Negative Equity & Trade Up Mortgage solutions & ideas.

MysticalRain

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The system will correct itself ,the losses will have to be realised and borne . Whether this is paid for by bondholders investors ,depositors , taxes or deflation .

What losses exactly? We are talking about NE mortgages here, not toxic non-performing mortgages. The vast majority of people in NE will eventually pay it off. They'll just have to cut back on stuff like foreign holidays and owning 2 cars. Either that or sell the house at a huge loss and go back to renting like many of us do.

I don't even own my own home because I was prudent enough not get involved in the housing bubble mess to begin with, and now I'm expected to pay for someone else's house. Where's my bailout?

jased10s

Deleted User wrote: »

I refuse to argue with you anymore. Your points of view are subjective and selfish, and key parts of your argument are based solely on your own opinion.

I could pick your last post apart and address each issue I have with it point by point, but frankly, why bother? You're not open to intelligent debate, you've made your mind up based on your own limited and selfish point of view, and besides, it would make my head hurt to come down to your level of argument.

MrMack,
You can pick away and it's not an argument it's debating.
Listen and read properly. The origional point was people who are in MAJOR negative equity and are just surviving and are getting 0 assistance and their life is a misery while they are being asked to bailout the elite who screwed us all over. The gouverment is turning a blind eye and lied to get into power and have done sweet FA to turn the situation around.

You seem to judge me because YOU think my advice is the action i am taking. I have stated that i'm only 10,000 in NE and my household comprises of 2 professionals ( both working ) and we can well afford our morgage thank you very much.

My so called whinging from my point of view is valid. You get fup all services for your taxes and are asked time and again to cover others losses. Just because i call a spade a spade you get all defensive ( i admire your patratiosm but its missplaced)

I WAS ADVISING WHAT I WOULD DO IF FACED WITH MAJOR NE.

I NEVER ONCE SAID THESE ARE THE ACTIONS IM CURRENTLY TAKING.

IM SERVICING MY MORGAGE ( ALTHOUGH AT A HIGHER RATE AS WITH PTSB , A GOUVERMENT OWNED BANK I MAY ADD)

If your going to attack a post at least have the decency to read it properly. And selfish im not , Look allaround ( wallace, berty. cowen, dunn, quinns, ect ) these are the selfish people that make me respond the way i do .

You seem happy accepting substandard services and corrouption . You think i cant have an intellectual discussion ( im an IT professional on a good wage ).

And fear not i have asprin to carry on the debate in PM.

And are you calling me a midgit ? Saying you dont want to come down to my level?
I may be short but thats below the belt...

MysticalRain

Zulu wrote: »

Well...

if you rented during the boom years and never bought, all you are paying for is the bail out. You didn't pay stamp duty, you won't be in NE, you won't be paying a property tax, you won't be paying a household charge. If you continued to rent during the boom, frankly, your sorted.

Those who bought, are paying for the bail out, and (may) have paid stamp duty, and will be paying the household charge, and will be subject to the property tax.

Anyone who rented during the boom was paying massive rents due to runaway property speculation. Anyone is renting now is still paying too much rent due to the governments efforts to artificially prop up the property market via NAMA, and rent supplement allowance. Not to mention the fact that house prices still have some way to go before they reach their natural equilibrium.

You also have a ton of people here who lost their jobs or had to emigrate because of the crisis, despite never having gotten involved in the housing bubble to begin with. If you think people in NE are the biggest victims in the crisis, then you haven't seen the half of it.

People have to understand that there is no free money here. The prudent working middle classes are not some kind of cash cow that can be endlessly milked to pay for subsidized or free houses for whoever feels they deserve one.

jased10s

Also a lot of people could afford their morgage cant now due to USC ( €480 a month in my household ) and other stealth taxes charges and the state of current employment means a lot who could pay cant pay now.

The word stupid decision is thrown around here without thought.

They were not stupid they just never thought they would be shafted by their own gouverment.

Also when i brought my morgage was € for € the same as renting, And its not far off the same now.

jased10s

MysticalRain wrote: »

Anyone who rented during the boom was paying massive rents due to runaway property speculation. Anyone is renting now is still paying too much rent due to the governments efforts to artificially prop up the property market via NAMA, and rent supplement allowance. Not to mention the fact that house prices still have some way to go before they reach their natural equilibrium.

You also have a ton of people here who lost their jobs or had to emigrate because of the crisis, despite never having gotten involved in the housing bubble to begin with. If you think people in NE are the biggest victims in the crisis, then you haven't seen the half of it.

People have to understand that there is no free money here. The prudent working middle classes are not some kind of cash cow that can be endlessly milked to pay for subsidized or free houses for whoever feels they deserve one.

NAMA a rescue for the developers and pays them a wage. No rescue or assistance for joe soap tho.

Joe soap just gets to fund it with a lovley USC tax.

Also do you really think these developers and bankers who go to the UK have no money. I know the average person in major NE cannot afford the startup costs of moving to the UK.

coolshannagh28

Welease wrote: »

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The system will correct itself ,the losses will have to be realised and borne . Whether this is paid for by bondholders investors ,depositors , taxes or deflation .

So you want us to wipe out NE and pay via taxes instead... whats the point?

Property prices have fallen 60 to 70% ,the negative equity is rapidly turning into bad debt . It's irrelevant how this is paid for ,it will happen and some of the above will have to foot the bill .

jased10s

Its gone from one extreem to the other , the prices banded around would not even cover the costs of building.
It will settle somewhere in between

MysticalRain

jased10s wrote: »

NAMA a rescue for the developers and pays them a wage. No rescue or assistance for joe soap tho.

Joe soap just gets to fund it with a lovley USC tax.

NAMA is the government's cunning plan to attempt to artificially keep property prices high. If that plan works (and it ultimately won't), then it will keep many people out of negative equity.

Also do you really think these developers and bankers who go to the UK have no money. I know the average person in major NE cannot afford the startup costs of moving to the UK.

The start up costs of moving to another country are not actually that much (speaking as someone who emigrated to a place a lot further away than the UK). Unless of course you are a developer and expect a fully fitted out mansion and Mercedes awaiting you at the other end.

Personally speaking, I think there should be one rule for everybody: if you owe a dept to a creditor, then you should be obligated to pay it rather than expecting the government or taxpayer to bail you out. The fact that a developer gets off the hook, it doesn't mean everyone else should either. In other words, just because Joe Taxpayer was robbed once, it doesn't mean he should be robbed a second time.

Its gone from one extreem to the other , the prices banded around would not even cover the costs of building.
It will settle somewhere in between

What are your figures to back this up?

jased10s

MysticalRain wrote: »

NAMA is the government's cunning plan to attempt to artificially keep property prices high. If that plan works (and it ultimately won't), then it will keep many people out of negative equity.

I gotta say thats such a stupid ecomonic plan and is typical of how things are handled in this country. Get tax payers to pay for developers leaving yourself unable to pay your bills so you dont end up in negative equity.

The start up costs of moving to another country are not actually that much (speaking as someone who emigrated to a place a lot further away than the UK). Unless of course you are a developer and expect a fully fitted out mansion and Mercedes awaiting you at the other end.

You do know you would need the money to cover rent moving costs and they dole in the UK ask a lot more questions and actually do follow through and have a working multi departental computer system. Easy it aint.

Personally speaking, I think there should be one rule for everybody: if you owe a dept to a creditor, then you should be obligated to pay it rather than expecting the government or taxpayer to bail you out. The fact that a developer gets off the hook, it doesn't mean everyone else should either. In other words, just because Joe Taxpayer was robbed once, it doesn't mean he should be robbed a second time.

I totally agree with the above. If you had read what i posted its a case of cant beat them join them . I would love to have all the so called bankrupts live our life and 1 rule also means we get bailed out and placed in NAMA with a nice wage.


What are your figures to back this up?

You know what i dont actually have any to hand as my aera is IT. I will ask my partner who is a Auctioneer and is frustrated with the inept of dealing with NAMA everyday for the figures.

K-9

Take the sniping to pm or just put each other on ignore, just stop ruining the thread for everybody else.

jased10s

NAMA is the government's cunning plan to attempt to artificially keep property prices high. If that plan works (and it ultimately won't), then it will keep many people out of negative equity.

@M
I gotta say thats such a stupid economic plan and is typical of how things are handled in this country. Get tax payers to pay for developers leaving yourself unable to pay your bills so you dont end up in negative equity. Just lol, im speechless.
And if you think thats a cunning plan then you probly always lost at cludo.
Cunning it aint, a piss take it is.

The start up costs of moving to another country are not actually that much (speaking as someone who emigrated to a place a lot further away than the UK). Unless of course you are a developer and expect a fully fitted out mansion and Mercedes awaiting you at the other end.

@M
You do know you would need the money to cover rent moving costs and the dole in the UK ask a lot more questions and actually do follow through and have a working multi departmental computer system. Also not seeing your family ( i bet the elite fly back regular or fly family to them ). Easy it aint. But you will get free doctors and dentist and also school books, so you might come out on top.
Also the amount of dole in the UK is worlds apart form Ireland.


Personally speaking, I think there should be one rule for everybody: if you owe a dept to a creditor, then you should be obligated to pay it rather than expecting the government or taxpayer to bail you out. The fact that a developer gets off the hook, it doesn't mean everyone else should either. In other words, just because Joe Taxpayer was robbed once, it doesn't mean he should be robbed a second time.


@M
I totally agree with the above. If you had read what i posted its a case of cant beat them join them . I would love to have all the so called bankrupts live our life and 1 rule also means we get bailed out and placed in NAMA with a nice wage if you want it to go that way , Equal rules as you say.
also your question makes no sense , 1 rule for all but if x person gets bailed dosent mean all shoud. Me's confuddled.
Also you would bail out the faceless bankers but wont help your fellow taxpayer, I pray you never need help.


What are your figures to back this up?

@M
You know what i dont actually have any to hand as my aera is IT. I will ask my partner who is a Auctioneer and is frustrated with the inept of dealing with NAMA everyday for some ball park figures.

MysticalRain

jased10s wrote: »

I gotta say thats such a stupid economic plan and is typical of how things are handled in this country. Get tax payers to pay for developers leaving yourself unable to pay your bills so you dont end up in negative equity. Just lol, im speechless.
And if you think thats a cunning plan then you probly always lost at cludo.
Cunning it aint, a piss take it is.

Yes indeed. Of course it's a pisstake. In fact the biggest pisstake of all in this sorry little island of ours is that it is the people who are the most law abiding, hard working and honest who get shafted the most.

You do know you would need the money to cover rent moving costs and the dole in the UK ask a lot more questions and actually do follow through and have a working multi departmental computer system. Also not seeing your family ( i bet the elite fly back regular or fly family to them ). Easy it aint. But you will get free doctors and dentist and also school books, so you might come out on top.
Also the amount of dole in the UK is worlds apart form Ireland.

Of course I know you have to have enough money saved to pay for rent/deposits and moving costs. Sure didn't I have to work those costs out myself when I moved down under (at greater expense than moving to the UK and not even having the luxury of being able to sponge off the dole for the first few weeks while I was there, or being able to fly back home for xmas to see the family).

I totally agree with the above. If you had read what i posted its a case of cant beat them join them . I would love to have all the so called bankrupts live our life and 1 rule also means we get bailed out and placed in NAMA with a nice wage if you want it to go that way , Equal rules as you say.
also your question makes no sense , 1 rule for all but if x person gets bailed dosent mean all shoud. Me's confuddled.

Just because a mob of people is acting dishonestly, it doesn't mean you should too. The "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality is what caused otherwise normal, law abiding people to break the law this time last year during the London riots. It doesn't make it any less wrong.

Also you would bail out the faceless bankers but wont help your fellow taxpayer

I would have preferred not to have bailed out anyone, whether it was greedy bankers or people who bought mortages they couldn't afford. Granted there may have been a legitimate argument for propping up the main high street banks like BOI and AIB because they were of systematic importance to the economy. But another bailout for every Tom, Dick and Harry who over extended themselves during the boom will bury this country economically even if the first bailout doesn't.

I pray you never need help.

See the thing is I myself have endured far worse financial circumtances than most of those who currently can't pay their mortgages, never mind the ones in NE who feel like they shouldn't pay. I never asked for a bailout from anyone. I don't even own a house myself (or a car for that matter), and now I'm being told I'm expected to pay for someone who wants to trade up their exiting apartment for a bigger house. If that ever happens, I will be considering emigrating (again) to some country with a functioning economy that rewards concepts of hard work and living within your means.

creedp

jased10s wrote: »

Also a lot of people could afford their morgage cant now due to USC ( €480 a month in my household ) and other stealth taxes charges and the state of current employment means a lot who could pay cant pay now.

Didn't the USC replace the existing Health Contribution Levy so its not fully a new tax more a top up on an existing one. Not saying the top up is insignificant or anything ...