Planning for mixed use

TheChizler

Hey, just a question on planning, searched the forum but couldn't find our exact situation.

I'm helping a group who are converting an old cinema to concert hall with an adjoining café and possibly a rehearsal studio. Everything was going fine, just bogged down in getting the fire & disability certs sorted, however while talking to someone on the local council, they were informed that they would need to apply for planning permission for change of use of the development. This came as a surprise as I had looked into this for them before they started, and everyone I had talked to was of the opinion that cinema and concert hall were in the same class of development, and therefore exempt from permission.

Both cinema and concert hall are listed at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2, part 4, as class 11 developments, and unless I am misunderstanding article 10, if they are changing within this category it is exempted.

I understand that the café might be what is throwing a spanner in the works, except this wasn't mentioned to the council representative, as the primary venture is the concert hall.

Would the café count as class 1; shop? And what happens when there are multiple classes in one development? The café is only complimentary to the primary function as concert hall, i.e. it will only be selling tea/coffee and maybe cakes.

They have been writing to an bord pleanala, and phoning around, but the only word so far is that they're not sure and to apply just in case. Not a great statement. Any planning application would set the project back months, which has already been set back for complications in the certification process. I'd appreciate it if someone could explain the process when there's multiple classes involved. Cheers!

kkelliher

TheChizler wrote: »

Hey, just a question on planning, searched the forum but couldn't find our exact situation.

I'm helping a group who are converting an old cinema to concert hall with an adjoining café and possibly a rehearsal studio. Everything was going fine, just bogged down in getting the fire & disability certs sorted, however while talking to someone on the local council, they were informed that they would need to apply for planning permission for change of use of the development. This came as a surprise as I had looked into this for them before they started, and everyone I had talked to was of the opinion that cinema and concert hall were in the same class of development, and therefore exempt from permission.

Both cinema and concert hall are listed at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2, part 4, as class 11 developments, and unless I am misunderstanding article 10, if they are changing within this category it is exempted.

I understand that the café might be what is throwing a spanner in the works, except this wasn't mentioned to the council representative, as the primary venture is the concert hall.

Would the café count as class 1; shop? And what happens when there are multiple classes in one development? The café is only complimentary to the primary function as concert hall, i.e. it will only be selling tea/coffee and maybe cakes.

They have been writing to an bord pleanala, and phoning around, but the only word so far is that they're not sure and to apply just in case. Not a great statement. Any planning application would set the project back months, which has already been set back for complications in the certification process. I'd appreciate it if someone could explain the process when there's multiple classes involved. Cheers!

i would advise contacting the local planer responsible for the area and arranging a meeting. nothing beats hearing it from the horses mouth

TheChizler

Just to continue this here as there have been new developments. The local planner came back after their month holidays and informed them that there was a condition on the old planning permission for the premises, that if the usage was to ever change from cinema to anything else, even in the same class, that they would need to get planning permission. This means another three months of waiting for planners before they can start any work.

The property manager is getting iffy because they had an agreement that they would start paying rent once they got up and running, and saying that they should just proceed anyway, no need for fire certs and the like :eek:.

My brother is justifiably pissed off, as the council had lost all records of the previous planning permission granted so they couldn't find out for themselves, and the owner never informed them of this condition which has just come to light.

So basically my question is, can a condition placed on 17 year old planning permission for a previous tenant take precedence over the legislation which says that changes in the same class are exempt from planning? The group have been onto the planning officer and owner trying to get this in writing, but nobody is being very co-operative. Cheers in advance.