Under 21 hurling

dastardly00

We're getting a bit pre-occupied with distances here lads! :pac:
(somebody from Skibbereen in Cork travelling to Ennis for a Munster U-21 hurling match is quite a long trek too).

I like the idea that antoobrien mentioned of having an open-draw with 16 teams. There wouldn't be too much of a fixture congestion, and there are venues around the country that would suit both teams if they have to travel far (eg. Portlaoise, Tullamore).
People are always suggesting about getting rid of the provincial championships in senior hurling, so it could be trialled this way in the U-21 championship.

aidan24326

aidan24326 wrote: »

Galway have never had a county hurler from Clifden and never will so that's not really an issue. The distance for a midweek game would be an issue alright, but they could solve that problem rather easily by playing on a saturday instead. Not really a problem.

You still have to allow for it though. Landscapes can change over time. My own parish was a football mad parish until we produced one hurler and then more followed. In fairness you know Galway alot better then i do but never underestimate the willingness of people to change their outlook.

premierstone

cgpg5 wrote: »

Agree they have to be put into Leinster ridiculous it hasn't happened yet. I can't see anyone that would be opposed to it and would do far more benefit than bad.

Its a joke but its not going to change anytime soon, Galway clubs voted last year not to join Leinster for Minor and U-21 and teh likes of Dublin, Laois, Wexford, Offaly dont want them there as it greatly decreases their chances of sucess at these grades.

antoobrien

premierstone wrote: »

Its a joke but its not going to change anytime soon, Galway clubs voted last year not to join Leinster for Minor and U-21 and teh likes of Dublin, Laois, Wexford, Offaly dont want them there as it greatly decreases their chances of sucess at these grades.

For minor, it could be argued that Galway don't need to join Leinster. Since the 1/4 finals were introduced they haven't lost at that stage, and they've won about half of their semi finals.

antoobrien

antoobrien wrote: »

For minor, it could be argued that Galway don't need to join Leinster. Since the 1/4 finals were introduced they haven't lost at that stage, and they've won about half of their semi finals.

For the long time goal of winning senior all ireland's they would be far far better off joining leinster. With due respect to Galway in a way they are victims of their own success. They play a 2-3 games (varying whether its minor or u21) and win at underage and then you have players going onto senior level with an inflated opinion and a false barometer of themselves as a team and as individuals after a very small amount of games.

For a long long time i used feel losing at underage is a disaster for Tipperary and that we needed to be coming away with nothing less then the ultimate silverware at that level, but now ive come to realise that losing games can be every bit part and parcel of player development then winning them.
Games and experience is what stands to young lads in the long run more than winning although winning does help i think youngsters appreciate it more if its a harder fought thing.
Our minor footballers losing to Mayo is as important a lesson going forward as winning it was last September

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

For minor, it could be argued that Galway don't need to join Leinster. Since the 1/4 finals were introduced they haven't lost at that stage, and they've won about half of their semi finals.

I didnt realise the aim of the GAA and Croke Park was to accomodate Galway, it is completely wrong that they are part of different championship's at different age groups, it should be quite simply all or nothing.

antoobrien

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt realise the aim of the GAA and Croke Park was to accomodate Galway, it is completely wrong that they are part of different championship's at different age groups, it should be quite simply all or nothing.

It's not, but then it's not the job to accomodate the munster council either - who would be the main objectors to an open draw.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

It's not, but then it's not the job to accomodate the munster council either - who would be the main objectors to an open draw.

The Munster championship has been part of the GAA calender since 1884, so how are they accomodating them by merely retaining the status quo, besides that is a completely different arguement, the idea of a county playing senior in one province and underage in another because it suits their chances of success at all particular grades, is at the end of the day wrong.

antoobrien

premierstone wrote: »

The Munster championship has been part of the GAA calender since 1884, so how are they accomodating them by merely retaining the status quo, besides that is a completely different arguement, the idea of a county playing senior in one province and underage in another because it suits their chances of success at all particular grades, is at the end of the day wrong.

Nah it's because they can't organise things as it is and the changes to the calendar would totally screw them up (they're lazy and dumb).

All Munster are doing is using tradition to block progress.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

Nah it's because they can't organise things as it is and the changes to the calendar would totally screw them up (they're lazy and dumb).

All Munster are doing is using tradition to block progress.

lol you have neatly shifted the dicussion away completely from the issue at stake, well played.

antoobrien

premierstone wrote: »

lol you have neatly shifted the dicussion away completely from the issue at stake, well played.

No, just explained why Galway don't see the value in moving the two grades on question into another province.

How's about we go back to the previous page and discuss my suggestion that we take a 16 team U21 championship (with the 14 teams mentioned in the previous post) and run it on an open draw basis.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

No, just explained why Galway don't see the value in moving the two grades on question into another province.

Glad you admit it is by choice, some Galway people have been trying to convince others that it was Leinster blocking the move rather than them, so basically Galway want to have their cake and eat it

antoobrien

premierstone wrote: »

Glad you admit it is by choice, some Galway people have been trying to convince others that it was Leinster blocking the move rather than them, so basically Galway want to have their cake and eat it

I can only talk for the Galway clubs, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was true that the other Leinster counties do not want Galway involved in the underage as it will seriously dent their chances of doing anything.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

I can only talk for the Galway clubs, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was true that the other Leinster counties do not want Galway involved in the underage as it will seriously dent their chances of doing anything.

Yeah I think that's the case alright, neither side wants it, I personally think its very short sighted by Galway, time will tell I guess.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

Yeah I think that's the case alright, neither side wants it, I personally think its very short sighted by Galway, time will tell I guess.

A lot of it has to do with money.
I remember they said that they would be renegotiating the senior status when the trail was up(this year I believe)

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2011/1130/287464-galway/

McDonagh told the Irish Independent: "We should start to develop a strong negotiation proposition to secure better terms and conditions including home games and increased grant allocations from the Leinster Council when renegotiating possible continuing participation in Leinster after 2013."

It also said that there was "no appetite" for the county to join the Leinster Championship below senior level and called for the development of a new "Champions League" structure at under-21.

So basically putting more teams into Leinster would mean more money needed to fund the squads with not an equal amount coming in.

The problem here isn't that Galway won't go into Leinster, it's that there's no Connacht Championship. If there was then more funding would be forthcoming instead of Galway teams playing in Leinster filling their coffers.

Its not our fault that the other Connacht counties have abandoned the game, so with such a lob sided strength balance the only real long term option is to revamp the whole championship structure from Minor to Senior.

Leaving football aside, the hurlings a bit of a joke in that any half decent team is nearly guaranteed a 1/4 final. And after beating Kilkenny already we have to play them again in the final with no losses behind us.
I think a 16 team group structure would be far better than the current situation where whoever wins one hard game in Leinster is into a semi final also picking up the weaker team.

cgpg5

Is there a case though for playing the hurling in Feb/March like the football?

Twiceasnice97

a good bit of this looks awful silly now considering how easily clare beat kilkenny in the final in 2012.

adrian522

You dragged up a 2 year old thread for that?

Also they won by what 5 or 6 points?