Councils supporting marraige equality

Fenian Army

Over the past while Sinn Féin councilors are and will continue to table motions supporting same sex marriage at council meetings. As of now the motions have been passed in Maghrafelt Omagh, Down, Belfast, Cork and Moyle.

Unfortunately the usual suspects have opposed and abstained with some choice comments along the way;

Would have put this up earlier, but wanting to confirm that these comments were actually said. At the marriage equality debate in Magherafelt Council this week, Ulster Unionist Cllr. Jackie Crawford made this comment about gay people: '' It's a pity they have that disease and they can't help it. It's the same as being born with a disability.'' The DUP'S Paul Mc Lean reiterated that very DUP word of ''abomination.''

Will the leaders of both the UUP and DUP condemn these remarks?
I shan't hold my breath.

(SF LGBT Facebook page)

While councils have little hard power when it comes to things like this it is good to see communities supporting peoples rights, hopefully more and more will join in and call for marriage equality in Ireland.

Lyaiera

I for one am delighted that a bunch of murderers aren't 100% evil.

Stabshauptmann

Would you care to list which Sinn Féin councilors from Maghrafelt Omagh, Down, Belfast, Cork and Moyle are murderers, just so we're all on the same page?

Stabshauptmann

I'm not up to date on the ins and outs of same sex legislation in Ireland; what rights are currently afforded to same sex couples, and what additional rights are they missing in order to have "marraige equality".

baby and crumble

I have no idea what part of that comment by the Ulster Unionist council member is more offensive, calling gay a disease or disability a disease.

Also, can we play nice re: accusations of murder etc.

Fenian Army

baby and crumble wrote: »

I have no idea what part of that comment by the Ulster Unionist council member is more offensive, calling gay a disease or disability a disease.

Also, can we play nice re: accusations of murder etc.

Its a bit of a mad comment alright... must think its ok to discriminate against disabled people too?

foggy_lad

So the equality leglislation is the same here in the 26 county Republic of Ireland as it is in the 6 counties of Northern Ireland??

So far how many Irish(26 counties) councils have had motions tabled?

youngblood

Are people using this?

http://tellyourtd.com/

A quick and easy way to contact your local TD's outlining your views on marriage equality.

The letter could also be sent to County Councils

You could also use the email to send it to other TDs and get them to answer the last 2 questions of the Letter which is automatically sent.

We could then report back here as to what TD's would actually support marriage equality


Worth a shot???

Fenian Army

foggy_lad wrote: »

So the equality leglislation is the same here in the 26 county Republic of Ireland as it is in the 6 counties of Northern Ireland??

So far how many Irish(26 counties) councils have had motions tabled?

Just Cork AFAIK, plan is to do it everywhere though.

From the SF LGBT Facebook:

Sinn Fein Cllr Pádraig Quinn has just submitted a motion in support of Marriage Equality to be tabled at Dungannon Council in September. Best of luck to him and our other Councillors in Dundalk , Louth County, Fermanagh, Waterford, Derry, and South Dublin County who will be proposing this motion in the next number of weeks!

foggy_lad

Fenian Army wrote: »

Just Cork AFAIK, plan is to do it everywhere though.

From the SF LGBT Facebook:

Why are Sinn Fein treating the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as a single country for this? surely the legislation is different here in the Republic to what is in the North of Ireland? They appear to be organising campaigns which encompass ALL Ireland but as elected representatives here in Ireland they should not be dealing with any issues relating to the north!

They were at the same nonsense all through their failed Presidential Election campain, Their war will never be over as long as they do not openly accept that IRELAND IS ONLY 26 COUNTIES!!

Fenian Army

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why are Sinn Fein treating the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as a single country for this? surely the legislation is different here in the Republic to what is in the North of Ireland? They appear to be organising campaigns which encompass ALL Ireland but as elected representatives here in Ireland they should not be dealing with any issues relating to the north!

They were at the same nonsense all through their failed Presidential Election campain, Their war will never be over as long as they do not openly accept that IRELAND IS ONLY 26 COUNTIES!!

:rolleyes:

Conor30

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why are Sinn Fein treating the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as a single country for this? surely the legislation is different here in the Republic to what is in the North of Ireland?

I don't think they are. They are merely calling motions in county councils where they are in power, wherever that happens to be on the island. Neither jurisdiction on this island has full marriage equality, so efforts are needed in both and all over in order to help bring it about across the island. Of course, it's all just posturing but it can't be but welcomed. Whether you like it or not, SF are an all-island party and can do as they please.

Stabshauptmann

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why are Sinn Fein treating the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as a single country for this? surely the legislation is different here in the Republic to what is in the North of Ireland? They appear to be organising campaigns which encompass ALL Ireland but as elected representatives here in Ireland they should not be dealing with any issues relating to the north!

They were at the same nonsense all through their failed Presidential Election campain, Their war will never be over as long as they do not openly accept that IRELAND IS ONLY 26 COUNTIES!!

What the **** does your SF bashing have to do with marraige equality?

foggy_lad

Conor30 wrote: »

I don't think they are. They are merely calling motions in county councils where they are in power, wherever that happens to be on the island. Neither jurisdiction on this island has full marriage equality, so efforts are needed in both and all over in order to help bring it about across the island. Of course, it's all just posturing but it can't be but welcomed. Whether you like it or not, SF are an all-island party and can do as they please.

They don't have an "all Ireland" mandate from the people who elected them in the republic, they should represent the people who elected them here in the republic instead of trying to bring their northern nationalist 32county Republic agenda into everything they do!

Conor30

foggy_lad wrote: »

They don't have an "all Ireland" mandate from the people who elected them in the republic, they should represent the people who elected them here in the republic instead of trying to bring their northern nationalist 32county Republic agenda into everything they do!

The fact that they happened to table marriage equality motions at councils that happen to be on either side of the border is tantamount to them pushing an all-Ireland mandate, is it? That wouldn't even be possible, as there are two jurisdictions on this island, last time I checked. However, they are a (growing) political party on both sides of the border and have members in both councils and parliaments on the whole island. Get over it.
Besides, I'd have thought that most of the people who actually elected them in the Republic would actually believe in the idea of 32-county state themselves, and therefore SF are representing them!
The real issue here is how homophobic and generally backward the DUP are at town councils in Northern Ireland, when it comes to marriage equality, not that anyone is surprised of course. Hahaha

Annasopra

foggy_lad wrote: »

So the equality leglislation is the same here in the 26 county Republic of Ireland as it is in the 6 counties of Northern Ireland??

So far how many Irish(26 counties) councils have had motions tabled?

No - the equality legislation is not the same. What do you mean by equality legislation though? Do you mean equal status and equality in employment laws or do you mean civil partnership laws. Either way they are different.

I think Dublin City Council will have a motion at its September meeting submitted by Labour Cllrs and I did hear Limerick Labour Cllrs wanted to submit one but FG are probably opposing it.

foggy_lad

mango salsa wrote: »

No - the equality legislation is not the same. What do you mean by equality legislation though? Do you mean equal status and equality in employment laws or do you mean civil partnership laws. Either way they are different.

I think Dublin City Council will have a motion at its September meeting submitted by Labour Cllrs and I did hear Limerick Labour Cllrs wanted to submit one but FG are probably opposing it.

I mean the civil partnership laws and while the comments of some Northern politicions are in very poor taste they are surely just as entitled to their views on homosexuality as the Sinn Fein politicians are entitled to see the whole of Ireland as a single state.

Annasopra

foggy_lad wrote: »

I mean the civil partnership laws and while the comments of some Northern politicions are in very poor taste they are surely just as entitled to their views on homosexuality as the Sinn Fein politicians are entitled to see the whole of Ireland as a single state.

Both parties are not living in the real world and Sinn Fein are in fact fighting against those who voted for the Good Friday Agreement by continuing to push towards a 32 county Republic!

I'm not really sure what your comments about SF have to do with Marriage Equality though? It seems you just want to find reasons to give out about Sinn Fein.

Fenian Army

They are pushing the issue throughout Ireland because all Irish people deserve marriage equality, do you not agree?

foggy_lad

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not really sure what your comments about SF have to do with Marriage Equality though? It seems you just want to find reasons to give out about Sinn Fein.

I have been giving out about Sinn Fein a bit and for that i apologise to all, this is not the place for that discussion.

While I do agree that Sinn Fein councillors are doing a good job in some of the areas they have been elected they should try to keep what they are doing north of the border seperate to what is going on here in the Republic.

As for the remarks by the Dup and Uup councillors well they will have to answer for their lack of compassion and for their lack of forgiveness on the day of Judgement! (Lets just say where they will be going they wont need their overcoats!)

floggg

The Sinn Fein bashing is a bit ludicrous.

Firstly, they are a single party which operates on both sides of the border. Shock horror they have the same policy on a human rights issue north and south! Who'd have thunk it?

Secondly, man people share their view that Ireland is one country not two (and not everybody who does is an IRA supporter).

Ireland was always one country - there was essentially a political dispute as to how we would he governed which lead to partition, but we are still one nation in my book.

And if you don't like people treating it as one country I suggest you write strongly worded letters to the GAA, IRFU, IOC and all those Olympians we cheered on for the last month for dating to disagree with you.

Finally, i am pretty sure that there are legal reasons under the Good Friday agreement which require a certain degree of co-ordination between North and South on issues like marriage equality.

We get that people don't like Sinn Fein/the IRA these days. But in their haste to bash Sinn Fein, they seem to forget the realities of Irish history and culture.

And what's worse is that they are actually doing something really good here. Give then credit where credit is due.

Fenian Army

Just to offer an update on this;

Sinn Fein Cllrs. in Newry and Mourne and Fermanagh will be proposing motions in support of marriage equality on Monday night! Fantastic!

Annasopra

I'm fairly sure that Labour in Dublin City Council will be proposing a motion too.

Fenian Army

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that Labour in Dublin City Council will be proposing a motion too.

Good stuff, AFAIK when Dublin city pass a motion it has to be debated by all councils in the 26. (open to correction)

Hopefully it'll get passed, political parties in the 26 arent quite as resistant as the DUP etc it seems

Fenian Army

Fenian Army wrote: »

Good stuff, AFAIK when Dublin city pass a motion it has to be debated by all councils in the 26. (open to correction)

Hopefully it'll get passed, political parties in the 26 arent quite as resistant as the DUP etc it seems

Just an update on this a SF motion in support of marriage equality will be debated tomorrow at the Dublin City council meeting.

(pretty sure it's a SF motion, doesnt really matter as long as it gets passed).

Aard

Does the councils' support of marriage equality actually mean anything? Do they have the power to raise the issue to a national level?

I understand that it raises awareness, of course, but I had always assumed that such issues were beyond their remit.

Annasopra

Fenian Army wrote: »

Just an update on this a SF motion in support of marriage equality will be debated tomorrow at the Dublin City council meeting.

(pretty sure it's a SF motion, doesnt really matter as long as it gets passed).

It's definitely not a Sinn Fein proposed motion. My understanding is that FG councillors will probably vote against it.

Fenian Army

mango salsa wrote: »

Fenian Army wrote: »

Just an update on this a SF motion in support of marriage equality will be debated tomorrow at the Dublin City council meeting.

(pretty sure it's a SF motion, doesnt really matter as long as it gets passed).

It's definitely not a Sinn Fein proposed motion. My understanding is that FG councillors will probably vote against it.

not surprising is it?

Fenian Army

Aard wrote: »

Does the councils' support of marriage equality actually mean anything? Do they have the power to raise the issue to a national level?

I understand that it raises awareness, of course, but I had always assumed that such issues were beyond their remit.

significant soft power, best way to show that there is support on the ground for something

Aard

Fenian Army wrote: »

significant soft power, best way to show that there is support on the ground for something

That's what I'd thought. Not a bad thing at any rate, as it'd be hard to ignore if a majority of councils were to support it.

Fenian Army

mango salsa wrote: »

It's definitely not a Sinn Fein proposed motion. My understanding is that FG councillors will probably vote against it.

This is why I got confused:

September 2, 2012

Dublin City’s five Sinn Féin Councillors have urged the full support of Dublin City Council for marriage equality. Sinn Féin has tabled a motion for Monday’s City Council meeting calling for “the same rights and entitlements to civil marriages for all citizens of Dublin regardless of race, religion or sexuality”.

Urging unanimous Council support in advance of Monday’s meeting, the leader of the Sinn Féin group on the Council, Cllr. Larry O'Toole, said:

“Marriage equality for all should have the full support of Dublin City Council in recognition of the equal rights of all citizens. Same-sex couples in particular are discriminated against under the present legislation – the time for change is now.

“Across Ireland, on both sides of the Border, Sinn Féin councillors have secured the support of councils for this principle. I am confident that Dublin City Council will also endorse the principle of marriage equality.

“Labour councillors have tabled a similar motion to ours and I hope we hear the united voice of the Council at its monthly meeting on Monday, thus giving a further boost to the drive for legal reform and full equality.” ENDS

Great to see parties falling over themselves to support marriage equality

Annasopra

Yeah - Labour got there first on this one and then Sinn Fein jump on to try and claim credit.

Fenian Army

Is there any point to this cynicism?

As you know Sinn Féin are running a national campaign on this issue, bringing it to as many councils as possible. We all know the labour party only care about Dublin, never mind the country as a whole.

This is hardly jumping on the bandwagon on SFs part when they are systematically bringing motions everywhere and have been for some time.

Bottom line is, who cares as long as it gets passed. Or both get passed, the important thing is that the message gets put out.

Annasopra

Fenian Army wrote: »

Is there any point to this cynicism?

Not being cynical - just pointing out what happened here.

bodice ripper

I for one am wary of knee-cappers bearing gifts...

floggg

bodice ripper wrote: »

I for one am wary of knee-cappers bearing gifts...

Yawn.

I dislike their politics but people need to accept that Sinn Fein are now a major political party and move on.

Just as two wrongs don't make a right, numerous wrongs don't make all future actions wrong either.

bodice ripper

floggg wrote: »

Yawn.

I dislike their politics but people need to accept that Sinn Fein are now a major political party and move on.

Just as two wrongs don't make a right, numerous wrongs don't make all future actions wrong either.

I'd agree if they had done the decent thing and had the people directly involved step down. Otherwise they will never be legitimate in my eyes.

Fenian Army

bodice ripper wrote: »

I'd agree if they had done the decent thing and had the people directly involved step down. Otherwise they will never be legitimate in my eyes.

Do you direct the same criticism at the sticky infested labour party?

bodice ripper

Fenian Army wrote: »

Do you direct the same criticism at the sticky infested labour party?

the same criticism? no. Am I fond of them? Also no.

What is "sticky infested"?

Fenian Army

bodice ripper wrote: »

the same criticism? no. Am I fond of them? Also no.

What is "sticky infested"?

Considering you were criticizing republicans I assumed you had an idea of what you were talking about and would get the reference.

Stickies = Official IRA/Workers party. Ask Gilmore about it.

bodice ripper

Fenian Army wrote: »

Considering you were criticizing republicans I assumed you had an idea of what you were talking about and would get the reference.

Stickies = Official IRA/Workers party. Ask Gilmore about it.

Please, I am not one of those armchair eejits who gets off on knowing all the lingo etc. But yes, that is generally why I am not fond of labor either.

Annasopra

Ok folks - this is about councils supporting marriage equality. If you want to discuss Sinn Feins politics more then go to the politics forum

Pride Fighter

Great to see Labour leading on this issue like they have been since the Labour Party Minister for Equality Mervyn Taylor decriminalised homosexuality in 1993. From what I understand young Labour councillors Jane Horgan-Jones and Rebecca Moynihan have driven this and tabled tonights motion.

Fenian Army

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Great to see Labour leading on this issue like they have been since the Labour Party Minister for Equality Mervyn Taylor decriminalised homosexuality in 1993. From what I understand young Labour councillors Jane Horgan-Jones and Rebecca Moynihan have driven this and tabled tonights motion.

If only they'd get their finger out and bring about marriage equality, they're in a position to do so! (or at least make it a condition of remaining in govt)

Will be interesting to see what they say if the FG reps vote against the motion.

Fenian Army

The cowardly stoops abstained in Fermanagh meaning that the motion was defeated by one vote. dirtbags

Chloris

I'm not saying this to be a homophobe or anything, but when they eventually do change the archaic marriage laws in this stupid country, wouldn't it be really funny if they simultaneously legalised monogamy by accident? As a female, I think it would be kind of awesome to gather a collection of wives.

Aard

Chloris wrote: »

I'm not saying this to be a homophobe or anything, but when they eventually do change the archaic marriage laws in this stupid country, wouldn't it be really funny if they simultaneously legalised monogamy by accident? As a female, I think it would be kind of awesome to gather a collection of wives.

You mean polygamy, right?

Annasopra

Dublin City Council SF/Labour motions passed 38 in favour 4 against

Fenian Army

mango salsa wrote: »

Dublin City Council SF/Labour motions passed 38 in favour 4 against

Few abstentions as well

Aard

mango salsa wrote: »

Dublin City Council SF/Labour motions passed 38 in favour 4 against

Any idea who voted against?

Annasopra

Fenian Army wrote: »

Few abstentions as well

38 in favour, 4 against, 1 abstention, 9 absent

The votes against were all FG Bill Tormey, Paddy McCartan, Edie Wynne and Ruairi McGinly, abstention was the Lord Mayor Naoise O Muiri!