Incorrect grades given

JamesDundalk

Hi, if you're sure that a grade given was 100% inaccurate, or definitely a mistake, what (if any) is the fastest form of redress? I got a C1 in English, my best subject, have received A's consistently and exam went well on day. No shadow of a doubt that it's wrong, do Administrative errors regularly happen?:cool:

Skuxx

JamesDundalk wrote: »

Hi, if you're sure that a grade given was 100% inaccurate, or definitely a mistake, what (if any) is the fastest form of redress? I got a C1 in English, my best subject, have received A's consistently and exam went well on day. No shadow of a doubt that it's wrong, do Administrative errors regularly happen?:cool:

Yeah you get a recheck!! I wouldnt be expecting to go from a C1 to an A tho...

SureYWouldntYa

No-one in our entire year got higher than a C1 in Business, this despite several A's and a lot of B's in the mocks. Principal isn't convinced that anything is wrong, but there's 25 of us unhappy with the one subject

JamesDundalk

It's just odd, some teacher told me to get it rechecked immediately, that a young, inexperienced examiner ready to fall asleep probably scribbled down a grade, I suppose there's a lot of subjectivity in it. I don't know, it's just really annoying.

seriouslysweet

Recheck all the way. My cousin went from a C1 to a B1 two years ago...it was totted up wrong, two pages stuck together and weren't counted, dopey examiner!

plumpote

If you go through the whole recheck process, you'll get them back at the same time as everybody else (October?)
But, if there's a mistake in the adding up of the marks, or if they were put into the computer wrong- something that doesn't need a whole remarking of the script to put right-you can get them back quicker (usually a few days after the closing date of the appeals).
One of my papers was added up wrong last year (they forgot the marks from my essay) and I got the mark upgraded really quickly.

Chris68

JamesDundalk wrote: »

that a young, inexperienced examiner ready to fall asleep probably scribbled down a grade

That's quite a statement! BTW examiners gain experience through correcting JC papers for a few years before moving on to the LC.

Lollipops23

I had a meeting with my English teacher on the day, she was equally as surprised as me with my grade, as I'd been a b1/a2 student all throughout. She was lovely about it and went to view my script with me, and pointed out all the areas where I should have picked up marks- they'd even deducted marks in my poetry question for spelling/grammar, despite there being nothing wrong.
She advised me to appeal and I went up a grade

norrie rugger

JamesDundalk wrote: »

Hi, if you're sure that a grade given was 100% inaccurate, or definitely a mistake, what (if any) is the fastest form of redress? I got a C1 in English, my best subject, have received A's consistently and exam went well on day. No shadow of a doubt that it's wrong, do Administrative errors regularly happen?:cool:

Happened to me and I jumped 30% in Higher Biology.
This was in '99, the first year that you could check your papers yourself. The actual mark was sitting right there on the paper. It was an admin typo, ended up missing my Biology college course originally!! Lucky that I checked and did not have to repeat the year and went on to get my degree.
If you feel that strongly then ask to see your paper.


Edit: Some git is walking around with my original grade, lucky ignorant fool

Mysteriouschic

I'm annoyed with english to I also got A1/B1/C1 and ended up with a D1 I didn't get a single D this year.
And my whole family and everyone knows I should've gotten much higher. I'm getting mine rechecked too. Unlikely to get an A but at least a B .

fatboypee

Mysteriouschic wrote: »

I'm annoyed with english to I also got A1/B1/C1 and ended up with a D1 I didn't get a single D this year.
And my whole family and everyone knows I should've gotten much higher. I'm getting mine rechecked too. Unlikely to get an A but at least a B .

Happened to my daughter two years ago. Straight As all the way and suddenly a C1 in the paper she was 100% convinced she had done well in. Got the paper, checked it, her teacher was abhorred by mistakes in marking. Appealed, NO CHANGE.

This system as it stands both marking and re-checking is antiquated and deeply flawed, yet, when discussed here at the time when I suggested overhaul I was blown out of the water by outraged teachers that I would even moot such a possibility that checking, grading / rechecking could be any where near anything could automated / electronic ..:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

ButtersSuki

Long time ago.....but...

I was a straight A Maths student coming up to my Inter Cert (as I said, long time ago!). Flew the exam. Walked out knowing I had an A in the bag.

Got a D. Nearly died of shock - not to mention embarrassment after the abuse I got from my mates. Teenage boys, very mature....:rolleyes:

Went to have it checked. Got a D. My teacher and school principal complained and asked to see the paper. Got told to sod off basically by the Dept. Pushed it further and eventually got it rechecked. Got an A.

In the old days, on appeal, they did not re-check your paper. They simply added up the marks that were given for each question (which are filled in by the examiner on the first page) and calcuulated your appeal grade accordingly. Had to jump through some hoops to get the actual paper re-checked. Looks from the above posts like things have changed but my appeal process took pretty much all of 5th year to complete. It was April or May even of the following year before I got my amended grade. Now where this gets really messy is in my school you could not do Honours Maths unless you had at least a B in Honours in your Inter Cert. So it put me at a serious disadvantage for a while, but all worked out fine in the end.

spurious

Look at your script before you go to the expense of a recheck.

HeaneyBabe

I'm the same. After getting A's for the past 2 years and the occasional B in economics, I got a C1 in the exam. I've never gotten a C before, so I am guessing there could be a mistake considering I thought the exam went really well. I also studied so much for it

dambarude

If a clear mistake has been made in transferring your final mark/grade to the results database you can get it rectified without a recheck. An example would be where your results sheet said you got a B3 in Biology, but when your script was handed to you during viewing it said on the front page that you got 397/400 so should have got an A1. I'd say this happens very rarely though.

In the event that you discover a clear and substantial discrepancy between the mark awarded and the grade awarded, you should ask the Organising Superintendent for a Form AP1 and complete it in accordance with the instructions. The Organising Superintendent will attach Form AP1 to your script and send it to the SEC in Athlone where it will receive immediate attention. The SEC operates this facility of seeking rectification outside of the
appeals process solely for the purpose of putting right:-

(a) errors of transcription of the overall mark awarded by the examiner from the answerbook to the markingsheet on the part of the examiner; and/or,
(b) errors in the keying of the mark from the marking sheet onto the examinations database on the part of the SEC’s administrative staff.

You should note that this facility applies only where it is clear that the total mark awarded is inconsistent with the grade awarded and where the matter can be resolved administratively (i.e., without recourse to the examination
paper or the marking scheme).

See: http://www.examinations.ie/candidates/Candidate_Info_2012.pdf

norrie rugger

dambarude wrote: »

If a clear mistake has been made in transferring your final mark/grade to the results database you can get it rectified without a recheck. An example would be where your results sheet said you got a B3 in Biology, but when your script was handed to you during viewing it said on the front page that you got 397/400 so should have got an A1. I'd say this happens very rarely though.

Rarely does not matter to the individual.
That is what happened to me. I remember walking up to the teacher with my hands shaking, asking her to confirm what I was reading.

All hell broke lose that day, in the school. That was the first day ever that people were able to check their own exam papers.

implausible

JamesDundalk wrote: »

Hi, if you're sure that a grade given was 100% inaccurate, or definitely a mistake, what (if any) is the fastest form of redress? I got a C1 in English, my best subject, have received A's consistently and exam went well on day. No shadow of a doubt that it's wrong, do Administrative errors regularly happen?:cool:

There are a few possibilities here:

-Administrative error - totting up, transfer to SEC, missed pages. These do happen and are easily rectified.

-Receiving As consistently from your class teacher is not always an indication of an A on the day, especially if your teacher isn't a SEC examiner

-In my experience, 'A' students end up with Cs because they don't directly answer the question asked on the paper in the high mark questions i.e. essay, comparative. The most common example is the student who writes a fabulous short story with character, depth, a twist and all the bells and whistles, but whose story isn't 100% relevant to the title.

JamesDundalk

implausible wrote: »

JamesDundalk wrote: »

Hi, if you're sure that a grade given was 100% inaccurate, or definitely a mistake, what (if any) is the fastest form of redress? I got a C1 in English, my best subject, have received A's consistently and exam went well on day. No shadow of a doubt that it's wrong, do Administrative errors regularly happen?:cool:

There are a few possibilities here:

-Administrative error - totting up, transfer to SEC, missed pages. These do happen and are easily rectified.

-Receiving As consistently from your class teacher is not always an indication of an A on the day, especially if your teacher isn't a SEC examiner

-In my experience, 'A' students end up with Cs because they don't directly answer the question asked on the paper in the high mark questions i.e. essay, comparative. The most common example is the student who writes a fabulous short story with character, depth, a twist and all the bells and whistles, but whose story isn't 100% relevant to the title.

I can completely appreciate where you're coming from, however I'm a repeat, received higher the first time around, did a year of university, studied English for the year, achieved quite a high end of year grade (2:1), returned to redo exam this year. I've had exams sent to a separate SEC examiner and have received A's, and I wrote the exam diary for the exam in Irish Times! Not trying to sound arrogant at all, but genuinely think I deserved higher than a C1!

Neeson

I think they should get rid of English altogether. Maybe make it a spelling test. At least then you are either right or wrong. I mean one man's Edna O'Brien is another woman's Salman Rushdie.

alleystar

implausible wrote: »

There are a few possibilities here:

-Administrative error - totting up, transfer to SEC, missed pages. These do happen and are easily rectified.

-Receiving As consistently from your class teacher is not always an indication of an A on the day, especially if your teacher isn't a SEC examiner

-In my experience, 'A' students end up with Cs because they don't directly answer the question asked on the paper in the high mark questions i.e. essay, comparative. The most common example is the student who writes a fabulous short story with character, depth, a twist and all the bells and whistles, but whose story isn't 100% relevant to the title.

Agree with your first point but not the last two. I had seven different English teachers right throughout my five years in secondary and received A's consistently and got a C1 for my English exam yesterday. I suppose if you've had the same teacher for your full secondary education or your Leaving Cert course it might work out that way due to English being a subjective subject to a degree.

I really don't agree at all with the last point. In my experience it was the students who were getting D's, C's and low B's throughout the two years that answered/ read the questions incorrectly, in my year anyway at least. I always re-read a question at least three times and then went about writing up a plan/keywords etc. Usually the A students in any subject are more confident with the exam papers and have completed as many as possible. An A student knows how to adapt information and always refers back to the question at least once in every paragraph. That's what I believe anyway.

Chavways

My Irish teacher is shocked that almost nobody in the class got an A. He is one of the chief examiners and has been correcting papers for years.He said that a lot of us would have been brought down grades because we were some of the last to be corrected and that they had to keep the grades in proportion with the Bell Curve.

I'm realy pissed off anyway because I thought I was going to get an A1 and only got a B2. Definitely getting it checked.

implausible

alleystar wrote: »

In my experience it was the students who were getting D's, C's and low B's throughout the two years that answered/ read the questions incorrectly, in my year anyway at least. I always re-read a question at least three times and then went about writing up a plan/keywords etc. Usually the A students in any subject are more confident with the exam papers and have completed as many as possible. An A student knows how to adapt information and always refers back to the question at least once in every paragraph. That's what I believe anyway.

I have to disagree. It is quite frustrating as an examiner to see a student who obviously has ability drop a few grades because they misread, ignored or didn't stick to the essay title. They obviously knew the stuff, but it wasn't enough. 'A' students often suffer from over-confidence too.

However, if you are sure that you directly addressed the title in every essay and because it sounds like you have good exam technique, it is well worth your while appealing.

JamesDundalk

implausible wrote: »

alleystar wrote: »

In my experience it was the students who were getting D's, C's and low B's throughout the two years that answered/ read the questions incorrectly, in my year anyway at least. I always re-read a question at least three times and then went about writing up a plan/keywords etc. Usually the A students in any subject are more confident with the exam papers and have completed as many as possible. An A student knows how to adapt information and always refers back to the question at least once in every paragraph. That's what I believe anyway.

I have to disagree. It is quite frustrating as an examiner to see a student who obviously has ability drop a few grades because they misread, ignored or didn't stick to the essay title. They obviously knew the stuff, but it wasn't enough. 'A' students often suffer from over-confidence too.

However, if you are sure that you directly addressed the title in every essay and because it sounds like you have good exam technique, it is well worth your while appealing.

Are you an examiner, is it possible mine was an admin error? As in somebody accidenty misconstrued an A for a C and consequently transcribed it incorrectly, wishful thinking?

alleystar

implausible wrote: »

I have to disagree. It is quite frustrating as an examiner to see a student who obviously has ability drop a few grades because they misread, ignored or didn't stick to the essay title. They obviously knew the stuff, but it wasn't enough. 'A' students often suffer from over-confidence too.

However, if you are sure that you directly addressed the title in every essay and because it sounds like you have good exam technique, it is well worth your while appealing.

I'm usually not classed as "over confident"regarding English however receiving a C1 yesterday really angered me. To be brutally honest I didn't expect an A because of the poetry part and I had accepted that I would most likely get a B and I would have been content with that. However after getting a C I'm gutted, especially when others are saying that they messed up the poetry part and expected nothing more than a C1 and came out with A's and B's. I don't like begrudging people of grades but I was slightly irked when I discovered this. I love English, I love to write and read in my spare time and I always loved studying Hamlet, the comparative studies and the poems. For me English homework was not a chore for me to do after school, I took pleasure in it. Getting a C1 in a subject you love is devastating

Because of that I will appeal.

rainbowtrout

JamesDundalk wrote: »

Are you an examiner, is it possible mine was an admin error? As in somebody accidenty misconstrued an A for a C and consequently transcribed it incorrectly, wishful thinking?

Nobody will be able to answer that question except you when you view the paper. Errors happen in transcription. In an ideal world they shouldn't happen but they do. I know it affects peoples choices in college and delays appealing grades and getting late offers etc, but no system is infallible.

If you are a straight A student in English as you say and you think there is something definitely wrong with your C1 view the script. It's free to do so.Check that the marks add up first, not only on the front of the paper but for each question. You may find an error there. If the marks are totted up correctly and no section has been left out of the total or no page has been left uncorrected by accident, then go through each question and see where you have lost marks and compare it to the marking scheme. If you think that then that there is a justification for more marks being awarded then send it for recorrection. There is a space on the form where you can comment on where you think you deserve more marks. Of course, it could have been marked fairly and you might find that you misinterpreted a question.


I have to agree with implausible's point. I have viewed many scripts with students over the years, and have had some come to me saying 'I definitely deserved more than X grade' and when I viewed the script/compared it to marking scheme, read what the question was looking for often the student had written all around the point but not actually made the point, and got no marks.

I had an excellent chemistry student a few years back, got a B1, thought myself she would have got an A, as she was an A student the whole way through. Viewed the exam on the day, I was reading out the questions from a 6 part question and she was rattling off the answers orally, and I was then looking at her answers in her booklet. Came to one part of the question which she gave me the answer to orally and checked the booklet and couldn't see it, thought she answered it elsewhere but no, she simply missed it on the day, moved from part D to part F without realising, missed out on the marks and would have got the A had she answered it. But she was full sure before viewing that she deserved an A and then found that it was her own mistake that cost her the grade.


Moral of story: reserve judgement until you see your paper.

spurious

Chavways wrote: »

My Irish teacher is shocked that almost nobody in the class got an A. He is one of the chief examiners and has been correcting papers for years.He said that a lot of us would have been brought down grades because we were some of the last to be corrected and that they had to keep the grades in proportion with the Bell Curve.

I'm realy pissed off anyway because I thought I was going to get an A1 and only got a B2. Definitely getting it checked.

Your 'Chief Examiner' teacher doesn't understand how the bell curve is applied. It doesn't just affect the last scripts to be corrected, or those of one or two correctors, the changes in marking scheme are applied to ALL scripts.

Some of these spoofers should really stop telling students lies.

QueenOfLeon

Some posts removed so that an informative thread isn't dragged down by petty comments and personal remarks.

Let's try keep it on topic

Anyone who is in this position should wait until they view their paper with an experienced teacher before they get worked up about what their corrector may or may not have done. You might have skipped a question by accident, misread a question, etc. Hopefully this is not the case but it happens to people every year.

Cruel Sun

spurious wrote: »

Some of these spoofers should really stop telling students lies.

What happened then? My entire business class was left disappointed. People who got 97/98 percent in the mocks all gone down to low B's. I was sure I'd gotten an A, worked hard at the subject for the 2 years, as did many others. We had a fantastic teacher, who used to mark leaving certs, I got an A in almost every test yet I only get a B2 in the exam.

How can a whole class do that badly? It seems fairly inconsistent to me, why was our school singled out, why are some schools given easier markers than others, all they have to do is follow a marking scheme. The subject is business, it's not as if it's English, in most cases the answer is either right or wrong.

Honestly something like Chavways described doesn't seem impossible either.

randylonghorn

alleystar wrote: »

Agree with your first point but not the last two.

Implausible's points are valid, alley; they may not apply to you but that doesn't make them any less valid as general comments.

View your paper with a teacher, and preferably one who is an experienced LC corrector, and then decide about the appeal.

Cruel Sun wrote: »

Honestly something like Chavways described doesn't seem impossible either.

What, that the last students to be corrected get penalised or rewarded depending on whether there are considered to be already too many or too few A-grades, etc?

Seriously, not the way it works, Martin.

rainbowtrout

Cruel Sun wrote: »

What happened then? My entire business class was left disappointed. People who got 97/98 percent in the mocks all gone down to low B's. I was sure I'd gotten an A, worked hard at the subject for the 2 years, as did many others. We had a fantastic teacher, who used to mark leaving certs, I got an A in almost every test yet I only get a B2 in the exam.

How can a whole class do that badly? It seems fairly inconsistent to me, why was our school singled out, why are some schools given easier markers than others, all they have to do is follow a marking scheme. The subject is business, it's not as if it's English, in most cases the answer is either right or wrong.

Honestly something like Chavways described doesn't seem impossible either.

Mocks are not the same as the real thing. Neither is the way a teacher marks necessarily a reflection on what will be accepted in the real thing.

Mocks are created by companies who are in the business to make money. They are not necessarily written or corrected by teachers. They don't have to abide by any particular standard. The school I teach in sends away mocks to be corrected, more often than not I have to recorrect mocks on their return because they have been marked badly (either too easy or too hard).

Getting an A in the mock means absolutely nothing in the greater scheme of things. Clearly it gives you an indication that you are doing well if you were able to answer everything on the paper but mock papers are not corrected to the same standard as the real thing.

Your school was not singled out. It is quite possible that your teacher (despite having corrected etc etc) was approaching a question in class the wrong way, you have all answered it the wrong way and all lost marks. I have seen it happen before. It may be a case that so many are rote learning answers for Business that the marking scheme requires specific answers and anything wishy washy is not given marks. A whole class cannot be singled out in the marking process and marking differently to the rest of the country so you have to consider other options like I have outlined above.


There could be a question saying 'Describe SWOT analysis - 12 marks' (My knowledge of the business course is very limited).

So a student writes down Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats and goes no further.

On viewing scheme they may discover that they had to elaborate and explain what each of these were and end up with only 4/12.


Again, reserve judgement on your business paper until you see it. You may be entitled to more marks or you might not. There could have been one question on the paper where one word in the question caused a lot of people to misinterpret the meaning of the question without realizing it and cause a loss of marks.

Cruel Sun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It is quite possible that your teacher (despite having corrected etc etc) was approaching a question in class the wrong way, you have all answered it the wrong way and all lost marks.

No, he approached every question the right way. His way of approaching questions were the same as mentioned by other teachers, books and internet.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Your school was not singled out.

I beg to differ.

randylonghorn wrote: »

What, that the last students to be corrected get penalised or rewarded depending on whether there are considered to be already too many or too few A-grades, etc?

I think it's possible, people can be lazy sometimes. Either way I don't understand how our school performed so poorly at the subject, usually the business class receives a lot of A's.