Parents of suspended Leaving Cert pupils to take legal action

Cabaal

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0818/1224322386260.html

Some 113 of the 120 sixth-year pupils at the High School in Rathgar were suspended on May 18th after an incident on May 4th in which they locked themselves into the sixth-year common room for 55 minutes and played dance music.

There were 2½ days of lessons remaining.

Pretty sure the same thing would have happened to my class when I was in school had we done something so stupid, perhaps due to the fact that the school is a fee paying school the kids thought they'd get away with it so close to the end of the year?

Tombi!

The kids reputations were ruined because they got suspended for breaking the rules?

Should be told to feck off IMO.

jank

They broke the rules yet cant take the punishment, Muppets the lot of them. Welcome to the entitlement generation.

Grayson

It was probably ****e music as well.

MadsL

jank wrote: »

They broke the rules yet cant take the punishment, Muppets the lot of them. Welcome to the entitlement generation.

The entitlement generation with parental access to legal counsel. Whilst they should have had access to due process, suing in the first instance is absurd behaviour; I hope the judge sticks em with costs.

3ndahalfof6

I am pretty sure this has been done.

mikemac1

Our children’s reputations have been damaged.

Jaysus :rolleyes:

It's over now, who cares

These must be the type of people to call for rich daddys lawyer

kylith

What did they expect for breaking school rules, a pat on the back and the key to the city?

Anyone

The crap that passes for news these days....

Talib Fiasco

I suppose they'll tell the judge that their children did awful in the LC because of their tarnished reputation...my god this is ridiculous. If they prevented them from doing the Leaving in the school they might have some case but this is just laughable. And eventhough their children, nobody will go against the school seeing they haven't done anything wrong.

Rynox45

This happened in my school. The entire year was told not to come into school because a few students continued being disorderly after they'd received a warning. I didn't care, we were allowed to come in to study if we wanted to. Probably improved my results tbh.

It's this sort of rubbish that's becoming more common.

stephen_k

mikemac1 wrote: »

Jaysus :rolleyes:

It's over now, who cares

These must be the type of people to call for rich daddys lawyer


Also High School? Are ya wannabe Americans?

The High School was founded in 1870 and it's name has nothing to do with American "High School"...

Grayson

Rynox45 wrote: »

This happened in my school. The entire year was told not to come into school because a few students continued being disorderly after they'd received a warning. I didn't care, we were allowed to come in to study if we wanted to. Probably improved my results tbh.

It's this sort of rubbish that's becoming more common.

I assume the 6 that weren't suspended weren't in that day?

godtabh

Grayson wrote: »

I assume the 6 that weren't suspended weren't in that day?

There was one more lad

cometogether

Sound like lads just having a laugh

shopaholic01

Imagine if the poor darlings were hurt while unsupervised in a locked room .......... oh wait, the parents would still sue:rolleyes:.

Biggins

All pupils (as are parents) are made aware every year of a schools code of conduct - the pupils then broke the rules.

What the hell did they expect to happen in reaction?

I'm a parent of four kids - and if my son/daughter broke the rules, by god I'd expect a reaction from the people running the school.
Frankly, I hope there would be one if only to teach my offspring that there is always consequences to peoples actions.

If the parents signed to agree to the schools code of conduct and as such also accepted the authoritarian exercise of corresponding punishments for the breaking of those rules, they are wasting their time in trying to sue the school.

I have no sympathy for the pupils or the parents.

bluecode

Sounds like a bunch of over privileged brats with overbearing parents. The original event and suspension amounts to a brilliant and memorable escapade long remembered.

Now it'll be a sour memory which will not reflect well on either the parents or the students. The school had no choice but to suspend them. In practical terms it was only a nominal suspension. If the school didn't react, next year the class of 2013 will attempt to top it with something even better and so on into the future.

You can almost guarantee this legal threat is being led by a small number of parents. You know the type, overdeveloped personalities, self righteous and egotisical.

They are making fools of themselves.

Heroditas

Hmmmm I know two teachers in that school and the story has been glossed over in the press.
There was a hardcore group that led the whole thing and bullied the rest of the year into taking part.
None of the kids would name the names of the ringleaders so they all got suspended.

The parents should be told to fcuk off.
I really hate the way there's so much handwringing and mollycoddling nowadays. It really is pathetic
Nobody will give a ****e this time next year if those kids were suspended.
Talk about bring absorbed in their own self importance. Makes me sick.

steddyeddy

Spoiled brats tbh and I include the parents in that statemen. The entitlement generation strikes once again. Through no merit of their own they are in a fee paying school and they blew it.

Rothmans

I feel sorry for the kids who did nothing wrong except being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but, on the bright side, at least they got 2 1/2 days.

The ringleaders were obviously cowards who wouldn't step forward to accept their punishment, and were content to let the rest of the students suffer for their actions.

bnt

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

The kids reputations were ruined because they got suspended for breaking the rules?

The kids' reputations were ruined on Facebook, perhaps. In the real world, meanwhile, who gives a hoot?

Biggins

bnt wrote: »

The kids' reputations were ruined on Facebook, perhaps. In the real world, meanwhile, who gives a hoot?

The man speaks the truth again.

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

All pupils (as are parents) are made aware every year of a schools code of conduct - the pupils then broke the rules.

What the hell did they expect to happen in reaction?

Well, it appears that the school didnt actually follow their own code of conduct. Apparently, the parents of any pupil involved in a serious breach of discipline “will be invited to a meeting with the year head and the principal or deputy principal . . . The details of the breach will be read to the parents and the pupil’s contribution to the school . . . in the past will be taken into account”.

That doesnt appear to have happened in the majority of cases. You either have a code of conduct, or you dont.

LizT

Ridiculous. 2 and a half days of school missed? Get over it, they would have been taught everything already and if it was anything like my school, those days are mostly spent dossing off or studying anyway.

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

Well, it appears that the school didnt actually follow their own code of conduct.

You know what was in their "Code of Conduct" ?

drkpower wrote: »

...Apparently, the parents of any pupil involved in a serious breach of discipline “will be invited to a meeting with the year head and the principal or deputy principal . . . The details of the breach will be read to the parents and the pupil’s contribution to the school . . . in the past will be taken into account”.

That doesnt appear to have happened in the majority of cases. You either have a code of conduct, or you dont.

Without knowing exactly what was in the schools "Code of Conduct" - we might assume that it allowed a school to react accordingly to any incidents and meter out punishments as soon as possible - if only to get them over and done with!
The above would make sense to me, to be honest.

As some irate parents are pushing the issue, it then comes an no surprise that the school had to then later arrange meeting(s) to further explain the whole mess which some parents own offspring started in the first place or later participated in.

It would come as no surprise to most parents I suspect, that punishments be handed out as soon as possible - then later the parents (when times later can be arranged) are requested to attend a meeting, if only to have the rules reinforced upon their memory.

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

You know what was in their "Code of Conduct" ?

Yes, it was quoted in the IT article and it is freely available on the net. Try google.

As i said, it suggests that the parents of any pupil involved in a serious breach of discipline “will be invited to a meeting with the year head and the principal or deputy principal . . . The details of the breach will be read to the parents and the pupil’s contribution to the school . . . in the past will be taken into account”.

That doesnt appear to have happened in the majority of cases.

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

Yes, it was quoted in the IT article and it is freely available on the net. Try google.

As i said, it suggests that the parents of any pupil involved in a serious breach of discipline “will be invited to a meeting with the year head and the principal or deputy principal . . . The details of the breach will be read to the parents and the pupil’s contribution to the school . . . in the past will be taken into account”.

That doesnt appear to have happened in the majority of cases.

Time was clearly a factor here as exams were coming up. Punishments would have to be metered out immediately. That much is very obvious to most.

It would be ruddy stupid to tell an ex-pupil six months later after they had ultimately left, that they were suspended! Eh?

Chuck Stone

You must not challenge authority - you must submit.

The school overreacted imo - it's a bunch of young people listening to music not a fucking prison riot.

I hate authoritarians.

starbelgrade

Feckin Southsiders.

Capt'n Midnight

How could they arrange meetings with parents and go through the full process with 2.5 days left in the year ?

Even if they could what sanction could they apply - apart from denying access to the examination centre or refusing to supply good references (illegal in Germany - here ?)

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

Time was clearly a factor here as exams were coming up. Punishments would have to be metered out immediately. That much is very obvious to most.

It would be ruddy stupid to tell an ex-pupil six months later after they had ultimately left, that they were suspended! Eh?

Why was time a factor? The code of conduct calls for a meeting with the parents - that could have happened that evening. If there was a large group of parents involved, they could have had a group meeting. It doesnt appear that there was even at attempt do follow the school's code of conduct.

Your original point was effectively 'they broke the rules - What the hell did they expect to happen in reaction? '. The answer to that is: the schools code of conduct would be invoked - it wasnt.

Paz-CCFC

Suspending the entire year for what they did was absolutely ridiculous. When I was in 6th year, we locked our teacher out of the room - when we let her back in, she didn't suspend the lot of us, she retaliated by locking us in. It's called having a laugh, as kids generally do.

But of course, the fact that these kids were "priviliged" means that they deserved it. The reverse snobbery that goes on here sometimes is laughable.

drkpower

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How could they arrange meetings with parents and go through the full process with 2.5 days left in the year ?

A meeting/meetings could have been held that evening.

Tombi!

drkpower wrote: »

A meeting/meetings could have been held that evening.

Not on such short notice.

Chuck Stone

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

But of course, the fact that these kids were "priviliged" means that they deserved it. The reverse snobbery that goes on here sometimes is laughable.

I wholeheartedly agree. There seems to be a lot of joy taken from the suspension of these kids because they are attending a fee-paying school.

Bunch of kids being kids and they're treated like deviants. Ridiculous overreaction by some gobshite authoritarian jobsworth.

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

Why was time a factor?

Again - for the second time: Time was clearly a factor here as exams were coming up.
You must have missed that bit previously so I bolded it for you.)

drkpower wrote: »

The code of conduct calls for a meeting with the parents - that could have happened that evening. If there was a large group of parents involved, they could have had a group meeting. It doesnt appear that there was even at attempt do follow the school's code of conduct.

Your original point was effectively 'they broke the rules - What the hell did they expect to happen in reaction? '. The answer to that is: the schools code of conduct would be invoked - it wasnt.

I'm sure a meeting could have been called for - and its seems one was as soon as it was possible we might assess.
In the meantime - GIVEN THE TIME CONSTRAINTS - those that could be immediately punished, we also might assume because there was clearer evidence of their involvement, were dealt with so that all could move on and get on with their lives.

Still no link for the schools rules of conduct that you seem to know.
If you have one, it would be much appreciated please.

You say:

It doesnt appear that there was even at attempt do follow the school's code of conduct.

Have you any clear evidence to back this up?
I'm sure of the kids parents and their solicitors would be glad of your evidence.

drkpower wrote: »

A meeting/meetings could have been held that evening.

For over 200 parents?
Yea - I can see that happening!

drkpower

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

drkpower wrote: »

A meeting/meetings could have been held that evening.

Not on such short notice.

why not? The school has the phone number of every parent.I'm sure any parent would make themselves available in such circumstances at short notice, dont you?

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

Again - for the second time: Time was clearly a factor here as exams were coming up.
You must have missed that bit previously so I bolded it for you.)

No, I got that. A meeting could have been held that evening. Phone the parents; tell them their kids are on the brink of suspension and that there is a meeting that evening to hear from them (as per the code of conduct). Im sure the parents would make themselves available in such circumstances; dont you?

Biggins wrote: »

Still no link for the schools rules of conduct that you seem to know.

Google' High School code of conduct'; its not rocket science.

Biggins wrote: »

Have you any clear evidence to back this up?

The IT article. Did you read it? It says that several parents who have spoken to The Irish Times say no appeals were heard and “just one or two parents” had meetings with Mr Forrest.

Tombi!

drkpower wrote: »

why not? The school has the phone number of every parent.I'm sure any parent would make themselves available in such circumstances at short notice, dont you?

There will always be some that simply can't go.

RMD

IMO an overreaction but I can see why they had to make an example of them. In the school I went to we had a 40 minute lunch, throughout the whole of 6th year we were allowed in our unoccupied classrooms and play music throughout the break if we wished. In this case though, it was an organized disturbance and a "deliberate breach of rules" I suppose you could say. If the school didn't suspend them the following years would try to top each previous years prank.

The parents on the otherhand are a right bunch of tits. Their kids knowingly broke the rules of their school. The school didn't ruin their childrens' "reputations", their children did when they deliberately defied the rules of the school. I went to a private school, fortunately I can say on the behalf of the vast majority of the people in my year we'd all consider these parents and students a bunch of tits. Just because they might get away with this shít at home doesn't mean they will in school.

In all honesty as well, what a poxy "prank" to play on the school, it doesn't even sound funny. You've been in the school for 6 years, leave on a good note and be well remembered for christ's sake.

drkpower

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

There will always be some that simply can't go.

So?
Does that mean you just dont bother to invoke the code of conduct?

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

No, I got that. A meeting could have been held that evening. Phone the parents; tell them their kids are on the brink of suspension and that there is a meeting that evening to hear from them (as per the code of conduct). Im sure the parents would make themselves available in such circumstances; dont you?


Google' High School code of conduct'; its not rocket science.


The IT article. Did you read it? It says that several parents who have spoken to The Irish Times say no appeals were heard and “just one or two parents” had meetings with Mr Forrest.

1. Not every parent can attend a meeting with a few hours notice - never mind the ones that actually might be away or working night-shifts (and some might not be able to further afford to take off) !

2. Googling a random High School code of conduct - is NOT the same as the one exactly used by the school involved.
There is always differences - but you seem to know this schools one exactly!
Please let us know the exact full "Code of Conduct" rules for this school in particular.

3. I'm guessing that the more serious ones were dealed with first - and we might say "Rightly so" ?

So the school might not have had the time to get everyone in at short notice - given that there is 200+ parents this should not come as a shock to any half dim-witted person.
...But still because some poor little 'Jonny' or 'Mary's' parents didn't get royal treatment and get to personally see the schools rep's first, now they are using it as an excuse?

Stuff them!
Maybe next time, they will actually teach their kids to stick with some rules!
If they can't even obey school rules - what chance does bloody some of them have out in the further real world!

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

1. Not every parent can attend a meeting with a few hours notice - never mind the ones that actually might be away or working night-shifts (and some might not be able to further afford to take off) !

So because some may not be able to turn up, you just dont bother then? Right?!

Biggins wrote: »

2. Googling a random High School code of conduct - is NOT the same as the one exactly used by the school involved.
There is always differences - but you seem to know this schools one exactly!
Please let us know the exact full "Code of Conduct" rules for this school in particular.

http://www.highschooldublin.com/Downloadable%20documents/Parents'%20Information%20Booklet.pdf
Seriously, were u not able to do that yourself?

Biggins wrote: »

...But still because some poor little 'Jonny' or 'Mary's' parents didn't get royal treatment ........

No; just the treatment stipulated in the school's code of conduct.

Biggins wrote: »

Maybe next time, they will actually teach their kids to stick with some rules!

By breaking their own?

Paz-CCFC

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree. There seems to be a lot of joy taken from the suspension of these kids because they are attending a fee-paying school.

Bunch of kids being kids and they're treated like deviants. Ridiculous overreaction by some gob****e authoritarian jobsworth.

It's a very strange theme of After Hours, to always have a go at pupils who've attended private, fee-paying schools. It's hardly the kids fault for being born into a bit of wealth, and it's hardly the parents fault for wanting to use their money for what they feel are in the best interests of their child.

Biggins wrote: »

1. Not every parent can attend a meeting with a few hours notice - never mind the ones that actually might be away or working night-shifts (and some might not be able to further afford to take off) !

Although not all would have been able to make it, surely it's better to be able to deal with some of the parents, rather than just issuing the suspension straight off.

Maybe next time, they will actually teach their kids to stick with some rules!
If they can't even obey school rules - what chance does bloody some of them have out in the further real world!

does bloody some of them have out in the further real world![/QUOTE]

Ah, c'mon now. You'd struggle to find a kid that didn't break some school rule. It's all part of growing up. Just because they have, doesn't mean they'll all grow up to be scumbags.

who_me

"Our children’s reputations have been damaged."

No. Not really. Lots of us did stupid things when we were in school, and now no one cares or even remembers. I remember some stupid leaving cert stunts back in my (small town) school (pile of crap placed on a teacher's desk, a herd of cattle was run through the school yard, someone brought in a goat's head and placed it in a basketball net of the neighbouring girl's school...) but I can't for the life of me remember who did them.

If you're concerned about their reputation, do you think bringing the matter to the media's and national attention is a good idea? You've taken a mole-hill and made a mountain out of it.

And who has damaged those children's reputation? The school didn't suspend them for theft, or assault; but for misconduct. Which is a good description of what they did. If anyone damaged their reputation, it's the children themselves.

"caused huge upset and derailment when these children should have been supported in focusing on the exams"

Sure, they sounded very focused on their exams. And I'm sure a court case and media attention will help them focus.

Yowza....

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

So because some may not be able to turn up, you just dont bother then? Right?!

Aaa... they DID bother - meetings were held for some, those that could possibly attend as soon as possible!
...Did you miss of forget about that bit?

Thank you for the direct link.

Although not all would have been able to make it, surely it's better to be able to deal with some of the parents, rather than just issuing the suspension straight off.

Some of the parents were quicker attended to - even other here have stated this or alluded to it.

Again (and its sad that the bloody obvious has to be even stated a second time - never mind just once): Time was clearly a factor here as exams were coming up.
Duh!

Ah, c'mon now. You'd struggle to find a kid that didn't break some school rule. It's all part of growing up. Just because they have, doesn't mean they'll all grow up to be scumbags.

...Which is why I said:

If they can't even obey school rules - what chance does bloody some of them have out in the further real world!

"All" ?
Where did I say "all" ???

drkpower

Biggins wrote: »

Aaa... they DID bother - meetings were held for some, those that could possibly attend as soon as possible!
...Did you miss of forget about that bit?

Yes, I missed that bit. The IT article doesnt mention it. Where did you get that information from?

Paz-CCFC

Biggins wrote: »

...Which is why I said:

"All" ?
Where did I say "all" ???

It was a misreading on my part. Apologies.

But I still think you're hyperbolising the situation. If they caused vandalism to the school or ran naked through it or something like that, I'd agree with you. That would be unacceptable behaviour, and it could very well continue with them down the line. But to ask "what chance have some in the real world" all because they locked themselves into a room and played a bit of music is simply overstating what happened.

IveSeenFire

jank wrote: »

They broke the rules yet cant take the punishment, Muppets the lot of them. Welcome to the entitlement generation.

Haha we're the entitlement generation and not the spoilt brat baby boomers? Yeah, right...

Biggins

drkpower wrote: »

Yes, I missed that bit. The IT article doesnt mention it. Where did you get that information from?

Well besides other reports, let me quote your own:

Originally Posted by drkpower
...Apparently, the parents of any pupil involved in a serious breach of discipline “will be invited to a meeting with the year head and the principal or deputy principal . . . The details of the breach will be read to the parents and the pupil’s contribution to the school . . . in the past will be taken into account”.

That doesnt appear to have happened in the majority of cases.

So above in the last line - your previously saying that some meetings did indeed take place or are you back-tracking from your above statement?

---

O' and regards the "Code of Conduct" - page 6/7:

Serious breaches of discipline

This policy exists to ensure that the interests of parents, pupils. staff and the school are fairly served on the rare occasions when a pupil is accused of a serious breach of discipline or of an accumulation of other offences which may result in a lengthy suspension or in expulsion.

Breaches of discipline such as the following may be regarded as serious - vandalism, theh. substance abuse. malicious injury, fighting, inappropriate sexual behaviour, gross misbehaviour such as striking or threatening a teacher or another person, repeatedly defying or swearing at a teacher, repeated or serious bullying.
The parents of the pupil concemed will be invited to an interview with the Year Head and the Principal or Deputy Principal. The pupil may be present for all or part, The details ofthe breach will be read to the parents and the pupil‘s contribution to the school, clubs. sports. academic record, character. conduct in the past, etc. will be taken into account.

The Principal or Deputy Principal may consult with other staff andfor call a meeting ofthe Serious Discipline Committee of the school and will then decide on a course of action and will communicate hisvher decision to the parents (and usually the pupil). There will be, in case of long (more than three days) suspensions or expulsions. a right of appeal to the Appeals Committee of the Board of`Govemors. The appeal will check that proper procedures have been followed and that the sanction is commensurate with the breach. The members ofthe appeal committee will be impartial and will not have been involved in the investigation or the original decision cottceming the sanction to be imposed. The decision of the Appeals C ommittee is made on behalf ofthe Board and is final, front the viewpoint ofthe school. A further appeal. to the Department of Education & Science. may be possible in some circumstances. according to the regulations in force at the time. This is known as the Section 29 appeal procedure (of the Education Act 1998). Details are available from the Principal or from the National Education Welfare Board.

Now if the offences which they were suspended for are NOT listed under the section of "Serious breaches of discipline" - the above "The parents of the pupil concemed will be invited to an interview with the Year Head and the Principal or Deputy Principal." DOES NOT have to rigidly apply.

I think you might have forgot to mention that bit.

Punishment was issued as quickly as possible according to the other sections and conditions therein attached.