Croke Park Agreement beyond 2014

kippy

Swanner wrote: »

I'm very thankful that I work in the private sector as I enjoy learning, challenge and enterprise. I enjoy meritocracy where the harder I work and deliver results, the more I earn. A concept completely alien to the public sector.

While the final part of this is obviously a rightful dig at the lack of:
Performance based pay/Accountability in the public sector, the first part is mirrored in many jobs in the sector.

The Bishop Basher

It's also a dig at incremental payments.

And are you saying that learning, challenge and enterprise exist in the PS because the archaic policies and work practices they so aggressively protect and retain would suggest otherwise. eg An Post, HSE, CC's, etc etc etc.

There are some exceptions such as the revenue but they are few and far between.

OMD

ardmacha wrote: »

[

The report includes the pension levy and the actual pay cut in 2010, but does the 42% calculation include this? Perhaps you would be kind enough to show evidence of this, as all of their graphs end in 2008 and the pension levy is essentially mentioned in an appendix.

You cannot use pension levy when calculating difference in pay unless you also include the costs of an equivalent private sector pension from the private worker.

cursai

Hurray for the keeping of CPA. Tis a great coup. Now we can sit and just get annoyed at all the begrudgers without having to fear they may get their hateful and misguided wishes.

kippy

Swanner wrote: »

It's also a dig at incremental payments.

And are you saying that learning, challenge and enterprise exist in the PS because the archaic policies and work practices they retain would suggest otherwise. eg An Post, HSE, CC's, etc etc etc.

There are some exceptions such as the revenue but they are few and far between.

And a fair one (dig) that I would agree with.

There's plenty learning opportunities and challeneges in the sector, maybe not so much enterprise.

I'd very much like things to change in the sector. The work practices are made far worse by the sheer level of management (manager who cannot manage) grades to be honest.
Sorting out the ratio of chiefs to Indians would improve things in the public sector in a multiple of ways.

The Bishop Basher

kippy wrote: »

And a fair one (dig) that I would agree with.

There's plenty learning opportunities and challeneges in the sector, maybe not so much enterprise.

I'd very much like things to change in the sector. The work practices are made far worse by the sheer level of management (manager who cannot manage) grades to be honest.
Sorting out the ratio of chiefs to Indians would improve things in the public sector in a multiple of ways.

Agreed. Most noticably in terms of cost.

cursai

kippy wrote: »

And a fair one (dig) that I would agree with.

There's plenty learning opportunities and challeneges in the sector, maybe not so much enterprise.

I'd very much like things to change in the sector. The work practices are made far worse by the sheer level of management (manager who cannot manage) grades to be honest.
Sorting out the ratio of chiefs to Indians would improve things in the public sector in a multiple of ways.

Totally agree. How many superintendent grades could be abolished to be replaced inspectors in the Gardai who can and do the exact same task. FOR EXAMPLE.

kippy

Swanner wrote: »

Agreed. Most noticably in terms of cost.

Indeed, direct and indirect costs. But there would also be a number of other improvements, most notably in service times towards the public and decision making all over the place.
There's no point having managers manage if they cannot have any impact on the pay and performance of their staff.

n97 mini

kceire wrote: »

can you post a link please.

What do you want to prove?

Farmer Pudsey

Below is a link to a article in the Irish examiner that shows the difference between public and private sector pay. I also pasted the article it shows the marked difference in private sector pay and the fact that it is still falling while public sector pay contrary to what we hear is rising to widen the gap.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archive...ir-205760.html

Public v private sector - Growing pay gap is unfair
Thursday, August 30, 2012

According to figures just published by the Central Statistics Office, the disparity between wages in the public and private sectors is actually growing.

Over the past four years weekly private sector earnings have fallen by 0.5%, whereas those in the public sector have increased by 2.8%.

This is clearly unbalanced and grossly unfair. The public service was already earning considerably more than private sector workers.

Average private sector earnings for the first three months of 2012 was €611.66 a week, which was down 1.9% on the previous three months. This compares with €919.99 in the public service, which was up slightly on the previous three months.

The number of public sector workers has dropped by almost 26,000 in the last year, but this is small compared to job losses in the private sector. There is no comparison in the degree of job security in the two sectors. Economic cutbacks have enormous implications for earnings in the private sector, while workers in the public service are receiving incremental pay increases. Talk about sharing the burden equally seems to be so much empty blather.

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

What do you want to prove?

just wondering what public office closes at 4.15 to the public......

cursai

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Below is a link to a article in the Irish examiner that shows the difference between public and private sector pay. I also pasted the article it shows the marked difference in private sector pay and the fact that it is still falling while public sector pay contrary to what we hear is rising to widen the gap.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archive...ir-205760.html

Public v private sector - Growing pay gap is unfair
Thursday, August 30, 2012

According to figures just published by the Central Statistics Office, the disparity between wages in the public and private sectors is actually growing.

Over the past four years weekly private sector earnings have fallen by 0.5%, whereas those in the public sector have increased by 2.8%.

This is clearly unbalanced and grossly unfair. The public service was already earning considerably more than private sector workers.

Average private sector earnings for the first three months of 2012 was €611.66 a week, which was down 1.9% on the previous three months. This compares with €919.99 in the public service, which was up slightly on the previous three months.

The number of public sector workers has dropped by almost 26,000 in the last year, but this is small compared to job losses in the private sector. There is no comparison in the degree of job security in the two sectors. Economic cutbacks have enormous implications for earnings in the private sector, while workers in the public service are receiving incremental pay increases. Talk about sharing the burden equally seems to be so much empty blather.

AVERAGE AVERAGE AVERAGE AVERAGE. THIS IS AVERAGE PAY NOT ACTUAL. EVERY PUBLIC SERVANT ON THIS SITE HAS AGREED WITH THE PROBLEM WITH HIGHER PUBLIC SERVANTS. But this is average pay heightened by huge figure from few PS. God.....are Peope so fickle. Not attacking you personally but this whole perception has to change.....but it won't. its just one of those things.

ardmacha

I also pasted the article it shows the marked difference in private sector pay and the fact that it is still falling while public sector pay contrary to what we hear is rising to widen the gap.

The usual spinning and selective use of statistics here. Firstly hourly pay rate data from 5 years is emphasised (and misleadingly presented as if current), although the gap in weekly earnings was less. Then recent data on earnings is highlighted, with the claim that the pay gap is growing when the hourly data shows differently, the difference being reduced hours worked in the private sector.

The saddest thing is the lack of principle in the media and people on this board spinning this. God knows there is enough real waste to write about that they shouldn't have to make it up!

• General pay levels are not declining in 2012
• The private sector is having to pay more tax (bearing the burden!)
• The public sector is having to pay exactly the same taxes

Japer

Swanner wrote: »

Called the passport office this morning as I need a passport urgently and I had some questions about the process. There was an automated message stating that they had closed the lines due to the volume of calls. This would never happen in the private sector. We can't afford to stop answering calls just because we're busy. We find innovative and creative ways to deal with the issue. The simple reality is that if we don't respond to our customers they go elsewhere. Not so for the public sector. It's essentially a monopoly.

Tried calling back at 4:35. Got a message telling me the office is now closed. Once again, this would never happen in the private sector. We close when our customers stop calling. Reason being, if we don't respond, they go elsewhere. Again, obviously not so for the public sector.

I'm pretty sure had I tried at lunch time I would have got that insane message that the office is now closed for lunch from 12:30 to 2pm. There's not a private company in the country that shuts its doors for an hour an a half at lunchtime. They can't afford to.

You may have met some dossers in the private sector in the past but there's not many now. it's a different world.

The difference is not so much the people but the culture. Public sector needs a serious wake up call but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Life is just too comfortable.

If a private company was run the same way, it would be bankrupt within weeks.

Well said. Its a pity the people running the country are so overpaid and so inefficoent, but then again what else would you expect when they have a state-protected monopoly ?

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Since this thread once again has descended into a "bash the public sector" fest, I think we will just end things here.

I'll also add that if people insist on dragging the same battles into multiple threads, prepare to get infracted for trolling or soapboxing: not everything having to do with wages or the recession is down to public sector workers being a) overpaid, b) lazy, or c) whatever is the complaint de jour.