Why do some gay men have a problem with bisexuals?

OldNotWIse

Lexplosii wrote: »

I'm a bisexual male, but I've noticed that I've had some negative reactions from otherwise interested men when I revealed the fact that I'm bi rather than gay. Why is this the case? It has only occured on two occasions, so maybe it was something else, but I have been told that there is a certain level of dissent.

Any experiences or explanations?

This is an answer from a lesbian so feel free to read or not!

I dont for one second condone the type of treatment that bisexuals report experiencing, but I am guilty of this too, for one reason (and I know I will be lynched for this): I cannot find the security to believe that they will not decide to opt for the "easier road" when the time comes to settle down, possibly get married, have kids etc. I know we talk about "falling in love with the gender and not the person" but I imagine if I was bi, I would try to just focus on the side that is attracted to men, because I think life is hard enough without making it harder, and I really want to have children. Maybe they just have a fear that you will decide upon the path of least resistance in time, and so its a self-preservation issue?

Again, not the views of many, just my brutal honesty!

stephen_n

I can't for the life of me understand, how monogomy, is going to be more difficult, for a bisexual person than a hetero or gay one. Monogomy is a choice the type, gender or quantity of people you are attracted to, is entirely irrelevant!

OldNotWIse

ongarboy wrote: »

I guess if I'm being honest, as a gay rather than a bi guy, I think I'd prefer only a gay over a bi for a relationship. I possibly would feel concerned that if I had a bi partner, there would be a risk they could move on to a woman. This is kind of a flawed point really cos any gay guy you could be with could also move onto another guy but somehow I think I could cope better with a guy leaving me for another guy than for a woman. I'm not even sure why that is the case but it is.

As it happens, I am comfortable with me and my partner fancying the same hot guy or even him fancying a guy that does nothing for me but would feel weird if I saw him lusting after a woman. Maybe it's because I can understand and even share that appreciation of the hot guy. Does this make sense?

This is purely from a relationship perspective and not about having a "problem" with their sexuality or them as people. I've no problem platonically with bi men or women. Then again, I've never had a situation where I've been with someone who I have strong feelings for and realise they are bi so all of the above is speculative.

My god, so true. I feel the same (gay woman). I would be devastated if my gf left me, but if she left me for a man I would never get over it...

Mace Windu

paulmorro wrote: »

No! Why is it? So you have hang ups about male relationships in general then? Everyone isn't the same. Gay men have LTRs. Bi people end up in relationships with either sex. Some people cheat, some don't, whatever the gender or sexuality.

No, I don't have hang ups about male relationships, and yes, I know gay men have LTRs. It's only been a year since mine (of 9 years) ended. I am completely comfortable being a gay man. And yet it doesn't mean that I don't realize that my life would have been easier were I straight, or that it's more difficult to find a gay man who values monogamous relationship than it is to find such straight woman.

Mace Windu

OldNotWIse wrote: »

but I imagine if I was bi, I would try to just focus on the side that is attracted to men, because I think life is hard enough without making it harder, and I really want to have children.

That's your bi-phobia speaking

Mace Windu

the_syco wrote: »

Are you saying gay men are souless people that can't love? Or have I taken what you said wrongly, as that does make you sound very homophobic.

I was writing about bisexual men. How you deduced that I think that gay men are soulless, I can't quite understand. Sorry.

the_syco wrote: »

Hrm. So you're either a homophobic gay man, or someone horribly insecure about their own sexuality...

How very sad.

OldNotWIse

baby and crumble wrote: »

My gf of 9 years is bisexual. We're completely monogomous, and I have no reason not to trust her completely. Yes, when I was younger I had a bee in my bonnet about her liking men, but that was me being insecure. I think it's insulting to bisexual people and their partners to assume that they will cheat. When someone says "well of course they'll go for a hetero relationship over a gay one" you are inherantly devaluing all gay relationships as 'less than', because if given the choice you believe everyone would want to be straight. I wouldn't. I'm very happy with who I am, and I wouldn't want my gf to be a lesbian, because being bi is part of who she is, and I love her. Why would I want to change that? And the suggestion that she'd leave me for a man as soon as she could is very insulting to me as an individual and as her partner.

I wish I could be like you!!!!!!!!!

OldNotWIse

Mace Windu wrote: »

That's your bi-phobia speaking

Bi-phobia? I'm not afraid of them

Medusa22

OldNotWIse wrote: »

This is an answer from a lesbian so feel free to read or not!

I dont for one second condone the type of treatment that bisexuals report experiencing, but I am guilty of this too, for one reason (and I know I will be lynched for this): I cannot find the security to believe that they will not decide to opt for the "easier road" when the time comes to settle down, possibly get married, have kids etc. I know we talk about "falling in love with the gender and not the person" but I imagine if I was bi, I would try to just focus on the side that is attracted to men, because I think life is hard enough without making it harder, and I really want to have children. Maybe they just have a fear that you will decide upon the path of least resistance in time, and so its a self-preservation issue?

Again, not the views of many, just my brutal honesty!

I understand what you mean about the ''easier road'', especially if you want children. However, to most of my friends and family, I was straight and I didn't tell them that I was bi-sexual because I made a choice to go out with men as I thought it would be easier than having to explain my sexuality. Then I met my girlfriend and I couldn't pretend any longer, and it wasn't easy for her either because she had only ever gone out with men before me. My point is that even though we are both bi and we could easily have just gone out with men to make our lives easier and nobody would be any wiser, we made the more difficult decision because of how we feel about each other and we are very happy. I think that bi-sexual people will choose the person they fall in love with, regardless of gender or what is easier.

Mace Windu

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Bi-phobia? I'm not afraid of them

Neither do I. But when I say that I don't consider bi-sexual men as potential boyfriends/partners/etc., I am told I am driven by bi-phobia. And I still can't understand why... Must be that English is not my native language...

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

Neither do I. But when I say that I don't consider bi-sexual men as potential boyfriends/partners/etc., I am told I am driven by bi-phobia. And I still can't understand why... Must be that English is not my native language...

Yes - you do realise that homophobia isn't exclusively about fear? Dictionary.com: unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

Mace Windu

I would then very much appreciate if you help me with another word. Just like bisexuals, I also don't consider people over certain age who have never been in a relationship before. What's the word for this? Is it "unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward" what?

OldNotWIse

paulmorro wrote: »

Yes - you do realise that homophobia isn't exclusively about fear? Dictionary.com: unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

But does "choosing not to go out with them" come under that definition?

paulmorro

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But does "choosing not to go out with them" come under that definition?

You're painting all of them under one very negative brush. The the reasoning behind the action that makes it biphobic IMO

Thumby

I'd have to agree with the OP to a certain extent. It does appear from my perspective(that of a straight woman with strong ties within the LGBT Community) that bi men in particular, tend to have a harder time being accepted by gay men.
I am by no means tarring all gay men with that brush, just stating my own experiences within the community. When i asked a very close friend of mine (gay man) why he had a problem with bi men, he said it was because it wasn't fair. That a bi man usually finds acceptance within the straight community easier because he dates women as well as men.(personally i think that not all people in the straight community may realise that a woman's bi boyfriend is actually bi, sometimes they are just labelled as extremely effeminate (sp?). Sorry slight tangent there, my point is my friends' reason for his attitude was jealously, pure and simple. Not a vindictive jealously, more a yearning for the same acceptance. (hope ya didn't mind me wading in on this) :-)

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

I would then very much appreciate if you help me with another word. Just like bisexuals, I also don't consider people over certain age who have never been in a relationship before. What's the word for this? Is it "unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward" what?

How in your head does that equate to the same thing. I'll try keep the language as simple as possible, to allow for your difficulties with the English language. If you look at someone and are not attracted to them because they are older than your preference, then it is a matter of attraction. If you look at someone, find them attractive, then find out they are bi and choose not presue it your on that basis your biphobic. refusing to date someone because of their sexuality isn't a preference it's ignorance! Would you regard it as ok for an employer to refuse you a job based on your sexuality?

Mace Windu

stephen_n wrote: »

I'll try keep the language as simple as possible, to allow for your difficulties with the English language.

Don't. I understand English very well

stephen_n wrote: »

How in your head does that equate to the same thing. If you look at someone and are not attracted to them because they are older than your preference, then it is a matter of attraction. If you look at someone, find them attractive, then find out they are bi and choose not presue it your on that basis your biphobic.

I look at a person and find them attractive. But next thing I learn that they've never had a boyfriend but have slept with the whole town. I choose not to pursue them. Is it what-phobic?

Same with bi.

In both cases, from my experience, the chances of it working out well are too slim to even bother saying hi.

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

Don't. I understand English very well



I look at a person and find them attractive. But next thing I learn that they've never had a boyfriend but have slept with the whole town. I choose not to pursue them. Is it what-phobic?

Same with bi.

In both cases, from my experience, the chances of it working out well are too slim to even bother saying hi.

There's a difference between behaviour and orientation. I would have thought a gay person would understand that better than anyone

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

There's a difference between behaviour and orientation. I would have thought a gay person would understand that better than anyone

If, from my experience, a person does not possess what I think it takes for a successful relationship with me, then whether it's orientation or behaviour is a purely academic question.

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

If, from my experience, a person does not possess what I think it takes for a successful relationship with me, then whether it's orientation or behaviour is a purely academic question.

If someone said they wouldn't date a black person because they'll probably cheat, is that ok?

Thumby

@ mace windu, surely judging someone on their past history is plain and simple prejudice? The same with a guy being bi? You are making predetermined assumptions about them based on the fact that he has been with women as well as men, and completely ignoring him as a person. I know plenty of gay men who were in their past with women before they came out, would you hold that against a gay man the same way you would a man who is bi?

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

If, from my experience, a person does not possess what I think it takes for a successful relationship with me, then whether it's orientation or behaviour is a purely academic question.

And you don't see how that could be construed as bigoted? Its just as bad as avoiding blacks cause you heard they might be more dangerous, or someone not wanting to employ a gay person, cause "I don't want to work with a flamer"!

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

If someone said they wouldn't date a black person because they'll probably cheat, is that ok?

If it was true, why not? It's not, but I'll give you another example, which is true. In some countries, just like bisexuals, you wouldn't hope to "live happily ever after" with someone from a Muslim family, because most of them will give in to their family's pressure and marry. 99.9% of them. Is it islamo-phobic to say that? No. It's just true.

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

If it was true, why not? It's not, but I'll give you another example, which is true. In some countries, just like bisexuals, you wouldn't hope to "live happily ever after" with someone from a Muslim family, because most of them will give in to their family's pressure and marry. 99.9% of them. Is it islamo-phobic to say that? No. It's just true.

I've bolded the parts of your post that you claim to be fact. I've underlined the parts of your post that don't have anything to back them up.

Just repeating over and over things like: "common knowledge"; "everyone knows"; "It's true"; don't actually make them true

bodice ripper

Mace Windu wrote: »

If it was true, why not? It's not, but I'll give you another example, which is true. In some countries, just like bisexuals, you wouldn't hope to "live happily ever after" with someone from a Muslim family, because most of them will give in to their family's pressure and marry. 99.9% of them. Is it islamo-phobic to say that? No. It's just true.

you are more likely to be raped by a man than a woman, shall we all avoid men?

Mace Windu

Thumby wrote: »

@ mace windu, surely judging someone on their past history is plain and simple prejudice? The same with a guy being bi? You are making predetermined assumptions about them based on the fact that he has been with women as well as men, and completely ignoring him as a person. I know plenty of gay men who were in their past with women before they came out, would you hold that against a gay man the same way you would a man who is bi?

No, it's not prejudice. Making conclusions from previous experience is what makes us human. Otherwise we'd still live in the trees, because we wouldn't be smart enough to remember to avoid lions.

This skill (generalization and prediction) has helped us all survive, so I don't see why I would discard it just because there is a 0.0000001% chance that I might actually be happy with that guy who slept with the whole town (and partly the suburbs).

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

If it was true, why not? It's not, but I'll give you another example, which is true. In some countries, just like bisexuals, you wouldn't hope to "live happily ever after" with someone from a Muslim family, because most of them will give in to their family's pressure and marry. 99.9% of them. Is it islamo-phobic to say that? No. It's just true.

What you're saying IS NOT TRUE! You've just decided it is. I'm bi... 2 year relationship, no plans to hop the wall for convenience. You are painting all bi's with the one brush. You've pretty much done the same to gay men as well. You are biphobic and I wouldn't be holding you up as a homosexual poster child either.

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

I've bolded the parts of your post that you claim to be fact. I've underlined the parts of your post that don't have anything to back them up.

Just repeating over and over things like: "common knowledge"; "everyone knows"; "It's true"; don't actually make them true

But you don't even know what countries I am talking about :eek:

Thumby

Do you have statistics to prove that 99.9% of muslim relationships/marriages aren't "happily ever after" windu? No you don't, because there is evidence to back up that number. So yes that is anti-islamac and prejudice. You are just exchanging one word (bi) for another (islamic).

Thumby

Is no evidence*(sorry can't edit posts on my phone)

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

But you don't even know what countries I am talking about :eek:

Well unless it's.... wait, no, the country doesn't actually matter, you still have nothing to base your assumptions on

Mace Windu

bodice ripper wrote: »

you are more likely to be raped by a man than a woman, shall we all avoid men?

We all make educated guesses and take the risks we are ready to take.

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

Well unless it's.... wait, no, the country doesn't actually matter, you still have nothing to base your assumptions on

You are a happy person if you think that people all over the world can actually be with who they choose to be

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

You are a happy person if you think that people all over the world can actually be with who they choose to be

Did I say that? Or is it just another total generalisation you've made from very little data?

Thumby

There is a difference between coming to a conclusion and making an assumption. An assumption is based on partial evidence, while a conclusion is based on using all available evidence to form an opinion. In the case of bi men, you have an assumption made that a relationship wouldn't work based on certain points, mainly that they were also with women. However you would refuse to give an individual, faithful and loyal bi man, who only does long term relationships for example a chance just because of your previous assumptions, instead of getting to know him on an individual level? Tell me how thats a conclusion, please?

bodice ripper

Perhaps bi men settle with women because of the well known fact that gay men are promiscuous...

Mace Windu

Thumby wrote: »

There is a difference between coming to a conclusion and making an assumption. An assumption is based on partial evidence, while a conclusion is based on using all available evidence to form an opinion. In the case of bi men, you have an assumption made that a relationship wouldn't work based on certain points, mainly that they were also with women. However you would refuse to give an individual, faithful and loyal bi man, who only does long term relationships for example a chance just because of your previous assumptions, instead of getting to know him on an individual level? Tell me how thats a conclusion, please?

I've seen gay-gay and gay-bi relationships, and based on what I saw I made a conclusion that the chances of a relationship working with a bisexual man are way lower than with a gay man. I never said they are 0%. Just so low that I can't be bothered to try.

You may have an indefinite life, but I don't. And yes, I am going to use any clues, and any experience I have so far to maximize my chance of meeting someone with whom my relationship has the highest chance of succeeding.

What's wrong with all of you? Why are you trying to persuade me that I am all wrong and bi-phobic? It's my life, I am not denying anyone employment, or turning them away from the office where I work for simply being bi. I simply don't want to have them as "other half" because I don't believe it's ever going to work.

It looks more like you are trying to persuade yourself that you've seen dozens and hundreds of happy gay-bi families. Have you all seen at least one? (I am talking about male families here).

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

I've seen gay-gay and gay-bi relationships, and based on what I saw I made a conclusion that the chances of a relationship working with a bisexual man are way lower than with a gay man. I never said they are 0%. Just so low that I can't be bothered to try.

You may have an indefinite life, but I don't. And yes, I am going to use any clues, and any experience I have so far to maximize my chance of meeting someone with whom my relationship has the highest chance of succeeding.

What's wrong with all of you? Why are you trying to persuade me that I am all wrong and bi-phobic? It's my life, I am not denying anyone employment, or turning them away from the office where I work for simply being bi. I simply don't want to have them as "other half" because I don't believe it's ever going to work.

It looks more like you are trying to persuade yourself that you've seen dozens and hundreds of happy gay-bi families. Have you all seen at least one? (I am talking about male families here).

Why are you trying to persuade us that you're right? Why don't you go live your life?

This is a discussion board, if you're not interested in a discussion, there's not much point being here

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

Why are you trying to persuade us that you're right? Why don't you go live your life?

This is a discussion board, if you're not interested in a discussion, there's not much point being here

But I am not trying to persuade you that my opinion is right. All I wrote in my very first response was that "I'd never consider a bisexual man etc."

And everyone, for several pages already, is trying to tell me how shallow and bi-phobic I am

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

But I am not trying to persuade you that my opinion is right. All I wrote in my very first response was that "I'd never consider a bisexual man etc."

And everyone, for several pages already, is trying to tell me how shallow and bi-phobic I am

So? If you don't care and don't want a discussion, why do you continue to post?

Thumby

@mace, i'm not judging you or trying to convince myself of anything, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and to live by them. Providing you aren't hurting anyone else by doing so. I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. There are certain statements you have made which are completely illogical and i have merely pointed out some of them. No i haven't seen hundreds of gay-bi relationships that have worked. Nor have i seen hundreds of gay-gay, lesbian-lesbian, straight-straight relationships that work. But i have seen some in each category that do work.
I'm not immortal'of course my life is limited and that is precisely why i choose to take chances that may not work out, because i don't want to pass up that chance that maybe, that one person i think i shouldn't give a chance, is the person i'm supposed to be with. I wouldn't run the risk of losing that because of assumptions.

Sonics2k

Mace Windu wrote: »

I'd never have a relationship with a bi guy. It's just unrealistic to expect them to commit to a gay relationship. And it's not to blame them — I'd eventually settle for a hetero relationship too, if I was bi.

Surely they'd commit to a relationship with a person they loved?

I was with a girl who I knew was bi for just over a year. She's currently in a relationship with a girl for some three years and as far as I know, they're doing great.

It's not them you're afraid, it's your own insecurity that seems to be the logical issue. Much like anyone else who's concerned a partner may cheat on them or go for the 'grass is greener' option. Nothing to do with sexuality, just some people are dicks.

It's actually quite sad to think you'd turn someone you could potentially fall in love with, and spend a life with, based on a sexual attraction.

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

Don't. I understand English very well



I look at a person and find them attractive. But next thing I learn that they've never had a boyfriend but have slept with the whole town. I choose not to pursue them. Is it what-phobic?

Same with bi.

In both cases, from my experience, the chances of it working out well are too slim to even bother saying hi.

So your saying that being bi equates to someone who is promiscuous! That is a massive generalisation based on ignorance, lack of understanding and tollerance! So your not biphobic your just ignorant then?

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

So? If you don't care and don't want a discussion, why do you continue to post?

It's somewhat difficult to withdraw from a discussion if its subject is yourself

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

It's somewhat difficult to withdraw from a discussion if its subject is yourself

Do you not see why people are annoyed with your lazy stereotypes and generalisations?

Mace Windu

Would they be annoyed, they wouldn't have tried to convince me how wrong I am (and how sorry for me they are) for several pages

I think everybody knows deep inside that a stable male gay couple is a rare thing (no, not for one year or a couple of years, but let's say over 5 or even over 10), and a couple where one is bisexual is even more rare. If the latter even exist at all.

Lexplosii

Wow, looks like I opened a can of worms here! Maybe I should just keep quiet about my heterosexual side if I like a guy next time!

bodice ripper

Mace Windu wrote: »

Would they be annoyed, they wouldn't have tried to convince me how wrong I am (and how sorry for me they are) for several pages

I think everybody knows deep inside that a stable male gay couple is a rare thing (no, not for one year or a couple of years, but let's say over 5 or even over 10), and a couple where one is bisexual is even more rare. If the latter even exist at all.

I'll take the ban or whatever.

You are a bigot, worse because being a minority you should know better. You are a jerk of the highest order, and I hope you grow old alone.

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

Would they be annoyed, they wouldn't have tried to convince me how wrong I am (and how sorry for me they are) for several pages

I think everybody knows deep inside that a stable male gay couple is a rare thing (no, not for one year or a couple of years, but let's say over 5 or even over 10), and a couple where one is bisexual is even more rare. If the latter even exist at all.

Who is this "everybody"?. It's not me. It's not most people in this discussion.

You might think those things but it doesn't mean they are true and it certainly doesn't mean that "everybody knows"

I think it's even more annoying when you try and project your own thought onto "everybody"

Mace Windu

mango salsa wrote: »

Who is this "everybody"?. It's not me. It's not most people in this discussion.

You might think those things but it doesn't mean they are true and it certainly doesn't mean that "everybody knows"

I think it's even more annoying when you try and project your own thought onto "everybody"

But I'm not trying to convince anyone I just wrote that I don't view bisexual men as potential partners because I've never seen it work.