The Immortals - A new way to protest?

LoYL

The Immortals were Persian infantry. http://www.livius.org/ia-in/immortals/immortals.html
Their most famous battle was their engagement at Thermopylae where they eventually through treachery overcame the 300 Spartans of Leonidas.
The Immortals were trying to force tyranny and dictatorship on the Greek states; Leonidas fought for Sparta but also helped to save the Greek democratic states. The multiple ironies will be lost on the right wingers who march in Germany under the banner of the Immortals.

alastair

mrduffy wrote: »

I agree from reading source, I just never heard of anoynomous like this I though they were on internet hacking sites and other stuff.

These people aren't anything to do with Anonymous - they're a far-right wannabe group.

hooradiation

Wibbs wrote: »

Bit strong, don't you think? Easy word to throw around mind you. For me it's often as lazy as the guff the racist types chuck out.

Welcome to false equivalence theatre everyone!

marshbaboon

We should just put all these racists in a big death camp somewhere...

IrishAm

southsiderosie wrote: »

This group is deliberately re-creating the kinds of night marches and intimidation tactics used during the Third Reich and by the Ku Klux Klan. Nothing new here under the sun except for the numpty on his mobile phone while leading the march.

On a different note, I hate cowardly right-wingers who try to intimidate others while hiding their own identity - the Klan being a prime example. Take the masks off and stand over your beliefs.

The leader of the group did. El Weirdo posted the video of him, earlier in the thread. He attended a political debate, live on TV. The presenter asks the audience "anyone here vote far-right?" he screams up "me". She asks him up to defend his views and he lost his job the next day. So he set up his own IT company and is now a millionaire.

Some coward.:pac:

Wibbs

hooradiation wrote: »

Welcome to false equivalence theatre everyone!

No. I simply take issue with one member insulting another member without links to back up the insult involved. Hey if he's a racist gobshíte I'll be happy to hold the pitchforks, but I prefer innocent until proven otherwise.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

No. I simply take issue with one member insulting another member without links to back up the insult involved. Hey if he's a racist gobshíte I'll be happy to hold the pitchforks, but I prefer innocent until proven otherwise.

Europe is the homeland of the white man. Educated or non educated non whites will never feel that they truly belong here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80180034&postcount=63

Honestly - just check his posts. He's an unabashed racist.

Tym

In all honesty, the look of that march is one step short of the KKK.

southsiderosie

IrishAm wrote: »

The leader of the group did. El Weirdo posted the video of him, earlier in the thread. He attended a political debate, live on TV. The presenter asks the audience "anyone here vote far-right?" he screams up "me". She asks him up to defend his views and he lost his job the next day. So he set up his own IT company and is now a millionaire.

Some coward.:pac:

One person out of a crowd of two hundred? Wow, that really negates my point. :rolleyes:

Nodin

Given the record of the Far right in this country, they couldn't organise a bog standard mob, let alone a flash one.

pragmatic1

Nodin wrote: »

Given the record of the Far right in this country, they couldn't organise a bog standard mob, let alone a flash one.

Probably because some of our lefties have guns.

Sulla Felix

Nodin wrote: »

Given the record of the Far right in this country, they couldn't organise a bog standard mob, let alone a flash one.

I always wondered about that. ost other countries in Europe had far left and right groups at the start of the 19th c, we really only had leftist. I mean, the bluesgirts were pretty much s joke fascist outfit compared to the European norm right?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

El Weirdo

Aquila wrote: »

What was the name of that racist Irish group that was in existence?

"The Stupid Cunts", iirc.

Nodin

Aquila wrote: »

What was the name of that racist Irish group that was in existence?

Theres been a few. The last crowd that come to mind are this lot
http://www.drmireland.com/

The reason for the amusing rant on the website is that they were supposed to protest across from the British Embassy in support of Emma West (yer woman ranting on the train in that youtube video) but when he heard there was going to be a counter-demo he 'declined to appear'. He apparently snuck up the next night with one of his mates and his young fella and did it then.

Morlar

southsiderosie wrote: »

One person out of a crowd of two hundred? Wow, that really negates my point. :rolleyes

I think the part about him losing his job does, yes.

southsiderosie

Morlar wrote: »

I think the part about him losing his job does, yes.

Well if you want to be a Neo-Nazi in a state that is the home of Nazism, then be prepared for your fellow citizens to shun you like the piece of **** you are.

I actually think that in most countries, far-right groups should have the right to march and protest (although this is stickier in Germany for obvious reasons). But they shouldn't be able to do so anonymously, particularly in the kinds of actions (clearly meant to be intimidating) shown in the video. People are entitled to their crackpot beliefs, but they should not be shielded from the rest of us calling them on their BS.

Morlar

southsiderosie wrote: »

Well if you want to be a Neo-Nazi in a state that is the home of Nazism, then be prepared for your fellow citizens to shun you like the piece of **** you are.

I actually think that in most countries, far-right groups should have the right to march and protest (although this is stickier in Germany for obvious reasons). But they shouldn't be able to do so anonymously, particularly in the kinds of actions (clearly meant to be intimidating) shown in the video. People are entitled to their crackpot beliefs, but they should not be shielded from the rest of us calling them on their BS.

If German people on the left of the political spectrum lived in an enviornment where to express your political viewpoint would cost you your job - would you still hold it to be cowardly for not publicly identifying themselves ?

Your point about them being cowards doesn't stand in my view, following on from that nor does your assumption they were trying to be intimidating by not identifying themselves. Germany is so far beyond the pale in terms of being uber-politically correct that to me this reads like a logical consequence of that current extreme political climate.

alastair

Morlar wrote: »

If German people on the left of the political spectrum lived in an enviornment where to express your political viewpoint would cost you your job - would you still hold it to be cowardly for not publicly identifying themselves ?

If German people on the left were inclined to spout on TV about their race being undermined by 'inferior races' bent on the destruction of their nation, I'd imagine they would be pretty unpopular at their workplace the next day too. The problem here isn't 'political correctness' - it's that no-one wants to enable such abhorrent attitudes. Particularly when that country has had ample experience those self-same attitudes, and where they lead, in living memory.

IrishAm

alastair wrote: »

Honestly - just check his posts. He's an unabashed racist.

There is a big difference between racial hatred and racial preservation. I am against the former and for the latter.

Without a major shift in the current fertility trends, industrialized Europe will see its native population decline by about three-fourths over the 21st century. No civilization has ever recovered from such a population decline, and never before has such a decline been entirely voluntary.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2008/feb/27/white-europeans-an-endangered-species/

We, as indigenous Europeans, are a dying people. That is a statement of fact.

southsiderosie

IrishAm wrote: »

There is a big difference between racial hatred and racial preservation. I am against the former and for the latter.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2008/feb/27/white-europeans-an-endangered-species/

We, as indigenous Europeans, are a dying people. That is a statement of fact.

It is a big leap from acknowledging that European birth rates are far below replacement levels (a fact that nobody who can read would disagree with) to the kinds of actions that The Immortals are talking about - and that you apparently support, since you call the organizer of this hate-fest a 'sound lad'.

A question - you seem to believe in the idea of an 'indigenous' Europe, but who exactly gets included in that? Because the Slavs, Jews, and gypsies who were abused, persecuted, and murdered by the Third Reich for their racial 'otherness' would probably disagree with your assumptions about the pre-1960s historical 'purity' of Europe.

IrishAm

southsiderosie wrote: »

It is a big leap from acknowledging that European birth rates are far below replacement levels (a fact that nobody who can read would disagree with) to the kinds of actions that The Immortals are talking about - and that you apparently support, since you call the organizer of this hate-fest a 'sound lad'.

He is a sound lad. The movements venom is directed towards the German politicians, not some lad working on minimum wage from Goa in India.

This movement is not based on hate. It is based on love for their people and wanting them to survive and prosper as a distinct ethnic group. What is so wrong with that?

Question to you, why do you think a successful, well off, reasonably good looking young lad would set up such a movement?

southsiderosie wrote: »

A question - you seem to believe in the idea of an 'indigenous' Europe, but who exactly gets included in that? Because the Slavs, Jews, and gypsies who were abused, persecuted, and murdered by the Third Reich for their racial 'otherness' would probably disagree with your assumptions about the pre-1960s historical 'purity' of Europe.

If you gave me access to a time machine in the morning, the first thing I would do is go back in time to when Hitler was a struggling artist in Vienna and plug him full of lead. Hitler is partly to blame for Europe's current population decimation.

IrishAm

alastair wrote: »

Honestly - just check his posts. He's an unabashed racist.

Smears as usual. If you would politely ask my political beliefs, I would of been happy to have exchanged them with you. But, you didn't. Instead you quoted me out of context.

Sound, man. Real sound.

I can quote you supporting the Orange Order and post your comments supporting Islam. Which would not be out of context.

Thanks!

IrishAm

I am pie wrote: »

True, especially when they are allegedly trying to protect German national identity, by hiding their identity.

Yeah, kid. Germany is so open to discussion and debate. I have a tattoo on me left tit. It resembles a Celtic Cross.

If I took off my shirt whilst sunbathing in Germany, I would be arrested.

The public use of the Celtic Cross after a ruling by the Federal Court generally prohibited and punishable. The prohibition applies even if no connection with the unconstitutional neo-Nazi organization is manufactured by the Cross emblem as used.

The German authorities are open to a free debate alright.........:pac:

IrishAm

alastair wrote: »

Not for some though, eh?

Idiot racist mob hiding their faces while they take to the street - how novel!

You support the orange order, so excuse me here, but care to suck my cock?

I care not a jot about you and your pro Orange Order opinions.

policarp

Black shirt, Blue shirt, Brown Shirt,
Now we have Russian Pussies. . .

Sharpshooter

IrishAm wrote: »

You support the orange order, so excuse me here, but care to suck my cock?

I care not a jot about you and your pro Orange Order opinions.

Mod

Banned.

randylonghorn

IrishAm wrote: »

This movement is not based on hate. It is based on love for their people and wanting them to survive and prosper as a distinct ethnic group. What is so wrong with that?

So the Aryan ethnicity still need more "living space" to survive?

And since when did love need to hide its face?

IrishAm wrote: »

Question to you, why do you think a successful, well off, reasonably good looking young lad would set up such a movement?

Egotism? Political beliefs? What have his looks or his wealth got to do with it?

IrishAm wrote: »

If you gave me access to a time machine in the morning, the first thing I would do is go back in time to when Hitler was a struggling artist in Vienna and plug him full of lead. Hitler is partly to blame for Europe's current population decimation.

So you would shoot Hitler ... because you abhor his beliefs, or because he failed and caused population decimation, which in turn encouraged immigration from outside Europe?

Kurz

IrishAm wrote: »

You support the orange order, so excuse me here, but care to suck my cock?

I care not a jot about you and your pro Orange Order opinions.

Sure no-one likes the Orange Order. But when you have an OP posting about Nazis as "right-wing patriots" and "sound lads", the whole Orange Order thing goes out the window. You're comparing apples and chainsaws there.

Tigerbaby

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I own a balaclava for snowboarding/skiing, now I'm a terrorist. Great.

Maybe not yet. but you're certainly on the slippery slope.

Nodin

southsiderosie wrote: »

It is a big leap from acknowledging that European birth rates are far below replacement levels (a fact that nobody who can read would disagree with) to the kinds of actions that The Immortals are talking about - and that you apparently support, since you call the organizer of this hate-fest a 'sound lad'.

A question - you seem to believe in the idea of an 'indigenous' Europe, but who exactly gets included in that? Because the Slavs, Jews, and gypsies who were abused, persecuted, and murdered by the Third Reich for their racial 'otherness' would probably disagree with your assumptions about the pre-1960s historical 'purity' of Europe.

And of course the population of much of the mediterranean and balkans are going to have a heavy North African/Turkish influence.

Kirby

Kurz wrote: »

You're comparing apples and chainsaws there.

Best comparison ever!

alastair

IrishAm wrote: »

Smears as usual.

No - you hold racist beliefs. That's just the fact of the matter. Whether you're the shade of racist that just loves what Hitler did, or the kind that believes Hitler to be a 'Race traitor' and prefers the actions of German neo-nazis (for that's what they are) and Golden Dawn - it's kinda besides the point.

IrishAm wrote: »

I can quote you supporting the Orange Order and post your comments supporting Islam. Which would not be out of context.

Thanks!

Well, tbh , you can't quote my support for the Orange Order, because I'm not a supporter, and I've no problem with Muslims, but neither am I a believer. But feel free to try and deflect.

alastair

IrishAm wrote: »

You support the orange order, so excuse me here, but care to suck my cock?

I care not a jot about you and your pro Orange Order opinions.

I can tell. Likewise I've about as much interest in your cock as I do with the OO.

Wibbs

southsiderosie wrote: »

I actually think that in most countries, far-right groups should have the right to march and protest (although this is stickier in Germany for obvious reasons). But they shouldn't be able to do so anonymously, particularly in the kinds of actions (clearly meant to be intimidating) shown in the video. People are entitled to their crackpot beliefs, but they should not be shielded from the rest of us calling them on their BS.

THis would sum my take on it up. The anonymous part riles me. Doesn't matter whether it's some bunch of loonie lefties or righties. Have the courage of your convictions.

Morlar wrote: »

Germany is so far beyond the pale in terms of being uber-politically correct that to me this reads like a logical consequence of that current extreme political climate.

Yea, well in the wake of WW2 Germany became Europe's whipping boy for most of Europe's sins. The moral sacrificial lamb. Offered up as the healing boogyman and yardstick of evil. Made it easier on the rest of Europe to ignore their own part to play in well dodgy evils of their own. "Ah but we weren't as bad as them".

There was fascist support and parties throughout Europe before the war. The Italians pretty much started fascism, yet don't get pointed at nearly so much. Spain was a fascist state, born of blood and serious atrocity. We go on about our own civil war, but the Spanish one much more deserves the name. hundreds or thousands butchered and Franco died in his bed an old man, still in power. In the mid 1970's, when people were going there on sun holidays. The pre war Greek Metaxis(sp) regime was fascist in all but name as far as policies went. There may have been reds under the bed, but there were many a fascist between the sheets. Hell the German Nazi's had enough support in pre war America. Charlie Lindbergh a well known sympathiser, racist, antisemite and speaker on behalf of the views of the German reich. Luckily the yanks utilised the good sense they were known for at the time and rejected the ideas. And don't get me started on France and the French... And that's before we get near the Communist regimes.

The German atrocities and "Final Solution"? They were aided and abetted by damn near every nation they were in, who were only too happy to hand up their Jews and Gypsies and "undesirables". Greece, right on the edge of the "reich" happily rounded up it's Jews and piled them on trains heading for the east and sure annihilation. In the actual death camps, there were as many eastern Europeans, Romanians etc as German troops. Indeed in many cases they were considered the worst of the camp guards as far as cruelty went. Some of the atrocities in camps outside the German influence(Serbia and others) made Treblinka look like a holiday camp and it was a hell on earth.

In the common mind Nazi/Fascist = Germany/Germans. This is a bad plan. At first it breeds shame, then it breeds resentment and it's all too easy for that generally low level shame and resentment over what ones grandparents did or didn't do "in the war" to spill over into WTF?. It can give rise to the sort of feelings it intended to remove. After all it was a lot of that stuff after the Great War that gave rise to the Austrian corporal and his madness. IMH Germany today is ripe for those feelings to reemerge.

Fascism can arise anywhere given the right circumstances. The German people were one of the most educated and "civilised" people in the world back then. Sure most of these far right movements today tend to attract knuckledraggers and mouthbreathers. The lefties garner more intellectuals as a general rule. However if and when the middle classes start to sympathise look out.

Nodin wrote: »

And of course the population of much of the mediterranean and balkans are going to have a heavy North African/Turkish influence.

Indeed N. Greece a good example. If you went back in time to the 19th century, you'd think yourself in a Muslim "eastern" country rather than a Christian "western" one.