Sister got mugged.

Mike87

Pretty much my sister got mugged yesterday by 3 teenage lads on a busy street around 4pm. Long story short, she refused to give over her bag and one of them punched her in the face and then when she fell he kicked her in the stomach. The Gardai caught the lads and got her bag back but since they're all minors not much is going to be done. Now shes afraid to go back into town on her own incase she bumps into again. Its not the first time these lads have hassled her.

So said we'd get her signed up to some kind of self defence class. We just want to get her signed up to something thats going to get her confidence back. And make her not feel so vulnerable. Any ideas? I was thinking boxing myself... but I figured I'd ask the experts first.

monkeypants

Krav Maga is worth a shot.

CageWager

Lesson 1: Always hand over the bag. Not worth getting hurt.

yomchi

Mike87 wrote: »

Pretty much my sister got mugged yesterday by 3 teenage lads on a busy street around 4pm. Long story short, she refused to give over her bag and one of them punched her in the face and then when she fell he kicked her in the stomach. The Gardai caught the lads and got her bag back but since they're all minors not much is going to be done. Now shes afraid to go back into town on her own incase she bumps into again. Its not the first time these lads have hassled her.

So said we'd get her signed up to some kind of self defence class. We just want to get her signed up to something thats going to get her confidence back. And make her not feel so vulnerable. Any ideas? I was thinking boxing myself... but I figured I'd ask the experts first.

Sorry to hear about your sister I hope she is ok. Unfortunately she is one of many many people selected and targeted for muggings. She needs to understand that, this stuff is happening every minute in cities across Ireland.
In relation to her confidence and her feeling vulnerable, while training in the correct martial art will certainly be an advantage, it won't fix all of the issues. By all means pick the right martial art for her, boxing is a great choice. I've never come across anyone from a decent boxing club that couldn't throw a savage head shots. In relation to Krav, I have come across Krav people during a pressure testing event who could only flail and flap - not lumping all of the Krav people in with this by the way, it was just my observation at the time.
Boxing over krav anytime for me.

Best of luck with it and fair play for taking the time to look after her.

Jonah42

Boxing or Judo best for this sort of thing imo.

Mike87

CageWager wrote: »

Lesson 1: Always hand over the bag. Not worth getting hurt.

Yeah the guards told her that too funnily enough. But luckily she wasnt too badly hurt. Just a few bruises. Believe it or not, the biggest hurt is the emotional backlash out of the whole thing. Taking up the self defence isnt her trying to get a revenge plan, or being ready to "smash up" the next guy. Its just to make her not feel so at mercy to someone... if you get what Im saying.

Mike87

Im after having a quick browse online and it seems a local club is offering a womens "tactix" classes. Anyone have any opinion on this discipline?

Peetrik

Boxing, Thai Boxing or Judo IMO. Not a fan of krav maga personally.

After a quick look at 'Tatix' it just looks like boxercise, lots of fun I'm sure but useless for what you're describing.

Ddad

I've worked on a few ladies only Krav classes and even though your sister may gain some insight into self defense on a short course she won't be able to defend herself in a street situation against three attackers.

Any of the people in the club who are reasonably proficient and respond allright in stress testing (multiple simultaneous attackers with boxing gloves and head protection) are fit, train regularly and concentrate on their technique and postioning. It has taken years of regular training and none of them would relish the thought of a street scrap.

Judo, karate, bjj etc are only as good as the person practising them. Krav might concentrate on groin shots etc but it won't do her much good if her brain turns to jelly in the event of an attack; which is what happens to most of us in a stress situation like a mugging.

I would suggest that self defence training that concentrates on situational awareness and trouble avoidance in tandem with the physical training would be of great benefit.

dardis

Sorry to hear that happened to your sister. **** those scumbags. **** like that scares me.

But Physical self defense should be the last thing she learns, what she needs to learn is how to get away without any damage. If it was at 4PM in a busy street she could learn how to let people around her know whats happening.

This of course is easier said than done. No-one in my family knows what to do in that situation, hell I dont even know what I would do so recommending someone or some place to learn how to deal with those situations is tough.

Maybe there are places that teach this stuff and people on here can point you in that direction.

**edit** I just saw the dudes post above me. So what he said is what I tried to say!

cowzerp

Mike87 wrote: »

Pretty much my sister got mugged yesterday by 3 teenage lads on a busy street around 4pm. Long story short, she refused to give over her bag and one of them punched her in the face and then when she fell he kicked her in the stomach. The Gardai caught the lads and got her bag back but since they're all minors not much is going to be done. Now shes afraid to go back into town on her own incase she bumps into again. Its not the first time these lads have hassled her.

So said we'd get her signed up to some kind of self defence class. We just want to get her signed up to something thats going to get her confidence back. And make her not feel so vulnerable. Any ideas? I was thinking boxing myself... but I figured I'd ask the experts first.

Boxing is efficient at hitting people and hard and also learned fairly fast, With that said if she had of boxed 1 of them they may have given her a worse hiding, A student of mine was mugged from behind by a junkie and she was 48kg judoka, Launched him over her head into the pavement, Again if it was with 3 lads would not have ended so well.

monkeypants wrote: »

Krav Maga is worth a shot.

Yeah if she wants to take on and get battered by 3 lads.

Dermighty

Lets be honest here, she wasn't in a fight until one of them punched her.

Regardless of whatever training I do I'd always hand over what they wanted if I felt I was going to be on the losing side of a fight. For example, 3 knackers versus me, I'd hand it over, 1 knacker, probably not.

In her case a martial art would teach her how to fight, being hassled by three people and fighting in that scenario is pretty stupid, one person pushes you, the other drags you to the ground, the other stomps on your head, lights out and you have a whole other world of things to worry about.

The first thing your sister should be doing is coming to terms with the fact that everyone is vulnerable to a certain degree and that three is more than a match for most people, not just because she's a girl, but because three people pose a very different kind of threat than one person.

I hope she's ok in the long run, but taking up a fighting style may not be the right thing to do either.

Adam Kiernan

Kenpo Karate street defence. Loreto school in Nutgrove. Tuesdays and Fridays 8.30 till 10. Great for confidence and practical techniques with traditional Karate combined.
6 Black belt instructors ,male and female, €5 a class .All welcome

cowzerp

Adam Kiernan wrote: »

Kenpo Karate street defence. Loreto school in Nutgrove. Tuesdays and Fridays 8.30 till 10. Great for confidence and practical techniques with traditional Karate combined

Boxing, Thai Boxing, MMA, BJJ, Kickboxing, Sanshou, Judo, Tae Kwon do

Any of these 1st and if not, then maybe Kenpo, Nah-still not.

Tweedle Dumb

The very first thing i was told when i went to start karate was, the first thing you'll learn to do is run away. So there is no shame in taking that option.

If you wish to get your sister to take up a MA just for confidence, odds are any MA will do that.

The choice of MA depends on what she hopes to get from it. From personal experience i can only speak for karate and Muay Thai. Karate Will give her better situational awareness, quicker reflexes as well as a few techniques to help her.

If it was the physical side, ie getting hit, that shuck her up most. Muay Thai would definitely help with that. as well as training you not to fear being hit, you learn so nice striking techniques.

The main thing with any MA is to find a good club that means you enjoy training. because if you enjoy training you Will feel comfortable and learn easier as well as keeping it up.

Tweedle Dumb

Tweedle Dumb wrote: »

The very first thing i was told when i went to start karate was, the first thing you'll learn to do is run away. So there is no shame in taking that option.
.

Ha, that's similar to what I tell people if they ask me if thai boxing is good for self defense! My answer....I can teach somebody how to punch/kick etc. But there's an athletics club down the road, if they want self-defence that's a good place to start!

Zen65

Mike87 wrote: »

So said we'd get her signed up to some kind of self defence class. We just want to get her signed up to something thats going to get her confidence back. And make her not feel so vulnerable. Any ideas? I was thinking boxing myself... but I figured I'd ask the experts first.

I know I'm going to repeat a lot of what's been said, but this is a "special interest" area for me, so I feel compelled to respond.

You are quite right to suggest that the primary function of any training she might take up is to help her regain her confidence. Three against one is not a fight, it's an assault and there's no martial art going to guarantee your uninjured escape in that situation. The very best advice from the best self-defence instructors (and from me, an "average" kinda self-defence instructor) would be to cut your losses and hand over the bag. It's a pain, but probably less painful than losing the bag and getting your nose broken too (or worse).

As for getting help from the people around her, well there's libraries full of evidence to suggest that if she could put her situation up on a billboard with flashing lights, people would still simply choose not to get involved. This isn't life or death, it's a bag!

So the answer to your question about "which art" is not about choosing the art that would guarantee her safety (because none will) but rather about choosing the art which best suits her in terms of body type & ability, location, and instructor.

Not to start a debate - all body types can learn all arts - but some body types are especially suited to certain arts. If she's a heavy build (or even overweight) with short arms and legs then a kicking art will be hard for her to learn, so rule out Tae Kwon Do, Kickboxing or Karate. Similarly if she has poor flexibility. If she's very light then rule out grappling arts (Judo, Jiu Jutsu, BJJ etc) because although she could compete well in her weight category, such categories don't exist on "the street". In fact I don't think grappling is well suited to a multiple-attacker situation anyway. I agree that boxing is universally good, and seems to suit a wide variety of people, though she may not enjoy the training. MMA also seems like a potentially good match.

Location is more important, because if the classes are inconvenient to get to, or on at awkward times, she won't go as often as she might initially want to. Very few people will travel for 40 minutes to get to a 60 minute class.

Above all else, the instructor is critical. Find a good one and your sister will enjoy training. She'll also realise (because the instructor will tell her up front) that the correct technique to apply in the recent situation she was in was to take the bag off and throw it at one of the lads, then run like hell. Her confidence should improve when she realises she has much more control over her safety than she thinks.

It's an awful shock for her to get mugged like that; I hope she'll get over it. It's important she does not avoid going into town just because of this, but she may need to change her routine there if she can, especially if these teens have a history of hassling her. Can she avoid being in the same area as them? Can she be more proactive about seeing them before they see her, and taking evasive action?

Anyway - to answer your original question, it would help to explain (roughly) where in the world she lives, so we might think of a nearby good instructor. Heck, it could even be one of us!

Z

Andrew H

Im sorry to hear that has happened to your Sister and it sounds from your original post that she has had ongoing problems with these little scum bags. Do they live close to where she lives. If so can she avoid meeting them are the Gardai going to do anything to stop this happening again?

IMO your sister needs to attend a well run Womens Self Defence Class that teaches situational awareness, how to try and avoid this happening again, when to give something up and when not too. Check out this link if your sister is based on the Northside of Dublin http://www.defendu.ie/womens-self-defence

I would back this up with a functional Martial Art, ask her to try a class or check them out on you tube to see which one may suit her body type and personality. My suggestions, in no particular order would be - Muay Thai, Kick Boxing (not touch or boxercise), Boxing, Sanshou, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Kyokushin Karate. Anyone of these arts will help build confidence, marital skill and fitness.

I hope your Sister is okay.

yomchi

Andrew H wrote: »

My suggestions, in no particular order would be - Muay Thai, Kick Boxing (not touch or boxercise), Boxing, Sanshou, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, Judo and Kyokushin Karate. Anyone of these arts will help build confidence, marital skill and fitness.

interesting that you would list a series of striking arts, then list a series of grapple arts and suggest any 'one' of these would help. Not nit picking at all so I hope you don't think I am. Would you not be better suggesting MMA instead?

dubdamo

A lot of people here are suggesting boxing and I agree one hundred percent that it is a fabulous art for self defence , so focused and direct. My little experience with it was some training with Nicky Cruz , an absolute gent. However the question is how many clubs cater for adults looking for primarily self defence , fitness. if someone can point me in the direction of a boxing club that would welcome a forty something (in my case) who wants to train and spar and not compete then please point me in their direction.

yomchi

dubdamo wrote: »

A lot of people here are suggesting boxing and I agree one hundred percent that it is a fabulous art for self defence , so focused and direct. My little experience with it was some training with Nicky Cruz , an absolute gent. However the question is how many clubs cater for adults looking for primarily self defence , fitness. if someone can point me in the direction of a boxing club that would welcome a forty something (in my case) who wants to train and spar and not compete then please point me in their direction.

Nicholas Cruz is a legend, I have had the pleasure of training with him a few times. If you're looking for a kickboxing club that offers what you're looking for, you've found one

Andrew H

yomchi wrote: »

interesting that you would list a series of striking arts, then list a series of grapple arts and suggest any 'one' of these would help. Not nit picking at all so I hope you don't think I am. Would you not be better suggesting MMA instead?

No prob Yomchi, I think for the street a strike and move/run is the best option. Although I believe the hardest thing you can hit someone with is the ground and thats where Judo comes into its own.

If you get taken to the ground BJJ (although at a Blue Belt level a BJJ practioner should be able to put someone down too) is the best for protecting youself and getting back up.

Maybe your right and MMA would be the better suggestion but im old school and tend to have trained Striking Arts and Grappling Arts separtley

Mike87

Just to clarify some points:

she may need to change her routine if she can, especially if these teens have a history of hassling her. Can she avoid being in the same area as them? Can she be more proactive about seeing them before they see her, and taking evasive action?

The youths hang out in an alley way (just off a main street) were they sit around drinking/getting high/been a nuisance to passbys. It all started a few months ago they started shouting at her as she passed, you know the usual "you looking for a good time" "have you a spare two euro" etc. She always ignored them and kept walking.

When her boss heard what happened he arranged that from now on when shes going home the store security will walk with her past the alley (its only about 300 meters from where she works). So shes not too worried about those particular people anymore- shes just worried about the situation happening again with different people.

Anyway - to answer your original question, it would help to explain (roughly) where in the world she lives, so we might think of a nearby good instructor. Heck, it could even be one of us!

Well shes living back in Dundalk now at the minute- and probably for the next year or so at least. I talked to her about this last night (and Im sure this is going to put a spanner in the works) but in an ideal world she would like to do a womans only class instructed by a woman.

As for getting help from the people around her, well there's libraries full of evidence to suggest that if she could put her situation up on a billboard with flashing lights, people would still simply choose not to get involved.

And add her incident to that library. Everyone in the street knew what was happening. The boys came out of an alley onto a main street screaming and shouting at her (in broad daylight) and everyone either crossed the road or give a lot of space when passing. Whilst a handful of others stood and watched :rolleyes:

Are the Gardai going to do anything to stop this happening again?

The Gardai said that those teenagers are well known to them and that they are constantly moving them out of the alley and searching them for drink/drugs. Not that that says much. They will end up in court for what happened, but because of their ages and because they were drunk when it happened (and no doubt a solicitor who will tell the judge all about their drink/drug/family problems) they will get of relatively painfree.

cowzerp

dubdamo wrote: »

A lot of people here are suggesting boxing and I agree one hundred percent that it is a fabulous art for self defence , so focused and direct. My little experience with it was some training with Nicky Cruz , an absolute gent. However the question is how many clubs cater for adults looking for primarily self defence , fitness. if someone can point me in the direction of a boxing club that would welcome a forty something (in my case) who wants to train and spar and not compete then please point me in their direction.

My club, rush boxing club train adults and they can spar if they want to.

First Aid Ireland

Ddad wrote: »

I would suggest that self defence training that concentrates on situational awareness and trouble avoidance in tandem with the physical training would be of great benefit.

I'm not sure most martial arts/self defence teachers are properly qualified to teach this stuff more than anyone else.

irateghost

Although id say boxing or kyokushin (both of which train you to take different kind of beatings). Maybe a nice dutch shepherd would be a good idea as i'd say the scum bags would be less inclined to attack a woman with a big dog than one thats just started martial arts. Personnaly id have a CHAT with the parents.

cowzerp

Most jobs don't allow dogs so won't help here.
Plus you can't bring dogs everywhere with you all the time.

Dyr

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

I'm not sure most martial arts/self defence teachers are properly qualified to teach this stuff more than anyone else.

I'd say most martial arts teachers are'nt qualified to teach it but there's plenty of information and resources out there on the subject

yomchi

Bambi wrote: »

I'd say most martial arts teachers are'nt qualified to teach it but there's plenty of information and resources out there on the subject

I'd say most martial arts teachers aren't qualified to teach anything got to do with protecting yourself, judging by some of the dim mak mystical BS that's available on every corner these days.

Civilian Personal Protection

yep always value oneself over property. period.

Striking combat is good for confidence, though i'm not sure it a best approach for the street per se. After all, there is a reason fighters were protection on their hands. Plus, without being sexist, factual instead, most females dont posses the strength of males. not often seeing a female boxer, etc in the ring against a male. Opening a can of worms here??? Haha.

A system geared for the street is ideal, and trained in such a manner. not all combat training automatically fits into all combat arenas. Indeed, not all practitioners are able to default to making it fit street combat. By virtue of the neglect of focusing on the actual violence to the exclusion of all else. Violence is one of the last stages of street combat.

warmest wishes

Wayne

Adam Kiernan

Very well said

Peetrik

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

Striking combat is good for confidence, though i'm not sure it a best approach for the street per se. After all, there is a reason fighters were protection on their hands.

People don't walk around with protection on their shins, elbow and knees. What could be a better approach than training with the weapons you are garuenteed to have with you regardless of where you are.
In my opinion, striking is the perfect approach to defending yourself.

Civilian Personal Protection

Hiya!

Peetrik wrote: »

People don't walk around with protection on their shins, elbow and knees. What could be a better approach than training with the weapons you are garuenteed to have with you regardless of where you are.

For sure. do ya see any/many women in Muay Thai/Kickboxing going against guys? There's a reason for that, . sure, there'll be anecdotal evidence of when women have had to but there's still an obvious physical disparity.

Peetrik wrote: »

In my opinion, striking is the perfect approach to defending yourself.

I value that, thank-you.

It might be an idea for the lady in question to explore 'awareness and avoidance' primarily. And to take care she doesn't spend her time training solely in a safe, sterile environment that at worst, requires her to go toe-to-toe with an adversary according to rules. It's not easy to default to the chaos of real world violence from that.

Such training would be far removed from the actual kind of event she wants to train for.

A female, indeed anyone really, should have for the street training in (in order of preference)

• Awareness and avoidance
• De-escalation/ conflict resolution
• Sound grasp on local self defence law
• Physical training that has the atmosphere of the actual events one is training to deal with (which imo, mostly means getting an opportunity to escape, that doesn't mean training toe-to-toe type fighting, but training in escaping situations)
• Physical training to try to level the physical disparity, perhaps with improvised weapons (alongside local self defence proportionate law)

that's the way i approach it at any rate, .



warmest wishes


Wayne

Peetrik

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

For sure. do ya see any/many women in Muay Thai/Kickboxing going against guys? There's a reason for that

That has nothing to do with people wearing boxing/mma gloves on the street, or with the advantage of training striking being that you always have your shins, elbows and knees with you which were the points I addressed.

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

Physical training to try to level the physical disparity

So do train in striking?

As regards to defense with weapons, I'm going to assume you're not advocating carry weapons as its against the law, so why bother training them... would it not be better to train in the weapons you will always have with you?
Better again, train them in a manner that ensures your training partner does his/her utmost to ensure your technique fails... like direct competition/full contact sparring and that way you know for certain if the technique is effective.

Dyr

Peetrik wrote: »

Better again, train them in a manner that ensures your training partner does his/her utmost to ensure your technique fails...

like kicking you in the head while you're still putting on your gloves :eek:

As regards to defense with weapons, I'm going to assume you're not advocating carry weapons as its against the law, so why bother training them... would it not be better to train in the weapons you will always have with you?

IMHO its better to train with an awareness of the weapons that are constantly in an environment than train to deliberately ignore them.

Civilian Personal Protection

Peetrik wrote: »

As regards to defense with weapons, I'm going to assume you're not advocating carry weapons as its against the law,

no need to assume, read what i really wrote, ...

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

Physical training to try to level the physical disparity, perhaps with improvised weapons (alongside local self defence proportionate law)

Peetrik wrote: »

so why bother training them... would it not be better to train in the weapons you will always have with you?

one size fits all answer to street combat doesn't exist.

Improvised weapons are items you use in that moment of attack. if a person has the training to appreciate such skills it makes their offence much more versatile.

There's nothing wrong with striking for personal protection (i never said there was). Yet to assume it is a primary, or indeed of any use it should be looked at the way one trains first. Less assumptions become facts. Until it's too late.

I recall in 1997, a high-grade 'person' (i wont single out any style) was walking down a street in England. An altercation started with a group of people. In the end he was knocked out. Twenty years of training down the drain when he needed it most. All because he assumed his training was applicable to all environments by default.

Training using elbows and knees are only optimal under limited parameters. I.E. in close. And it will depend on the amount of force that can be generated and the attackers variables as to whether such things are effective.

you ever hurt or break your hand when ya street fight? The phalanges and metacarpals are prone to injury against the major bones of the skull. Elbow, knee and shin (if it's conditioned enough) can be more tough. Yet any leg use in the street brings it's own issues. Whilst using the elbow and knee mean you have to be in close to the attacker. not ideal in the street. Having to be aware of potential weapons being pulled. Or ones eyes being attacked, or even bit. Still, if one is in close for whatever reason of course it may be an option to immediately get space. There is no point going toe-to-toe against a male if you are female.

Peetrik wrote: »

Better again, train them in a manner that ensures your training partner does his/her utmost to ensure your technique fails... like direct competition/full contact sparring and that way you know for certain if the technique is effective.

With respect. Fighting under safety parameters with rules, in competition/sparring is nothing like real world violence. Except in the movies. In such comp/sparring events similar weight, same sex is standard. Heck sometimes similar ability also (i recall this from a Shotokan comp i was in in Kildare looong time ago).

This topic is about one female against multiple males in the street. Variables with that can include weapons, multiple attacks, mental capitulation in possible sex attacks, male pack instinct, i could go on for ever...

Much respect

Wayne

Peetrik

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

Improvised weapons are items you use in that moment of attack. if a person has the training to appreciate such skills it makes their offence much more versatile.

Well Wayne, just in my opinion all that 'rolled up newspaper' or 'umbrella' stuff is an absolute fantasy.

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

With respect. Fighting under safety parameters with rules, in competition/sparring is nothing like real world violence. Except in the movies. In such comp/sparring events similar weight, same sex is standard. Heck sometimes similar ability also (I recall this from a Shotokan comp i was in in Kildare looong time ago).

Ah in fairness Wayne the old 'there are no rules on the streets' line is a fallacy. You already said earlier in the thread that you don't advocate breaking weapons laws so you do play by some rules. If you don't train something full contact with a resisting partner then you don't know if it actually works so all the groin strikes and eye gouges in the world are useless if you have never done them.
If I'm in a fight in the ring and I'm trying to knee someone in the face, I can be 100% certain that they are doing their utmost to resist that technique.
Dismissing competition because its matched against another athlete in favour of training 'improvised weapons' sounds more like movie land to me.

The topic is about what arts the boards community recommend for a person defending herself.
Personally I would recommend an art that is tested in full contact competition over one that doesn't compete every time but hey, that's just personal preference.

Civilian Personal Protection

Peetrik wrote: »

Well Wayne, just in my opinion all that 'rolled up newspaper' or 'umbrella' stuff is an absolute fantasy.

Even if one went all out and said a water-bomb is also pure fantasy - hardly invalidates improvised weapons. One can give silly examples to attempt to prove a point, it lowers the intellectual value.

Peetrik wrote: »

Ah in fairness Wayne the old 'there are no rules on the streets' line is a fallacy. You already said earlier in the thread that you don't advocate breaking weapons laws so you do play by some rules.

i'm not a criminal. anymore. When i was there were no rules.

Pointing out the obvious, attackers don't play by the rules if their attack is illegal. Yet the victim is still bound by laws on self defence.

Peetrik wrote: »

If I'm in a fight in the ring and I'm trying to knee someone in the face, I can be 100% certain that they are doing their utmost to resist that technique.
Dismissing competition because its matched against another athlete in favour of training 'improvised weapons' sounds more like movie land to me.

When one fights in the ring they are trained for stamina, to go a distance. Trained to recognize rules. Trained under safety, either with protective equipment or rules. Similar weight. One-on-one.

Street is a different animal. Oxygen depletion comes very quick. and that's if one can deal with the physiological response beforehand. There is no safety on the street. Does on fall on mats in the gym? It's a mental leap to even train to fall on hard ground, loose stone, and glass. I see it all the time. And that's in the bare minimum safety of our training.

As i pointed out earlier, one size doesn't fit all in street combat. In giving the sparse, yet multiple variables i have, 'improvised weapons' is merely one factor in countless dangers in street combat. Dangers that simply are non-existent in competition. When you are in the ring trying to knee someone, is the other guy grabbing his blade? Grabbing your bollocks? his two mates coming over and dancing on your head?

There's little comparison to competitions.

Peetrik wrote: »

The topic is about what arts the boards community recommend for a person defending herself.
Personally I would recommend an art that is tested in full contact competition over one that doesn't compete every time but hey, that's just personal preference.

It's ideal to train with someone who's actually experienced and dealt with in real life what they are meant to teach. Combat specific for that situation, or environment. Not someone who guesses/hopes/assumes a sterile, safe environment will suffice. This is peoples lives.

That isn't directed at you. It's a general opinion.

warmest wishes

Wayne

bill buchanan

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

It's ideal to train with someone who's actually experienced and dealt with in real life what they are meant to teach. Combat specific for that situation, or environment. Not someone who guesses/hopes/assumes a sterile, safe environment will suffice. This is peoples lives.

That isn't directed at you. It's a general opinion.

warmest wishes

Wayne

The problem, as i see it, with this thinking is that the type of people who teach this type of course are seasoned brawlers who usually have a bit of physicality about them. So it's fair enough for them to tell another bouncer how to respond in an attack. But what do they know about women defending them selves in that situation.

It's like a really really intelligent person trying to teach a really really dumb person how to approach an exam, in my opinion.

Civilian Personal Protection

bill buchanan wrote: »

The problem, as i see it, with this thinking is that the type of people who teach this type of course are seasoned brawlers who usually have a bit of physicality about them. So it's fair enough for them to tell another bouncer how to respond in an attack. But what do they know about women defending them selves in that situation.

It's like a really really intelligent person trying to teach a really really dumb person how to approach an exam, in my opinion.

It's a good point. Some systems take this issue very seriously. And they will only teach subjects they have direct experience in . Including having female instructors that teach the female specific courses. Females that have been abused by males. I'm free to elaborate on that openly. Teaching direct from source is very valuable. (there's a certain article in todays issue of Irish Fighters mentioning this)

My view is, if the person is no longer involved in criminality, and wants to use the experiences to help others, it is useful. I'm biased of course. .

warmest wishes

Wayne

Peetrik

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

i'm not a criminal. anymore. When i was there were no rules.

Haha ok, I'm out

Dyr

Peetrik wrote: »

Haha ok, I'm out

I'll see your facepalm and raise you an implied falcepalm while holding an improvised weapon:

just in my opinion all that 'rolled up newspaper' or 'umbrella' stuff is an absolute fantasy.

Peetrik

Haha that umbrella stuff wasn't aimed at you Bambi, I thought you did Kali/Escrima anyway.

Dyr

Eskrima respects the power of the umbrella, not so much the Irish Times.

pearsquasher

Just want to chime in to say I agree with all that Civilian Personal Protection has said, and dig his general attitude and civility.

Done any Bujinkan? What your saying fits in with its ethos.

Civilian Personal Protection

pearsquasher wrote: »

Just want to chime in to say I agree with all that Civilian Personal Protection has said, and dig his general attitude and civility.

Done any Bujinkan? What your saying fits in with its ethos.

appreciate that. you've obviously had your fair share of street encounters, coupled with your martial arts background. It's always easy to tell. lots have never tested their club skills in the street, it shows. If training was adapted for the street, lots of good systems would do what they claim they can. Or at least, be much better at it. People coming off with weird things. but hey, we're all learners

Bunjinka, nope never tried it. Was gonna begin Genbukan once. i know a former high ranking Genbukan guy who has made an excellant street system out if it. He teaches a martial art, and then has adapted some things for a street system taught separately. Was gonna get into bunjikan maybe1 6 years ago, was it Brian MacCarthy was/is the big guy round here? I seem to remember his name.

warmest wishes

wayne