Are we becoming too p.c. ?

cristoir

I hate the way political correctness has become a catch all phrase to denote any form of over-zealously imposed social policy. We should remember that political correctness as a term was never something advocated by either social liberals or progressives. There has never been a Political Correctness Movement. The term has always been meant as a pejorative.

It was created in spin rooms during the US culture wars of the 90's to tarnish the social progress of the time. Things like not insulting people based on arbitrary characteristic's are put in the same boat as ridiculous health and safety initiatives like not letting kids run in school yards.

racso1975

Greentopia wrote: »

I wouldn't see much difference between handicapped and disabled really. They're both negative descriptors. Wouldn't it be fairer and more respectful not to define people by what they can't do but rather by what they actually are-a person with special needs, or with mental or physical challenges? not saying you're being disrespectful to your brother, he may not care what the people who love him refer to him as, as long as it's not a term of abuse, just that perhaps you haven't thought of it that way.

Imagine if you were someone with a physical or mental challenge, wouldn't you prefer if people didn't categorise you as handicapped or disabled for the rest of your life and define you as such? I think I would. Those terms seem to me to disregard or count as nought all the positive talents and capabilities that people like that still retain.
At the end of the day though I think it comes down to what the person with the 'disability' feel themselves and what terms they prefer used and what they find offensive or not (as they're not a homogeneous group and views no doubt differ about what is thought of as acceptable terminology within that community); and finding that out is as simple as just politely asking them if you're unsure.

To me that's not being PC, it's just being polite and considerate.

The bit in bold.......if your being all pc why are their needs special versus mine???? Surely they are just different

Greentopia

mikemac1 wrote: »

Enid Blyton may have sold 600 million books but her editors know better, the books are edited these days

The language she used just won't do

I read her as a child, clearly turned me into a flamin racist

I adored the Famous Five series as a child. Unedited versions. The only thing it did to me was fire my imagination, and give me a longing for ginger beer and adventure. Clearly I must have missed something

racso1975

cristoir wrote: »

I hate the way political correctness has become a catch all phrase to denote any form of over-zealously imposed social policy. We should remember that political correctness as a term never something advocated by either social liberals or progressives. There has never been a Political Correctness Movement. The term has always been meant as a pejorative.

It was created in spin rooms during the US culture wars of the 90's to tarnish the social progress of the time. Things like not insulting people based on arbitrary characteristic's are put in the same boat as ridiculous health and safety initiatives like not letting kids run in school yards.

Given the amount of big words in your sentence i guess you have not drunk as much as me.........I am impressed by the above so i concur with your views (possibly till tomorrow)

racso1975

Greentopia wrote: »

I adored the Famous Five series as a child. Unedited versions. The only thing it did to me was fire my imagination, and give me a longing for ginger beer and adventure. Clearly I must have missed something

Bet when you tasted that ginger beer you were sorely disappointed!!!! i thought it was bleedin awful

Greentopia

racso1975 wrote: »

The bit in bold.......if your being all pc why are their needs special versus mine???? Surely they are just different

You're the one who says I'm "being all PC", not me. In fact I said it had nothing to do with being PC if you read my post.
And you're being pedantic.

Edit-ah, you're drunk, or well on the way. Never mind, no point in discussing this so.

racso1975

Greentopia wrote: »

You're the one who says I'm "being all PC", not me. In fact I said it had nothing to do with being PC if you read my post.
And you're being pedantic.

Sorry just re-read your post and your right. I am sorry and i was just being pretty pedantic too.

edit: Argh caught out by a ninja edit well played good sir

mikemac1

racso1975 wrote: »

Bet when you tasted that ginger beer you were sorely disappointed!!!! i thought it was bleedin awful

You should have lashings and lashings of it!

Greentopia

racso1975 wrote: »

Bet when you tasted that ginger beer you were sorely disappointed!!!! i thought it was bleedin awful

Not awful but not really what I had expected. My expectations were too high!

newmug

Greentopia wrote: »

You're the one who says I'm "being all PC", not me. In fact I said it had nothing to do with being PC if you read my post.
And you're being pedantic.

Edit-ah, you're drunk, or well on the way. Never mind, no point in discussing this so.

^^^^^^^ Come on now, he's not drunk. He's just alcoholically induced judgementally impaired. Its not fair to treat him any differently!

Greentopia

racso1975 wrote: »

Sorry just re-read your post and your right. I am sorry and i was just being pretty pedantic too.

edit: Argh caught out by a ninja edit well played good sir

Ahem, good madam
Thank you for the apology, didn't mean to catch you out with the edit, honest! I just read back on one of your previous posts where you said you were drinking after I had hit post and then decided to add a few more words that clarified my position more, that's all.

racso1975

newmug wrote: »

^^^^^^^ Come on now, he's not drunk. He's just alcoholically induced judgementally impaired. Its not fair to treat him any differently!

Thank you for defending my honor however i do feel the points raised in my original op still stand

Greentopia

newmug wrote: »

^^^^^^^ Come on now, he's not drunk. He's just alcoholically induced judgementally impaired. Its not fair to treat him any differently!

"Alcoholically self-induced judgementally impaired"... unless someone is there forcing alcohol down his throat against his will

Morlar

Greentopia wrote: »

"Alcoholically self-induced judgementally impaired"... unless someone is there forcing alcohol down his throat against his will

Beveragely over-served.

Muir

I think being so PC makes a big issue out of things that people shouldn't care about. Like if you have to stop and consider if it's okay to say 'handicapped' or 'disabled' or 'black' or 'coloured' that actually turns it into a problem, it draws more attention to it. I personally would find it quite condescending if someone had to tip-toe around me in fear of not saying something in the socially perceived correct way. If the words mean/describe the same thing then what's the difference anyway. It becomes this issue because people are so obsessed with it.

The whole thing in schools of not being able to call it a black board or say baa baa black sheep is one of the most stupid things ever. It just attracts children's attention to the fact that someone else is considered different but we aren't allowed to comment on it. Everyone is different for some reason or other, it should be okay to talk about & people shouldn't have to worry about hurting everyone else's feelings.

Miss Lockhart

Muir wrote: »

The whole thing in schools of not being able to call it a black board or say baa baa black sheep is one of the most stupid things ever.

Where does this come from? They are called black-boards all over Ireland with no problem. Is this just abroad?

DEFTLEFTHAND

In America any derision of the Jews is strongly discouraged. With the power and influence these people have, one would be a fool to cross them. Even joshing with friends and dropping a K bomb could have serious implications.

Greentopia

Morlar wrote: »

Beveragely over-served.

I like it. It conveniently offloads responsibility for the quantity of alcoholic libations a person ingests onto someone else. "It were all the bar tender's fault I'm puking my guts up outside the chippie at 2.30am after a feed of beer! I was Beveragely Over-served you see, I can't be held responsible for that!"

racso1975

Greentopia wrote: »

I like it. It conveniently offloads responsibility for the quantity of alcoholic libations a person ingests onto someone else. "It were all the bar tender's fault I'm puking my guts up outside the chippie at 2.30am after a feed of beer! I was Beveragely Over-served you see, I can't be held responsible for that!"

Thats how it works in oz. The barman thinks you got too much then you are getting no more as he and the bar get fined if you act the bollix outside of pub

Greentopia

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

In America any derision of the Jews is strongly discouraged. With the power and influence these people have, one would be a fool to cross them. Even joshing with friends and dropping a K bomb could have serious implications.

Well given the tragic history of that people with pogroms and the Nazi's can you blame them? Is it such an imposition to refrain from using that insulting word when it's just as easy to say the word Jew?
And if you're just "joshing with" American friends how do you know one of them is not Jewish or one of their family isn't? Even here you couldn't be sure of that, and you wouldn't wish to risk cause offence to your friends surely anyway, regardless of what influence they may have that you think may work against you?

Wouldn't you react negatively if (and I'm assuming you're Irish when I say this) Americans in your company were to make derisive remarks about Irish people or make jokes about the famine?

Goro

If you don't like what the creche is teaching your son, change creche.

Greentopia

racso1975 wrote: »

Thats how it works in oz. The barman thinks you got too much then you are getting no more as he and the bar get fined if you act the bollix outside of pub

Sounds reasonable to me! It would help to cut down on a lot of the problems of alcohol and drunkenness on the streets if we introduced that here I think.

Motorist

Greentopia wrote: »

Well given the tragic history of that people with pogroms and the Nazi's can you blame them? Is it such an imposition to refrain from using that insulting word when it's just as easy to say the word Jew?
And if you're just "joshing with" American friends how do you know one of them is not Jewish or one of their family isn't? Even here you couldn't be sure of that, and you wouldn't wish to risk cause offence to your friends surely anyway, regardless of what influence they may have that you think may work against you?

Hopefully they can find catharsis by continuing to fire Hellfire rockets from Apache attack helicopters into Palestinian residential complexes :eek:

DEFTLEFTHAND

Greentopia wrote: »

Well given the tragic history of that people with pogroms and the Nazi's can you blame them? Is it such an imposition to refrain from using that insulting word when it's just as easy to say the word Jew?
And if you're just "joshing with" American friends how do you know one of them is not Jewish or one of their family isn't? Even here you couldn't be sure of that, and you wouldn't wish to risk cause offence to your friends surely anyway, regardless of what influence they may have that you think may work against you?

Wouldn't you react negatively if (and I'm assuming you're Irish when I say this) Americans in your company were to make derisive remarks about Irish people or make jokes about the famine?

I wouldn't care, I've an Italian room mate who I refer to as 'Greaser'. We've an Asian neighbour who we call 'slope'. I'm Paddy obviously, the thick alcoholic ape like creature.

For me its just a bit of fun, don't get yourself into a PC pickle.

mauzo

I hate PC crap. I hate people who take offence to things that arent meant to be offensive! Ugh its my biggest pet peeve.

I mean people make rape jokes, Im fine with that, I laugh along. I understand not everyone can but jesus its hardly going to change anything. If somethings funny Ill laugh, end of.

My son has cerebral palsy and some of my friends almost crap their pants before they'll say the word disabled. Like who cares??? Or they'll say oh so and so is such a retard...and automatically look at me like Im going to kill them for it.

Society has changed the way we view certain words. Retard now means youre just an idiot, same with other words! I personally dont use them, but I dont flip at others who do! Sometimes I cringe a bit on the inside, but just because I dont like a certain word or joke, doesnt mean I get to kick up a fuss about it!

One of my biggest pet peeves in the world. I hate when people automatically jump down peoples throats for saying the wrong word. Oh its not coloured, youre supposed to say black. You cant say special, youre supposed to say disabled. Ugh sorry major rant here!

Greentopia

Motorist wrote: »

Hopefully they can find catharsis by continuing to fire Hellfire rockets from Apache attack helicopters into Palestinian residential complexes :eek:

That's off topic and anyway has nothing to do with what I said in my post. The actions of the Israeli authorities in no way justifies the use of anti-semitic language.

Pugins

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

If it wasn't for P.C we'd probably still have these in Smyths.

They still have Gollywogs here in Melbourne. Have seen them in so many kids toy shops! Really un-PC

Greentopia

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I wouldn't care, I've an Italian room mate who I refer to as 'Greaser'. We've an Asian neighbour who we call 'slope'. I'm Paddy obviously, the thick alcoholic ape like creature.

For me its just a bit of fun, don't get yourself into a PC pickle.

I'm not in a pickle, I'm calm and relaxed

Just a bit of fun until you meet someone who doesn't share your sense of humour and finds what you say insulting or offensive.

You say all these words openly to their face? because if you feel they're just a bit of fun then the logical conclusion is I'm sure you would have no problem calling your Italian boss (for example) a 'Greaser' or you would call your black friend down the road N***** to his face yes?
How about your gay friend-a F*****'? all in a light hearted jokey way I mean. Do you think they'd find those words funny?

Words carry weight, have meaning and can some words can cause grave offence. That's why certain words like N***** and kike are no longer in use in civilised society. Just because you (say) you wouldn't be insulted by derisive anti-Irish remarks or jokes doesn't mean other people should feel as you do.
Of course the intention behind the words is very important also.

For me it's not about being PC, it's about being sensitive to people's feelings and not wishing to intentionally or needlessly cause hurt and offence to people. If that means some words are off limits so what? the English language is rich and varied enough to use alternative words that don't cause insult or hurt.

pablomakaveli

syndeyfife wrote: »

I hate PC crap. I hate people who take offence to things that arent meant to be offensive! Ugh its my biggest pet peeve.

I mean people make rape jokes, Im fine with that, I laugh along. I understand not everyone can but jesus its hardly going to change anything. If somethings funny Ill laugh, end of.

My son has cerebral palsy and some of my friends almost crap their pants before they'll say the word disabled. Like who cares??? Or they'll say oh so and so is such a retard...and automatically look at me like Im going to kill them for it.

Society has changed the way we view certain words. Retard now means youre just an idiot, same with other words! I personally dont use them, but I dont flip at others who do! Sometimes I cringe a bit on the inside, but just because I dont like a certain word or joke, doesnt mean I get to kick up a fuss about it!

One of my biggest pet peeves in the world. I hate when people automatically jump down peoples throats for saying the wrong word. Oh its not coloured, youre supposed to say black. You cant say special, youre supposed to say disabled. Ugh sorry major rant here!

The thing is its usually people taking offence on someone elses behalf. For example a white person complaining that someone said black when talking about an african. The african person probably wont be offended at all yet soe moron will decide to be offended on his behalf.

It's a bit ridiculous at times.

B.A._Baracus

For me, I think the world is currently too 'pc' ...
I define 'pc' as going over-board in what you say, do or act in life. Solely out of fear that you think others will get offended :rolleyes: ...

BOF666

Greentopia wrote: »

Sounds reasonable to me! It would help to cut down on a lot of the problems of alcohol and drunkenness on the streets if we introduced that here I think.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that well in Melbourne or Sydney, there are still places that open 24 hours, and I've been refused by bouncers for being too drunk once or twice but never by anyone behind the bar...

Back on topic though,I get plenty of stick in work for being Irish, jokes about being a pisshead, the famine, etc. but it’s all just a laugh, I'd never get offended by it, whereas there are some people that you can't crack a joke around for fear of getting a political correctness lecture!

BillyMitchel

Anytime I see the letters PC I think of that old programme The Bill and hum its tune.

MadsL

newmug wrote: »

Are we becoming too P.C? Lad, we're gone waaaaaaaaayyyy beyond that. Those people who are always pushing for PC should visit a few other countries. They'd get an eye-opener.

Yeah, a few days in Somalia, Iran or Afghanistan would give them something to be PC about... wait, what??

EoghanIRL

frag420 wrote: »

I prefer Mac over PC anyday!!

Bring it!

I hope you brought your flame suit

PhlegmyMoses

That "Baa Baa Black Sheep" story is an urban legend that has been doing the rounds for years. It's an apocryphal tale used to demonstrate how the world has gone PC mad. It is disingenuous and always used as anecdotal evidence of the absurdity of political correctness by people who are a bit racist but don't want to admit it.

racso1975

Two private nurseries in Oxfordshire in 2006 altered the song to "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep", with black being replaced with a variety of other adjectives, like "happy, sad, hopping" and "pink".[11]

WTF

mikemac1

Anyone remember Golly Bars?

Turned a generation of Irish children into racists!
Have not seen them since the early nineties, now long gone but not forgotton

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/50314_152806536307_6955561_n.jpg


They were nice.....but not as nice as your Mammies wafers and icecream

Jester252

I love the look of fear in someones eyes when they say something unPC in public

Conall Cernach

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Somebody gave out to me last night for calling a woman a broad. The mind boggles.

Are you a 1930s Chigaco gangster?

Tombi!

The worse part is that lots of us grew up with all these "offensive" things and the majority of us turned out fine.

And a lot of you are missing the point: it's not just the "that's racist/offensive/sexist/wrong/mean", etc. You're completely destroying an entire generation.

Look at the Simpsons, considered to be horrible because Homer chokes Bart now and again.
I doubt any of us would consider choking the life out of a kid to be acceptable (though some days I consider it to the litte feckers around me).

And what makes it funnier is that by "protecting" kids, you're just giving them more protection against punshiments.

That and let's face it: Baa Baa Black Sheep is some fine alliteration. I wonder if we said "Baa Baa Blue Sheep" do we get to say it's offensive against people with hypothermia?

Oh and the handicap/disabled/etc thing: if someone is handicapped/has a handicapped, they are/they have, end of fúcking story.

Are we going to change golf to say "what's your differently abled ability in this game"?

Chazz Michael Michaels

Yeah being fair to people is ****.

ejmaztec

racso1975 wrote: »

I am becoming sick to my back teeth of being corrected by my 4 yr old son for saying something is stupid or god forgive i say the word hate!!!!

Now this pc ****e is drilled into him in the creche and no doubt will be continued during school in September.

I honestly thinks he needs to know that there are ****in stupid people out or people that will do stupid things and he will hate them for it !!!!!! It is ****in inevitable

How long is he meant to go around in this airy fairy bubble of pc madness!!!!!!

Actually i'm going to go wake little racso and tell him some home truths!!!

In the meantime you guys post examples of pc madness or let me know if we have not gone far enough on the pc front

Never mind, he's only going through a phase. When little Racso starts school proper his non-PC peers will cure him and all will be right in the world again.

Shenshen

racso1975 wrote: »

I am becoming sick to my back teeth of being corrected by my 4 yr old son for saying something is stupid or god forgive i say the word hate!!!!

Now this pc ****e is drilled into him in the creche and no doubt will be continued during school in September.

I honestly thinks he needs to know that there are ****in stupid people out or people that will do stupid things and he will hate them for it !!!!!! It is ****in inevitable

How long is he meant to go around in this airy fairy bubble of pc madness!!!!!!

Actually i'm going to go wake little racso and tell him some home truths!!!

In the meantime you guys post examples of pc madness or let me know if we have not gone far enough on the pc front

Well, I bloody hate having to be pc about people to uninfomred to know what pc actually is...

wp_rathead

newmug wrote: »

^^^^^^^ Come on now, he's not drunk. He's just alcoholically induced judgementally impaired. Its not fair to treat him any differently!

he is soberly challenged

JohnMarston

Remember kids, disregard your inner feelings of resentment and dislike towards others, dont address them. Walk on eggshells around your peers for fear of offending them. If you are in doubt as to whether a particular word is approved, refer to your personal copy of the newspeak dictionary.

Motorist

I think we should ban the word black as it's offensive to the African ethnicity.

ejmaztec

Motorist wrote: »

I think we should ban the word black as it's offensive to the African ethnicity.

We should ban any words implying that people are anyway different to each other, so African, European, ethnicity etc would be out the window.

JohnMarston

ejmaztec wrote: »

We should ban any words implying that people are anyway different to each other, so African, European, ethnicity etc would be out the window.

Names too, it gives us too much individuality. We need to start using serial numbers

MJ23

I don't like the way foreigners are called 'non nationals'. What wrong with being called foreign? If i was in a different country i wouldn't mind being called foreign.
The same goes for someone saying that im white. Why can i not refer to someone being black or Chinese etc? Its just the same as saying "yer man over there in the red tshirt" why can't i say "the black fella"
Back to the non national thing, its the same as calling an amateur golfer a "non professional".

hooradiation

JohnMarston wrote: »

Names too, it gives us too much individuality. We need to start using serial numbers

Jesus fucking wept.

The mental contortions some people will go to in order to present the idea of not being shitty to people on the basis of superficial differences as a bad one is fucking stupefying.