHL Players' Association and the National Hockey League have resumed their collective bargaining meetings.

Donald Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, had hoped to table a counter-proposal Thursday but instead called off the session to devote more time to drafting it.

I enjoyed Dan Cleary's comment on the owner's proposal.

Fehr was not made available to the media Thursday, but Detroit Red Wings player Danny Cleary told Mlive.com "It (the NHL proposal) was a pig with lipstick on, instead of a pig."

Whilst it might be a good soundbite, the players aren't looking good in this. They should not be speaking to the media with personal opinions whilst negotiations are ongoing, and Fehr should be briefing them on this regularly. It's creating an atmosphere and the talks are more than likely going to become less and less civil as a result, whenever these talks may be.

Almost all the sentiment amongst the fans at this moment is against the players and not the owners, they've shot themselves in the foot here big time over the past few weeks. It has now turned into a fiasco where both sides of the table are derided in equal measure. The real losers here are the fans, and the people who work in the lower-paid jobs that the sport creates. Two lockouts in the space of eight years will not be good for Ice Hockey.

Fiery mutant

I agree, the players are starting to come out of this looking very bad. After the last CBA, everyone seemed to have a lot of sympathy for the players, and rightly so, but now they are starting to look like petulant school kids.

I know for us we just want to be able to watch the hockey and enjoy the sport for what it is, it's the players that have to go out and play. But at some stage they have to start to look at themselves and see are they being detrimental to their own cause.

TechnoPool

If the lockout goes ahead it will be the end of teams like phoenix, columbus ect who are already struggling.

jack presley

I'm going to be in washington the night of their season opener when they're playing the Devils. Am i wasting my time buying a ticket?

MrJoeSoap

jack presley wrote: »

I'm going to be in washington the night of their season opener when they're playing the Devils. Am i wasting my time buying a ticket?

Almost certainly, I'd be amazed if the season starts on time, if at all.

Fiery mutant

It certainly looks as if we are about to head into the abyss.

With what looks like a considerable gap between the two parties, I wonder will we be locked out for the entire year, or will it be a delayed season, like the NBA.

MrJoeSoap

Enjoyed (if that is the correct word) reading this rather scathing article on Bettman and co. this evening:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/touch/sports/story.html?id=7181295

Izy

A friend of mine got 7/1 odds on the league starting on time (11th October ) in one of the bookies...

MrJoeSoap

Izy wrote: »

A friend of mine got 7/1 odds on the league starting on time (11th October ) in one of the bookies...

Don't think I'd take odds of 20/1 on it at this stage. The fact that they didn't have European openers this year was indication enough that they weren't expecting a full season.

MrJoeSoap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQs3O_IDas

A great video to remind everyone what we'll be missing. 161k views in 3 days on Youtube, and retweets by a few dozen players at this stage I'd say.

Rented Mule

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404230

NHL CBA MEETINGS RECESSED; NO FUTURE TALKS PLANNED FOR NOW

NEW YORK, N.Y. - Labour peace appears to remain elusive for the NHL.

Collective bargaining negotiations between the league and NHL Players' Association were placed on hold Friday, leaving the sport on course for its fourth work stoppage in the past two decades. With a Sept. 15 deadline looming for a lockout, the sides have a sizable gap to make up and no scheduled meetings.

"We'll be prepared to resume when they are," said Donald Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director. "Hopefully, that won't be too long."

Gary Bettman made it clear that he believes it is up to the union to make the next move. The NHL commissioner was expecting Fehr to table a counter-proposal on Friday, but instead was presented with a series of alternative options that could be applied to the fourth year of the NHLPA's original offer.

The games continue. 12 days and counting ......

cena

Very well put together video

Rented Mule

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404585

NEW YORK -- NHL labour talks remain in recess five days after negotiations broke down, and 10 days before the league has threatened to lock out its players.

There has been no word from either the NHL or the NHL Players' Association as to when negotiations will resume. The current deal is set to expire Sept. 15.

Talks broke off Friday after the two sides traded counteroffers.

Union chief Don Fehr said the NHLPA's proposal did not bear fruit. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman accused the union of stonewalling.

10 days and counting.......

MrJoeSoap

Rented Mule wrote: »

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404585

NEW YORK -- NHL labour talks remain in recess five days after negotiations broke down, and 10 days before the league has threatened to lock out its players.

There has been no word from either the NHL or the NHL Players' Association as to when negotiations will resume. The current deal is set to expire Sept. 15.

Talks broke off Friday after the two sides traded counteroffers.

Union chief Don Fehr said the NHLPA's proposal did not bear fruit. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman accused the union of stonewalling.

10 days and counting.......

I've given up counting. Completely and unapologetically negative towards the whole situation now.

cyberwolf77

This whole thing just makes me want to throw the hell up

MrJoeSoap

cyberwolf77 wrote: »

This whole thing just makes me want to throw the hell up

Anyone else starting to research European hockey?

cyberwolf77

I getting to the point quite rapidly

Crapbag

Im actually really disappointed. I cant see this getting resolved at this stage with no talks scheduled. I was going to get UPC TV added to my broadband specifically to watch the season. Guess ill be saving €20 a month

Rented Mule

This is going to be my 3rd NHL lockout. I'm pretty much prepared for the inevitable. This is the same posturing that we saw in the previous lockouts. There haven't been any surprises so far. The only thing that would surprise me would be if they were working around the clock to avoid a lockout.

COYW

Rented Mule wrote: »

The only thing that would surprise me would be if they were working around the clock to avoid a lockout.

The lack of action is amazing. The issues are not going to magically resolve themselves. It looks like we won't be seeing hockey for some time. Thank god, I am not in NY until next April.

Rented Mule

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=404679

DREGER: COMMON GROUND NEEDED TO ADVANCE CBA NEGOTIATIONS

There is risk of the entire 2012-2013 NHL season being wiped out.

Now that qualifies as fear mongering, but considering how entrenched both the league and the players' association are with less than 10 days until the expiration of the existing collective bargaining agreement, sources on both sides are accepting the loss of another season as a possibility.

Negotiations remain in a stalemate - with no plan to resume formal talks.

8 days and counting........

Izy

I'm getting NHL 13 next week will let you know who wins the Stanley cup next year

I'd say that be the only hockey I'll see on tv this year:cool:

And that when all the penguins seem in good health and ready to win another cup...

Aahhh well, at least football is on, go steelers

cena

I really hope this doesn't go ahead. Hoping to head to ny in novmeber

Fiery mutant

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Anyone else starting to research European hockey?

Yep, KHL has started and some of the other Euro leagues, so at least there will be something to keep us going.

jack presley

I ended up buying that ticket for the Capitals home opener in October. I got it off Stubhub so at least if the season is delayed I get a full refund so I won't be out of pocket.

GoldFour4

With the ****e coverage last year I kinda fell out of love with the NHL. Kinda hoping a lockout reignites my love for it

Fiery mutant

malachyscott wrote: »

With the ****e coverage last year I kinda fell out of love with the NHL. Kinda hoping a lockout reignites my love for it

Get NHL Gamecentre, practically take yr pick of any game during the season. I got it first last year, and I found it well worth the money.

Obviously that is, if the season goes ahead.

COYW

malachyscott wrote: »

With the ****e coverage last year I kinda fell out of love with the NHL. Kinda hoping a lockout reignites my love for it

Are you talking about the Setanta coverage?

jack presley

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Get NHL Gamecentre, practically take yr pick of any game during the season. I got it first last year, and I found it well worth the money.

Obviously that is, if the season goes ahead.

How much is it by the way?

MrJoeSoap

jack presley wrote: »

How much is it by the way?

It was $20 a month or $160 for the season last year.

Fiery mutant

jack presley wrote: »

How much is it by the way?

Think I paid about €120 euro for it, got it about 4 weeks into the season, season before that I had it on ESPN America.

Rented Mule

Back to the topic at hand.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405196

BETTMAN: OWNERS UNANIMOUSLY AGREE TO LOCKOUT WITHOUT NEW CBA

NEW YORK -- Gary Bettman has reiterated that the NHL season won't start until there is a new collective bargaining agreement in place.

The commissioner was speaking after a two-hour meeting of the league's board of governors Thursday.

There was some hope that the two sides could continue to talk. Bettman offered to meet "any time, at any place."

"If you're dedicated to the negotiating process, you can move this along quickly," Bettman said. "If, for whatever reason, you're not interested in making a deal, you drag it out."

But Bettman insisted there would be no hockey without a deal.