Views on the HL Maths bonus 25 points

HeaneyBabe

Do you agree or disagree?

I disagree. Although it is a good incentive to try and get more people to do honours maths, I don't really think it's fair for a few reasons.

1. It's pushing most courses' points up, and some people applying to these courses affected will not have the bonus 25 points and could be a disadvantage by receiving lower points?

2. Some people aren't Mathematical. I do agree that to actually have a brain that will understand the difficult maths is a wonderful thing, but some people don't and could be linguistic. In my opinion, HL irish is potentially just as difficult with many struggling in it. Maths is obviously harder, but if they're looking to increase the number of people speaking Irish, surely they should do the same and offer 25 extra points.

However, a huge congratulations to all who passed HL maths and stuck with it through the tears and stress. You worked extremely hard and you should be proud of yourselves.

haro124

It's really inflating points ! Half my class got over 500 ! And I feel sorry for people who only did ordinary because they are now at more of a disadvantage due to these higher points which will lead to higher points for courses

Dapics

I dunno what to make of it.
Good incentive but a bit unfair.

All I can say is hopefully accountancy & Finance in DCU dosen't go up by more than 10 points.

edit: What is the likelyhood it does go up? I need some reassurance

biohaiid

I'm not a fan.
At first I thought it was no big dea. The honors maths people get extra points, good for them.
Then when I realised it affected all those doing ordinary maths I was kinda pissed.
Why add 25 bonus points for maths?
Its one subject where you either get it or you dont, leaving some people at a huge advantage but others at a huge disadvantage.
If there was gonna be bonus points then why not for Irish?
Although personally I am completely against any bonus points.
I know they are trying to convince people to try harder at maths (why I'm not sure since there are few jobs relating to it), but why not just go with the project maths for a few years and see how that worked out, instead of throwing them both at the same people all at once??

HeaneyBabe

I agree, unfair to people doing Ordinary who would do Higher if they were able. People like myself who tried so hard to stay in Higher Level but it got the better of me. I am quite good at languages though, so I feel it's unfair that just the people doing HL maths get the points and not HL irish..

Oh well

randylonghorn

Pro:

1) It encourages people to do Hons Maths who might otherwise have chosen to do OL (despite being well able for HL) and concentrate on getting a good Hons grade in what is seen as an "easier", less time-consuming subject.

Con:

1) Giving bonus points for maths at the same time as introducing a new, unproven course is illogical, imho.

2) Blunt instrument approach. People who are good at Maths, and able for HL, get bonus points regardless of whether their course is any way maths-relevant. So people with HL Maths get an advantage when applying for language courses, nursing courses, horticulture courses, music courses, etc. etc.


I have seen much better ideas to improve the standard of maths and the numbers undertaking it advanced on this forum and elsewhere ... but they would all have cost money. This one had all the best factors from a political viewpoint: it was a quick fix, it cost little or nothing, it made the Minister look like he was doing something.

Dapics

^^^ +1.

Togepi

They should definitely not give bonus points for Irish. I've always loved the language, but it's definitely the least deserving of bonus points... That is all.

HeaneyBabe

Togepi wrote: »

They should definitely not give bonus points for Irish. I've always loved the language, but it's definitely the least deserving of bonus points... That is all.

don't see how it's the least deserving? it's an extremely tricky language

biohaiid

HeaneyBabe wrote: »

don't see how it's the least deserving? it's an extremely tricky language

Not to mention our Native language.
Makes more sense to me anyways.

HeaneyBabe

biohaiid wrote: »

Not to mention our Native language.
Makes more sense to me anyways.

exactly.. i think they should offer bonus points to irish and maths or none at all

Canard

I disagree I think. I got points from it but I didn't need maths for my course, nor will I ever study it again, so it's not like they've earned a new recruit. My main grievance is with the huge pass rate - it's so obvious that they threw marks at everyone, I'm probably no exception to that.

I disagree with either getting maths or not getting it though, I don't have maths brain but managed a C3, and while I didn't "get it" I didn't not get it either - some concepts were easy, some weren't.

However, if it just applied to maths/science courses they'd be useless, so that's another side to it.

Oh and Irish deserves no bonus points...its bad enough that Irish speakers get an easy A and 10% extra, but being blunt it's one of the least useful subjects and is so so unfair on people who aren't linguistic.

randylonghorn

Togepi wrote: »

They should definitely not give bonus points for Irish. I've always loved the language, but it's definitely the least deserving of bonus points... That is all.

HeaneyBabe wrote: »

don't see how it's the least deserving? it's an extremely tricky language

biohaiid wrote: »

Not to mention our Native language.
Makes more sense to me anyways.

HeaneyBabe wrote: »

exactly.. i think they should offer bonus points to irish and maths or none at all

Oh please, let's not get off on this tangent!! >.<

Depends on your point of view, and people will never agree: if cultural factors are the priority, there's a case for bonus points for Irish; if economic factors are paramount, there's not much of a case.

Let's leave it at that, shall we?

Togepi

HeaneyBabe wrote: »

don't see how it's the least deserving? it's an extremely tricky language

Yes but it's not useful for college at all, I mean, what percentage of people go on to use it after the Leaving Cert, apart from Irish teachers and primary teachers? Yes, it's tricky, but they've made the course far easier this year. I don't see any reason for it to have bonus points, if you have any then by all means point them out but honestly I don't see any. I just think it's the least deserving because so few people have a use for it after secondary school, whereas Maths is very useful in many areas.

@randy sorry, I saw a couple of posts suggesting bonus points for Irish so I thought I'd give my opinion. Fair point, I used to be horrified at the idea of Irish being optional because it's our native tongue and all, but now I've completely changed my mind. Yeah, people never agree on it, so I'll leave it at that. :P

HeaneyBabe

Togepi wrote: »

Yes but it's not useful for college at all, I mean, what percentage of people go on to use it after the Leaving Cert, apart from Irish teachers and primary teachers? Yes, it's tricky, but they've made the course far easier this year. I don't see any reason for it to have bonus points, if you have any then by all means point them out but honestly I don't see any. I just think it's the least deserving because so few people have a use for it after secondary school, whereas Maths is very useful in many areas.

true, very true. but that's why irish should get bonus points too, it is because people have this attitude (and the british played a part too) towards irish..

haro124

Was the amount of effort ye put in to get those extra points worth it ? Maths dominated my study and I went from d on fifth year up to a b on the real thing so I'm happy I stuck at it cOs last September I was gonna drop it !

louisecos

Dapics wrote: »

I dunno what to make of it.
Good incentive but a bit unfair.

All I can say is hopefully accountancy & Finance in DCU dosen't go up by more than 10 points.

edit: What is the likelyhood it does go up? I need some reassurance

Hopefully doing this same course in DCU. Points might not jump by too much as there are many people who take it without having honours maths as it isn't a requirement and there is always the 2nd round to hope for, as the course was not full last year!

christopherson

We are living in an era where Science and Technology is paramount. Therefore those who qualify for these courses in college should be of higher intelligence. Higher Level maths students are of higher intelligence. Therefore the intentions of the government is very clear, "we are in a recession, we need to excel in other areas, get the best people to college to make this happen"

lemon_remon

christopherson wrote: »

We are living in an era where Science and Technology is paramount. Therefore those who qualify for these courses in college should be of higher intelligence. Higher Level maths students are of higher intelligence. Therefore the intentions of the government is very clear, "we are in a recession, we need to excel in other areas, get the best people to college to make this happen"

That doesn't really explain the dumbing down of the maths course though.

Rayne Wooney

I do all my subjects through Irish bar English, so I'll get 25 points for every subject.. Yeah I'm good with that

The extra points for maths is just a quick fix until they work something else out, because let's face it if they hadn't introduced it in 5 years there probably wouldn't be anyone left willing to take higher level

Cruel Sun

christopherson wrote: »

Higher Level maths students are of higher intelligence. Therefore the intentions of the government is very clear, "we are in a recession, we need to excel in other areas, get the best people to college to make this happen"

No. That is all wrong.

Canard

The best people get to college anyway. That's kind of why it's done on points and nothing else.

lemon_remon wrote: »

That doesn't really explain the dumbing down of the maths course though.

It's marked easier, but it's nowhere near as dumbed down as people are making it out to be.

MattHelders

It has worked out fantastically well for me but I can see why other people have grievances.

I'm very mathematically minded. Have always been since primary school but I am one of the laziest people you will meet when it comes to studying.

I would have dropped Maths in 5th year had it not been for the bonus points. I ended up getting a B3 which has pretty much guaranteed me my course

So it definately makes people work harder.

I disagree that Irish should get bonus points though. In all fairness, maths is needed in the majority of employments. Irish is not needed at all in pretty much any job.

Many courses also have a Maths requirement while very few have Irish requirements

christopherson

lemon_remon wrote: »

That doesn't really explain the dumbing down of the maths course though.

The old course has tougher material but the way it is asked in the exam does not promote intelligent thinking, but more like rote learning. While the new course has less material but is ask in a way which requires the student to actually understand what is been asked and what he/she should do. Which represents real life problems a lot more.

In other words, the material has been dumbed down but the exam, itself, has not.

lemon_remon

Patchy~ wrote: »

It's marked easier, but it's nowhere near as dumbed down as people are making it out to be.

Perhaps, but it's still pretty dumbed down. Project Maths doesn't help things by trying to take out one of the most useful aspects of learning maths which is the ability to think in abstractions.

christopherson

Cruel Sun wrote: »

No. That is all wrong.

We need the best people in college. It can be a cruel world, Cruel Sun.

randylonghorn

christopherson wrote: »

We are living in an era where Science and Technology is paramount. Therefore those who qualify for these courses in college should be of higher intelligence. Higher Level maths students are of higher intelligence.

No. Those who are good at / find Maths easy tend to score highly in a certain type of intelligence; what Gardner et al would call logical-mathematical intelligence.

It doesn't necessarily imply that they are of higher intelligence overall.

christopherson

Patchy~ wrote: »

The best people get to college anyway. That's kind of why it's done on points and nothing else.


This is not true, the people who decide to work hard at remembering useless information get to college.

BrianBoru00

christopherson wrote: »

We are living in an era where Science and Technology is paramount. Therefore those who qualify for these courses in college should be of higher intelligence. Higher Level maths students are of higher intelligence. Therefore the intentions of the government is very clear, "we are in a recession, we need to excel in other areas, get the best people to college to make this happen"

Pretty typical of the "barstool brigade". Does honours maths.,..ergo...intelligent.

- Have a google for Gardners Intelligences and broaden your mind.


The LC is not perfect but it is fair. It would take a huge overhaul to for example allow different points for each individual course, depending on subjects studied.

The fact is that technology / science is the main driving force of the economy - a long way clear of say agriculture or contruction so it is imperative that we have a consistent supply of top quality gradates.

This IS where the jobs lie and there is a problem at third level where people are making a jump from OL Maths (very similar to JC HL) to Honours level and higher. So we should be encouraging people to persist with the higher level. The 25 marks was available to ANY student if they so wished , plenty were happy to remain at OL.

So again while you argue that its unfair to students who are excellent linguistically and can easily attain an A in English/ French /Irish, I think you 'd then also have to say its unfair on the student who will do all ordinary level subjects but would be exceptional and an A1 student at P.E. if that was on the curriculum .

Canard

christopherson wrote: »

This is not true, the people who decide to work hard at remembering useless information get to college.

Oh right, so everyone here who did well in things like French/English/Irish/Maths/Physics/Chemistry/Biology/Applied Maths, all they did was learn things off, and it's all useless. Great logic there!

christopherson

randylonghorn wrote: »

No. Those who are good at / find Maths easy tend to score highly in a certain type of intelligence;.

This "certain type of intelligence", is the only type of intelligence that really matters.