Olympic Sports for Ireland to Target

Clareman

Spawning from the other thread, Ireland is suffering in track athletics and swimming, while there is a lot that can be done to revive our fortunes in these sports we could also look at other sports that we could try to win medals in.

Field Athletics
We have a great history of throwing events and have some great potential coming through, we could try to improve our standings through this.

Handball
Personally I think this would be an ideal sport for hurlers to get involved in.

Volleyball
This would be perfect for Gaelic footballers (both beach and "normal")

Weightlifting
There wouldn't take a huge investment to get people trained in this.[/b]

Any thoughts/opinions on this, can you think of any other sports that could be tried?

Silvio.Dante

I don't have time now but I like where you're coming from on the Handball...:)

The_Kew_Tour

Rowing and Kayak/Canoe. We had very decent Rowing teams in past.

Clareman

Great call on canoeing & rowing, there's some great clubs around the country with some great athletes in it, I always got the impression that there's more politics involved in those clubs in this country than most other organisations, this stems from when I was in college I was going on with a girl who was into rowing and she gave me a breakdown of all the clubs around the town and how they didn't get on.

Another sport I think we've a great opportunity is is shooting, there are some brilliant gun clubs around with some great shots in them

The_Kew_Tour

Clareman wrote: »

Great call on canoeing & rowing, there's some great clubs around the country with some great athletes in it, I always got the impression that there's more politics involved in those clubs in this country than most other organisations, this stems from when I was in college I was going on with a girl who was into rowing and she gave me a breakdown of all the clubs around the town and how they didn't get on.

Another sport I think we've a great opportunity is is shooting, there are some brilliant gun clubs around with some great shots in them

My cousin who is only 14 is mad into Canoeing and Kayaking and I was down the club last year where he trains and I have to say they looked to be pretty impressive between setup and how fast they seemed to be going.

Pisco Sour

Handball is a poor choice. The sport is huge on the continent and we would have zero chance of achieving anything.

If medals is all people are about then target soft sports that are only available to the first world and offer a stupid amount of medals in comparison to the amount of people who do the sport (track cycling, rowing, sailing, equestrian, swimming). Personally I value one T&F medal higher than 3 medals from other sports combined, so for me I don't agree with this whole abandon athletics to focus on softer sports lark. An athletics medal is the most prestigious medal out there whether people like it or not. Without athletics, the Olympics wouldn't be half the spectacle it is, and I'd like to one day see the likes of Ciara Mageean and Mark English step up onto the podium.

Agree with the point about Field athletics though but sadly we lack the expertise in Ireland. We may need to bring in Jan Zelezny to coach our up and coming athletes

Also, surely the IRFU could get off their arses and organise a Seven's team for Rio!!

Dan man

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Handball is a poor choice. The sport is huge on the continent and we would have zero chance of achieving anything.
Personally I value one T&F medal higher than 3 medals from other sports combined, so for me I don't agree with this whole abandon athletics to focus on softer sports lark. An athletics medal is the most prestigious medal out there whether people like it or not.

That's just a matter of opinion...a widely held opinion, but not fact.

For me, even though I am a huge fan and self-confessed addict of athletics, a medal in any Olympic sport is as valuable as any other....
Katie Taylor's gold medal in London is for me the proudest moment in Irish sport but it's all a matter of opinion.

If we are to target sports then the first criteria we should look at are:

• sports which we have a decent track record of success in (not necessarily Olympic success)
• sports in which there are multiple opportunities to win medals
• sports in which there are a more limited number of countries vying for medals

This would suggest that it would be worthwhile focussing our attention on sports such as sailing, rowing, canoeing and equestrian whilst of course continuing to seek further improvements in boxing, our most successful Olympic sport in terms of medals won.

There are a few other sports that look like they could deliver success for us over the course of the next two Olympic cycles, although our recent track record in these sports are poor.....
Athletics, as I have mentioned already is looking very bright from an Irish point of view with a number of major talents in junior and underage (World Junior Champions, World Youth Champions included).
In swimming we have a two massive prospects for Rio (Grainne Murphy and in particular Sycerika McMahon) despite the disappointment of London and in modern pentathlon we have numerous young prospects coming through with Natalya Coyle (9th place at the Olympics, aged 21) and Arthur Lanigan-O'Keeffe (26th place at the Olympics, aged 20) leading the charge. Modern Pentathlon would be well worth having a look at in terms of focussing more investment as we have quickly turned our fortunes around in the last couple of seasons from having no representation to being consistently performing at the top end of the international scene. The conversion of athletes from the tetrathlon to pentathlon is an obvious place to scout for talent and has delivered success in such as short time-frame.

The_Kew_Tour

English, Gregan, Mageean and Conor McCullough are names that have been mentioned for the future.

Is there anybody else that people know of that has potiential?

Dan man

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

English, Gregan, Mageean and Conor McCullough are names that have been mentioned for the future.

Is there anybody else that people know of that has potiential?

Kate Veale (World Youth Champion in race walk) is one of our most exciting prospects...Rio 2016 might be a little early given that in this sport athletes often peak when they are approaching 30 years of age but she'll likely qualify for the next Olympics anyway.

mike65

Target Shooting
Trap Shooting
Triathlon
Judo
Taekwondo

marienbad

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

My cousin who is only 14 is mad into Canoeing and Kayaking and I was down the club last year where he trains and I have to say they looked to be pretty impressive between setup and how fast they seemed to be going.

I do know of Rowing clubs that hate each other. I am talking about Dublin here. Never been member or anything of any these, but just heard from Guy who been to Olympics in the past (although he himself is not rower)

No the rowing clubs don't hate each other ,it may appear that way to those not involved, there is just an intense rivarly . It is no different to any club GAA scene up and down the country .

The_Kew_Tour

marienbad wrote: »

No the rowing clubs don't hate each other ,it may appear that way to those not involved, there is just an intense rivarly . It is no different to any club GAA scene up and down the country .

Well I apologise if that is the case.

I will delete my message so.

Glad I am wrong too

marienbad

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well I apologise if that is the case.

I will delete my message so.

Glad I am wrong too

No no , no need to apologise - at the athlete level some of them would kill each other, but at the end of the day the elite guys are off on a training camp together and the other guys and girls are on the piss together taking the piss out the elite guys and girls.

The officials are always on the piss together .

P.S before I get the threatening letters I do of course exaggerate
P.P.S But only a little

The_Kew_Tour

marienbad wrote: »

No no , no need to apologise - at the athlete level some of them would kill each other, but at the end of the day the elite guys are off on a training camp together and the other guys and girls are on the piss together taking the piss out the elite guys and girls.

The officials are always on the piss together .

P.S before I get the threatening letters I do of course exaggerate
P.P.S But only a little

Well thats good to hear. Nothing better then rivalry especially in these type of sports cause it can push others on to get better and beat the opposition.

Skid

I think we would do well to look at whatever New Zealand are doing. They are very similar to us in terms of population base and ethnicity. Their climate is slightly warmer but not hugely different. And they also have their sporting culture dominated by non Olympic Sport (Rugby Union, in their case)

But their Olympic record is far better than ours. They have won 95 medals since London 1948. Their main hauls have come in Athletics, Rowing, Sailing, Canoeing and Equestrian - all of which are Sports in which we could do better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_at_the_Olympics

I can't offer any answers why they do so well, perhaps they have more of a Sports participation culture.

Felexicon

Clareman wrote: »

Spawning from the other thread, Ireland is suffering in track athletics and swimming, while there is a lot that can be done to revive our fortunes in these sports we could also look at other sports that we could try to win medals in.

Field Athletics
We have a great history of throwing events and have some great potential coming through, we could try to improve our standings through this.

Handball
Personally I think this would be an ideal sport for hurlers to get involved in.

Volleyball
This would be perfect for Gaelic footballers (both beach and "normal")

Weightlifting
There wouldn't take a huge investment to get people trained in this.[/b]

Any thoughts/opinions on this, can you think of any other sports that could be tried?

This a bit of a simplistic view on things. If we was just a matter of investment to train power lifters to olympic level we would have done it already.
Don't see were you're getting the transition from hurling to handball. Completely different base skill set needed. The same goes for Volleyball and Gaelic footballers.
We don't really produce enough people with the right build to compete in the throwing disciplines bar possibly javelin.

We should focus on boxing, show jumping,rowing, sailing and cycling.

With these sports it would be easy to implement the elite squad system that has seen so much success for the boxers over the last number of years

Richard Hillman

GB did a thing just after they won the Olympics, searching for men 6'3 and over and women 5'11 for rowing. I think they got 2 gold medals out of it.

Leinster had a similar porgramme last year called route 66, looking for lads 6'6 to play in the second row. Apparently they were impressed by what they found and are a few years away from top level playing standard.

Rowing and indoor volleyball are sports that can be targeted by height searches.

K_1

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

My cousin who is only 14 is mad into Canoeing and Kayaking and I was down the club last year where he trains and I have to say they looked to be pretty impressive between setup and how fast they seemed to be going.

There are 4 or 5 clubs in the country with a good racing set up. However outside of this it is almost entirely recreational, or clubs with one or two racing paddlers. The committees involved are making efforts to promote racing in more recreational clubs, but its a slow process - it takes roughly 2 years just to be able to paddle a racing boat (sprint not slalom).

ormond lad

Felexicon wrote: »

We should focus on boxing, show jumping,rowing, sailing and cycling.

With these sports it would be easy to implement the elite squad system that has seen so much success for the boxers over the last number of years

So basically we should focus on three quite elitist sports, show jumping, sailing and rowing. But at the same time there is plenty of 6ft3/6ft4 lads at 18/19 who stop playing rugby but may be ideal rowers.

Our success in boxing has shown that high levels of funding combined with top top coaching brings success.

Triathlon has had a huge increase in numbers participating and if this continues and numbers increase their is potential to do quite well there

fryup

As a nation with a supposed strong tradition in all things equine don't you think we should be contending more frequently for medals in the equestrian events > showjumping, eventing, dressage etc

and also as an island nation we should by right be doing alot better in all classes of sailing, i know we came close this time around but its very rare we do well in it...a bronze way back in 1980 was the last time we got anything

Clareman

We've a great history of show jumping in Ireland, a lot of our best jumpers were Military people/horses, this didn't always mix well with the Olympics ethos, I think there's a great opportunity for us to go on from here, I found it a bit disappointing that we didn't have a show jumping team in London.

In regards to Sailing, I know we're an island nation with a brilliant boating history, if anyone doubts this look up the "Ta sé ag teacht" ad from Guinness, but there is quite a difference between Sailing because you have to and sport Sailing, economically I think this would be 1 of the best sports we could try to make strides in, but there are a lot of other countries that will be thinking the same.

Mint Sauce

Rugby7's

Maybe the recent progress of the National Side could be transfered or applied to a 7's team.

ormond lad

irish-stew wrote: »

Rugby7's

Maybe the recent progress of the National Side could be transfered or applied to a 7's team.

no unfortunately we dont have a hope of medalling. We dont compete on IRB 7s series and dont look like having a team to compete in the next few years. Medals in 7s will go to the likes of NZ/Fiji/Samoa with England or maybe South Africa, France or Wales the only non pacific countrys likely to be near a medal

Pisco Sour

ormond lad wrote: »

no unfortunately we dont have a hope of medalling. We dont compete on IRB 7s series and dont look like having a team to compete in the next few years. Medals in 7s will go to the likes of NZ/Fiji/Samoa with England or maybe South Africa, France or Wales the only non pacific countrys likely to be near a medal

England, Wales and Scotland will not have teams in Rio. It will be GB&NI, like it is in all Olympic sports.

Clareman

I think Ireland have really missed the boat with 7s but there is a plan in place to get a squad together for Rio I believe.

ormond lad

Pisco Sour wrote: »

England, Wales and Scotland will not have teams in Rio. It will be GB&NI, like it is in all Olympic sports.

Oh yeah, they will, kind of forgot about that but my point still stands. We havent a hope of medalling and we mightnt even qualify for the Olympics 7s

Clareman

You'd imagine that the 7s will between the usual suspects (Fiji, NZ) but depending on draws there could be an opportunity, there aren't that many rugby playing nations out there, imagine a team of Zebo, McFadden, Jones, Carr, Marshall and a few more playing in Rio.

In Rio, professional boxers and no head gear will make it even harder for Ireland to pick up medals in it. Personally, of sports we already compete in, I think Sailing and Field events will be our best opportunities.

byhookorbycrook

Eventing and showjumping,but we need the good horses kept in this country.Modern pentathalon.

Pisco Sour

Clareman wrote: »

You'd imagine that the 7s will between the usual suspects (Fiji, NZ) but depending on draws there could be an opportunity, there aren't that many rugby playing nations out there, imagine a team of Zebo, McFadden, Jones, Carr, Marshall and a few more playing in Rio.

In Rio, professional boxers and no head gear will make it even harder for Ireland to pick up medals in it. Personally, of sports we already compete in, I think Sailing and Field events will be our best opportunities.

Need a huge shift in culture to be competitive in field athletics. The standard in Ireland is absolutely appalling. We had 2 field athletes in London (out of 18 events), one of whom is actually American and performed atrociously. The Irish records for many field events are disgracefully bad (men's triple jump and women's javelin a depressing example). The facilities sadly are not up to scratch and there are not enough coaches with the necessary skills and expertise needed to develop Olympic Champions.

locum-motion

Skid wrote: »

I think we would do well to look at whatever New Zealand are doing. They are very similar to us in terms of population base and ethnicity...

Population size, yes. But if you think that the ethnic make up of the NZ population is comparable to ours, you're very wrong!

Skid

locum-motion wrote: »

Population size, yes. But if you think that the ethnic make up of the NZ population is comparable to ours, you're very wrong!

Obviously New Zealand has significant Maori and Pacific minorities, but I made my point in the the context of a discussion on the Olympics. The majority of their population, and the vast majority of their Olympic Medallists are of European descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand#Ethnicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Olympic_medallists

locum-motion

Skid wrote: »

Obviously New Zealand has significant Maori and Pacific minorities, but I made my point in the the context of a discussion on the Olympics. The majority of their population, and the vast majority of their Olympic Medallists are of European descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand#Ethnicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Olympic_medallists

Lemme get something straight, in case I'm misunderstanding you:

You said that NZ is similar to us, ethnically.
I said they're not.
In defence of your argument, you post a link that says that the NZ population is 67.6% of 'European' ethnicity.

Do you really think that stat supports your argument?





ps. The 'Ethnicity' section of the the results of the 2011 Census in Ireland isn't due to be published til 18/10/12, but I think it's reasonable to assume it will show approx 90% 'European' or even higher.

MrCreosote

locum-motion wrote: »

Lemme get something straight, in case I'm misunderstanding you:

You said that NZ is similar to us, ethnically.
I said they're not.
In defence of your argument, you post a link that says that the NZ population is 67.6% of 'European' ethnicity.

Do you really think that stat supports your argument?

Eh, he did post another link that shows that all bar 5 of the 103 medals won were by people of "NZ European" ethnicity.

So that kind of does support his argument actually.

locum-motion

MrCreosote wrote: »

Eh, he did post another link that shows that all bar 5 of the 103 medals won were by people of "NZ European" ethnicity.

So that kind of does support his argument actually.

I didn't say anything about medal winners. What I am discussing is the assertion that NZ is ethnically similar to Ireland. It is not.

Skid

locum-motion wrote: »

I didn't say anything about medal winners. What I am discussing is the assertion that NZ is ethnically similar to Ireland. It is not.

You are in the wrong forum for a discussion on New Zealand ethnicity. I have explained my comments above and I do not wish to drag this thread any further off topic. I will not be replying to you again.

Silvio.Dante

I saw Annalise Murphy at the Horseshow yesterday. She's a very shy and humble young lady.

But what really surprised me was how Athletic she was. Tall and a very wellbuilt physique...

Dan man

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I saw Annalise Murphy at the Horseshow yesterday. She's a very shy and humble young lady.

But what really surprised me was how Athletic she was. Tall and a very wellbuilt physique...

Her sister Claudine is also attempting to qualify for Rio 2016 in the new Olympic category of kiteboarding.

Silvio.Dante

Dan man wrote: »

Her sister Claudine is also attempting to qualify for Rio 2016 in the new Olympic category of kiteboarding.

Claudine may well have been with Annalise yesterday in fact...:)

Dan man

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Claudine may well have been with Annalise yesterday in fact...:)

The stalking of our 2016 prospects is starting early isn't it Silvio!

locum-motion

Skid wrote: »

You are in the wrong forum for a discussion on New Zealand ethnicity. I have explained my comments above and I do not wish to drag this thread any further off topic. I will not be replying to you again.

You're the one who brought it up, mate, not me!
Personally I was wondering why you brought it up at all.

Dan man

locum-motion wrote: »

You're the one who brought it up, mate, not me!
Personally I was wondering why you brought it up at all.

You made your point, as has Skid....just leave it at that.

Silvio.Dante

Dan man wrote: »

The stalking of our 2016 prospects is starting early isn't it Silvio!

I see it as my duty to ensure the security of out Medal prospects when and where necessary...:D

MrCreosote

A lot of the comparisons with NZ are fair. They don't target sports for medals though in the same way the UK does- funding is aimed at already proven athletes to help them get from elite to medallist.

There are a lot of reasons NZ has a hugely better medal tally, despite rugby being the dominant sport. As usual it's because the interest in these sports at a school and underage level is far higher.

The other thing is that the dominant sport is purely a winter game. Apart from the pros, the rugby season is May-September/October, so kids can do plenty of other sports over the summer. Contrast that with the GAA being mainly a summer sport.

This knocks on for other sports which have their end of season in April/May like school rowing and triathlon. The schools rowing champs are a big weeklong event, reported in the papers every day. The schools triathlon gets hundreds of competitors every year. The cross country and T&F champs are prestigious events to win.Surf lifesaving is huge-that's where all the kayakers come from (and the water temp is only a couple of degrees warmer than Ireland). None of them coincide or conflict with the rugby season. And rugby is easily as big as gaelic games in Ireland.

So at age 18, there's already the next group of eager athletes ready to enter the high-performance programmes in lots of different sports. That's where the medals come from.

And that's where Ireland should put the money if we want medals- schools, grassroots etc. Forget about picking and focussing on one event like the hammer or whatever.

Clareman

Great post re:NZ setup, another thing that they do that should be encouraged in all countries is that children are put into groups depending on their size rather than their ages, this means that everyone gets to learn the skills rather than just rely on size (which evens out come adulthood normally), this also has the knock on effect that more people are kept interested & playing sport for longer.

The_Kew_Tour

Clareman wrote: »

Great post re:NZ setup, another thing that they do that should be encouraged in all countries is that children are put into groups depending on their size rather than their ages, this means that everyone gets to learn the skills rather than just rely on size (which evens out come adulthood normally), this also has the knock on effect that more people are kept interested & playing sport for longer.

good idea imo.

Cardinal Richelieu

Clareman wrote: »

We've a great history of show jumping in Ireland, a lot of our best jumpers were Military people/horses, this didn't always mix well with the Olympics ethos, I think there's a great opportunity for us to go on from here, I found it a bit disappointing that we didn't have a show jumping team in London.

Great history only one bronze medal do. Mention the miltary show jumping team in the Military forum here and you might earn a lifetime ban from the forum:D A waste of DF resources, should really be attached to the Dept of Agriculture since its primary role is the promotion of the Irish Horse Breeding Industry. AFAIK they don't even do military parades. I would have thought the military tied in well with the original Olympic ethos considering that it was a display of military prowess. The USA alone had 16 members of the miltary representing them in London. I suspect that every modern Olympics had at least 1 serving member of military winning a medal.

Clareman wrote: »

In regards to Sailing, I know we're an island nation with a brilliant boating history, if anyone doubts this look up the "Ta sé ag teacht" ad from Guinness, but there is quite a difference between Sailing because you have to and sport Sailing, economically I think this would be 1 of the best sports we could try to make strides in, but there are a lot of other countries that will be thinking the same.

The downside of sailing is the high logistics costs of supporting an Irish team. Each sailor/team needs two boats shipped around the world to the various race venues. The UK spent £17,194,000 over the 2006-9 period on its sailing team.

feargale

Clareman wrote: »

In Rio, professional boxers and no head gear will make it even harder for Ireland to pick up medals in it.

True, and furthermore there is talk of 9×3 minute rounds. I heard some genius on radio say, " oh good, we'll see blood." Sport can injure, but injury ought not to be its objective. More to the point, IMO these proposed innovations will be the beginning and the end of olympic boxing. Professional boxing is banned in many countries. Why take head gear out of the men's game and leave it in the women's game ? It's either an effective safety device or not.

feargale

Clareman wrote: »

We have a great history of throwing events and have some great potential coming through, we could try to improve our standing.

I'm not so sure. That was then.

feargale

Clareman wrote: »

VolleyballThis would be perfect for Gaelic footballers (both beach and "normal")

I'm tempted to ask do you mean beach gaelic footballers or normal ones. Basketball started here in the 1920s and took off in the 40s, thanks mainly to the army. Kerry became a stronghold, largely because gaelic footballers played it in the wintertime. Liam McHale is the only co. footballer plus international basketballer I know of. But it might not suit Ireland. Alot of Irish, especially in the west, are small and stocky. Some say they were washed in from the Armada, or the Deluge or something !

feargale

Clareman wrote: »

HandballPersonally I think this would be an ideal sport for hurlers to get involved in.

Some years ago in Holland I put my gaelic football skills to good use playing handball and got on the local team. All was fine until they discovered I couldn't throw the ball. I was like a brilliant water polo player who couldn't swim ! You might have better luck with cricket bowlers. A few hurlers, such as Martin Storey and Sham Spellissy of old have successfully switched from hurling to hockey or combined the two. Would you have better luck there? There must be many good hurlers in Kilkenny now, frustrated at their inability to get intercounty recognition. But dont upset the GAA.They are not anti-Olympic, in fact, most of our early Olympians were GAA men.

feargale

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I don't have time now but I like where you're coming from on the Handball...:)

List of countries that didn't participate in 2012 European Handball championships : Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ireland, Kosovo, Liechtenstein, Malta, Monaco, San Marino. I see merit in that it is an indoor sport, and we need to focus on easily organised indoor sports to cover winter when GAA and to some extent soccer are less active. However since in handball we would be crawling hurriedly to the starting line while everybody else is already lined up there, I wonder if there are better options.