Children refusing to move abroad - advice needed!

dark crystal

Right folks, I need a bit of advice here.....Basically, my partner and I have decided (after a lot of discussion) to move to the UK next year due to a few reasons - better job opportunities, better living standards, cheaper education, closer to family etc.

I have two daughters, aged 12 and 13, from a previous relationship who are steadfastly against the idea of moving abroad altogether and it's causing an awful lot of stress, upset and anxiety for everyone.

Firstly, they are saying they don't want to leave their dad. I completely understand this, but they only see him every other week-end and even at that, they try to get out of it frequently as he often just palms them off on his mother when it's his time to see them anyway. I've discussed the move with him and he has agreed to it and understands it would mean a better future for the children.

Secondly, they have very close friends living on the street and spend most of their free time with them. They are very upset at the thought of leaving them altogether and don't believe they'll make friends in the UK.

Thirdly, they wouldn't have the best relationship with my partner. When their dad and I split up 9 years ago, it was just them and me for three years until I met my partner, who I've been with now for 6 years. Everything was fine until we had our son 2 and a half years ago and it seemed to go downhill after that. I suspect some jealousy entered the picture then and although my partner has gone out of his way to try and improve the relationship with them, he keeps coming up against a brick wall - the atmosphere is awful at times and they're now blaming the move on him entirely.

They are asking to be allowed to live with their dad instead of moving which just isn't an option. He's really not the most responsible father and besides, this move is happening to benefit them most of all.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm honestly at my wit's end here and am wondering if anyone has experienced this at all and could give me any advice. I don't want to have to drag my daughters kicking and screaming, but at this stage, it's looking like they have no intention of making this move willingly and it's upsetting for all of us.

Moonbeam

If you have always lived in the same place with the same friends ,the thoughts of moving to another country with your mother and her partner would not be the most appealing to you either would it?

They are young,their friends are their lives.

I reckon you discuss it with them rather then telling them even if your intentions are the same and maybe discuss after a year there if it is that bad that you will look at alternatives.

I also get the annoying "stepfather" thing and I think if it probably best for you to deal with this one with your girls alone as his involvement may push them further against it.


Also at the end of the day you are the adult and you need to do what is best for all of you.

dark crystal

Thanks for the reply, Moonbeam

I have never been dictatorial about the situation with them - I have always made it a discussion, both with and without my partner, never in a 'This is what we're doing and that's that' kind of way.

I have outlined the reasons for the move, shown them the area and the schools they'd be moving to, assured them that they would make new friends and still see their dad. I completely understand their trepidation (I was moved abroad when I was 10 myself), but I seem to be going round in circles with them at this stage and they're just not budging at all.
No matter how I try to explain the situation, it just won't wash with them at all and they are refusing to go full stop.
I hate the thought of forcing them to leave everything behind, but if I don't move from where I am, I will soon be 40 and stuck in the same rut I am now and be even more desperately unhappy.

Anyone else I know who has emigrated doesn't have children, so I have no one else to turn to for advice. This move has to happen, I just wish my children could meet me somewhere halfway and make this decision so much less stressful. I know I'll have to put my foot down and go regardless, but it would be so much easier having my daughters on board with me.

golden lane

dark crystal wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, Moonbeam

I have never been dictatorial about the situation with them - I have always made it a discussion, both with and without my partner, never in a 'This is what we're doing and that's that' kind of way.

I have outlined the reasons for the move, shown them the area and the schools they'd be moving to, assured them that they would make new friends and still see their dad. I completely understand their trepidation (I was moved abroad when I was 10 myself), but I seem to be going round in circles with them at this stage and they're just not budging at all.
No matter how I try to explain the situation, it just won't wash with them at all and they are refusing to go full stop.
I hate the thought of forcing them to leave everything behind, but if I don't move from where I am, I will soon be 40 and stuck in the same rut I am now and be even more desperately unhappy.

Anyone else I know who has emigrated doesn't have children, so I have no one else to turn to advice from. This move has to happen, I just wish my children could meet me somewhere halfway and make this decision so much less stressful. I know I'll have to put my foot down and go regardless, but it would be so much easier having my daughters on board with me.

if you know where you are going in the uk......can you find out what awaits them locally and in the wider area....

sell them the benifits etc....

kids in the uk are very much the same as those in ireland......

CrazyRabbit

From your post, it seems that there were already issues before this move was proposed. The move has just inflamed these issues.

Until you address and resolve these underlying issues, this move will not go smoothly and could seriously damage your relationship with the girls. The fact that they are proposing staying here with their father who doesn't even pay much attention to them, is a good indication of how serious this is to them.

dark crystal

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

From your post, it seems that there were already issues before this move was proposed. The move has just inflamed these issues.

Until you address and resolve these underlying issues, this move will not go smoothly and could seriously damage your relationship with the girls. The fact that they are proposing staying here with their father who doesn't even pay much attention to them, is a good indication of how serious this is to them.

Oh I agree there are underlying issues between my daughters and my partner. Like I said before, we have tried numerous times to sort out these issues by talking it out with them (both together and seperately) and they still continue to be disrespectful to him almost every day. If he says anything to them at all, he gets eyes raised to heaven or under the breath utterances and storming out, slamming doors.
He's tried taking them out shopping, taking them to the cinema, giving them weekly pocket money, praising their achievements and arranging drama classes for them - more than their own father ever does for them, tbh. There just seems to be a certain stubborness on their part not to like him!

Should I really be letting them dictate major decisions like this? We've done our best to explain to and reassure them about the move, but at the end of the day, I'm the parent! Right now, it feels like all the explainations and reassurances in the world just aren't going to work with them at all.

Sleepy

dark crystal wrote: »

Should I really be letting them dictate major decisions like this?

No. Would I be right is suspecting you've backed down on other things before?

TBH, it sounds like you've let them away with too much already. They think they're in the driving seat because you've allowed them to treat your partner so disrespectfully. Of course allowances for a little acting out have to be made in the initial introduction phase but 6 years later it's utterly unacceptable.

They don't have to love your new partner but they have to both treat him with respect, and assuming you want him to play a parenting role, his authority within that role.

Seems to me that this could be a good line in the sand issue imo. Your children need to understand that you're the boss and, in your shoes, I'd be withholding pocket money, grounding them and taking away privileges such as mobile phones, internet usage, TV etc. until they realise who's boss.

Big Bag of Chips

You say you've never dictated about the situation to them... Well maybe now is the time to start.

If the move is non negotiable, and staying with their dad is not an option then you have to stop 'discussing' it with them, and let them know its happening. For definite.

I think you are probably being a bit wishy-washy about it, so they think there is room for negotiation, and maybe they can persuade you not to go at all.

They will miss their dad. They will really really miss their friends. There will be tears and tantrums, and you will be 'a horrible mother' and 'you don't care about them' etc...

But they'll get over it.

But you need to be firm and confident in your decision, and let them know that it is not up for discussion.

(actually, how much time is spent discussing it? Maybe its time to stop talking about it for a while. No more discussion. No more cajoling. Bring it up again much closer to the time)

Daisy M

dark crystal wrote: »

Oh I agree there are underlying issues between my daughters and my partner. Like I said before, we have tried numerous times to sort out these issues by talking it out with them (both together and seperately) and they still continue to be disrespectful to him almost every day. If he says anything to them at all, he gets eyes raised to heaven or under the breath utterances and storming out, slamming doors.
He's tried taking them out shopping, taking them to the cinema, giving them weekly pocket money, praising their achievements and arranging drama classes for them - more than their own father ever does for them, tbh. There just seems to be a certain stubborness on their part not to like him!

Should I really be letting them dictate major decisions like this? We've done our best to explain to and reassure them about the move, but at the end of the day, I'm the parent! Right now, it feels like all the explainations and reassurances in the world just aren't going to work with them at all.

Has somebody been poisioning your children against your partner? It seems unusual to me that young children would hold a grudge for so long against someone who treats them well. Maybe you need to sit them down and present them with the facts of how well they have been treated and how they have reacted and find out their reasons are, they may actually have valid ones that you have not been aware of or it may just be because they can.
Is it possible to make a trip to the uk before you move so they know whats ahead for them?

CrazyRabbit

You may want to try get a 3rd party...someone completely neutral to talk to your daughters. Primarily, this would be to find out why they have such a problem with your partner. This is probably the biggest reason why they don't want to move to the UK. To them, it's probably symbolises accepting that your relationship with your partner is permanent, and they don't actually want to accept this.

OldRio

Why are you really moving ?
I can understand the better work prospects but 'cheaper education' ? Do you really want to burden your children with £9,000 each per year on 3rd level education fees.
As mentioned elsewhere guidance from a third party would be of benefit.

dharma200

I am afraid I would drag them kicking and screaming.

I would also sit down, with ex and girls for 'THE TALK'... show unity and have a ready drawn list of all the plus sides of moving... a list of the percieved negatives and how these negatives can be addressed ie; not seeing friends -allocated holidays set in stone, talk to friends parents with view to them visiting for holidays etc
For each negative you anticipate you must have a some sort of soloution to show them it will not be so bad.

I think you and their father have to sit down together and then sit down with girls and calmly say there is no choice, however this is how we are going to make it easier for you both.

Failing all of that, kicking and screaming..... hope it works out for you...

dark crystal

Thanks so much for all your replies.

Yes, I believe I have been too soft on them regarding my partner and have let them away with too much, simply because of guilt. Whenever I discipline them regards their backchat, I get the whole 'You're always taking his side - you love him more than us' speech thrown at me and I feel awful that they'd ever think that. I know I need to be firmer in that regard - absolutely.

I haven't thought about a united talk with their dad actually. That's a very good idea and I'll have a chat to him about doing that as soon as possible.

After that, looks like the 'kicking and screaming' plan will have to suffice

byrnem31

Your two children are more important than your partner ever will be. They are at the hardest stage of development in a persons life and this could upset them further.
My partner will no go to Australia with me as her child from a previous relationship will miss his Grandma too much. That means tough cookies to me. The Earth revolves around him either way and she puts him first over me any day of the week. I do the same myself either way with the child as that's the way its meant to be.
In life you get stuck in a rut no matter where you go. Accept their wishes and if you wait just a few more years they can get their own places and you can move without them.

Dwaegon

I apologise in advance if this all sounds very negative, but I'm going to try play devil's advocate here. I hope it helps you.

dark crystal wrote: »

Right folks, I need a bit of advice here.....Basically, my partner and I have decided (after a lot of discussion) to move to the UK next year due to a few reasons - better job opportunities, better living standards, cheaper education, closer to family etc.

Living standards are what you make them yourself. Just because a country has a higher aggregate standard of life, does not make the conditions you will have automatically superior to what you have in Ireland now. If you move into a wreck of a house, you won't be living the high life just because you live in the UK.

Cheaper education? That's all well and good until 3rd level! £9,000, and that's with you having two kids with only a year apart between them! I tell you, it might be better job prospects at this time, but the savings you'll make on 2nd level is outweighed in a goliath way when the time comes for 3rd level. And if you cannot afford it for one or even both of them, then their job prospects pretty much fly out the window, or they'll have to emigrate, which means being uprooted and moving country all over again.

Closer to family is no reason at all, because unless the entirety of your family is living in one great big commune, you'll be moving further away from someone. Besides, you're moving them away from their father, and they are possibly in some way seeing this as a means for your new partner to replace him. And what about their family on their father's side? In terms of your kids and moving to be closer to family, I find that point unacceptable as you are taking them away from their father, regardless of how irresponsible he may be, he's still a very important part of them.

I honestly think you will have to drag those poor children kicking and screaming! And I think that there's a good chance they will resent you for it, at least for a while, especially considering there are two of them and they will each feel like they should have as much say as you and your partner. They will probably blame your new partner and the baby somewhat, and that relationship will take a good long time to heal. They will probably adjust, given time, as that is what people do. But in their minds they will be making the best of a bad situation. Leaving their father will probably cause them to miss him a lot, and they will possibly direct a lot of that emotion at you and your partner, seeing you as the cause of why they cannot see him.

You can rationalise it all you want to the kids, you can list any number of reasons why it's a good move, you can make all sorts of promises about new friends and a better life, but your children are at an age where their friends are their most precious commodity, and you're giving them a situation where they have nothing to lose unless they fight you on this move.

I honestly wish you all the luck in the world with this move! I hope you find some way to make this easier on your family and I hope it all works out for the best!

hoodwinked

dark crystal wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your replies.

Yes, I believe I have been too soft on them regarding my partner and have let them away with too much, simply because of guilt. Whenever I discipline them regards their backchat, I get the whole 'You're always taking his side - you love him more than us' speech thrown at me and I feel awful that they'd ever think that. I know I need to be firmer in that regard - absolutely.

I haven't thought about a united talk with their dad actually. That's a very good idea and I'll have a chat to him about doing that as soon as possible.

After that, looks like the 'kicking and screaming' plan will have to suffice

to be fair at that age they are starting to become moody teenagers, and it will make things more difficult for you and your partner.

i was 16 when my mum met her partner and i was a bitch to him even though he always did good by me,

now looking back im embarrassed and ive apologised more than once. but we are in a great place where he is like a dad to me, he recently walked me down the aisle.

to be fair i don't think there is much you can do, i would agree with the poster who said get help from a 3rd party.

at 12 teenagers start a difficult journey of finding out who they are, they could probably do with someone who can un-biasedly listen to them. i know if i had had that i may not have been so much trouble!

Sleepy

At roughly that age (13) my family moved across the country from Bray to Galway. There was never any debate or discussion on it: we were told "we're moving to Galway". My parents did, however, do a few things that helped make the move easier for us. They may not all be possible for you but worth throwing out there:

We were brought to Galway for a long weekend a few months before the move and had our first stay in a proper hotel (rather than a guesthouse). Think my Dad's work picked up the tab for it since they were re-locating him for a promotion but the novelty of getting to stay in a hotel really made it for us. Perhaps you could find a groupon/livingsocial deal for a hotel in the area you'll be moving to?

We were let give our opinions on houses we went to see and, even if our parents made the ultimate decision, we were let choose how we wanted to re-decorate our new rooms.

During our first week in the new house, we all get presents equivalent to what we'd usually get for Christmas (I got my first PC).

We were all allowed to have a "moving party" equivalent to our usual birthday parties to say goodbye to our friends.

At that age, they'll write to/email friends for a few years but more than likely their old friends will be forgotten once they've settled into their new environment.

SerialComplaint

I'm a bit surprised by much of the 'tough love, they'll get used to it' posts here on this thread. This is a very critical age for kids, and for girls in particular. Losing all their roots at a time like could indeed be a huge issue for them. It could really destabilise them, and create a even larger family divide. I'd be particularly worried about them going off the rails in the UK.

If they don't buy in to it, don't force them to go. Maybe staying with their Dad is a better option for them, and maybe he can be a responsible Dad when required. Or maybe you should put off the move until they finish secondary school, and set their expectation that you're not going to be around for the college years, so they need to plan for independence at that stage.

Sleepy

How on earth would the OP be ever able to control her children again if she allowed them to over-rule her on such a large decision?

They'd see such a back-down as a massive sign that they're the one's in charge and that would completely ruin them in their teenage years.

Daisy M

Sleepy wrote: »

How on earth would the OP be ever able to control her children again if she allowed them to over-rule her on such a large decision?

They'd see such a back-down as a massive sign that they're the one's in charge and that would completely ruin them in their teenage years.

I agree ultimately parents should have the final decision and control but I think this is not a black or white case. From what I gather it is the ops partner whos family live in the UK, so these children are been taken away from all their own family members and friends and indeed their own father. Their new sibling will be surrounded by family, mum and her husband have both been promised jobs that appeal to them and have been guaraunteed family support but whats in it for them?

I don't mean to be offensive op I can see what is in it for you and your partner but I can't see how your children will benefit, I wouldnt consider the standard of living in the UK better than I reland or even nearly as good, college is more expensive and they will not be near their family. If your reasons for moving are because you are not happy it is better to be honest with them.

dark crystal

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I'm a bit surprised by much of the 'tough love, they'll get used to it' posts here on this thread. This is a very critical age for kids, and for girls in particular. Losing all their roots at a time like could indeed be a huge issue for them. It could really destabilise them, and create a even larger family divide. I'd be particularly worried about them going off the rails in the UK.

As I mentioned in my OP, one of the main reasons we're moving is a better quality of life for them.

Long story short, when their dad and I split up, we were made virtually homeless (his house, his mortgage). I had to apply for a council house and that's what we got. The area we live in is high in crime and we have the neighbours from hell (from a certain community....). Our house has been burgled twice, there's been two murders in our estate alone over the past three years and many of the kids around here are lawless yobs, pure and simple. I see an attitude developing in my children that worries me a lot and I suspect it's mirroring the attitude they see around the estate.

I've applied for transfers, but the chances of us ever being moved out of here is virtually nil (told this both by the council and two TD's I contacted). We can't afford private rent or a mortgage on my partner's wages and my part-time wages. Not a hope. We barely get by at the moment as it is.

If we move to the UK, my partner's uncle has a much better paid job waiting for him over there, I also have a job waiting if I need it that will pay more than I'm currently earning. My partner's mother is more than willing to provide any childcare we need.
Best of all, the area we are moving to is lovely and much lower in crime (Old Windsor) and the kids have been there before and like it.

This isn't a selfish decision I'm making - I'm trying to improve all our lives. If I don't make this leap now, I dread to think what their futures may turn out like stuck in this place. It may disrupt their lives in the short-term,yes, but in the long term I hope it'll give them better prospects for the future. No one has a crystal ball, but I honestly believe I'm doing the right thing for everyone here.

SerialComplaint

Sleepy wrote: »

How on earth would the OP be ever able to control her children again if she over-ruled them on such a large decision?

Fixed your post there.

movingsucks

Hi Dark Crystal,

Have you tried divide and conquer?
Maybe take each girl out for some one on one time and explain the benefits you see for HER in this move, give her a chance to air her own fears without any screaming and shouting etc ?

Daisy M

dark crystal wrote: »

As I mentioned in my OP, one of the main reasons we're moving is a better quality of life for them.

Long story short, when their dad and I split up, we were made virtually homeless (his house, his mortgage). I had to apply for a council house and that's what we got. The area we live in is high in crime and we have the neighbours from hell (from a certain community....). Our house has been burgled twice, there's been two murders in our estate alone over the past three years and many of the kids around here are lawless yobs, pure and simple. I see an attitude developing in my children that worries me a lot and I suspect it's mirroring the attitude they see around the estate.

I've applied for transfers, but the chances of us ever being moved out of here is virtually nil (told this both by the council and two TD's I contacted). We can't afford private rent or a mortgage on my partner's wages and my part-time wages. Not a hope. We barely get by at the moment as it is.

If we move to the UK, my partner's uncle has a much better paid job waiting for him over there, I also have a job waiting if I need it that will pay more than I'm currently earning. My partner's mother is more than willing to provide any childcare we need.
Best of all, the area we are moving to is lovely and much lower in crime (Old Windsor) and the kids have been there before and like it.

This isn't a selfish decision I'm making - I'm trying to improve all our lives. If I don't make this leap now, I dread to think what their futures may turn out like stuck in this place. It may disrupt their lives in the short-term,yes, but in the long term I hope it'll give them better prospects for the future. No one has a crystal ball, but I honestly believe I'm doing the right thing for everyone here.

Ok that explains a lot, I would be gone plain and simple.

Sleepy

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Fixed your post there.

I don't see how? A parent who allows their children to make such important family decisions is a bit of a moron imo.

Yes, the girls father deserves some input and he's given it. From the detail in dark_crystal's next post he'd have to be a moron not to be okay with this tbh. The UK's only a short flight and there's a much better quality of life there for them.

dark crystal wrote: »

As I mentioned in my OP, one of the main reasons we're moving is a better quality of life for them.

Long story short, when their dad and I split up, we were made virtually homeless (his house, his mortgage). I had to apply for a council house and that's what we got. The area we live in is high in crime and we have the neighbours from hell (from a certain community....). Our house has been burgled twice, there's been two murders in our estate alone over the past three years and many of the kids around here are lawless yobs, pure and simple. I see an attitude developing in my children that worries me a lot and I suspect it's mirroring the attitude they see around the estate.

I've applied for transfers, but the chances of us ever being moved out of here is virtually nil (told this both by the council and two TD's I contacted). We can't afford private rent or a mortgage on my partner's wages and my part-time wages. Not a hope. We barely get by at the moment as it is.

If we move to the UK, my partner's uncle has a much better paid job waiting for him over there, I also have a job waiting if I need it that will pay more than I'm currently earning. My partner's mother is more than willing to provide any childcare we need.
Best of all, the area we are moving to is lovely and much lower in crime (Old Windsor) and the kids have been there before and like it.

This isn't a selfish decision I'm making - I'm trying to improve all our lives. If I don't make this leap now, I dread to think what their futures may turn out like stuck in this place. It may disrupt their lives in the short-term,yes, but in the long term I hope it'll give them better prospects for the future. No one has a crystal ball, but I honestly believe I'm doing the right thing for everyone here.

It's an absolute no-brainer of a decision from the detail you've given in this post.

Daisy M makes a good point though: let them see what's in the move for them. They're old enough to understand that more money coming into the family will benefit them so tell them about that. Maybe make a deal on a family trip to Alton Towers or even a holiday somewhere and explain that it's because of the move that this is an option?

Are they currently sharing a room? Would the move allow them their own rooms?

They probably won't see the benefit of "nicer area" or "better schools" and will hit the moon if you were to suggest they'd be hanging around with a better class of people etc. Win them on the material differences this will make to their lives.

CrazyRabbit

Sleepy wrote: »

How on earth would the OP be ever able to control her children again if she allowed them to over-rule her on such a large decision?

They'd see such a back-down as a massive sign that they're the one's in charge and that would completely ruin them in their teenage years.

How much control would the OP have if the daughters felt ignored & that their opinions were irrelevant? What damage would that do to the parent/child relationship?

Yes, it is a huge decision, and one that does equally affect the 2 daughters. It is right for them to have a say in the matter, and for their concerns to be addressed.

ahnoo

i know this isnt at all relevant and im really sorry, but can someone tell me how to make my own post please? i just joined, cant figure it out and need answers asap

SerialComplaint

ahnoo wrote: »

i know this isnt at all relevant and im really sorry, but can someone tell me how to make my own post please? i just joined, cant figure it out and need answers asap

Click the 'new thread' button when you're viewing the forum.

implausible

Op, your girls are 12 and 13. Have they started secondary school yet? If they haven't, then it's probably a good time to move, as there would be a big upheaval changing schools and they would lose friends anyway, so it may not be much more of a stretch moving to a new school in the UK.

I would go with the idea of not letting them dictate whether you go or not. It sounds like you are doing this for their own good. A few months of strops and sulking is nothing compared to the worry that they might end up with the wrong crowd. Allow them to have some input as others have suggested, but you and your partner are the adults, you make the decisions.

Just make sure you are not swapping social problems in Ireland for new ones in the UK i.e. do your research on schools in the area etc.

dahamsta

byrnem31 wrote: »

Your two children are more important than your partner ever will be.

You realise that your life lessons don't apply to everyone, right?

OP, tell them they're going, no ifs ands or buts. Tell them you'll do what you can to make it as easy as possible, and do as much as you can from what they ask. Tell them you'll bring them home whenever you can afford to, and do that. Tell them they can call their friends whenever they want within reason, and let them. But, critically: /tell/ them, don't ask them.

golden lane

op, you are very right to want to go.....there is not a better reason than yours....

you are going to a good part of the uk......and i believe they will make friends easily......

they are just a stones throw from heathrow...(they can nearly touch the planes as they are flying over).....so not far from dublin......

i wish you and your family the best of luck for the future.......and if you move......then,welcome to the uk.....