DIY Sega Neptune

The Last Bandit

Guy fits 32X into a Model 2 Megadrive case.

http://longhornengineer.com/diy/neptunehowto/

Now if I could get a reproduction Neptune case it might be worth the hassle...

o1s1n

Great step by step, nothing about a fan or cooling! Last I heard, doing that mod can lead to chips overheating and games crashing.

The Last Bandit

o1s1n wrote: »

Great step by step, nothing about a fan or cooling! Last I heard, doing that mod can lead to chips overheating and games crashing.

The tinfoil blanket certainly doesn't help with any heat issues !!

Myrddin

Yeah I was really interested in doing this a while back, then I heard about the overheating & reliability issues & decided not to pursue it. Damn you Neptune & your elusiveness

o1s1n

I wonder how far along that Neptune prototype was? Was it just a shell or did they ever have the internal parts assembled to fit inside?

Oh to have the ability to browse the Sega vaults!

Myrddin

The Last Bandit wrote: »

The tinfoil blanket certainly doesn't help with any heat issues !!

As far as I remember its there for shielding, without it games tend to crash & there's more interference

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

I wonder how far along that Neptune prototype was? Was it just a shell or did they ever have the internal parts assembled to fit inside?

Oh to have the ability to browse the Sega vaults!

I'd say it was essentially a Nomad & a 32X married together. But to be able to browse the vaults of Sega & Nintendo...drool

o1s1n

Ooooh, feck the Neptune, what I want to see is a Nomad 32X!

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Ooooh, feck the Neptune, what I want to see is a Nomad 32X!

Not a hope, not all from within the Nomad shell anyway.

The Last Bandit

o1s1n wrote: »

Ooooh, feck the Neptune, what I want to see is a Nomad 32X!

Ask the guys at Blaze nicely, they might throw something together for €200.

I think at guy in the UK was making replica Neptune shells based on pics of the proto. Now, if only I'd access to a 3d printer

o1s1n

Completely hypothetically and with no ability to put any of this into action -

You could gut the Nomad and replace the internals with those from one of those tiny little plug and play Megadrives.

That tiny Megadrive can be modded to accept a cart slot.

This would leave most of the Nomad internals free for a stripped down 32X.

The main issue there would be whether or not those plug and play Megadrives have the ability for 32X add on - the Sega Genesis 3 doesn't, so probably not.

Oooh! You could gut and strip down a CDX as that supports a 32X (gotta love the shamless destroying of important pieces of videogame history by the way! ).

Then again, if you're doing that, you might as well just use the Nomad as the boards are probably the same (and I'm pretty sure that supports the 32X)

Okay this is impossible. Empty Nomad shell and Raspberry PI it is

Myrddin

Yeah those clones are just 'on chip' solutions, lacking the expandability of the actual hardware.

I'd really love one of the replica Neptune shells however :cool:

o1s1n

It's a really lovely design alright. I think it's my favourite Sega have ever put out after the Megadrive Mark 1.

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

It's a really lovely design alright. I think it's my favourite Sega have ever put out after the Megadrive Mark 1.

Agreed, in reality, the 32X should have never seen the light of day & the Neptune should have been used to fill the gap to the Saturn. Its like we got the proto, & they kept the retail unit!

The Last Bandit

Looks like a decent enough attempt.

http://www.porlzilla.com/2012/04/quick-neptune-case-update.html

Steve X2

I wonder could I get hold of a 3D model and print it on my 3D printer?
It would require some accurate fine sanding to get a nice professional finish to the case as the current batch of consumer 3D printers just cant replicate what injection moulding can do.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

I wonder could I get hold of a 3D model and print it on my 3D printer?
It would require some accurate fine sanding to get a nice professional finish to the case as the current batch of consumer 3D printers just cant replicate what injection moulding can do.

I know the quality wouldn't match injection moulding, but still, it'd be damn awesome to have a shell for a console that was never released - fine sanded or not! :cool:

a5y

o1s1n wrote: »

It's a really lovely design alright. I think it's my favourite Sega have ever put out after the Megadrive Mark 1.

Honestly? I could never see the appeal of the Neptune from a hardware or aesthetic point of view.

It's a MD2 with cosmetic surgery and a partial lobotomy - no Master System backwards compatibility or SegaCD/MegaCD compatibility.

Its like reducing a Gundam action figure to Malibu Stacy, and giving it a hat. I almost find it offensive!

Myrddin

a5y wrote: »

Honestly? I could never see the appeal of the Neptune from a hardware or aesthetic point of view.

It's a MD2 with cosmetic surgery and a partial lobotomy - no Master System backwards compatibility or SegaCD/MegaCD compatibility.

Its like reducing a Gundam action figure to Malibu Stacy, and giving it a hat. I almost find it offensive!

Your completely missing the point, it's a Sega console that was never released. It's automatically cool without even having to try

a5y

EnterNow wrote: »

Your completely missing the point, it's a Sega console that was never released. It's automatically cool without even having to try

Yeah. But my point is, Sega weren't even trying. :P

OK, I may have been a little harsh on the Neptune. But it just wasn't a step forward for either hardware that helped sell better games or an improvement in console case aesthetics.

Frankly its getting too much love at the expense of VR.



Imagine that combined in an arcade with an R360.

Myrddin

a5y wrote: »

Yeah. But my point is, Sega weren't even trying. :P

OK, I may have been a little harsh on the Neptune. But it just wasn't a step forward for either hardware that helped sell better games or an improvement in console case aesthetics.

I don't think so, had the 32X not have seen the light of day then the Neptune would have been the natural bridge between the Megadrive & Saturn. It really should have been the way to go rather than using an add on component, another psu, link cables at the rear etc...your certainly right in that Sega wern't thinking!

But being 32 bit, & the Saturn being 32 bit...Sega were stuck between a rock and a hard place really.

Steve X2

So, if anyone comes across a 3d model of this thing let me know and I'll see what i can whip up.
I've had a bit of a look on google and I cant find a 3D model of it.

The Last Bandit

A single model would be enough to produce a decent fibreglass mould at least.

a5y

Steve SI wrote: »

So, if anyone comes across a 3d model of this thing let me know and I'll see what i can whip up.
I've had a bit of a look on google and I cant find a 3D model of it.

Couple of questions:

(for SteveSI)

What file format do you need the data in?
What's the maximum size your printer can handle for components (width by depth by build high (supported by scaffolding)?

Open question:

Can anyone provide the 32X cart's slot size?

I might have a go, I've enough reference images to give it a shot.

a5y

Right.



This is the thing I'm looking for measurements on.

Actually, this is PAL Sega MegaDrive's/Genesis' one. I'm looking for the 32x's carts measurements. Right now I only need:

• the total length from one end to the other
• the total from front to back

I don't need any guesswork on the curve's radius, and frankly it doesn't have to be perfect, I can correct it later without it being a ton of work.

If anyone could take a ruler to one of their carts this would be a big help with working out the rest of how big the Neptune should be (this slot and the controller ports are the only scale references I've to work with, and the controller ports are less that ideal).

Oh and in millimetres would be nice too!

The Last Bandit

32X cart is 72 high, 12 depth and 114mm wide.

The Neptune supposedly used the same base at the Mega drive 2 so should provide some reference measurements as well.

Steve X2

a5y wrote: »

Couple of questions:

(for SteveSI)

What file format do you need the data in?
What's the maximum size your printer can handle for components (width by depth by build high (supported by scaffolding)?

• Build envelope: 225 x145 x150 millimetres/8.9 x 5.7 x 5.9 inches
• Build Volume: 5 litres

Layer thickness: .2 to .3mm

The file format ideally would be fully formed valid .stl but I can work with pretty much any format.

This vid might give you an idea of what can be printed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6VSu-oOws

a5y

The Last Bandit wrote: »

32X cart is 72 high, 12 depth and 114mm wide.

The Neptune supposedly used the same base at the Mega drive 2 so should provide some reference measurements as well.

Great! Thanks for the dimensions!
Though I don't own a MegaDrive 2... :rolleyes:

Well, I was never expecting this to go smoothly. If I can dig up the width and height all the better.

Steve SI wrote: »

• Build envelope: 225 x145 x150 millimetres/8.9 x 5.7 x 5.9 inches
• Build Volume: 5 litres

Layer thickness: .2 to .3mm

The file format ideally would be fully formed valid .stl but I can work with pretty much any format.

This vid might give you an idea of what can be printed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6VSu-oOws

Well neither the build volume nor the layer thickness should be problems since the casing is hollow and may only need fine tolerance at the joints.

I dunno with the width by depth of a MegaDrive 2 is less than 225 x145 mm. If it isn't, it'll mean splitting the case into joining parts for printing.

I don't expect the valid .STL to be a problem, I've done that before for a CNC operated mill (it only accepted floppy disks. No lie )

The stuff you've printed before on this, did the print vary much from the file's dimensions? Did the printer scale it up automatically to allow for sanding down to spec'ed size?

Myrddin

I'd seriously consider modding an MD2 & 32X into a Neptune case like that. The additional room would allow for better cooling.

I wonder if the Nomad is technically capable of running a 32X...if so, perhaps one with a broken screen might be a perfect solution

Jack burton

I love the direction this thread has taken.

One of those Neptune cases could be very very sweet to have.

Plus would a sand blast and a good paint job would have these looking sold as a rock? I know somewho who would do that for me for a handy ammount

Myrddin

Jack burton wrote: »

I love the direction this thread has taken.

One of those Neptune cases could be very very sweet to have.

Plus would a sand blast and a good paint job would have these looking sold as a rock? I know somewho who would do that for me for a handy ammount

I too am cautiously optimistic that this thread might lead to something really really cool

Steve X2

If we can get a decent 3D model I can see about printing one up for use in creating a mould or something like that.
I might even get it printed professionally by Shapeways so we have as good a base object to work from.
I'd make a 3D model myself but I just don't have the time to invest in something like that right now.

Myrddin

Steve SI wrote: »

If we can get a decent 3D model I can see about printing one up for use in creating a mould or something like that.
I might even get it printed professionally by Shapeways so we have as good a base object to work from.
I'd make a 3D model myself but I just don't have the time to invest in something like that right now.

I wonder if anyone on boards, perhaps the graphic design forum, might be interested in making a 3d model from the known specs. It could be factored into the final costings somehow maybe...

Are there known reference specs even?

Steve X2

EnterNow wrote: »

I wonder if anyone on boards, perhaps the graphic design forum, might be interested in making a 3d model from the known specs. It could be factored into the final costings somehow maybe...

Are there known reference specs even?

Good idea. No clue about the specs but the model is going to have to be as perfect as possible as its not cheap to print out on my printer and definitely not cheap to print out using shapeways so mistakes are not an option.

Shapeways or similar is probably the best bet for an accurate version of the model. Wont be cheap but if we spread the cost between a few of us it would ok. I'll see about grabbing a sega saturn or mega drive 2 3d model and get a quote for a 3D printed version of them as they would be around the same as the Neptune (roughly).

a5y

A few minutes with the free transform tool's gotten me this far. That's a 10mm grid, to scale with the size of the 32x cart's slot. Note that the dimensions I have for the slot don't perfectly match the slot's proportions. I think that must be due to the amount of space the opened hatch doors occupy on either side of the inserted cartridge.



The front "upper lip" of the console is displayed inaccurately here due to the angle the photo was originally taken before I distorted it into something resembling perpendicular edges (and exaggerated as much detail in the channels as I could).

If I get time tomorrow I may try and do something similar for an isometric photo of the Neptune. Right now I'm tired of looking at this bloody yoke.

EDIT:
Disregard that. The "wings" on the sides of the case mean I'd be better off experimenting a bunch instead.

Steve X2

a5y wrote: »

Any chance you can send me on that basic 3d model in stl file format (if its sized up to about Mega Drive 2 dimensions and hollow, DAE, OBJ, X3D, X3DB, X3DV, WR are also workable)?
I can use it to get a rough quote from a couple of companies that do proper 3D printing.

I grabbed a 3D stl model of the Xbox 360 earlier as I couldn't find anything retro and used that to get a automatic quote from shapeways. It wasn't hollow so the price was mental

a5y

Steve SI wrote: »

Any chance you can send me on that basic 3d model in stl file format (if its sized up to about Mega Drive 2 dimensions and hollow, DAE, OBJ, X3D, X3DB, X3DV, WR are also workable)?
I can use it to get a rough quote from a couple of companies that do proper 3D printing.

I grabbed a 3D stl model of the Xbox 360 earlier as I couldn't find anything retro and used that to get a automatic quote from shapeways. It wasn't hollow so the price was mental

Ah. I tried finding the measurements for the MD MD2 online, but couldn't get 'em, so I eyeballed this instead. The slot is about the right size but everything else is "Ah yeah, that looks roughly right... give or take an inch." (ie, this could be way off, not just a little off, WAY off)

I'll do a bit more work on it, shell it (how does 1.5mm thickness sound? Thicker = stronger & heavier = more expensive & slower to print) and split it into 2 parts and put a few bosses on (at the minute its not hollow) and send it on when I get the chance.

It could be tomorrow afternoon before I've something for you. Cheers for the file formats list, I'll see what else I can export to.

If anyone can provide the length, depth and height of a MD2 it'd help too. I swear its like the internet is conspiring to stop me finding game hardware measurements... grumble grumble bitch moan.

a5y

UPDATE TIME

[pics will go here, promise]









Attached:

1 zipped file containing:

2 x STL files
1 x README.txt

The readme includes details on

• where I simplified stuff
• where I estimated stuff
• reports on both of the parts including most importantly the mass of the parts (ie how much plastic will this take to make).

When I was writing it I realised something odd about the height of the Neptune, I'll talk about that when I've the pics up (requests of any particular angles or details are welcome).

Don't expect it to look like the Neptune just yet though. I'm having a lot of trouble getting my head around the curves of this bloody thing. The design I've attached is simplified, but the actual overall dimensions should be OK.

a5y

Last one for now, need sleep.

Lemme know what you think, good, bad or indifferent.

Steve X2

Looking good dude. The foundations are certainly there for the neptune.
I'll check out those files now and see about prices and stuff like that.

Good work

Steve X2

€313.76 inc shipping from Shapeways printed on Black strong and flexible plastic.
That's a US company so not sure what the duty would be on something like that.

http://www.shapeways.com/materials/material-options

a5y

€314?

Hmm.

I had considered a few other options to drop the price since I kinda expected this.

For a start, the base is flat, it could potentially be a laser cut component - far cheaper to get made. That's a lot of material that no longer needs to be 3d printed removed gone, though joining the base to the rest of the lower case would need some careful detailing to keep the console rigid.

Secondly, if the two parts of the casing were split into multiple joining smaller parts, it would reduce the travelling time of the printheads (further reducing costs), and possibly allow for the design to be shipped in a smaller category of packaging too.

Thirdly, as things are now, the cost estimates are assuming 1.5 mm shell thickness to be the perfect "sweet spot" between minimal use of material, case opacity, lightness for transport, strength, and rigidity. But 1.5 mm thickness is a number I just picked, its not based on any really engineering rule of thumb or experience I have with 3d case making, or experience with the printed material.
If a few small scale test components (think no bigger than hollow 1" cubes, and even then only printing 3 sides instead of 6 on each one) were printed in various thicknesses for inspection and testing it may prove the case can be printed thinner and equally satisfactorily.

It'd also give an indication of what the real finished surface quality of the final case would be like, and a clue how difficult/time consuming it'd be to sand it down to a finish resembling that of other Sega console.

The more I think about it though, the more I think the design needs a clear end goal. If there's going to be a commercial return on these then it needs to be worked out how much the buyer is willing to pay and what exactly they want - right down to brass tacks, level of modding skill required.

As it is, I think it might be more commercially viable to try and make and sell scale models of console to match the Gachapon (typo?) vending machine toys. It'd suit the 3D printer's process better (relatively expensive production process offering high precision on small mailable objects sold at reasonably high price).

Could be a good, low risk, lowerer investment way to establish a reputation for delivering on good details before trying something more ambitious like a full size console case too.

I'll give this more thought, see if I can think of anything else that could drop the casings' price.

Steve X2

The travel distance on the print heads doesn't really come into it as the printing method for this would be SLS (Selective Laser Sintering). Breaking the print into more smaller parts also wont change the price and the postage is only about 10 euro to Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC0uVO_uT0s

I'm not sure anyone here would be interested in the small scale models (except the novelty value) as I think we all want a full scale model for ourselves so we can actually have a Neptune.
As for any commercially side of things, well that's probably a different conversation to have (legalities, who owns what etc etc)

And then we need to decide if we are buying this model to have a mould made for injection moulding. In that case different choices will need to be made on the material used for printing (we can print it in stainless steel if thats whats used to make professional moulds at a cost of €1,397.57 inc shipping).

Or we could just jam a 32x and megadrive into MD2 case and be done with it

a5y

Steve SI wrote: »

The travel distance on the print heads doesn't really come into it as the printing method for this would be SLS (Selective Laser Sintering). Breaking the print into more smaller parts also wont change the price and the postage is only about 10 euro to Ireland.

I'm not sure anyone here would be interested in the small scale models (except the novelty value) as I think we all want a full scale model for ourselves so we can actually have a Neptune.
As for any commercially side of things, well that's probably a different conversation to have (legalities, who owns what etc etc)

Yeah, commercialisation itself would be a whole other project. Really I'm more interested in this as an interesting experiment. I'm not interested in the stages it'd take to get this ready for sale, but more power to you if you decide to give it a shot. As for the models, I agree. They're not much of a substitute.

And then we need to decide if we are buying this model to have a mould made for injection moulding. In that case different choices will need to be made on the material used for printing (we can print it in stainless steel if thats whats used to make professional moulds at a cost of €1,397.57 inc shipping).

I've never done any completed designs that for injection moulding tooling that actually reached production before. That said, everyone who ever brought it up or discussed it always described it as this massive commitment - the tooling is really expensive (if memory serves the high carbon steel alloy is close to the hardest steel alloy money can buy, and so milling it with fractions of a mm accuracy is inevitably expensive), along with any small revisions to the tooling (correction of mistakes).

I've heard of some people using 3d printed stainless steel for mould making, but I've never seen the end results or read any engineering analyses for how consistent the tolerances are - if the cases start coming out wonky after the first 50 it might prove a false economy to use the approach.

Or we could just jam a 32x and megadrive into MD2 case and be done with it

Simplicity is a beautiful thing, and I'd love to see someone here attempt that project and post their progress, I'm sure they'd find a few people to collaborate with.