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scientifically illiterate politics

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    #32
    amadain17
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭amadain17


    Apologies if I have offended your belief system. I'm ''allowed'' to think as I like.

    You certainly are. You can believe in Fairies and the Easter Bunny and Noah's Ark as much as you want but you can't teach any of this in science class because it isn't science. This thread was about politicians, and people in powerful positions, having these silly beliefs and the fear that this could lead to laws that affect all of us. Teachers of our children also come into the powerful position category.


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    #33
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Matt_Trakker wrote: »
    Yea, I really don't get this type of stuff, I firmly believe that to hold a ministerial position you should have, at the very least, a Master Thesis achieved in the subject.

    And if you're a health minister you can't be fat or smoke.
    I agree they should have the education relevant to the work they do but I don't see how being fat or enjoying smoking has any baring on their ability to do their job. If we had a fit Mary Harney would she really be better at her job or worse because she'd be spending all her time in the gym?

    It's all about whether you can do the job, looks shouldn't come into it.


    Politicians are attention whores. All of them without exception would say the sky is green if it meant keeping their job.


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    #34
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,470 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Gurgle wrote: »
    I'm sure you won't mind providing a source for this gem?

    I can't, it's purely anecdotal and from what I've seen. I'd be interested to see a report on the professions of all politicians prior to entering politics. Is there such a one?


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    #35
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    squod wrote: »
    Do you seek permission from other monkeys before you make a decision?
    Well I wouldn't declare that a scientific discovery which was tested, studied and verified by lots of smarter monkeys is wrong. Even if I was convinced that my imaginary friend had planted all the evidence as a wind-up.


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    #36
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Jernal wrote: »
    It seems you're having difficulty with understanding the basics of evolution. You've also every right to believe that grass is red and that 1+1 =3 but don't expect us to think every kid should be taught the same.

    70% of people who voted, voted for people like this. Do you have an issue with understanding democracy?


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    #37
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    amadain17 wrote: »
    You certainly are. You can believe in Fairies and the Easter Bunny and Noah's Ark as much as you want but you can't teach any of this in science class because it isn't science. This thread was about politicians, and people in powerful positions, having these silly beliefs and the fear that this could lead to laws that affect all of us. Teachers of our children also come into the powerful position category.

    I'd imagine believing you're a monkey is way more dangerous to the nation than a belief in God.


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    #38
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,470 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    squod wrote: »
    Go ahead and believe your a monkey. As I said earlier you've every right to.

    We're actually apes, not monkeys.


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    #39
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    squod wrote: »
    70% of people who voted, voted for people like this. Do you have an issue with understanding democracy?

    No I don't. It's mob rule where 51% of the people can take away the rights of the other 49 if they so wish.* Thankfully, we don't live in a democracy.


    *Jefferson paraphrased..


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    #40
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    squod wrote: »
    Go ahead and believe your a monkey. As I said earlier you've every right to.



    Apologies if I have offended your belief system. I'm ''allowed'' to think as I like. Do you seek permission from other monkeys before you make a decision?

    You are a primate. You share a common ancestor on the path of evolution with other modern day primates. You are not a monkey, nor are any of the rest of us, but you do share a common ancestor. If you think this makes you a monkey, then what's failing you is your understanding of English. If, on the other hand, you think you're the divine equivalent of playdough, then you're entitled to that belief, but the rest of us are entitled to feel it's complete horseshít, and there's only supporting evidence for one of these positions.


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    #41
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I can't, it's purely anecdotal and from what I've seen. I'd be interested to see a report on the professions of all politicians prior to entering politics. Is there such a one?

    A dig around wikipedia gives this mix for the cabinet:

    Enda Kenny Teacher
    Eamonn Gilmore Unions
    Simon Coveney Farmer
    Jimmy Deenihan Footballer
    Frances Fitzgerald Social Worker
    Pat Rabbitte Unions
    Ruairi Quinn Architect
    Phil Hogan Teacher
    Michael Noonan Teacher
    James Reilly Medical Doctor
    Richard Bruton Economist
    Alan Shatter Solicitor
    Brendan Howlin Teacher
    Joan Burton Accountant
    Leo Varadkar Medical Doctor


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    #42
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    In all honesty I don't really care what they're professional background is prior to entering into politics. I'd just rather they actually had some aptitude and competency in their designated area.


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    #43
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    squod wrote: »
    I'd imagine believing you're a monkey is way more dangerous to the nation than a belief in God.
    It's not a believing it's a classification system, just like bottle nosed dolphins are a member of the porpoise family. Classification and knowing how mammals work, what makes them different and what sets them apart has huge benefits which allow us to do all sorts of things like test drugs on other animals rather than people. Believe in god just seems to make people believe incredulous nonsense despite all evidence to the contrary.


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    #44
    brandon_flowers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭brandon_flowers


    Gurgle wrote: »
    A dig around wikipedia gives this mix for the cabinet:

    Enda Kenny Teacher
    Eamonn Gilmore Unions
    Simon Coveney Farmer
    Jimmy Deenihan FootballerTeacher
    Frances Fitzgerald Social Worker
    Pat Rabbitte Unions
    Ruairi Quinn Architect
    Phil Hogan Teacher
    Michael Noonan Teacher
    James Reilly Medical Doctor
    Richard Bruton Economist
    Alan Shatter Solicitor
    Brendan Howlin Teacher
    Joan Burton Accountant
    Leo Varadkar Medical Doctor

    FYP

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/teachers-still-top-of-class-for-31st-dail-representation-2560128.html


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    #45
    MarkHitide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭MarkHitide


    squod wrote: »
    No he doesn't. Also, I take a bleak view of any ''scientician'' who manages to offend peoples beliefs in order to pleasure themselves.

    Scientitian


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    #46
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,382 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    squod wrote: »
    No he doesn't. Also, I take a bleak view of any ''scientician'' who manages to offend peoples beliefs in order to pleasure themselves.
    squod wrote: »
    I'm arguing for the right of people not to be made a monkey of. Believe this guys crap all you want. You have every right to.

    Likewise, people of faith should not be talked down to by some ejit.
    squod wrote: »
    I'd agree that the education I got during those years at a Catholic school was more than adequate.

    I didn't once have to listen to anyone try make a monkey out of me. If you would like to believe you're a monkey than that is your right. Once we don't step on each others toes in this dance it's all good.

    I was going to argue with you but I sincerely doubt anyone is so ignorant as to believe all of this.


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    #47
    Gbear
    Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    I presume the general notion of having a Senate is related to this - you've got one house of the common people and one house of people who are granted power based on their standing in the community.

    There are far too few scientists and engineers in politics. I'd say by their nature they're generally not suited to it - style over substance winning out every time.

    I'd be inclined to think that having some sort of technocracy at least in part, might be a good idea.
    Experts in various fields would be given some executive power by virtue of having more knowledge and technical experience than the ordinary punter.

    It kinda ties in with the whole "balance" notion propagated in the media - somehow it's seen as "balance" when you've got somebody pedaling bull**** like homeopathy being given equal air time as somebody basing their opinions on evidence.


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    #48
    gibraltar
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭gibraltar


    squod wrote: »
    I'd imagine believing you're a monkey is way more dangerous to the nation than a belief in God.


    Lets begin with a reality we both know, nobody believes they are monkeys, lets respect each other and not pretend otherwise ok?

    Now as for which has been more dangerous to Ireland - a belief in evolution or a belief in God (two things which as you know are not mutually exclusive) - have you ever heard of a decades long systematic cover up of child abuse by senior people associated with evolution in this country?

    now ask the same question about senior people associated with religion...


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Surprised this wasn't posted yet: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/atheists.png


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Anyway, as sad as it is when things like this come up one can only hope the great Hitchens, blessings and peace be upon him, was right when he reckoned that it's just the death-throes of widespread mysticism and idiocy.


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    #51
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    squod wrote: »
    I'd agree that the education I got during those years at a Catholic school was more than adequate.

    I didn't once have to listen to anyone try make a monkey out of me. If you would like to believe you're a monkey than that is your right. Once we don't step on each others toes in this dance it's all good.
    Catholic education in Ireland does not involve the substitution of fact with religious ideology. Sure, there may be some moral claims made in religion class with which people may disagree, but when it comes to the hard sciences the curriculum is free from religious bias.

    Whatever worldview you subscribe to may bring you to believe that evolution is a lie but the reality is that it is regarded as fact, a model so robust that it is no longer disputed. You mighn't care if they start teaching creationism in schools, but if you were to start transposing fact with fiction in other areas you might see how ridiculous it is to let ideology dictate course content. - imagine you had schools where they taught that water boiled at 150 degrees celcius and pi = 3, for example. I'm just thankful that whilst such nonsense may fly in America's Red States, it's laughed out of the room in Europe.

    And FYI evolution is taught in Biology class in Catholic schools, which is not exactly surprising given that the Church accepts evolution.


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    #52
    gibraltar
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭gibraltar


    Pace2008 wrote: »

    And FYI evolution is taught in Biology class in Catholic schools, which is not exactly surprising given that the Church accepts evolution.

    The big bang and evolution were also thought in religion class in my school.


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