Croke Park Agreement beyond 2014

n97 mini

ardmacha wrote: »

And the need for a property tax, lower tax credits, water charges .....

Go back to year 2000 levels of everything. Much less expenditure on SW and PS, slightly higher personal taxes, and there'd be no need for property or water taxes, just like there wasn't then.

The CPA has us effectively hamstrung with expenditure on PS and cutting SW is a political hot potato. Hard to see how it's all going to end.

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

i get 18.5% Higher than the UK figure

And

Depending on what you take as the denominator you either get a figure of 79% (21% difference) or 127% (so a 27% difference).

Tea drinker

Gov built the taxation and expenditure levels based on loans in the property bubble, now those loans have to be replaced with "sovereign loans as the revenue stream isn't there. We basically were running ireland based on future loans running 25 years into the future... that's some going. They massively increased staffing levels, were not sufficiently concerned with rationalising the health service (HSE vs Heath boards) and in fact are still not. The total lack of industrial action for about 20 years is probably a bad sign.

ardmacha wrote: »

Both expenditure and taxation need to be patterns that are stable in the long term, avoiding short term stunts.

Especially gov staffing levels, as it's so hard for them to deal with overstaffing. It almost looks there is no will or idea how to reduce the staffing level without massive golden parachutes negating the benefit. Many have been re-hired again costing even more emoney. It's hard to see a way out tbh, and it could be absent some reform total collapse is the default answer everyone is moving towards. Even CPA had clauses for renogotiation in unforseen econmonic circumstances - SFA done on the back of that as well. People forget though that we were an agricultural backwater just 50 years ago, the mindset to confront and manage problems isn't really there, IMHO.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If I was a CS below the age of 40 I would want all this sorted as it will come back to haunt these workers as the present system is unsustainable.

Worrying that the blinkers are STILL on while the ship move towards the bergs, we can all see the end result. It's like when that steam roller goes over the guy in Austin Powers. Turning earlier gets more benefit, turning at the end will be more painful.

Head The Wall

kceire wrote: »

i get 18.5% Higher than the UK figure

And based on the cost of living between the 2 totally different countries then its not a big gap at all, and justified in my opinion.

Edit :

Considering the need to constantly ignore facts, the real difference is less.
UK child benefit rate is £20.30 per week.

UK : 20.30 x 52 = £1055.60 stg
IRL : 140 x 12 = €1680

Exchange rate puts that at €1346.00
So, €1,346 Vs €1,680

That’s a real difference of 18.5% when compared to the UK rates.

Look maths is not your strong point, the difference is divided by the lower figure because that is what the reference is against i.e. how much more is received here as opposed to the UK.

357 / 1323 * 100 = 26.98%

murphaph

donalg1 wrote: »

Dont the CS workers have to travel to work and pay for childcare too, many of these on less than €30k per annum, yes cuts are needed provided they are done the right way, same way as new taxes need to be introduced. Taxes that arent always transaction based which will help provide a stable base for the future, taxes that encompass everyone and taxes that are fair and equitable obviously.

So? On average if someone in the PS is on 30k, their counterpart (without the job security) in the private sector will be on less, perhaps substantially less depending on the job. 30k for a bit of admin in some council is overpaid in the current climate (and always was tbh).

I'm happy that property taxation has been introduced for the good of the country (rates should never have been abolished) despite being a property owner and being liable. I want to see the government get its spending under control in a managed way though (the current attrition based "system" is a bad joke that will harm Ireland in the future as the "wrong" people leave the PS and the dregs remain in it)

murphaph

ardmacha wrote: »

And the need for a property tax, lower tax credits, water charges .....

All three are here or on the way!!! What's happening in the PS wrt reducing costs? Random attrition. Rubbish an detremental to the country long term.

ardmacha wrote: »

But it goes back to my earlier point, we cannot have services such as those operated by nations with 47% of GNP collected as revenue from revenue of 37% of GNP.

We have no military of note, something which costs other western nations a large proportion of their GNP. You have to remove that from the 47% if it's to be anyway useful as a comparison.

Anyway, if we can't afford the services then we shouldn't be borrowing for them.

Gumbo

sarumite wrote: »

It should be noted that the Euro is down around 15% from its pre-crisis average against the sterling. While this will affect the conversion rate, it usually doesn't directly translate into spending power.

+1
Hence why these UK comparisons are useless when using direct figures against each other.

Head The Wall wrote: »

Look maths is not your strong point, the difference is divided by the lower figure because that is what the reference is against i.e. how much more is received here as opposed to the UK.

357 / 1323 * 100 = 26.98%

334 / 1680 * 100 = 19.88%
They get 19.88% less than us, not a big difference at all, considering the higher cost of living here.

donalg1

murphaph wrote: »

So? On average if someone in the PS is on 30k, their counterpart (without the job security) in the private sector will be on less, perhaps substantially less depending on the job. 30k for a bit of admin in some council is overpaid in the current climate (and always was tbh).

I'm happy that property taxation has been introduced for the good of the country (rates should never have been abolished) despite being a property owner and being liable. I want to see the government get its spending under control in a managed way though (the current attrition based "system" is a bad joke that will harm Ireland in the future as the "wrong" people leave the PS and the dregs remain in it)

I wasnt comparing the average wages of someone in the PS with their private sector counterpart, you were making the example that someone in the private sector has to pay for child care and travel to work. I was simply pointing out the fact that those in the public sector have these expenses too.

Farmer Pudsey

donalg1 wrote: »

Dont the CS workers have to travel to work and pay for childcare too, many of these on less than €30k per annum, yes cuts are needed provided they are done the right way, same way as new taxes need to be introduced. Taxes that arent always transaction based which will help provide a stable base for the future, taxes that encompass everyone and taxes that are fair and equitable obviously.

Yes I agree but the issue is not with lower paid CS.

Recently I read an article in the Sunday Times I think.

In GB the average private sector wage is anout 550 sterling a week but the average PS is 650 sterling

In Ireland the averageprivate sector worker is earning about 650 euro's near enough the GB average however the average PS is earning 950 euro's.

The disservice that unions do to lower paid PS is abysmal what is happening in this country is we are starting to have a two tier society where PS are paid nearly 50% more than ordinary workers. But it is not the lower paid PS that benifits byt rather those in the upper echlons.

On top of that there is the yimebomb of PS pensions which are unsustainable. The max pension any PS should be entitled to is 50K and from earning of 60K and up your pension should start to be tiered.

The pension that some CS retire on are obsene and are socially devisive

Gumbo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The max pension any PS should be entitled to is 50K and from earning of 60K and up your pension should start to be tiered.

totally agree with this, this would mean a working income of 100k, which is mega!
i will never have to worry about hitting this pension threshold so it doesnt affect me, but i said it before and i'll say it again, between the pension contributions, spouse and childrens contributions, and pension levy, i would rarther look after my own pension and rid the state of any pension burdon tbh.

everybody gets 12k, we are all even at that, but if you want more save more etc etc

Blured

kceire wrote: »

+1
Hence why these UK comparisons are useless when using direct figures against each other.



334 / 1680 * 100 = 19.88%
They get 19.88% less than us, not a big difference at all, considering the higher cost of living here.

You need to divide the difference by what they get paid to come up with the % difference between the two numbers. So its 334/1346 = 24.8%

Gumbo

Blured wrote: »

You need to divide the difference by what they get paid to come up with the % difference between the two numbers. So its 334/1346 = 24.8%

yeah i understand that.
Im trying to show that depending on what figure you use, different % arise, even using the same 3 figures (IRL 1680 - Diff 334 - UK 1346)

Im using IRL figures as the base, as thats where we are : In IRL we get 1680 per year, the UK, 1346, an irish person would be down 19.88% in the UK.
334/1680*100 = 19.88%

Farmer Pudsey

kceire wrote: »

+1

334 / 1680 * 100 = 19.88%
They get 19.88% less than us, not a big difference at all, considering the higher cost of living here.

Blured wrote: »

You need to divide the difference by what they get paid to come up with the % difference between the two numbers. So its 334/1346 = 24.8%

But it depends on which number you use ie we GB get paid a CA of 19.88% less than the Irish rate or Irish parents recieve a CA that is 24.8% higher that the British rate.

There are lies, damm lies and then there are stastics

murphaph

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The disservice that unions do to lower paid PS is abysmal what is happening in this country is we are starting to have a two tier society where PS are paid nearly 50% more than ordinary workers. But it is not the lower paid PS that benifits byt rather those in the upper echlons.

tbh I'd say it's the other way around. If you have many tens of thousands of "low paid" PS admin staff on 30k when the average in the private sector for the same work is say 20k, then you have a 50% premium for the public sector being repeated thousands of times. The overpayment at the top end won't have as much of an impact on the total budget as there are simply fewer people on "top money".

the_syco

femur61 wrote: »

Just heard on radio1 that we borrow 55million/day to fund public services

I'm assuming this includes prisons and housing prisoners?

Farmer Pudsey

murphaph wrote: »

tbh I'd say it's the other way around. If you have many tens of thousands of "low paid" PS admin staff on 30k when the average in the private sector for the same work is say 20k, then you have a 50% premium for the public sector being repeated thousands of times. The overpayment at the top end won't have as much of an impact on the total budget as there are simply fewer people on "top money".

This is the misconception there are not that may PS low paid clerical staff. The number at the top is huge. As well as that in the intrest of fairness all cuts should start from the top down. Also bigger wage cut shou be at top level as dueto higher tax rates it effects them less. Also a CS manager earning 150K is the equivlent of 5 low paid admin staff. he might have 3-4 assistants/next layer managers reporting to him on over 100k that the equivlent of 10-12 more low paid staff. A Staff officer in the public service a low level manager is on around 50K. Most back office staff in the PS are above clerical officer grade.

You are also looking at semi-professionals such as survyors, Engineers in the council, solicitors, vets the list is endless. It is the same in the HSE.
http://www.thejournal.ie/top-irish-civil-servants-paid-more-than-eu-counterparts-277889-Nov2011/

http://www.irishelection.com/2008/10/civil-service-performance-scheme-pay-rises-for-all/

these are the first two urls that appear when you put '' average wage irish Civil servants'' into a google serch. Some people should use it more often. Also the average wage in the PS is around 950 euro's approx 48K that is at least 25K above the lowest paid CS so there must be a lot earning above 50K

woodoo

murphaph wrote: »

tbh I'd say it's the other way around. If you have many tens of thousands of "low paid" PS admin staff on 30k when the average in the private sector for the same work is say 20k, then you have a 50% premium for the public sector being repeated thousands of times. The overpayment at the top end won't have as much of an impact on the total budget as there are simply fewer people on "top money".

Not that i am agreeing with your figures but could you really see the government gave a 33% paycut to those people and a 10 percent paycut to the top guys. As the old saying goes we are where we are. How would that level of adjustment realistically be achieved.

Head The Wall

kceire wrote: »

+1

334 / 1680 * 100 = 19.88%
They get 19.88% less than us, not a big difference at all, considering the higher cost of living here.

kceire wrote: »

yeah i understand that.
Im trying to show that depending on what figure you use, different % arise, even using the same 3 figures (IRL 1680 - Diff 334 - UK 1346)

Im using IRL figures as the base, as thats where we are : In IRL we get 1680 per year, the UK, 1346, an irish person would be down 19.88% in the UK.
334/1680*100 = 19.88%

No, it's obvious that you don't understand it. People in Ireland get 27% more than their Uk counterparts and that is what has been discussed since the start but you're not willing to admit to admit you're wrong. Here's your own post because you seem unable to process simple figures even when it has been pointed out to you by numerous posters

kceire wrote: »

UK : 20 x 52 = 1040 stg
IRL 140 x 12 = 1680 €

Exchange rate puts it 1323€ V 1680€
So we are not that fr ahead I them considering increased cost of living in IRL.

Farmer Pudsey

Head The Wall wrote: »

No, it's obvious that you don't understand it. People in Ireland get 27% more than their Uk counterparts and that is what has been discussed since the start but you're not willing to admit to admit you're wrong. Here's your own post because you seem unable to process simple figures even when it has been pointed out to you by numerous posters

This is splitting hairs it depends on what way you interpet the results. However what a lot of people do not relise is that in GB you get a tax credit for children I am not sure if it is only paid in cases of you needing childcare howeve this is somthing we do not have it ireland and it would make up the difference.

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

No, it's obvious that you don't understand it. People in Ireland get 27% more than their Uk counterparts and that is what has been discussed since the start but you're not willing to admit to admit you're wrong. Here's your own post because you seem unable to process simple figures even when it has been pointed out to you by numerous posters

You are so red faced from ranting that you can't see that both sets of figures are correct. They get 19.88% less than us, fact. Many posters have not stated that I am wrong, many have agreed that depending on what figure you base it on, both % figures are correct, fact.

We get 1680, they get 1346, 19.88% less. Sure your in London, why dont you drop into a HM revenue office tomorrow and confirm for yourself. Thanks very much.

Good loser

kceire wrote: »

You are so red faced from ranting that you can't see that both sets of figures are correct. They get 19.88% less than us, fact. Many posters have not stated that I am wrong, many have agreed that depending on what figure you base it on, both % figures are correct, fact.

We get 1680, they get 1346, 19.88% less. Sure your in London, why dont you drop into a HM revenue office tomorrow and confirm for yourself. Thanks very much.

You're wrong kceire - as usual - your maths is as flawed as your logic.

Farmer Pudsey

Good loser wrote: »

You're wrong kceire - as usual - your maths is as flawed as your logic.

Good loser it depends on wheather you use the GB or Irish figure as your reference figure, so both answers are correct so give up on I am right and you are wrong and kceire the same. I am getin a headache from the two of you.

Gumbo

Good loser wrote: »

You're wrong kceire - as usual - your maths is as flawed as your logic.

The UK get 19.88% less Childrens Benefit then us, is that incorrect?
If you get a minute there after breakfast, whip out a calculator or do it on the back of a post it note, either way, €1680 minus 19.88% = UK Child Benfit figure, Fact.

Good Loser, anything but.............

femur61

Child Benefit - Ireland £110 / month . UK £80/month and thats todays exchange rate.

Why are we focusing so much on one area. Anyway these arguements are not going to change anything just a few people arguing amonst themselves. People need to write to TDs (pointless) the papers, anyone in the media.

Maybe these arguements are purely academic but I for one am fed up with the whole situation. There is a protected elitist section out there who feel they deserve more and yes I appreciate all the necessary services that are provided, but the reality is we can't afford to fund them.

There is one simple choice - cut wages or cut servieces.

Gumbo

femur61 wrote: »

Child Benefit - Ireland £110 / month . UK £80/month and thats todays exchange rate.

not to be pedantic, but the UK Child Benefit is £87.97 per month. It lowers the % difference between IRL/UK

femur61 wrote: »

Why are we focusing so much on one area. Anyway these arguements are not going to change anything just a few people arguing amonst themselves.

+19.88

Head The Wall

kceire wrote: »

You are so red faced from ranting that you can't see that both sets of figures are correct. They get 19.88% less than us, fact. Many posters have not stated that I am wrong, many have agreed that depending on what figure you base it on, both % figures are correct, fact.

We get 1680, they get 1346, 19.88% less. Sure your in London, why dont you drop into a HM revenue office tomorrow and confirm for yourself. Thanks very much.

So you have the ability to see down the internet and look at peoples faces, your skills are really wasted in the PS.


You also seem to have a real issue with the fact that I had the ability to leave the country and pay taxes elsewhere. Is it because you have a mortgage and are tied there and feel some resentment, well it sounds like it to me. If you are going to be making personal references to my situation then you can expect some back. Keep paying your overpriced mortgage like a good lad.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Good loser it depends on wheather you use the GB or Irish figure as your reference figure, so both answers are correct so give up on I am right and you are wrong and kceire the same. I am getin a headache from the two of you.

The point here is Kceire claimed that Irish don't receive much more than the UK originally, when I pointed out that it was 27% more then he changed his mind and claimed that Ireland receives 20% less. He is too ignorant or pig headed now to back down. I have not claimed at all that the 20% figure is incorrect.

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

So you have the ability to see down the internet and look at peoples faces, your skills are really wasted in the PS.

Yes, i agree, its a gift.

Head The Wall wrote: »

You also seem to have a real issue with the fact that I had the ability to leave the country and pay taxes elsewhere.

No issue at all, ive been there done that, and quite enjoyed the experience. My issue is, aslong as you dont pay taxes in IRL, then you get no say, end of. Thats my personal opinion.

Head The Wall wrote: »

Is it because you have a mortgage and are tied there and feel some resentment, well it sounds like it to me. If you are going to be making personal references to my situation then you can expect some back. Keep paying your overpriced mortgage like a good lad.

As above, no resentment at all, im a homebird, i get dizzy going to Ashbourne and Dinsany overnight, i wouldnt move from my locality ever again, im happy here just because you couldnt get a job in IRL and had to take a job in the UK doent or will never affect me, you are a PC screen to me, just as i am to you, I could be out the back of my dads butchers shop at the moment, waiting on the mincer to power up for all you know

Head The Wall wrote: »

The point here is Kceire claimed that Irish don't receive much more than the UK originally, when I pointed out that it was 27% more then he changed his mind and claimed that Ireland receives 20% less.

Yes the difference is 19.88%, the facts show this, and no amout of you thanking people that agree with your side will change that. Thank the posts that confirm the 2 figures are correct why dont ya.

IRL get 1680, UK get 1346, 19.88% lower. Fact.

Head The Wall wrote: »

He is too ignorant or pig headed now to back down. I have not claimed at all that the 20% figure is incorrect.

youve gone beyond personal attcks here now and are being an abusive bully again......

Plus, please read my posts before replying, i have stated in many posts that both figures are correct depending on which way you want to put forward the argument in all my previous posts, there ya go lad, have a look

Head The Wall

You didn't do your sums right in the first place and then changed your claim to match what you were saying. You won't admit it even when I showed you your incorrect post. That is being ignorant and stubborn, it's not my fault if you are too petulant.

By the way, this board is not restricted to tax payers so if you don't like we have to say then don't use the board. It's as simple as that.

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

You didn't do your sums right in the first place and then changed your claim to match what you were saying. You won't admit it even when I showed you your incorrect post. That is being ignorant and stubborn, it's not my fault if you are too petulant.

What i was saying has remained the same throughout, sometime words dont appear the way to want them on a forum, i thought you would of been aware of that of all people I made a mistake in the figures in my first post, i blame the phone typing tbh but hey, thats neither relevant now.

The figures still remain, they are both correct depending on who your audience is or what your personal agenda is.

Head The Wall wrote: »

By the way, this board is not restricted to tax payers so if you don't like we have to say then don't use the board. It's as simple as that.

I never said anything about the board
but the same goes for you, if you dont like what we say, dont use it, its as simple as that.

Head The Wall

No your post started that Ireland didn't receive much "MORE" than the UK, you then changed your tune to UK receives "LESS" than Ireland. That's not a phone typing issue and you just come across as a pleb trying to claim otherwise.

It's also you that keeps bringing up the fact that I live in the UK and shouldn't have a say in things. It's you that has an issue with it and not me, I'll still be heading home to vote whenever one happens, so all your posturing and complaining achieves nothing

creedp

Head The Wall wrote: »

No your post started that Ireland didn't receive much "MORE" than the UK, you then changed your tune to UK receives "LESS" than Ireland. That's not a phone typing issue and you just come across as a pleb trying to claim otherwise.

It's also you that keeps bringing up the fact that I live in the UK and shouldn't have a say in things. It's you that has an issue with it and not me, I'll still be heading home to vote whenever one happens, so all your posturing and complaining achieves nothing

Keep it going lads .. its really adding to the discussion ..

Zulu

creedp wrote: »

Keep it going lads .. its really adding to the discussion ..

+1, no one actually give a fuck which one of you is right or wrong.

Your dogged perusal of who's actually wrong is as annoying as a wasp in your bedroom on a hungover morning.

Farmer Pudsey

Head The Wall wrote: »

So you have the ability to see down the internet and look at peoples faces, your skills are really wasted in the PS.


You also seem to have a real issue with the fact that I had the ability to leave the country and pay taxes elsewhere. Is it because you have a mortgage and are tied there and feel some resentment, well it sounds like it to me. If you are going to be making personal references to my situation then you can expect some back. Keep paying your overpriced mortgage like a good lad.






The point here is Kceire claimed that Irish don't receive much more than the UK originally, when I pointed out that it was 27% more then he changed his mind and claimed that Ireland receives 20% less. He is too ignorant or pig headed now to back down. I have not claimed at all that the 20% figure is incorrect.

Head the Ball In england working family's also recieve a tax credit for childern and towards child minding costs it more than make's uo the difference between CA in the two countries.

If you and keire want to discuss CA please use this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056726174&page=5

twinytwo

They might also try giving promotions to the person that deserves the job rather than the person who has been there the longest

Gumbo

Head The Wall wrote: »

No your post started that Ireland didn't receive much "MORE" than the UK, you then changed your tune to UK receives "LESS" than Ireland. That's not a phone typing issue and you just come across as a pleb trying to claim otherwise.

And the fact remains, that the UK only receive €6.42 less than us per week in child Benefit. Plus as posted by other posters, they also get in addition a tax allowance which more than makes up for the difference, probably means they get more than IRL.

Anyway, my last post in CB in this thread as its wayyyy OT at this stage.

Head The Wall wrote: »

It's also you that keeps bringing up the fact that I live in the UK and shouldn't have a say in things.

I brought it up once, end of.

Head The Wall wrote: »

That's not a phone typing issue and you just come across as a pleb trying to claim otherwise.

Good lad, if in doubt, resort to slagging off :rolleyes:

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

No issue at all, ive been there done that, and quite enjoyed the experience. My issue is, aslong as you dont pay taxes in IRL, then you get no say, end of. Thats my personal opinion.

Personally I completely disagree with this and if it were ever to become a boards.ie policy I would leave. I think it would be a little self-righteous of someone with a government guaranteed job to criticise someone who didn't have the same guarantee and thus had to leave the country to find work showing interest and providing an opinion with regards their homeland. I know from my experience of living abroad I was more likely to read the Irish times website than the local equivalent. I seen nothing wrong, and furthermore would see it as normal, that an Irish person would express an opinion on the economy, especially if the reason they left the country was directly related to the economy.

Gumbo

sarumite wrote: »

Personally I completely disagree with this and if it were ever to become a boards.ie policy I would leave. I think it would be a little self-righteous of someone with a government guaranteed job to criticise someone who didn't have the same guarantee and thus had to leave the country to find work showing interest and providing an opinion with regards their homeland. I know from my experience of living abroad I was more likely to read the Irish times website than the local equivalent. I seen nothing wrong, and furthermore would see it as normal, that an Irish person would express an opinion on the economy, especially if the reason they left the country was directly related to the economy.

I can see where your coming from, maybe i sound a bit harsh in my post. When i was abroad, yes i had opinions on the homeland, but i couldnt do anything about it or if im honest, didnt want to either.

Also i agree about the boards.ie policy thing, i wouldnt want it to go that way either, im thinking more along the lines of for example, some Irish celeb/socialite/similar living and paying taxes abroad, spouting out about how we need to pull together etc etc

Zulu

If you don't contribute to the society, why should you have a say?

So you don't pay taxes & you can vote in a radical party who want to introduce an air tax??? Madness.
You don't live in Ireland, but you can vote in a fundamentalist, backward, anti-gay, anti-sex draconian party??? Madness.

You want to eat all your cake, and have it??? Madness.

If you aren't paying tax, you shouldn't get a vote. ...and I'd almost consider extending that to nationals who don't pay tax - only it could lead to more votes for those who pay more, which I couldn't condone. Perhaps for those found guild of tax fraud....

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

I can see where your coming from, maybe i sound a bit harsh in my post. When i was abroad, yes i had opinions on the homeland, but i couldnt do anything about it or if im honest, didnt want to either.

Also i agree about the boards.ie policy thing, i wouldnt want it to go that way either, im thinking more along the lines of for example, some Irish celeb/socialite/similar living and paying taxes abroad, spouting out about how we need to pull together etc etc

No disrespect Kceire, but for the time being you know that you will not be put in a position where you are forced to leave the country as you cannot be made redundant. That was through no effort of your own, but through sheer luck that you were employed by an organisation that had a strong union negotiating an agreement with a weak government. It does seem a bit rich that you criticise (and this isn't the first time either) others who were not as fortunate as yourself for leaving the country but continuing to post their opinion on boards.ie

Gumbo

sarumite wrote: »

No disrespect Kceire, but for the time being you know that you will not be put in a position where you are forced to leave the country as you cannot be made redundant.

You never know, when my contract is up next year, i may have to
Dont believe in unions, thats why i never joined one tbh.

sarumite wrote: »

It does seem a bit rich that you criticise (and this isn't the first time either) others who were not as fortunate as yourself for leaving the country but continuing to post their opinion on boards.ie

I have never criticised any poster for leaving the country to work.
I do however believe that if you dont pay your taxes here, you shout get no say in policital areas, for example votes etc and that goes for friends, family, not only virtual world users.

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

You never know, when my contract is up next year, i may have to
Dont believe in unions, thats why i never joined one tbh.



I have never criticised any poster for leaving the country to work.
I do however believe that if you dont pay your taxes here, you shout get no say in policital areas, for example votes etc and that goes for friends, family, not only virtual world users.

I apologise, I thought you were full time PS.

I guess I will have to agree to disagree. For if I were to agree with you I would be a hyprocrite as I post the odd time in the US politics forum.

Idbatterim

I have never criticised any poster for leaving the country to work.
I do however believe that if you dont pay your taxes here, you shout get no say in policital areas, for example votes etc and that goes for friends, family, not only virtual world users.

you dont have to look abroad to find thousands of Irish that dont pay taxes... Actually id go further than this, at least those that couldnt find work here went abroad and arent a drain on the system and are saving the tax payer a fortune...

murphaph

donalg1 wrote: »

I wasnt comparing the average wages of someone in the PS with their private sector counterpart, you were making the example that someone in the private sector has to pay for child care and travel to work. I was simply pointing out the fact that those in the public sector have these expenses too.

I never mentioned these costs. Must be confusing me with someone else but anyway, Donald Trump has childcare costs-he's better able to afford them than a private sector admin worker on 20k, just as a public sector dmin worker on 30k is!

Head the wall banned for a week. kceire infracted. Posts deleted.
Don't post nonsense and pictures again, stay on topic, and stay civil or don't post. Thanks

Gumbo

bluewolf wrote: »

Head the wall banned for a week. kceire infracted. Posts deleted.
Don't post nonsense and pictures again, stay on topic, and stay civil or don't post. Thanks

I apolagise to the other users, i went way way OT.

doc_17

So Croke Park? It'll be very interesting to see if Fine Gael even attempt to negotiate a successor to it. Given that Labour will want certain things it might be too much for FG to put up with. And Labour will be looking over their left wing and they won't want to be cutting stuff. Interesting times ahead.

That stupid extra hour a week anyway that they put last in should be better thought out next time though! The way it's being handled isn't saving a bean in the education system.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

I never mentioned these costs. Must be confusing me with someone else but anyway, Donald Trump has childcare costs-he's better able to afford them than a private sector admin worker on 20k, just as a public sector dmin worker on 30k is!

Oh for petes sake what has Donald Trump got to do with anything here .. but I suppose it makes a change from the usual reference to Michael O'Leary getting child benefit and that is in some way justifies taking child benefit off all 'wealthy' people, which for many is an euphemism for public servants.

By the way speaking of 'wealthy people' getting public subventions, Michael O'Leary also gets €10's of thousands of farms grants each year to subvent his pedigree cattle hobby .. anyone crying over this?

galway2007

murphaph wrote: »

So? On average if someone in the PS is on 30k, their counterpart (without the job security) in the private sector will be on less, perhaps substantially less depending on the job. 30k for a bit of admin in some council is overpaid in the current climate (and always was tbh).

I'm happy that property taxation has been introduced for the good of the country (rates should never have been abolished) despite being a property owner and being liable. I want to see the government get its spending under control in a managed way though (the current attrition based "system" is a bad joke that will harm Ireland in the future as the "wrong" people leave the PS and the dregs remain in it)

But will people on the dole have to pay a property tax?

fliball123

doc_17 wrote: »

So Croke Park? It'll be very interesting to see if Fine Gael even attempt to negotiate a successor to it. Given that Labour will want certain things it might be too much for FG to put up with. And Labour will be looking over their left wing and they won't want to be cutting stuff. Interesting times ahead.

That stupid extra hour a week anyway that they put last in should be better thought out next time though! The way it's being handled isn't saving a bean in the education system.

I have a feeling that they might spring the Troika will not not allow x,y and z and they want a, b and c to be implemented. An interesting thread by the way...but to all ... Unless we cut social welfare, and PS pay and pensions and increase taxes..we are pussy footing around the problem...There has been 4 years of pussyfooting we need some gumption by this government and make some hard but correct decisions.

ParkRunner

fliball123 wrote: »

I have a feeling that they might spring the Troika will not not allow x,y and z and they want a, b and c to be implemented. An interesting thread by the way...but to all ... Unless we cut social welfare, and PS pay and pensions and increase taxes..we are pussy footing around the problem...There has been 4 years of pussyfooting we need some gumption by this government and make some hard but correct decisions.

You have a good point in that the government needs to make some hard but correct decisions. Nearly every year we are told that this year's budget is going to be the toughest one and that we will be over the worst of it then, but again FG&Labour have come out and said that this budget will be the toughest of their term in office, which is eroding consumer confidence no matter whether it is private or public sector.

It is within the public sector's interest to have a growing and confident private sector and it is in the private sector's interest to have a well functioning, competent, professional public sector. Ultimately everyone is going to suffer for the foreseeable future but if the nation worked together instead of bickering we could be facing a much brighter future a lot sooner!