Pussy Riot

Biggins

If anyone wants to bother with the actual facts and know why exactly Putin is now looking, favouring and using the Russian Orthodox church for his own ends, they just need to do their research instead of thinking what they see on the surface, by quick glance, is just true.

Some quick points to mull over:

* The Russian Orthodox Church—nostalgic for the leading position it had held in Russian society before the Bolsheviks—soon pushed for a law to restrict, if not ban, the activities of foreign religious workers and of non-orthodox Christians (as well as dissident Orthodox groups).

* The 1997 Religion Law discriminates among religions and violates Russia’s international commitments under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It restricts the rights, powers and privileges of smaller, or newer, or foreign religious communities, while giving special status to Russia’s "traditional" religions— primarily Russian Orthodoxy, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. It also creates an onerous and intrusive registration process

* Upon taking office this spring, Putin quietly signed a significant and double-edged amendment to the 1997 law. On the positive side, he extended to Dec. 31 of this year the deadline by which religious groups must register with officials. On the negative side, however, he required that unregistered groups be "liquidated" after that date.

* Vladimir Putin previously threatened the "liquidation" of thousands of religious groups who did not 'register' with his government.

You tow his religious line or your done for!

http://religiousfreedom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401&Itemid=399

The band was protesting AGAINST Putin and his insertion into religious affairs.
They were protesting for a more freedoms in relation to religion within Russia - religions without governmental/Putin interference.

"Religious Hatred" my arse.
They were standing up for religions by protesting - against Putin and nothing else except government insertions!

---

Another point to ponder - does anyone seriously think the likes of Madonna, Björk and Sir Paul McCartney are going to stand-up for a group of people that are espousing "religious hatred" - seriously?

Wake up people and see the bigger picture!
Stop just swallowing the stupid Official Russian government spiel!

Jimoslimos

Biggins wrote: »

* Upon taking office this spring, Putin quietly signed a significant and double-edged amendment to the 1997 law. On the positive side, he extended to Dec. 31 of this year the deadline by which religious groups must register with officials. On the negative side, however, he required that unregistered groups be "liquidated" after that date.

* Vladimir Putin previously threatened the "liquidation" of thousands of religious groups who did not 'register' with his government.
You tow his religious line or your done for!

I don't think the idea of enforcing registration of religious groups is necessarily a bad thing. Especially since many of these groups operate and benefit from public goodwill and sizeable tax breaks akin to most charities.

Morlar

Biggins wrote: »

If anyone wants to bother with the actual facts and know why exactly Putin is now looking, favouring and using the Russian Orthodox church for his own ends, they just need to do their research instead of thinking what they see on the surface, by quick glance, is just true.

Some quick points to mull over:

* The Russian Orthodox Church—nostalgic for the leading position it had held in Russian society before the Bolsheviks—soon pushed for a law to restrict, if not ban, the activities of foreign religious workers and of non-orthodox Christians (as well as dissident Orthodox groups).

* The 1997 Religion Law discriminates among religions and violates Russia’s international commitments under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It restricts the rights, powers and privileges of smaller, or newer, or foreign religious communities, while giving special status to Russia’s "traditional" religions— primarily Russian Orthodoxy, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism. It also creates an onerous and intrusive registration process

* Upon taking office this spring, Putin quietly signed a significant and double-edged amendment to the 1997 law. On the positive side, he extended to Dec. 31 of this year the deadline by which religious groups must register with officials. On the negative side, however, he required that unregistered groups be "liquidated" after that date.

* Vladimir Putin previously threatened the "liquidation" of thousands of religious groups who did not 'register' with his government.
You tow his religious line or your done for!

http://religiousfreedom.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401&Itemid=399

The band was protesting AGAINST Putin and his insertion into religious affairs.
They were protesting for a more freedoms in relation to religion within Russia - religions without governmental/Putin interference.

That website is run 'Dan Fefferman, President, International Coalition for Religious Freedom'. = "Daniel G. Fefferman (known as Dan Fefferman) is a prominent member of the Unification Church of the United States, a branch of the international Unification Church, founded by Sun Myung Moon in South Korea in 1954."

Not exactly my idea of a reliable, impartial, trustworthy source. Notwithstanding the fact that all of the above is irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

That website is run 'Dan Fefferman, President, International Coalition for Religious Freedom'. = "Daniel G. Fefferman (known as Dan Fefferman) is a prominent member of the Unification Church of the United States, a branch of the international Unification Church, founded by Sun Myung Moon in South Korea in 1954."

Not exactly my idea of a reliable, impartial, trustworthy source. Notwithstanding the fact that all of the above is irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

There are many sites that state the same news facts.

Morlar

Biggins wrote: »

There are many sites that state the same news facts.

I think you are confusing facts with opinions or beliefs / views. There are also different opinions, beliefs and views hence putin's widespread support in Russia.

Biggins

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I don't think the idea of enforcing registration of religious groups is necessarily a bad thing. Especially since many of these groups operate and benefit from public goodwill and sizeable tax breaks akin to most charities.

Putin is ONLY allowing religions that are (a) so big that they cannot be denied while (b) denying others that are more Russia based because they do not tow the line that Putin wishes.

Its not enough that Putin wishes to be rid of such opposition leaders like Alexey Navalny and organisations that espouse more freedoms for the Russian people, Putin now wishes to control the religions also within his borders.

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

I think you are confusing facts with opinions or beliefs / views. There are also different opinions, beliefs and views hence putin's widespread support in Russia.

There is those that vote for Putin - why they vote for him is another question!

Just as FG here gained not because some say, they were better than FF and/or Enda kenny was/is the best man.

I think your mixing "support" for Putin with people also maybe voting for him because there was little alternative (thanks in part via Putin and his cohorts many efforts and methods in killing off any possible viable opposition!)

brimal

They just got their sentence.

They each got 2 years.

Disgrace.

Colmustard

brimal wrote: »

They just got their sentence.

They each got 2 years.

Disgrace.

That is rough and very out of proportion to the said crime.

Plus it will be a Russian prison famed for their luxury and respect for human right (not fukcen total holes in the earth and hells the worse prisons in the world).

Morlar

Biggins wrote: »

There is those that vote for Putin - why they vote for him is another question!

Just as FG here gained not because some say, they were better than FF and/or Enda kenny was/is the best man.

I think your mixing "support" for Putin with people also maybe voting for him because there was little alternative (thanks in part via Putin and his cohorts many efforts and methods in killing off any possible viable opposition!)

That's not really your call to make, I'd apply that to foreign based NGO's who pump funding into the domestic Russian Political scene with a view to interfere with their internal matters. I'd recommend this for some light reading, it's intended to be critical but I would fully support Putin on this one at least

New Legislation is a Setback for Russian NGOs
August 2, 2012 by eJP
Filed under Life in the FSU Countries, Opinion / Letters
Leave a Comment

by Polina Philippova

Recently, and in great haste, the Russian Parliament adopted a new piece of legislation with a name that would have been appropriate for cold war times: ‘On regulation of activities of the NGOs, which fulfill the functions of “foreign agents”’. Sadly, the name adequately reflects the essence of the law, which presents the biggest threat that the not-for-profit sector has faced in the last 20 years.

The law requires that all NGOs that have any foreign funding and ‘participate in political activities on the territory of the Russian Federation’ get registered in a special registry with the Ministry of Justice. ‘An NGO is recognized as one … if it participates in the organization and implementation of political activities which aim to influence decisions of state authorities, their policy, as well as in the formation of public opinion …’

These NGOs, which get voluntarily registered, will have to include this newly acquired status of a ‘foreign agent’ in all their documents, publications and PR materials. There are quite a few other responsibilities that these foreign agents have to fulfill in order to comply with the law. Among other things, they will have to submit reports on their activities quarterly (currently it is once a year) and will undergo an annual audit (now compulsory only for foundations).

The fate of those NGOs that do not register is even more exciting – their activities can be suspended by authorities for up to 6 months and their bank accounts can be frozen. An NGO is provided with the right to appeal to a court to overrule this suspension and prove that it has not been engaged in ‘political activities’ using foreign money. This task seems to be impossible, and not only because of the notorious corruption of Russian courts. The problem is that the definitions of ‘political activities’ and ‘foreign money’ are drawn so broadly that almost anything can fall under them.

In fact, this is the first time that the term ‘political activities’ has been defined in Russia at all. Apparently, any attempt to influence public opinion or the decisions of authorities is a political activity. An example of such an activity was presented in between the first and the final hearings of this piece of legislation, when a great number of public organizations – many of which have some foreign grants – publicly expressed their strong concern that this law would damage the not-for-profit sector in Russia, and that it contradicts the Russian constitution. Obviously, they were trying to influence both the decision-making process and public opinion at the same time! If the law had been adopted by then, they all would have been fined, shut down or obliged to wear the label of a foreign agent for all honest people to know that they operate in the interests of some alien and presumably hostile states.

In fairness there were some changes introduced into the draft in between two readings. Religious, municipal and charitable organizations have been excluded, as have NGOs that work in the fields of culture, healthcare and some other innocent topics. However, education is not in this list and I do not think this is an accidental omission.

In the global economy, the notion of ‘foreign money’ also leaves lots of space for interpretation. If a Russian firm trades both domestically and internationally or buys Russian or foreign bonds and equities, it can be argued whether its donation to a suspicious NGO is foreign or domestic.

The idea behind this law is quite transparent – there is a noose hung above all organizations and as long as they wish to continue their operations they should very carefully censor each step they take, and make sure they do not interfere with the state or its individual representatives.

Russian legislators claim that this law is identical to a certain piece of legislation in the USA. In fact, this is not exactly correct. The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) is a US law passed in 1938 requiring that agents representing the interests of foreign powers in a ‘political or quasi-political capacity’ disclose their relationship with the foreign government and information about related activities and finances. The act was passed in response to German propaganda in the lead-up to World War II. It was used in 23 criminal cases during the war. In 1966 the Act was amended and narrowed to emphasize agents actually working with foreign powers who sought economic or political advantage by influencing governmental decision-making. This increased the government’s burden of proof and there have been no successful implementations since then.

The Russian piece of legislation is quite consistent with a number of laws that have been adopted very recently and which seriously infringe basic human rights guaranteed by the Russian constitution – freedom of speech (internet law, libel/defamation law), freedom of assembly (law on meetings) etc. The Russian authorities have laid another brick in the wall, which is meant to protect them from any public control or criticism by civil society institutes. The stronger the public outcry against the draft of this law, the faster legislators worked to adopt it.

Apparently, a desire to shut down a number of Russian NGOs was so strong that the legislators totally ignored the risks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Many NGOs that represent different vulnerable groups will think twice now before voicing the problems of their target audiences (for example, in efforts to influence state policy) or apply for foreign financing.

Well, we all know that any challenge is an opportunity. There is only one bright spot in this grim picture – this threat might help the not-for-profit sector of Russia to consolidate and to learn how to raise funds among the Russian middle class, which so far largely donates only to dying children. Russian NGOs have to convince the general public that their efforts to build a mature civil society and to establish the rule of law in Russia affect every person’s individual well-being. It is a difficult task but it has to be done.

Polina Philippova is director of programmes and donor relations for CAF Russia.

Source: http://ejewishphilanthropy.com/new-legislation-is-a-setback-for-russian-ngos/

He is not popular with billionaire oligarchs or foreign interests but he's the legitimate Russian choice for President & I have not seen anything that would cause me to to question their choice.

Biggins

brimal wrote: »

They just got their sentence.

They each got 2 years.

Disgrace.

I suspect that they will be out before that.

Gracious glorious Putin will personally step in and see that they are released early.
He will do so, to show the world he believes that while they were supposedly wrong, he is a nice man and will let them off light because his new Russia under his leadership is a place of freedom, peace and love for all.

...And it will all be true of course!


The fact (and Putin I suspect, knows it) is that longer they are imprisoned, they are and will remain a rally cry for protesters the world over, including at home.
They imprisonment will enrage even more.
The quicker they are released, the less the ire against Putin.

Don't expect them to serve the two full years.

dr strangelove

Two years each, eh?
So Putin's request that they be treated "not too harshly" translates into two years in jail.
Nice

brimal

Biggins wrote: »

I suspect that they will be out before that.

Gracious glorious Putin will personally step in and see that they are released early.
He will do so, to show the world he believes that while they were supposedly wrong, he is a nice man and will let them off light because his new Russia under his leadership is a place of freedom, peace and love for all.

...And it will all be true of course!


The fact (and Putin I suspect, knows it) is that longer they are imprisoned, they are and will remain a rally cry for protesters the world over, including at home.
They imprisonment will enrage even more.
The quicker they are released, the less the ire against Putin.

Don't expect them to serve the two full years.

Well the sentence starts from when they were detained. I think that is about 5 months knocked off the sentence.

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

...He is not popular with billionaire oligarchs or foreign interests but he's the legitimate Russian choice for President & I have not seen anything that would cause me to to question their choice.

He was the legal choice, that still don't make him the right thing for Russia - just as we are stuck here at home with a bunch of liars, u-turn artists and they too were elected legally.
Legally elected does not mean they should not be questioned or why they were selected to such a position, questioned.

Biggins

brimal wrote: »

Well the sentence starts from when they were detained. I think that is about 5 months knocked off the sentence.

Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

...And the more Russia is possible being seen to 'do bad', the more other states will say "Don't you dare lecture to us - look at what what your doing at home yourself!"

kunst nugget

brimal wrote: »

They just got their sentence.

They each got 2 years.

Disgrace.

I think the two plain ones should do an extra year each and let the good looking one out now.

Morlar

Biggins wrote: »

Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

...And the more Russia is possible being seen to 'do bad', the more other states will say "Don't you dare lecture to us - look at what what your doing at home yourself!"

I think you need to open your eyes a little & also try to remember the absolute rape of that country under the foreign supported oligarchs (whom Putin has managed to stand up to)

http://rt.com/politics/russia-ngo-usa-funding-101/

West's battle for Russian ‘hearts and minds’: NGOs on steroids (Op-Ed)

Published: 13 July, 2012, 13:35
Edited: 13 July, 2012, 13:35

The Russian Duma has just passed amendments to the Russian NGO law.

Russian NGOs receiving foreign funding will now have to register at the Ministry of Justice as an “NGO carrying out functions as a foreign agent”, make public their sources of funding by marking it on the materials they distribute, and report semi-annually to the Ministry of Justice on their activities.

This law, a great majority of Russians believe, is long overdue. In the past 25 years, billions of dollars have been pouring into Russia from the US State Department and its subsidiary agencies like the US Agency for International Development (USAID – nearly $3 billion alone), as well as from so-called “private foundations” like the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House, and George Soros’s Open Society Institute. All of these institutions, judging by their activities and leadership’s biographies, have important ties to the US State Department, the intelligence community, Cold War and the “color revolutions”.

The goal of all this money was not to express Washington’s generous love of Russia, its culture or its people. In addition to building a loyal infrastructure, it aimed at “winning hearts and minds” – and along the way oil, gas, and military capacity. It has all been about “opening” – “open society”, “open economy”, “open Russia”, “open government” – open for brainwashing, economic plunder, for hijacking Russia’s domestic and foreign policies.

Conquest by war is always an option for the US, as we have seen in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, and now in Syria. But “victory without war” is cheaper and more effective, as the collapse of Soviet Union has tragically shown.

What did Western funding do to the Russian civil society while pursuing military objectives by “peaceful means”? Might it have accidentally contributed to building democracy in Russia? The word “democracy” here is understood in its original sense, as government of the people for the people, not in Washington’s interpretation as a loyal regime subservient to US interest.

In fact, the multibillions of Western funding have profoundly distorted Russian civil society. A marginal pro-American group of NGOs that was pumped up with US dollars like a bodybuilder with steroids -it has gained much muscle and shine. Those few Russians willing to serve foreign interests were provided nice offices, comfortable salaries, printing presses, training, publicity, and political and organizing technology which gave them far more capacity, visibility, and influence that they could possibly have had on their own. Money and spin are the only means to promote unpopular ideas, alien to national interests.

On the other side is the silent majority of people who is squeezed out of the public space. In Western, and also in Russian media, civil society turns out to be represented by Ludmila Alekseyeva (The Helsinki Group), Boris Nemtsov and Gary Kasparov, rather than by a worker from the Urals, teacher from Novosibirsk or a farmer from Krasnodar Region.

Moreover, Russian NGOs not addicted to Western funding are put under serious pressure from Western funders and their local outlets to join the club. Once the Russian organization shows its effectiveness, its leadership receives a call from US Embassy, and an invitation to visit. Money offers follow shortly. If the Russian NGO dares to refuse the bait, one or several mirror organizations are created that, with massive funding and publicity, hijack the subject, fill it out with its agenda and occupy the field.

For projects in education, for example, suddenly it will be all Anglo-Saxon models and values. For projects fighting abuse by the police, this fight will be selective and serving to compile incriminatory evidence on loyal officials designed to create hostility to the government in general, rather than truly fighting these intolerable practices. In the field of business associations, one Russian NGO was denounced by a major US-allied corporation for “excessively defending the rights of domestic producers”.

No, Western funding does not contribute to strengthening Russian democracy. It only extends the battle field for pro-American forces against patriotic forces. Like steroids, Western funding is injected in the weaker spots of the targeted civil society. Like steroids, it is addictive. Like steroids, it corrupts the mind and body of the political organism. It transforms the target nation into a sick and dependent collaborating entity deprived of independent will, mind, and heart.

Russia and other countries subject to Western funding infusions must take charge of their domestic problems. Building a patriotic civil society cannot be outsourced. Democratic processes and national security cannot be outsourced – all the more so to openly hostile governments.

These NGO amendments, by correcting an evident gap in our laws, take a major step in leveling the playing field. But this step needs to be followed by further measures that strengthen our national civil societies.

­Veronika Krasheninnikova, Director General of the Institute for Foreign Policy Research and Initiatives in Moscow, for RT

­The statements, views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

Dannyriver

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I don't remember the rubbe bandits every doing a protest song or challenging anything?

Perhaps you should look them up, every song they ve ever done is a protest song in one shape or another

dr strangelove

Biggins wrote: »

Putin and his government will want them to fade into obscurity as quick as possible.
The more they are in jail, the more the media spotlight is on Russia and it government antics.

Which, hopefully, will empower others to follow in PussyRiot's footsteps......

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

I think you need to open your eyes a little & also try to remember the absolute rape of that country under the foreign supported oligarchs (whom Putin has managed to stand up to)

http://rt.com/politics/russia-ngo-usa-funding-101/

America and others offered money to Putins country - that cannot be disputed.
Nor can the reasoning that they were doing it to suit their own agenda.

However I'm sure the money was accepted by those within Russian borders, fully aware of this - I give the Russian government some credit for not being blind or stupid.
...And they accepted the money with whatever reasoning came with it.

The fact that Putin has been seen by some as standing up to foreign supported oligarchs - an image possibly also pushed by his own people too in order to win over hearts and minds (what politician would not do similar?) - the fact is that, regardless of whom Putin might have stood up to if they were bad, does not automatically make him a saint or good for his country either by default in opposition.

Biggins

dr strangelove wrote: »

Which, hopefully, will empower others to follow in PussyRiot's footsteps......

Amen.

dr strangelove

CucaFace wrote: »

That Nadezhda Tolokonnikova is so hot.

Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........

Colmustard

dr strangelove wrote: »

Two years each, eh?
So Putin's request that they be treated "not too harshly" translates into two years in jail.
Nice

Knowing Putin he will have them released early and by doing so he will make a PR killing, while sending out the message I am the master here.

He is truly one of the worlds most dangerous men.

Red Crow

They are the rubber bandits duh

Cassidy28

dr strangelove wrote: »

Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........

She's got great lips

Morlar

Colmustard wrote: »

Knowing Putin he will have them released early and by doing so he will make a PR killing, while sending out the message I am the master here.

He is truly one of the worlds most dangerous men.

Who has spoken out against just about every single act of US-hawk led aggression and interference in 'other countries business' that I can think of in recent years. Has stood up to foreign interference in Georgie/South Ossetia, fought a war against islamists within his own country and in my opinion is just about the only element keeping the USA / EU & Britain even remotely honest & without that counterweight I hate to think where things would be in the world today.

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

Who has spoken out against just about every single act of US-hawk led aggression and interference in 'other countries business' that I can think of in recent years. Has stood up to foreign interference in Georgie/South Ossetia, fought a war against islamists within his own country and in my opinion is just about the only element keeping the USA / EU & Britain even remotely honest & without that counterweight I hate to think where things would be in the world today.

There is much truth in what you say above - however at home, his actions of possible election stealing, crushing freedoms, political and personal equally allow himself to be open to equal criticism of possible unjust actions and/or having an agenda to more suit his personal needs/survival rather than being just good for the state.
...And thats putting it mildly.

There is no saints on either side.

RDM_83 again

I really really hate this sort of PopArt/Spirit of 1968 style protest and to be honest it will probably fade the same way, the movements that made a difference in the long term weren't a bunches of artists and posers (and btw I'm not an old man!), these sort of protests and actions just alienate people and trivialize the important issues. 2 years is a bit harsh but we don;t have to look to far too see justice systems over reacting look at the UK riots (not comparing them just giving an example of judicial over reaction)

dr strangelove wrote: »

Ooops, just realised this is After Hours:

Yeah, SHE doesn't need a balaclava.........

Yes as it is after hours I'l pass on a 'tit bit' I saw in a Guardian article- article seems safe for work btw as the picture isn;t displaying MODS remove this if it breaks the porn linking rule

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****_for_the_heir_Puppy_Bear!

censor breaking link (damn CommieFacists) ****=fcuk

Colmustard

This is making headline news worldwide, its the lead story on the BeeB Sky and RTE I think Putin may have shot himself in the foot and started a new era of the Soviet dissidents.

I do not necessarily agree with what they did, but at the end of the day they are only a fukcen rock band and to what I have seen not even a good one.

I was watching a doco Punk Britannia (brilliant catch it if you can) the sex pistols and Malcoln Mc Claren hired a boat and sang their version of God save the Queen for the jubilee celebrations which was outrageous, I think all they got was a night in the slammer.

smokedeels

The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

"Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.

Colmustard

smokedeels wrote: »

The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

"Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.

WOW
A justice system is more concerned with the rule and word of the law. It is not for a judge to rewrire the law, just enforce the legal tenets.

So if that is written into russian law, that is the way it is. But he really did not have to send them down for 2 years. A fine and community service would have been sufficient punishment IMO.

smokedeels

Colmustard wrote: »

WOW
A justice system is more concerned with the rule and word of the law. It is not for a judge to rewrire the law, just enforce the legal tenets.

So if that is written into russian law, that is the way it is. But he really did not have to send them down for 2 years. A fine and community service would have been sufficient punishment IMO.

It's the word of the law and its application here that bothers me, not the dude reading it out.

Colmustard

I fancy one of those Pussy Riots, well I fancy the 3 of them but one in particular.

stateofflux

true punk rock - respect. 3 girls got more balls than almost any other band on the planet

Show Time

Two years will teach them some respect for the law.

RedRightHand

smokedeels wrote: »

The statement from the Judge is the real kicker for me. He has essentially used the fact that the Orthodox Church does not view men and women as equal as a weight AGAINST Pussy Riot.

"Orthodox Christianity, and Catholic Christianity and other denominations do not agree with feminism and their own values are not inline with feminists" therefore the demonstration constituted "hatred" as it took place inside a cathedral.

You'd think a justice system would be concerned more equality than protecting organisations who by his admission are against it.

The judge is a woman. Google translator refers to her as 'Judge Mary Cheese'.

I presume the prosecution's point was that as feminists they were ridiculing the Church's opposing views. It may be a stretch to call that hatred but there was no other way of sending the hussies down. An Irish style blasphemy law would have given them more options.

The Russians aren't too keen on 'equality'. They tried it once when it was called communism.

Wacker The Attacker

Typical women.

They never know when to shut up

Colmustard

I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.

RDM_83 again

Colmustard wrote: »

I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.

You might be forgiven for thinking its not the case but Putin is pretty popular (just probably not with the 'right' people) even with eroded support in the last year he still has 50% approval and would be set to win election. Also in a poll most of russians found that

6% had sympathy with the women
51% said they found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility
the rest were unable to say or were indifferent


http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-08-17/russians-irritated-or-indifferent-to-pussy-riot-case/

RedRightHand

Colmustard wrote: »

I wonder what is the position of the Orthodox Church, surely being a modern Christian based church they would not agree with this sentence.

Why are they allying themselves with an unpopular government. That does not seem sensible.

The ROC has been criticized for not showing forgiveness. They responded that blasphemy against God(as opposed to insulting believers) is so serious that repentance should be clear and unambiguous. They've issued a statement tonight(http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120817/175283026.html) asking the state to show mercy which is the furthest they've moved to looking for a resolution.

Orthodox Christianity has always been close to nationalism(this is a reason why Catholic Christians can be grateful for the pope being in Rome). The leadership were never going to abandon Putin after he brought stability to the country and increased the acceptance of the Church in public life.

I just love the attempt to not smile every time a newscaster says "Pussy Riot" so the whole episode has been worthwhile IMO.

Biggins

RDM_83 again wrote: »

6% had sympathy with the women
51% said they found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility
the rest were unable to say or were indifferent

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-08-17/russians-irritated-or-indifferent-to-pussy-riot-case/

Considering TV in Russia and whats only allowed to be broadcast that can only be the government view/spin, those numbers if true would not surprise me.

If the Russian people are only mainly given one spinned side of an event, it would come then as not further shock to read that their views might be different from those which might see a larger picture and are aware of other possible additional facts.

Colmustard

I am looking at more about this story, it seems that there has been worse human rights abuses in Russia under putin such as human right lawyers and opposition journalists have been murdered. But this seems to have caught the worlds attention. I think it maybe the three young women defendants held with-in the glass cage has all the hallmarks of the old soviet show trials.

But these at least are still alive, the show trial victims of old never made it back to freedom.

Procrastastudy

Colmustard wrote: »

I am looking at more about this story, it seems that there has been worse human rights abuses in Russia under putin such as human right lawyers and opposition journalists have been murdered. But this seems to have caught the worlds attention. I think it maybe the three young women defendants held with-in the glass cage has all the hallmarks of the old soviet show trials.

But these at least are still alive, the show trial victims of old never made it back to freedom.

To be fair the glass cages are pretty common - the old Bailey uses something similar.

Colmustard

Procrastastudy wrote: »

To be fair the glass cages are pretty common - the old Bailey uses something similar.

They just didn't seem to belong there, I would associate them with mafia or terrorists. But I take your point.

Procrastastudy

Colmustard wrote: »

They just didn't seem to belong there, I would associate them with mafia or terrorists. But I take your point.

Dont get me wrong - the thing looked like a farce

jill_valentine

Russia is getting scarier and scarier.

Biggins

According to The Times (England) tonight, the women will probably serve 14 months in prison. They have already spent five months in detention and, under Russian law, double this amount can be counted against their sentence.

Excerpts:

Tolokonnikova, who has a daughter aged 4, burst into laughter when the judge quoted from a psychologist’s report that concluded she suffered from a personality disorder because of her “active stance on social issues”.

Lawyers for the women said they would appeal against the convictions immediately. Mark Feigin, one of the defence team, said: “Under no circumstances will the girls ask for a pardon [from Putin]. They will not beg and humiliate themselves before such a bastard.”

More than 50 people were arrested outside the court as anger erupted among the crowd, who chanted “Free Pussy Riot” and “Putin is a thief”.
Among those detained were Sergei Udaltsov, the Left Front activist, and Garry Kasparov, the former chess champion and Kremlin critic. Police repeatedly plunged into the crowds to drag away anyone who held up a placard in support of the accused.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3511837.ece

twogunkid

Biggins wrote: »

According to The Times (England) tonight, the women will probably serve 14 months in prison. They have already spent five months in detention and, under Russian law, double this amount can be counted against their sentence.
Excerpts:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3511837.ece[/Q

Would concerned readers consider a mailing campaign to Mary Robinson, Michael D Higgins , Maty Lou , and all the regular do gooders deemed relevant

Also petition Enda to make these right thinking girls free women of Dublin

GULAG is still alive

Toby Take a Bow

RedRightHand wrote: »

The Russians aren't too keen on 'equality'. They tried it once when it was called communism.

Support for the communists doubled in the last election. Granted it's only at 20% support, but it's growing, and this is despite people still being around who would've witnessed the effects of Stalin as well as what is essentially a one-party state who will do everything in its power to crush the opposition.