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Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    first


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    10k posts in a month, bejaysus


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    5 times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,545 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Amazed how quick that last thread hit 10k.

    Will reach it even quicker if we lose to Man City.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Super-Rush wrote: »
    5 times.

    Edit:
    Balls.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Melion wrote: »
    10k posts in a month, bejaysus

    You know you wanted first ,,,,,,,,:P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Does the internet break if it gets much beyond 10k posts?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,473 ✭✭✭✭Super-Rush


    Boards might.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    Lord God, this place is gone stone mad!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭BINKY NIPPER


    Here Precious


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    Melion wrote: »
    You can bolden up whatever text you like but I haven't attacked a poster.

    By definition that is what you are doing.

    It's not up for debate. Just stop it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭kevohmsford


    New thread. Time to give Brendan Rodgers a chance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    first

    It would have been most fitting if you started off with a few ,,,,,,,,,,,


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    G.K. wrote: »
    By definition that is what you are doing.

    It's not up for debate. Just stop it.

    Not up for debate? Can I have an example of these personal attacks?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Seriously, what's the story with the ****ing commas?!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,246 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    How long will it take for this thread to get depressing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    How long will it take for this thread to get depressing?

    Will it help if I speed things along and post up some dead kittens?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    What skillsets/viewpoints would he have offered on a day to day basis? I don't know much about the guy but it seems that's he only ever had one year as a manager, not sure if he ever been involved in recruitment of senior players either so I'm not sure what his skill set is in terms of being on a panel.

    I'd be speculating far too much to give any kind of a considered opinion. He has obviously been involved with shaping the clubs Academy with a common philosophy. While we're now trying to implement that throughout the club the connection he would bring from having developed that with our youth system to forging a connection to the first team I would have thought invaluable.

    Better than Pep explain his current role and what he could have offered in a more senior role.
    Pep Segura Explains Strategy Behind Liverpool's Academy

    Much has been said about the excellent job that Pep Segura and Rodolfo Borrell have been doing at the Liverpool academy yet, at the same time, very little is known about the actual strategy behind their work. Everyone has been saying that they've brought over Barcelona's model without knowing what that model is about outside of vague concepts.

    Yet there is now more clarity thanks largely to a presentation made by Pep Segura at a football conference organised by the Catalun INEF (a physical education programme) and RCD Espanyol.

    What follows is a summary of Segura's talk, translated from the blog of well known Catalan writer Martin Perarnau and presented with his permission.

    The 'target' of the Liverpool Academy is twofold: to implement a common style of play in teams through all categories, and to provide players for the first team. When Rafa Benitez hired Pep Segura as head of the academy, Liverpool FC had three areas that were working completely seperately from each other:

    - Scouting
    - Technical Staff
    - Sports Science (doctors, physios, trainers)

    The target was to implement an integrated model of the style that currently exists in many Spanish clubs, so that all departments work in the same direction.

    The Liverpool training centre consists of four large age groups:

    1) Year 1 > Playing games, technical skills
    2) Year 2 + Children + Cadets > technical skills, tactical work starts, physical work starts
    3) Youth + Amateur Year 1 > technical skills, tactical work, physical work, psychological work
    4) Amateur + Reserves > technical skills, tactical work, physical work, psychological work

    The second group participates in the Under-15 Championship, the third group includes the U-17s and U-18s, and the fourth group plays in the Under-20s tournament and the Reserves. This team has been included in Pep Segura's area of responsiblity during the season just ended. The Academy focuses on organising the boys' training, education, and family accommodation in Liverpool.

    Pep Segura's Academy work is divided into five major areas:

    1) Facilities
    2) Selection of players
    3) Coaches
    4) Program (Syllabus)
    5) Management of the player

    For reasons of time, he could not detail each of these areas, but he did mention aspects of several of them.

    Facilities
    LFC have twelve training camps, ten on natural grass and two with artificial turf, plus one indoor for winter work. The facilities, according to Segura, are excellent, and not more physical infrastructure is needed.

    Selection of players
    Scouting is the responsibility of the department. Keep in mind that English law is very strict. Some examples:

    - Players up to 14 years can't be signed beyond a radius of 150 kilometers from the club (Liverpool competing in the same environment as Manchester United, City, Everton, and so forth)
    - The player is owned by the player’s home club /first club forever, this is the main reason why any price tag rises up.
    - You can't sign players outside the community (150km) until they are 16 years old
    - All games U-16 and U-18 are played on Saturdays at 11 am and from other categories, Sundays at 11 am This avoids the coaches come to watch opposing players of interest. Another peculiarity: the U-15 takes place on Wednesdays, which is almost unfeasible to train more than two days a week

    Liverpool work the Academy for sporting and economic necessity and because "we want to work with our players, but do so with our style of play." Segura found, after some time, Liverpool was repeating a pattern that he had already lived in the Barcelona: "Most youth players came from a particular geographical area and, especially, of a particular school."

    For scouting the club uses three essential parameters: selection from very young age, constant monitoring of all of them, and determining the precise moment of joining the club. The relevant department raises three questions: a) What is the player profile? B) Is player for Liverpool; c) will he make us grow as a team?

    We analyze four factors:
    - Technical: We appreciate the passing game (passing game)
    - Tactical: Your ability to play without the ball
    - Psychological: Your willingness to be professional
    - Physical: We value speed, strength and size (English football)

    Teams from different categories are structured in the form of a double pyramid

    - Between 8 and 11: 3 teams per category
    - Between 12 and 14 years: 2 teams per category
    - After 15 years: 1 team per category

    In the two years since Pep Segura as technical director, the Academy has doubled the number of players at his disposal. In the selection process, all are subject to a battery of physical and technical tests. These tests are also done to those at the Academy itself at sever instances each year to establish internal and external comparisons.

    Liverpool FC have identified three types of targets in the catchment:
    - Focus A: 14. Local Players
    - Focus B: 16. The 2 best in England plus 2 best foreign
    - Focus C: 18. Best English and / or foreign to compensate for the shortcomings identified in the Academy

    Program
    "The program is a great tool to implement and not just having a good criteria for selection of players. It's the idea and style that make an organization strong." Segura says an idea of strategic thinking is needed and from then on a basic understanding of principles of play and style, and an idea to work efficiently and consistent with the philosophy of the club.

    Segura says in this regard that the success of Spanish football are based on working with the Academy, which has created an excellent selection pool of players and it has put Spain at the top of European youth football, followed by France. However, he also believes that there si something wrong with Spanish football since that success does not correspond with the actual number of youth players who are actually getting a chance at senior level.

    The technical program of the Academy is based on a 4-2-3-1 system of play implemented by Rafa Benitez "although I would have preferred a 4-3-3, but England has historically used the 4-4-2 and we had to adapt." In the case of Liverpool, "using it as a key tool because our style is the passing game, where os our greatest impact".

    Stratification of training is as follows:
    - 8 to 12 years: 35 weeks of competition / weekly sessions 3
    - 13 to 15 years: 35 weeks of competition / weekly sessions 4-5
    - 16 to 18 years: 40 weeks of competition / weekly sessions 7-8
    - 19 to 21 years: 42 weeks of competition / weekly sessions 7-8

    The structure of a typical training session is as follows:
    1) Warm up
    2) Technical skills: especially in the passing game and to be offered before the pass
    3) Tactical skills: Automating offensive and defensive work, possession, Gale Related (reduced situations: from 1 to 1-5 against 5)
    4) Part games: Application of the stuff they've worked on
    5) End section: Gym, pitch work and stretching

    Automation: Work in all phases, from starting to move the ball in defense to the last pass, creating a meaning and order of play. "The small details are the ones that make them grow as players: body position, speed when striking the ball, the timing of his move at the right time ...." Games of position, with special incidence in the circulation at high speed, knowing the positions of the companions are defined and known.

    Recordings: The Academy records every game and every practice session with a very interesting point added: they also record the coaches' voices giving advice during sessions. It was a research conducted by the Liverpool University who took up the oral communication, which has yielded great results: "We have seen the deficiencies of the coaches and have corrected the messages. Some always corrected the same concepts and not others more important, or were fixated with some players."

    Finally, for Pep Segura the criteria to improve tactics are:
    - Everyone must do the same work
    - We must be inspired by street football
    - Street football is gone and we have to work hard to make up for it
    - We must use rectangular surfaces to work on depth and breadth
    - We must always breathe offensive spirit
    - Explain to children the meaning of 4-2-3-1 to understand it
    - Develop the game from the defensive line
    - Teaching the collective game based on our system
    - Emphasize creativity: the English player is disciplined and easy to learn automation and order, but Spanish is more creative and we must move in this direction
    - The Game Related is difficult to apply to players and coaches because they are awaiting orders. When they do receive it, they work hard, but they suffer when they have to bring own creativity

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    I'm going to take this to PM to stop it cluttering the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    ShamoBuc wrote: »
    How long will it take for this thread to get depressing?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/table/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    Gbear wrote: »
    Does the internet break if it gets much beyond 10k posts?

    According to the higher ups yes, some threads in AH and here caused problems by going over a couple of thousand posts so 10k seems to be the magic number.

    Also they said the hamsters need a rest every now and again :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    FFS! I was chatting with GK!
    It was more the fact you mentioned his height.

    It would seem from the reports of Sahin/Dempsey/Tello/Walcott that 'Pool are looking for an attacking player rather than an out and out forward (Whether this is the right move or not is another matter), and Isco ticks that box very well.

    5' 9" is frankly titchy in the Prem and yes I know Silva is the size of strapping 10 year old
    but that doesn't mean LFC needs another short arse! Once upon a time (Ged era) Owen stood out for being only 5' 8", he'd be one of the crowd the ways things are going.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭BINKY NIPPER


    Opr, why you post your username after every post? just wondering like


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭djPSB


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Seriously, what's the story with the ****ing commas?!

    His/her keyboard must be broke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Time to give a young striker his head,
    Give young players a chance, Could they really be worse
    than a guy on 100k a week who can only play for 2 mins,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    opr wrote: »
    I'd be speculating far too much to give any kind of a considered opinion. He has obviously been involved with shaping the clubs Academy with a common philosophy. While we're now trying to implement that throughout the club the connection he would bring from having developed that with our youth system to forging a connection to the first team I would have thought invaluable.

    Better than Pep explain his current role and what he could have offered in a more senior role.

    Opr




    I understand his old role was very important but I don't understand why he should get some new title as DoF or have been given a promotion. I don't see why he couldn't have liased with rodgers in his current role. My understanding of the panel system is that a group of people would have input in the the signings etc made. Not sure Segura should have that say or even sit on that panel. Not sure I even like the idea of a panel either, it's all very wishy-washy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Could we possibly attract Llorente?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    mike65 wrote: »
    5' 9" is frankly titchy in the Prem and yes I know Silva is the size of strapping 10 year old
    but that doesn't mean LFC needs another short arse! Once upon a time (Ged era) Owen stood out for being only 5' 8", he'd be one of the crowd the ways things are going.

    I wouldn't have said height matters so much these days, certainly not in the area Isco plays in. Most of the creative, technical players are on the short side.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Could we possibly attract Llorente?

    Don't think he's a Rodgers-style player, and I'd imagine there'd be a few clubs in the queue ahead of us.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    do any of ye think the stevie g situation needs resolution? He was the stand-out performer for England in the Euros (but that's not saying an awful lot) but his swashbuckling win-by-myself games are getting fewer and fewer; add to the fact that his B-Game is horrendous. A lot of players have a solid enough B-game, take Ya Ya Toure today he wasn't at his best by a long shot but still contributed a lot, stevie G seems to have an amazing A-game then complete anonymity, he goes completely AWOL in games. It looks like Rodgers is building for the future with him very much inked on to the team sheet, i just wonder is there any way out of this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Could we possibly attract Llorente?

    As with Isco/Sahin/whoever, it can't hurt to try.

    I wouldn't say you'd be someone he'd dismiss off the cuff, but you'd be lucky to get him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I'd play this way

    ________Reina_____

    __Skrtel__Agger_Enrique

    ________Lucas________

    ___Gerrard____Allen____

    Johnson_________Sterling

    _______Suarez________

    __________Borini______



    Coates for Enrique, Yep good idea, I forgot him, He is the forgotten man,,
    Play him more!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    I'd play this way

    ________Reina_____

    __Skrtel__Agger_Enrique

    ________Lucas________

    ___Gerrard____Allen____

    Johnson_________Sterling

    _______Suarez________

    __________Borini______

    Enrique at centre half? My god


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,983 ✭✭✭✭NukaCola


    I'd play this way

    ________Reina_____

    __Skrtel__Agger_Enrique

    ________Lucas________

    ___Gerrard____Allen____

    Johnson_________Sterling

    _______Suarez________

    __________Borini______

    Why :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Could we possibly attract Llorente?

    We'll sign Sahin before Llorente. I don't think there's any chance of us getting him


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Could we possibly attract Llorente?

    we couldn't afford him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Melion wrote: »
    Enrique at centre half? My god

    Yep
    Totally,
    Leave him to defend
    I'd have faith in him doing it,
    Just my opinion, Kelly another option,

    Johnson is screaming for a more attacking role,
    Something i'd try too,
    Hardly any worse than Downing,


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Yep
    Totally,
    Leave him to defend
    I'd have faith in him doing it,
    Just my opinion, Kelly another option,

    Johnson is screaming for a more attacking role,
    Something i'd try too,
    Hardly at worse than Downing,

    Coates?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    NukaCola wrote: »
    Why :pac:

    Balance,
    And defenders left to defend,
    Tried of seeing Enrique spending most of his time in
    opposing half,
    Just defend, Stay put would be my orders

    Lucas to patrol in front of back three
    Gerrard and Allen to stay center
    With Lucas as backup

    Keep it tight, Nothing flashy
    0-0 my aim

    If front four can nick me a goal so be it
    I think they can .

    1-0 TO US
    2-0 TO US
    Letting in 3, NO WAY


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    I understand his old role was very important but I don't understand why he should get some new title as DoF or have been given a promotion. I don't see why he couldn't have liased with rodgers in his current role. My understanding of the panel system is that a group of people would have input in the the signings etc made. Not sure Segura should have that say or even sit on that panel. Not sure I even like the idea of a panel either, it's all very wishy-washy.

    The structures were about much more than a panel for recruitment. It would have been about scouts to hire, youth coaches to hire, first team managers to hire, club philosophy, contract negotiations, wages and a million other things.
    This structure stays in place long after the manager has gone and you recruit another manager who suits the clubs philosophy. Anyway it's all moot now as it isn't happening.

    Opr


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭joe123


    Balance,
    And defenders left to defend,
    Tried of seeing Enrique spending most of his time in
    opposing half,
    Just defend, Stay put would be my orders

    Lucas to patrol in front of back three
    Gerrard and Allen to stay center
    With Lucas as backup

    Keep it tight, Nothing flashy
    0-0 my aim

    If front four can nick me a goal so be it
    I think they can .

    1-0 TO US
    2-0 TO US
    Letting in 3, NO WAY

    Beautiful. WB Yeats would be proud!:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,880 ✭✭✭✭klose


    I'd play this way

    ________Reina_____

    __Skrtel__Agger_Enrique

    ________Lucas________

    ___Gerrard____Allen____

    Johnson_________Sterling

    _______Suarez________

    __________Borini______



    Coates for Enrique, Yep good idea, I forgot him, He is the forgotten man,,
    Play him more!


    That has to one of the most bizzare line ups I've seen since I've gotten access to the soccer forum :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    opr wrote: »
    The structures were about much more than a panel for recruitment. It would have been about scouts to hire, youth coaches to hire, first team managers to hire, club philosophy, contract negotiations, wages and a million other things.
    This structure stays in place long after the manager has gone and you recruit another manager who suits the clubs philosophy. Anyway it's all moot now as it isn't happening.

    Opr


    I thought Segura had that power already, so what difference would a new fancy role make? Unless the hiring of Rodgers has taken that role away from him but I didn't think it did. Also, to me it seems we are working towards a panel it will just be smaller and final say will be given to Rodgers. Ayre will be in charge of contracts and wages, the Man city fellow will have input of scouting and potential signings. The old style panel just didnt sound very workable at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    I thought Segura had that power already, so what difference would a new fancy role make? Unless the hiring of Rodgers has taken that role away from him but I didn't think it did. Also, to me it seems we are working towards a panel it will just be smaller and final say will be given to Rodgers. Ayre will be in charge of contracts and wages, the Man city fellow will have input of scouting and potential signings. The old style panel just didnt sound very workable at all.

    He has this power within the youth setup. All of I posted above is in relation to the first team setup.

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    opr wrote: »
    He has this power within the youth setup. All of I posted above is in relation to the first team setup.

    Opr



    But that's the issue with Segura, I don't see why he should get any say in who signs for the first team, coaches, wages etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    But that's the issue with Segura, I don't see why he should get any say in who signs for the first team, coaches, wages etc.

    He doesn't? You asked if I thought he should be a DOF. I said it wouldn't work like that in that a number of people would have different roles all giving input. Segura in one of those roles I thought would be able to do a job. The committee as a whole decide these thing with varying level of input. The owners were suppose to have been big fans of his work in the Academy and thought that he should play a role in this committee. That's usually what happens in a workplace. If you do a good job you get a promotion to a new role if suitable and available that requires you to step up a level. His past experience of being involved in completely reshaping a broken Academy would I'm sure have stood to him in giving input to how we can reshape things to help fix a broken first team.

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    opr wrote: »
    He doesn't? You asked if I thought he should be a DOF. I said it wouldn't work like that in that a number of people would have different roles all giving input. Segura in one of those roles I thought would be able to do a job. The committee as a whole decide these thing with varying level of input. The owners were suppose to have been big fans of his work in the Academy and thought that he should play a role in this committee. That's usually what happens in a workplace. If you do a good job you get a promotion to a new role if suitable and available that requires you to step up a level. His past experience of being involved in completely reshaping a broken Academy would I'm sure have stood to him in giving input to how we can reshape things to help fix a broken first team.

    Opr



    That's why I asked what specific input he would provide. It seems that coming up with ideas to reshaping the first team is what he would do, not sure it's a role that involves a promotion and a brand new title. The problem is if Rodgers doesn't like/want to implement his ideas he basically has nothing to do, seems the smart idea would be to run those ideas bast Rodgers first before giving him a new role and if Rodgers doesn't like those ideas then don't give him a new role. Other option is to just hire him and if Rodgers doesn't like those ideas then to sack Rodgers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,463 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    tumblr_m4r9vuHDTh1r3uw24.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,267 ✭✭✭opr


    That's why I asked what specific input he would provide. It seems that coming up with ideas to reshaping the first team is what he would do, not sure it's a role that involves a promotion and a brand new title. The problem is if Rodgers doesn't like/want to implement his ideas he basically has nothing to do, seems the smart idea would be to run those ideas bast Rodgers first before giving him a new role and if Rodgers doesn't like those ideas then don't give him a new role. Other option is to just hire him and if Rodgers doesn't like those ideas then to sack Rodgers.

    I don't really care specifically about Segura? What is the obsession with him? The point is about having the structure. Who sits within that structure can be debated. I would just hope it's made up of a number of people with diverse backgrounds all of whom have good footballing knowledge with hopefully specific areas of expertise. Within that group of people they run the club. Rodgers should really have been hired by them to work within this structure as a first team coach. Rodgers coaches the first team and very little else. If he doesn't like that then yes we should have got someone else because I don't think he has the kind of CV or any actual experience in taking on the task he currently has at Liverpool.

    Opr


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    opr wrote: »
    I don't really care specifically about Segura? What is the obsession with him? The point is about having the structure. Who sits within that structure can be debated. I would just hope it's made up of a number of people with diverse backgrounds all of whom have good footballing knowledge with hopefully specific areas of expertise. Within that group of people they run the club. Rodgers should really have been hired by them to work within this structure as a first team coach. Rodgers coaches the first team and very little else. If he doesn't like that then yes we should have got someone else because I don't think he has the kind of CV or any actual experience in taking on the task he currently has at Liverpool.

    Opr


    My bad, I got the impression from your posts you were very disappointed he had left and I was wondering why such disappointment.


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