Close to 99% passing honour maths.

Jackies green army

The figures coming out from the SEC show that 99% of those who sat HL maths passed, to me this seems absolutely scandalous and a complete undermining of the established relatively successful system in place. In previous years failure rates were around 10%, but because the DE&S have decided to implement Project maths they have decided to abandon the correct marking system and have decided to pull the carpet over our eyes and scratch themselves on the back by giving a false impression of the level of maths at LC level.
The 25 extra marks is a hugely contenious issue, why is maths being prioritised over other important subjects such as irish and french where the percentage of those doing honours to pass is relatively low. The effect of these project maths extra points could be catastrophic for many people who will see their 1st and 2nd choices on the CAO surge in points because of the skew these 25 points are going to cause.
Once again the Irish education system lets itself down.

spurious

Sounds like people only sat HL if they felt they were in with a chance.

Jackies green army

spurious wrote: »

Sounds like people only sat HL if they felt they were in with a chance.

that doesn't explain the disproportional pass rate compared with previous years, I'm sure the vast majority of those who sat previous years HL paper thought they were in with a chance yet the failure rate was around 10%.

spurious

It's a completely different exam and method of marking.
You're comparing apples and oranges.

We'll see soon whether it has an across the board effect on points, though points are nothing to do with the SEC and they can hardly be blamed for them.

dubdub123

I am not sure how to feel about this weighting at all. I studied maths at college and at that time the length of the course for leaving cert was extremely long. My daughter has just completed leaving cert and barring mathematics, sat all honours subjects.. There was a concern that due to previously high failure rates, that the risk of failing was too great and could undermine success in other subjects. She obtained over 500 points which she is thrilled with, but the fact that anyone who sat honours maths gets an automatic 25 points does not make sense. Even if the subject is weighted, shouldn't a person getting an A1 in maths receive higher additional points than someone who just scraped a pass? It does seem suspicious that such a high number of students have passed the exam this time around. I do congratulate anyway that has done well in honours maths but also those that have received high grades in other subject, such as history or english also deserve recognition.

eclipsechaser

They want more students doing HL Maths. That's why the Bonus Points have been brought in. It is having the desired effect.

I absolutely agree that the change in failure rate is highly dubious. It ties in far too closely with the Project Maths rollout and the rate is unprecedented.

If they really want more HL students, I suggest keeping the bonus point system (perhaps limiting it to Maths-relevant courses) AND allowing students to sit *both* HL and OL papers.

Hear me out!

Dubdub's daughter's situation is common. Many students who sit around the 30-50% are too afraid (rightly) of failure and opt for OL. However scoring 35% at HL is much harder than getting 70% at OL (in the old course anyway). Yet we punish the (better) 35% student severely. If we implement the above system, students failing HL would have a safety net of being able to use their OL result to get into college.

Instantly we would have a much greater number sitting HL Maths. No need for the hundred million euro new syllabus with dubious markings.

dubdub123 wrote: »

I am not sure how to feel about this weighting at all. I studied maths at college and at that time the length of the course for leaving cert was extremely long. My daughter has just completed leaving cert and barring mathematics, sat all honours subjects.. There was a concern that due to previously high failure rates, that the risk of failing was too great and could undermine success in other subjects. She obtained over 500 points which she is thrilled with, but the fact that anyone who sat honours maths gets an automatic 25 points does not make sense. Even if the subject is weighted, shouldn't a person getting an A1 in maths receive higher additional points than someone who just scraped a pass? It does seem suspicious that such a high number of students have passed the exam this time around. I do congratulate anyway that has done well in honours maths but also those that have received high grades in other subject, such as history or english also deserve recognition.

Togepi

As a Leaving Cert, myself and most other Leaving Certs I spoke to, as well as a couple of Maths teachers, expected Maths to be marked easily this year, simply because it's a new course. The logic: New course, high fail rate - bad idea! (not to mention numerous complaints from parents/guardians and students.) New course, low fail rate - fantastic, good thing that new course was brought in! Something like that anyway...

I was surprised with my own result, I expected a good 10% less than what I got. My result was strange then, because normally, I'm spot on at predicting results in Maths, it's the easiest subject to analyse marks-wise. I was spot on with my prediction when I did the old course, so the new marking scheme is definitely a bit... Odd.

Going by the, eh, 'logic' in my first paragraph above, maybe there will be more failures once the course is a couple of years old.

To me, Project Maths seems too dumbed down though. Very easy to do okay in without having done exam questions before. And there's too much English involved, it's unfair to gifted Maths students if they're not too good at writing. I can't complain though, I've been given a load of points for doing an easier course and managing to pass it. :cool:

Canard

Togepi wrote: »

To me, Project Maths seems too dumbed down though. Very easy to do okay in without having done exam questions before. And there's too much English involved, it's unfair to gifted Maths students if they're not too good at writing. I can't complain though, I've been given a load of points for doing an easier course and managing to pass it. :cool:

Hmm, this is something I've never understood when I think about it. In theory it's dumbed down, people laugh at it for being stats/probability heavy, but seriously, this year's P2 was anything but easy, even if it was marked easily.

But yeah I agree, I'm loving the extra points. Just to note though (this is in general, not at you Togepi :P), it's not a free/undeserved 25 points, or even necessarily 25...I got 10 from it because my next lowest (uncounted) result was a B3 and I got a C3 in maths. It has to actually get into your top 6 first!

Togepi

Patchy~ wrote: »

Hmm, this is something I've never understood when I think about it. In theory it's dumbed down, people laugh at it for being stats/probability heavy, but seriously, this year's P2 was anything but easy, even if it was marked easily.

But yeah I agree, I'm loving the extra points. Just to note though (this is in general, not at you Togepi :P), it's not a free/undeserved 25 points, or even necessarily 25...I got 10 from it because my next lowest (uncounted) result was a B3 and I got a C3 in maths. It has to actually get into your top 6 first!

I don't know, I think it's far easier to pass/get a C in, but far harder to get an A in.

Oh yeah, it's true it's not just a 25 points boost for everyone (unless you only do six subjects like me ), but still, I feel for my friends who did Maths last year, who worked their arses off, and struggled, and barely got the course finished, and then got their grades, and might not have even counted it, or if they did, it wasn't a huge help to them. I just imagine they would've had to work a good bit harder to get Bs, Cs and Ds, but they got no extra points. I wouldn't say we deserve them though. Why should we get 70 points for a D3 when students of the last few years only got 45? Not having a go at you like, just giving my opinion on the matter! :P

Canard

Togepi wrote: »

I don't know, I think it's far easier to pass/get a C in, but far harder to get an A in.

Oh yeah, it's true it's not just a 25 points boost for everyone (unless you only do six subjects like me ), but still, I feel for my friends who did Maths last year, who worked their arses off, and struggled, and barely got the course finished, and then got their grades, and might not have even counted it, or if they did, it wasn't a huge help to them. I just imagine they would've had to work a good bit harder to get Bs, Cs and Ds, but they got no extra points. I wouldn't say we deserve them though. Why should we get 70 points for a D3 when students of the last few years only got 45? Not having a go at you like, just giving my opinion on the matter! :P

I understand, debates are fun!
PS my C took blood, sweat and tears missy. :P (kind of )

And that's all true but if they reapply to the CAO at all, they get the points then! It's a pity for anyone who dropped beforehand but they couldn't have known - it had to happen sometime I guess, some year had to be the ones to miss out on it. Not that our exam was harder/easier than last year, I don't think they're comparable given P2 this year and the entire exam last year, but I think the people who pulled up their socks to pass deserve it just as much as the rest (even if they might have been dragged over the pass line!). It's also important to remember that if someone did 7 honours and got a D3 in maths theres a good chance they didnt count it today. It probably evens itself out somewhat, e.g. if I hadn't gotten my C3 I'd have 10 less points, but maybe I'd have gotten two more grades elsewhere.

eyescreamcone

Extra points for Maths is not a new invention.
I can remember the old points system
A=5points
B=4
C=3
D=2

HL Maths was given bonus points
A +2 =7
B +1 =5
C +1=4

So the max for 6 subjects was 30+2 =32.

I don't know what year the bonus points were taken off HL Maths.
Early 90s I think.

Don't anyone fool themselves into thinking that Maths is not the most important subject.
If by offering bonus points we encourage more study in this area, then we have done a good days work.