Household charge and renting

**Timbuk2**

We have paid deposit on a house, and upon reading the Tenancy Agreement, have asked landlord to clarify on a particular clause which says that the tenant is required "to pay all taxes, charges or rates, if any, as may be levied or apportioned in respect of the dwelling and / or the occupier thereof;"

I wanted to know if this included the Household Charge and NPPR. The landlord got back (by email) to say that he has provided for the current Household Charge and the current NPPR, but any increase in the household charge would be our responsibility (but NPPR would remain his responsibility).

This can't be right, can it?

djimi

Do not agree to this clause. As as tenant these charges are not your responsibility. It should all be included in the rent. No way I would agree to this.

**Timbuk2**

Thanks. I can find plenty of links on the internet about the household charge being the landlord's responsibility, but I can't find websites that say specifically that tenants aren't liable for increases. I wonder if there was a decrease in the charge would he pass it on to us?

As household charge is expected to increase in December's budget, this is worrying.

What should we do next? Ask him to change the contract before we sign it? And if we were to sign it, as it is now, could we still refuse to pay the household charge later down the line, or would the fact that we've signed a contract (therefore agreed to his terms), void our rights in this regard?

djimi

If you sign it then you are agreeing to it.

The reality is that all such charges (with the possible exception of utilities) should be included in the monthly rent. The rent can only be reviewed once in a 12 month period. What this guy is trying to do is pull a fast one to cover his ass for any charge that is involved in renting his house, and by agreeing to it you are basically agreeing to pay an unspecified amount over the course of the lease.

Tell him to get stuffed and to pay his own charges; insist that the clause gets removed from the lease before you sign anything.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

If you sign it then you are agreeing to it.

The reality is that all such charges (with the possible exception of utilities) should be included in the monthly rent. The rent can only be reviewed once in a 12 month period. What this guy is trying to do is pull a fast one to cover his ass for any charge that is involved in renting his house, and by agreeing to it you are basically agreeing to pay an unspecified amount over the course of the lease.

Tell him to get stuffed and to pay his own charges; insist that the clause gets removed from the lease before you sign anything.

In Germany (that land of tenant rights, often touted as the example to follow) such charges are passed on in full to the tenant.

I am an owner occupier here but my "management fees" are carefully broken down and marked as either "can pass on to tenant" or "cannot pass on to tenant" (the law says what can and can't be passed straight on). Things like bin and water charges are passed straight on to the tenant when they are increased (have never seen a decrease) as they are beyond the landlord's control and set by local government and are actually used by the occupier, not the landlord.

In the UK the tenant is also responsible for their Council Tax (can easily be over a grand a year) as the charge goes towards local services (which the household charge also goes towards).

It'll become the norm in the RoI as well for all such charges to be borne by the user/tenant IMO. The rent would then be adjusted to reflect the other charges, as determined by the market.

Webster29

Whatever your landlord thinks it says, his explanation is not actually what the clause says. It should at least be clear. If you are to be responsible for any increases, and you agree this is acceptable, it should say so. But I would change it so that it says you are responsible for any taxes charged in respect of the occupancy of the dwelling, not the dwelling itself.

sunnysoutheast

djimi wrote: »

If you sign it then you are agreeing to it.

The reality is that all such charges (with the possible exception of utilities) should be included in the monthly rent. The rent can only be reviewed once in a 12 month period. What this guy is trying to do is pull a fast one to cover his ass for any charge that is involved in renting his house, and by agreeing to it you are basically agreeing to pay an unspecified amount over the course of the lease.

Tell him to get stuffed and to pay his own charges; insist that the clause gets removed from the lease before you sign anything.

Not sure why you say "...possible exception of utilities". The tenant pays electricity, gas, phone/BB and refuse charges on the consumer pays principle.

The landlord pays the NPPR and, most likely at present, the flat-rate Household Charge. As the latter is expected to rise significantly with the move to local charges for local services, this will probably migrate to being the tenant's responsibility in due course, although for a transitional period it will probably be disguised via increased rent if the local market can bear it. Same with the upcoming water and septic tank charges.

Note that I'm staying away from the entire topic of whether these charges are justified, that's a debate for another forum.

SSE

**Timbuk2**

Thanks for the answers.

A slightly related question so I'll put it here too - what about the incoming property tax - will it also be solely the responsibility of the landlord, or is it possibly something that tenants will have to pay? It's just not something I would have budgeted for at all as a prospective tenant (in South Dublin!)

djimi

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Not sure why you say "...possible exception of utilities". The tenant pays electricity, gas, phone/BB and refuse charges on the consumer pays principle.

Sorry, by that I meant things like refuse, which is often included in the rent but sometimes not. Obviously things like electric, gas, phone, BB, TV etc are the responsibility of the tenant.

djimi

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Thanks for the answers.

A slightly related question so I'll put it here too - what about the incoming property tax - will it also be solely the responsibility of the landlord, or is it possibly something that tenants will have to pay? It's just not something I would have budgeted for at all as a prospective tenant (in South Dublin!)

At a guess I would imagine it is the landlords responsibility as it is a tax on a property that they own. Im sure it will be passed on to the tenant through the rent though!

As a general rule as a tenant I am not interested in paying seperate charges from the landlord. If they want the rent to cover any charges that they incur from the property then let them include it in the monthly rent. I would in no way agree to be getting seperate bills from the landlord outside of the agreed monthly rent and quite frankly if they tried to insist on making me responsible for any of their charges and have me pay them outside of the rent I would have no hesitation in walking away. Their bills/tax/charges are their own problem.

The only exception with the tax is if the reside outside of the country then the tenant must withhold a percentage of the rent (20% I think) to be paid to revenue as income tax. This is the law.

NIMAN

You ain't liable for the household charge, property tax or NPPR.

DON'T PAY ANY OF THESE.

cookie1977

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Thanks for the answers.

A slightly related question so I'll put it here too - what about the incoming property tax - will it also be solely the responsibility of the landlord, or is it possibly something that tenants will have to pay? It's just not something I would have budgeted for at all as a prospective tenant (in South Dublin!)

We dont know what the law will be as of yet. It's unlikely to be the responsibility of the renter but we dont know for sure.