Croke Park Agreement beyond 2014

ncdadam

woodoo wrote: »

Thats true it is one day a month where i work too. I don't see the problem with it. People still work their total hours.

How many hours a week does the average PS worker work?

woodoo

n97 mini wrote: »

Is he on here all day long defending the PS?

And the hypocrites on here scorning such practice are at the same thing. So much for the ultra efficient private sector.

I'm off on a flexi day would you believe. That's why i have the time to post. God help this country if our private sector spend their days on forums obsessing about the PS rather than generating wealth. Tut tut tut.

woodoo

ncdadam wrote: »

How many hours a week does the average PS worker work?

I don't know.

Farmer Pudsey

ncdadam wrote: »

How many hours a week does the average PS worker work?

Not sure what the average PS employee works but alot are employed for 35 hour weeks.

woodoo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not sure what the average PS employee works but alot are employed for 35 hour weeks.

That's what i work and i wouldn't be willing to work any more. Average hours in Germany are 36. Average in Greece are 42. Work smart not long.

murphaph

woodoo wrote: »

This happens in the private sector too. I know people working in solicitors office that are at the same thing. Don't try and pretend this is a PS issue. This happens in all areas.

I'M NOT PAYING TOWARDS THE WAGES OF YOUR SOLICITOR AQUAINTANCES and I can move my legal business elsewhere if my solicitor is too expensive because of their innefficiencies. I AM paying towards all public servants wages and I cannot move my business from Revenue to "some other tax authority". I have no choice but to use them.

Revenue, contrary to what everyone seems to think are not that sh!t hot either. I sent an email to the collectr general's office (general info address) last Monday asking for a form to be emailed or posted to me as the payslip (Form 11) in the online version is unusable. I still haven't even gotten a response. Great service eh?

In the end I emailed my mother who got a Form 11 from the tax office and posted it to me privately. It arrived here in Berlin this morning. If people in Revenue were doing their jobs properly the payslip would be online as part of the form (as it is in the paper copy) and they would have at least answered my email query by now. Useless!!!

n97 mini

woodoo wrote: »

God help this country if our private sector spend their days on forums obsessing about the PS rather than generating wealth. Tut tut tut.

And imagine if the public sector spent their days on forums wasting that wealth.

Then we'd really be screwed.

woodoo

murphaph wrote: »

I'M NOT PAYING TOWARDS THE WAGES OF YOUR SOLICITOR AQUAINTANCES and I can move my legal business elsewhere if my solicitor is too expensive because of their innefficiencies. I AM paying towards all public servants wages and I cannot move my business from Revenue to "some other tax authority". I have no choice but to use them.!

I'm only disputing this nonsense that the private sector are a bastion of efficiency like many of you would like to portray. All we here is 'in the private sector this would happen and that would happen' but the truth is the private sector and the public sector are not that different as far as dossing are concerned. I worked in the private sector for years before joining the PS i've seen enough of it. I'm not saying its right but it happens.

donalg1

ncdadam wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

My maths are not an attempt at laying the blame they are simply where I put the blame in my opinion, you say its the fault of the public sector for not regulating the private sector, come on now get real the people that borrowed recklessly are to blame for their borrowings, not the regulators. Yes Fianna Fail were spending money like it was going out of fashion, spending every cent they made and then some more.

But if you ask me I would lay the blame of the mess we are in firmly at those that borrowed money they could never afford to pay back purely because they got greedy and that goes from the massive developers that owe hundreds of millions right down to the lad next door that took out a huge mortgage he never needed and never could afford. And dont bother saying that it was the regulators fault that he was allowed to borrow that much, because at the end of the day he is the one that borrowed it.

Who borrowed the money that's gone into our bankrupted banks?
Did you?

I think every tax payer is paying for the bankrupt banks. My point is the country is fcuked as a result of this and its the fault of the banks, builders and anyone that borrowed recklessly.

Farmer Pudsey

woodoo wrote: »

That's what i work and i wouldn't be willing to work any more. Average hours in Germany are 36. Average in Greece are 42. Work smart not long.

But the PS works neither smart nor long

woodoo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

But the PS works neither smart nor long

Link please

OMD

donalg1 wrote: »

I think every tax payer is paying for the bankrupt banks. My point is the country is fcuked as a result of this and its the fault of the banks, builders and anyone that borrowed recklessly.

No, no, no.
The country is not ****ed because of builders etc. the country is ****ed because during the boom, social welfare and PS wages were increased to levels that could not be sustained in the absence of the boom. Once the country tanked, we should have been able to say, "sorry everyone, the increase was artificial, now back to reality"

If the boom was not squandered on these things (and yes you can name other waste of money white elephants) we could have reduced our national debt to zero and had proper funds put aside for this rainy day

woodoo

OMD wrote: »

No, no, no.
The country is not ****ed because of builders etc. the country is ****ed because during the boom, social welfare and PS wages were increased to levels that could not be sustained in the absence of the boom. Once the country tanked, we should have been able to say, "sorry everyone, the increase was artificial, now back to reality"

If the boom was not squandered on these things (and yes you can name other waste of money white elephants) we could have reduced our national debt to zero and had proper funds put aside for this rainy day

The party that so many voted for are the main culprits. .. FF

Saganist

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

But the PS works neither smart nor long

How can you just throw the whole PS under the same blanket statement like above ? That's a ridiculous comment.

Im a PS worker and can safely say that I do more hours in my current job than I have ever done in any other PS or Private Sector job in the past.

donalg1

OMD wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

I think every tax payer is paying for the bankrupt banks. My point is the country is fcuked as a result of this and its the fault of the banks, builders and anyone that borrowed recklessly.

No, no, no.
The country is not ****ed because of builders etc. the country is ****ed because during the boom, social welfare and PS wages were increased to levels that could not be sustained in the absence of the boom. Once the country tanked, we should have been able to say, "sorry everyone, the increase was artificial, now back to reality"

If the boom was not squandered on these things (and yes you can name other waste of money white elephants) we could have reduced our national debt to zero and had proper funds put aside for this rainy day

Yes squandered by fianna fail of course p1ssed up against the wall really. But are you saying the bailout wasn't really that big a deal and that the lad on social welfare of 188 a week is at fault for the mess we are in. Because if that is what you are saying well personally I would rather blame the banks the developers and the idiots that took out massive mortgages they coukdnt afford

OMD

woodoo wrote: »

The party that so many voted for are the main culprits. .. FF

They may be but their main problem is they increased PS pay and social welfare to unsustainable levels

fliball123

donalg1 wrote: »

My maths are not an attempt at laying the blame they are simply where I put the blame in my opinion, you say its the fault of the public sector for not regulating the private sector, come on now get real the people that borrowed recklessly are to blame for their borrowings, not the regulators. Yes Fianna Fail were spending money like it was going out of fashion, spending every cent they made and then some more.

But if you ask me I would lay the blame of the mess we are in firmly at those that borrowed money they could never afford to pay back purely because they got greedy and that goes from the massive developers that owe hundreds of millions right down to the lad next door that took out a huge mortgage he never needed and never could afford. And dont bother saying that it was the regulators fault that he was allowed to borrow that much, because at the end of the day he is the one that borrowed it.

I never said the public sector where to blame either...If you look at the decisions made by the government over the last 20 years...I would say that the following 6 decisions to raise social welfare followed by benchmarking X 2 followed by the CPA followed by the bank guarantee followed by the decision to base tax on stamp duty followed by Nama, are the 6 decisions that have got this country into the sh1t conundrum that it is in. Regardless of the irish or the world ecconomy had a different approach been taken on all 6 of these we would not be where we are now..

So I weight it like this..

Decision 1
The decision to raise social welfare has the country held hostage to 21 odd billion a year. That allows for girls to fall pregnant at 16/17 and be dependent on the state for the next 18 years..In that 18 years they get a regular wage, other little perks like cash for a pram, communion dress etc, aswell as a house, on top of incentivising people not to get out of bed in the morning and to sleep on till noon.

Who made this decision and who supported it. The loony left and the gov to buy votes.

Decision 2

Benchmarking I and II , god knows how much that is costing us in extra payments to the couple of hundred thousand public sector employees or the now retired Public sector employees who are no longer working and god knows how much it will cost us when the existing 300k keep working and retire in the future..

Who made this decision and who supported it. Labour , the unions and the public sector ...everyone had a big party as the property bubble was never going to burst and the cash coming in was always going to be there.

Decision 3
The Croke Park Agreement - How much is that costing us..We are still paying increments..We have departments like health and education where large proportions of its budget cannot be touched due to it being ring fenced via the CPA..Forcing us to make decisions like cutting care to home health, sending our kids to sh1tty prefab makeshift schools...How much is this costing??

Who made this decision and who supported it... Once again unions, labour and the public sector

Decision 4
The Bank Guarantee - Basically Brian Lendahand was taken to the cleaners by the bankers, also force was put on him via the IMF, how much is it costing about 1/3 of our deficit and our debt. The problem here was no one knew what would happen if the banks where told to go fcuk themselves we could of been worse off we could have been better off...

Who made this decision - Gov, strong armed into via IMF and the bankers.

Decision 5

The decision to base our tax base on stamp duty. bertie bought votes by lowering tax rates, due to the scandalous amount they were making via the property bubble...which unfortunately burst. Now people will say we are now a low tax economy but I differ when our stealth taxes are taken into account we are a fairly high tax economy. Never the less this decision is one of the reason why there was such a big deficit between spending and income.

Who made the decision - Gov - once again the the lads had champagne taste and lemonade pockets...

Decision 6 - Nama - fcuk all the properties into this vehicle and in 5/6 years time we will make a profit..Wholley fcuknuckles what genius put this together - How much has this cost us...about 20/30 billion but at least its not a yearly cost..The only problem is the value of this property is going down by the day...

So when you look at this I would say the people to blame are as follows

The government both past and present - public sector employees last time I checked but not indicative off all ps workers at least 60% the reason why we are where we are

The unions - Protect our current members no matter what the cost to anyone else including new members - about 20% responsible.

10% I would lay the blame at bankers / builders who lent recklessly and pushed the bubble to the limit

The IMF who forced the bank guarantee - 10%


I dont blame the PS in general as if you offer a dog a bone they are going to take your hand off to get it...So you were only doing what anyone else would do. Same way you cannot blame the general population who make up the private sector..The majority of which are just told to bend over and take it. Same goes with the guys on the social welfare.

Now the gov seem to be where anger should be pointed at but the usual suspects will come on saying well we voted them in...But if you look at FGs 2:1 ratio of cuts vs spend which was the main reason they were the biggest party they have not been allowed to do this..So there needs to be a C change in the way people get elected or they need to be held accountable sooner than 5 years (until the next General Election)

murphaph

Abstract
We investigate the public-private wage differentials in ten euro area countries (Austria,
Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Slovenia and Spain). To account for differences in employment characteristics between the two sectors, we focus on micro data taken from EU-SILC. The results point to a conditional pay differential in favour of the public sector that is generally higher for women, at the low tail of the wage distribution, in the Education and the Public administration sectors rather than in the Health sector. Notable differences emerge across countries, with Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain exhibiting higher public sector premia than other countries.

(My bold)
Source

So, all the basket cases have relatively high public sector premia. No surprises there tbh. There are plenty of tables and graphs in there but the inescapable fact remains: Ireland's public sector pay premium is proportionally much greater than all the sane norther European economies and indeed the UK. Only the PIIGS countries give us a run for our money in this regard. Dreadful stuff really.

Table 3b on page 15 is the key one. It shows the net (to be fair and accept the pension levy as a pay cut which I think it was) hourly premium in 10Eurozone countries to be so:

Country|Private|Public|Premium
AT|12|15|24%
BE|15|17|12%
DE|14|17|19%
ES|9|13|44%
FR|13|15|15%
GR|7|11|49%
IE|17|24|42%
IT|11|15|38%
PT|5|9|77%
SI|7|9|28%


Ireland pays it's public sector workers a 42% premium per hour worked compared to the Irish private sector. A lot more to be done to bring us closer to reality.

The Bishop Basher

woodoo wrote: »

I'm only disputing this nonsense that the private sector are a bastion of efficiency like many of you would like to portray. All we here is 'in the private sector this would happen and that would happen' but the truth is the private sector and the public sector are not that different as far as dossing are concerned. I worked in the private sector for years before joining the PS i've seen enough of it. I'm not saying its right but it happens.

Called the passport office this morning as I need a passport urgently and I had some questions about the process. There was an automated message stating that they had closed the lines due to the volume of calls. This would never happen in the private sector. We can't afford to stop answering calls just because we're busy. We find innovative and creative ways to deal with the issue. The simple reality is that if we don't respond to our customers they go elsewhere. Not so for the public sector. It's essentially a monopoly.

Tried calling back at 4:35. Got a message telling me the office is now closed. Once again, this would never happen in the private sector. We close when our customers stop calling. Reason being, if we don't respond, they go elsewhere. Again, obviously not so for the public sector.

I'm pretty sure had I tried at lunch time I would have got that insane message that the office is now closed for lunch from 12:30 to 2pm. There's not a private company in the country that shuts its doors for an hour an a half at lunchtime. They can't afford to.

You may have met some dossers in the private sector in the past but there's not many now. it's a different world.

The difference is not so much the people but the culture. Public sector needs a serious wake up call but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Life is just too comfortable.

If a private company was run the same way, it would be bankrupt within weeks.

donalg1

murphaph wrote: »

Abstract
We investigate the public-private wage differentials in ten euro area countries (Austria,
Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Slovenia and Spain). To account for differences in employment characteristics between the two sectors, we focus on micro data taken from EU-SILC. The results point to a conditional pay differential in favour of the public sector that is generally higher for women, at the low tail of the wage distribution, in the Education and the Public administration sectors rather than in the Health sector. Notable differences emerge across countries, with Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain exhibiting higher public sector premia than other countries.

(My bold)
Source

So, all the basket cases have relatively high public sector premia. No surprises there tbh. There are plenty of tables and graphs in there but the inescapable fact remains: Ireland's public sector pay premium is proportionally much greater than all the sane norther European economies and indeed the UK. Only the PIIGS countries give us a run for our money in this regard. Dreadful stuff really.

Table 3b on page 15 is the key one. It shows the net (to be fair and accept the pension levy as a pay cut which I think it was) hourly premium in 10Eurozone countries to be so:

Country|Private|Public|Premium
AT|12|15|24%
BE|15|17|12%
DE|14|17|19%
ES|9|13|44%
FR|13|15|15%
GR|7|11|49%
IE|17|24|42%
IT|11|15|38%
PT|5|9|77%
SI|7|9|28%


Ireland pays it's public sector workers a 42% premium per hour worked compared to the Irish private sector. A lot more to be done to bring us closer to reality.

No they don't its closer to 25%.

Jellicoe

femur61 wrote: »

And what the interests of the people, who incidently pay their wages. In order to keep teachers on their inflated wages we are loosing SNAs, lack of resorces in the classroom. Beds in hospitals are being closed, home help and home care is affected. the careers allownaceis decimated - all to keep the upper echoleons of the PS with an inflated wage.

Public servants pay the exact same taxes as any other worker, and then spend whats left on private sector goods and services.

I see some people still like to pretend to ordinary public sector employees caused this financial problem and are the solution; neither is correct, and then offer a false dilemma as how it can be resolved.

Killing wages, public and private kills what’s left of the economy

May I remind you that in ONE single day last year 6 Billion of our taxpayers money was given to Anglo Irish Bank Bondholders, whoses names must remain secret. That’s a lot of hospital beds, SNAs, resources in the classroom, beds in hospital, home help care, careers allowance etc. Of course this truth is never referred to. It would not suit the cowardly agenda.

Keep spining the lies, the more you spin them, the more see through they become

donalg1

Swanner wrote: »

woodoo wrote: »

I'm only disputing this nonsense that the private sector are a bastion of efficiency like many of you would like to portray. All we here is 'in the private sector this would happen and that would happen' but the truth is the private sector and the public sector are not that different as far as dossing are concerned. I worked in the private sector for years before joining the PS i've seen enough of it. I'm not saying its right but it happens.

Called the passport office this morning as I need a passport urgently and I had some questions about the process. There was an automated message stating that they had closed the lines due to the volume of calls. This would never happen in the private sector. We can't afford to stop answering calls just because we're busy. We find innovative and creative ways to deal with the issue. The simple reality is that if we don't respond to our customers they go elsewhere. Not so for the public sector. It's essentially a monopoly.

Tried calling back at 4:35. Got a message telling me the office is now closed. Once again, this would never happen in the private sector. We close when our customers stop calling. Reason being, if we don't respond, they go elsewhere. Again, obviously not so for the public sector.

I'm pretty sure had I tried at lunch time I would have got that insane message that the office is now closed for lunch from 12:30 to 2pm. There's not a private company in the country that shuts its doors for an hour an a half at lunchtime. They can't afford to.

You may have met some dossers in the private sector in the past but there's not many now. it's a different world.

The difference is not so much the people but the culture. Public sector needs a serious wake up call but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Life is just too comfortable.

If a private company was run the same way, it would be bankrupt within weeks.

Plenty of private companies don't stay open until the customers stop calling saying they do is nonsense.

Jellicoe

Swanner wrote: »

Called the passport office this morning as I need a passport urgently and I had some questions about the process. There was an automated message stating that they had closed the lines due to the volume of calls. This would never happen in the private sector. We can't afford to stop answering calls just because we're busy. We find innovative and creative ways to deal with the issue. The simple reality is that if we don't respond to our customers they go elsewhere. Not so for the public sector. It's essentially a monopoly.

Tried calling back at 4:35. Got a message telling me the office is now closed. Once again, this would never happen in the private sector. We close when our customers stop calling. Reason being, if we don't respond, they go elsewhere. Again, obviously not so for the public sector.

I'm pretty sure had I tried at lunch time I would have got that insane message that the office is now closed for lunch from 12:30 to 2pm. There's not a private company in the country that shuts its doors for an hour an a half at lunchtime. They can't afford to.

You may have met some dossers in the private sector in the past but there's not many now. it's a different world.

The difference is not so much the people but the culture. Public sector needs a serious wake up call but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Life is just too comfortable.

If a private company was run the same way, it would be bankrupt within weeks.

The Irish private sector is a joke, I've put up with inferior, rude, rip off and shoddy service from it for years. Lets not forget the wonderfully honest Irish private sector caused the mess we're in.

EIRCON, QUINN, ANGLO, NAMA etc. just for starters are all prime examples of the wonderful fruits of the Irish private sector.

The Bishop Basher

They certainly don't shut at 4:30.

The Bishop Basher

Jellicoe wrote: »

The Irish private sector is a joke, I've put up with inferior, rude, rip off and shoddy service from it for years. Lets not forget the wonderfully honest Irish private sector caused the mess we're in.

EIRCON is a prime example of privatisation Irish style

That reads as rant rant waffle waffle rant. I don't see any examples there other then one very spurious one for obvious reasons. Is that really the best you can do ?

ardmacha

The government both past and present - public sector employees last time I checked but not indicative off all ps workers at least 60% the reason why we are where we are

The government and its policies are set by the electorate, most of whom are in the private sector.

donalg1

Swanner wrote: »

Jellicoe wrote: »

The Irish private sector is a joke, I've put up with inferior, rude, rip off and shoddy service from it for years. Lets not forget the wonderfully honest Irish private sector caused the mess we're in.

EIRCON is a prime example of privatisation Irish style

That reads as rant rant waffle waffle rant. I don't see any examples there other then one very spurious one for obvious reasons. Is that really the best you can do ?

Rant rant waffle would be used for your rant about the passport office too. The private sector is full of incompetent useless lazy fools, same as the public sector but both sectors are also full of intelligent, helpful and efficient employees also. However most of the companies I have had trouble with incompetent rude useless staff are part of the private sector.

Lumbo

murphaph wrote: »

It's incredible that an extra day's leave could have been granted just for staggering lunch breaks. It would just happen in the private sector if needed and no incentive would be expected nor offered. The fact that such ridiculous benefits were/are there for the CPA to prune says an awful lot about the mentality that pervades the public sector. It really is a parallel universe in many ways.

I worked in Retail for 15 years for 3 different companies which all have unions operating in them. From my personal experiences your comment is nonsense. Any major changes in operations in these Private Sector companies were negotiated with unions and if there was difference of opinion that may lead to industrial unrest an incentive was offered by management, it might have been an increase in the rate of pay, better overtime, staff discounts etc. Throw out whatever regurgitated lines you want, have a read of some Labour Court decisions and see what Private Sector employers offer employees to implement change. You might learn something about the real world instead of ranting away in your own personal parallel universe.

murphaph

donalg1 wrote: »

No they don't its closer to 25%.

The Monthl gross wage has a 25% premium. The hourly rate has a 42% premium, according to the results of this study (which is current, it includes the pension levy and the actual pay cut in 2010).

The difference is presumably accounted for by public sector workers working fewer hours on average than the private sector. At the end of the day, the hourly rate is what counts! That's how much you are being paid for your effort.

fliball123

donalg1 wrote: »

Rant rant waffle would be used for your rant about the passport office too. The private sector is full of incompetent useless lazy fools, same as the public sector but both sectors are also full of intelligent, helpful and efficient employees also. However most of the companies I have had trouble with incompetent rude useless staff are part of the private sector.

The difference is that in the private sector usually there is competition..If you dont like your mobile provider, if they are rude, too expensive or dont open on hours that suit more times than not an alternative exists that you can go to that will give you what you need...This gov needs to start bringing in competition to public sector domains such as bus Eireann, allow more than CIE on the bus and rail network, let others outside the country have some access to electricity grid and allow gas to come in from else where..We need to drive the prices of things down...Allow more banks to come in..give them a year without paying any tax on the premise that they stay for 10 years, same goes with things like doing NCT or Getting your passport done...Privatize as much as you can keep the semi states or state depts going and let them compete. If nothing else it introduces competition and will drive the prices for everything in this country down.

donalg1

fliball123 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Rant rant waffle would be used for your rant about the passport office too. The private sector is full of incompetent useless lazy fools, same as the public sector but both sectors are also full of intelligent, helpful and efficient employees also. However most of the companies I have had trouble with incompetent rude useless staff are part of the private sector.

The difference is that in the private sector usually there is competition..If you dont like your mobile provider, if they are rude, too expensive or dont open on hours that suit more times than not an alternative exists that you can go to that will give you what you need...This gov needs to start bringing in competition to public sector domains such as bus Eireann, allow more than CIE on the bus and rail network, let others outside the country have some access to electricity grid and allow gas to come in from else where..We need to drive the prices of things down...Allow more banks to come in..give them a year without paying any tax on the premise that they stay for 10 years, same goes with things like doing NCT or Getting your passport done...Privatize as much as you can keep the semi states or state depts going and let them compete. If nothing else it introduces competition and will drive the prices for everything in this country down.

Happened here with the bins, the council now no longer do them anymore and the prices are heading back up. They are already higher now than the councils prices. The private companies undercut the council until they left the market and have now upped their prices.

There is talk of the water charges going to a semi state too.

Anyway my point was generalising one sector is pointless as they are as bad or as a good as each other.

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

Dont forget, that one cannot simply up and go. there has to be cover.

That depends on the area. Where I worked there was no requirement for staff to stay beyond 4:30pm so the public office closed at 4:15pm (still does, I just checked the website).

kceire wrote: »

you can argue that its a better system than having 6000 staff member enter one public office at the same time,

close for lunch at the same time and leave at rush hour at the same time. It staggers entering and exiting in one sense.[/QUOTE]
Better for who. And besides there is no single office in the state that has has 6,000 staff.

kceire wrote: »

again its one day, not days per month.

12 days extra off a year isn't bad either.

ardmacha

The hourly rate has a 42% premium, according to the results of this study (which is current, it includes the pension levy and the actual pay cut in 2010).

The report includes the pension levy and the actual pay cut in 2010, but does the 42% calculation include this? Perhaps you would be kind enough to show evidence of this, as all of their graphs end in 2008 and the pension levy is essentially mentioned in an appendix.

That depends on the area. Where I worked there was no requirement for staff to stay beyond 4:30pm so the public office closed at 4:15pm

There is no doubt that some offices have been run to suit the staff and this has to stop.
But as usual it is not quite a question off public v private, at any time in the last 150 years the publicly owned Post Office opened longer than the privately owned banks. Likewise casualty at Vincents is open longer than at the Beacon Clinic.

n97 mini

donalg1 wrote: »

I think every tax payer is paying for the bankrupt banks. My point is the country is fcuked as a result of this and its the fault of the banks, builders and anyone that borrowed recklessly.

Not this again. The banks have been dealt with, possibly for good. Public spending is still a runaway train, piling another €55 million a day onto our national debt.

And besides, if a deal is done on the bank debt, which is looking increasingly likely, it will be removed from the national debt and someone else will take the hit.

Jellicoe

To those who want to scap the croke park agreement, what do you want instead ?

1) Leave all the high paid, bloted, well connected PS management layers practically untouched as usual, and put 50,000-100,000 extra people on the dole ? - Where they will get up 20-30k in benefits for sitting at home anyway ?

or

2) Leave all the high paid, bloted, well connected PS management layers practically untouched as usual, and cut the wages of the middle and ordinary workers even further ? Wages where approx. 50% goes back to the exchequer in taxes, levies etc. and whats left gets spent on private sector spending, so less money there.

n97 mini

donalg1 wrote: »

However most of the companies I have had trouble with incompetent rude useless staff are part of the private sector.

That's because they answer the phone!

Jellicoe

n97 mini wrote: »

Not this again. The banks have been dealt with, possibly for good.

LOL no, we've just transferred billions of THEIR PRIVATE SECTOR, PRIVATE debts into PUBLIC bonds, that MUST be REPAID AT GREAT COST, PLUS INTREST, BY THE ORDINARY IRISH TAX PAYER

Jellicoe

n97 mini wrote: »

That's because they answer the phone!

Not the ones I rang today . . .

woodoo

Lumbo wrote: »

I worked in Retail for 15 years for 3 different companies which all have unions operating in them. From my personal experiences your comment is nonsense. Any major changes in operations in these Private Sector companies were negotiated with unions and if there was difference of opinion that may lead to industrial unrest an incentive was offered by management, it might have been an increase in the rate of pay, better overtime, staff discounts etc. Throw out whatever regurgitated lines you want, have a read of some Labour Court decisions and see what Private Sector employers offer employees to implement change. You might learn something about the real world instead of ranting away in your own personal parallel universe.

That is absolutely true. People need to open their eyes to the reality of work places in Ireland and both sides have their lazy and awkward staff.

n97 mini

Jellicoe wrote: »

LOL no, we've just transferred billions THEIR PRIVATE debts into PUBLIC bonds, that MUST be REPAID AT GREAT COST, PLUS INTREST, BY THE TAX PAYER

The half of my post you didn't quote explained that some of this is likely to be de-leveraged.

You do know that a lot of the bank debt is also from ordinary members of the public not able to pay back what they borrowed?

n97 mini

Jellicoe wrote: »

Not the ones I rang today . . .

You should be thankful as they didn't have the opportunity to be rude to you!

woodoo

Jellicoe wrote: »

LOL no, we've just transferred billions of THEIR PRIVATE SECTOR, PRIVATE debts into PUBLIC bonds, that MUST be REPAID AT GREAT COST, PLUS INTREST, BY THE ORDINARY IRISH TAX PAYER

I shudder when i see people trying to stifle debate on the banks or trying to browbeat people into not discussing it.

Jellicoe

n97 mini wrote: »

You should be thankful as they didn't have the opportunity to be rude to you!

Their loss, instead I got it cheaper, with better quality, without any of the usual Irish private sector ****e from a UK online company. Apparently, my public sector wages are good enough for them

kippy

Jellicoe wrote: »

Their loss, instead I got it cheaper, with better quality, without any of the usual Irish private sector ****e from a UK online company. Apparently, my public sector wages are good enough for them

I'm not sure what exactly you hope to achieve with a post like that.

Vizzy

murphaph wrote: »

My mother works in a council office and knows loads of them. She tells me of people actually coming in early and staying late (but doing no work) , just to clock up extra holidays. It's unreal. These people work in planning (my mother sits near them) and have almost nothing to do as the construction sector has collapsed.

Does your mother do any work while she is there or is she complicit in the scam ?

ncdadam

n97 mini wrote: »

The half of my post you didn't quote explained that some of this is likely to be de-leveraged.

You do know that a lot of the bank debt is also from ordinary members of the public not able to pay back what they borrowed?

Source for this please?

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Where I worked there was no requirement for staff to stay beyond 4:30pm so the public office closed at 4:15pm (still does, I just checked the website).

can you post a link please.

The Bishop Basher

murphaph wrote: »

My mother works in a council office and knows loads of them. She tells me of people actually coming in early and staying late (but doing no work) , just to clock up extra holidays. It's unreal. These people work in planning (my mother sits near them) and have almost nothing to do as the construction sector has collapsed.

I wondered what all those staff in the planning departments were doing now that the work has dried up. It's a no brainier in the private sector. You cut staff and costs to match demand. There have been zero redundancies in our planning dept so what are they all doing ?

Lumbo

Swanner wrote: »

I wondered what all those staff in the planning departments were doing now that the work has dried up. It's a no brainier in the private sector. You cut staff and costs to match demand. There have been zero redundancies in our planning dept so what are they all doing ?

You do understand that construction is only one part of a Planning Departments function. Maybe you should learn about the place you say you work in before asking such questions.

The Bishop Basher

Lumbo wrote: »

Swanner wrote: »

I wondered what all those staff in the planning departments were doing now that the work has dried up. It's a no brainier in the private sector. You cut staff and costs to match demand. There have been zero redundancies in our planning dept so what are they all doing ?

You do understand that construction is only one part of a Planning Departments function. Maybe you should learn about the place you say you work in before asking such questions.

Your making an assumption there but it's irrelevant nonetheless. A significant chunk of their work is gone yet they still have the same number of staff. I understand they have many other functions in relation to county planning but it doesn't negate my point.

And where do I say I work there ? I'm very thankful that I work in the private sector as I enjoy learning, challenge and enterprise. I enjoy meritocracy where the harder I work and deliver results, the more I earn. A concept completely alien to the public sector.