Grandparents

hoodwinked

Hi all looking for advice from other parents who may understand what we are going through
its long but i need advice and need to try and cover everything so you can understand the situation.


relations with my inlaws are frosty at the best of times but lately my husband and i have come to our wits end with them all.


brief history with our daughter (their grand-daughter)

we call down every week (but that comes with its own issues)

- freaked out when we told them i was expecting (normal enough we assumed but for the next 8 months they were hiding me from everyone they knew)
- only asked when i was 9 months pregnant if it was twins (this will show you their dis-interest in her)
- for her christening caused a huge fuss, my husbands father insulted the relative of mine that made the cake, told my step-dad he "wasn't our daughters 'real' grandad" (it was the first time they met my family)...etc
- for her first birthday got her a cake nothing else (and only because we suggested we call down so they could see her on her birthday).
- for her second birthday bought her a proper big bike that she could barely reach the pedals on (but again only because they were invited to ours for her birthday when my family were going to be there)
- for her third (there was no party with my family) threw €20 in a card.


although it might sound like it, its not the cost of what they do but the lack of effort they show that bugs us for €20 they could have popped into smyths (5 minutes from ours) and picked up two toys for that €20 she's 3 she loves everything. its like they have to keep up this pretense that they 'love' their grand-daughter because its what respectable people do.

we call down every Sunday, every sunday its the same thing, the father sits in his chair watching any sport he can and pretty much ignores our daughter unless other people/family members are there.

his mother will make an effort (well she does since we mentioned it to them)
but follows it up by saying things like "oh what a lovely day we could have went for a walk on the beach today or went for a spin...etc" (and she means without our daughter) surely she could have asked us "why don't we go to the beach"...etc

from this you would think why do you call down if they don't want you there and you don't want to be there?

because if we don't we get to listen to "oh but her other grandparents get to see her twice a week, thats not fair now is it" and this is generally their excuse for their bad behavior towards us and our daughter, we have tried calling down at other times but they are always "busy" :rolleyes:

now in saying that our daughter does prefer my mother and step-dad, but simply because before she could walk they gave her time and attention, playing with her, cuddling her...etc, they were always wanting to spend time with her and would ring me constantly saying "we're free call up", and they built up us leaving our daughter there in a slow manner,

starting with one afternoon, then when i went back to work it turned into three afternoons, and soon enough occasional overnights, its like they built our trust in them up if you guys get me?

where as his parents expect the same benefits while pulling the stuff mentioned,

for an example if we told them our daughter had a severe allergic re-action to bananas we'd get "pah we raised three children who ate bananas" and they would give her one.

where my mother would on the otherside would make sure everything our daughter ate didn't have a trace of banana!

we have this theory in our heads that they just don't see her as their granddaughter, they see her as my daughter (and they do dislike me so much so they let their daughter wear the top of her wedding dress over a white skirt to our wedding - i kid you not).

to back this up we have

- the fact every Sunday since we talked to them about their behavior and lack of affection towards her they started taking our daughter for a 'walk' leaving her alone with them, (we went along with this because we wanted them to have a chance to build up our trust in them)

after being down there we have noticed a change in our daughter demeanor, she won't come near me, insisting her dad gets her ready for bed, usually she gives us both kisses and cuddles but she won't give me any on Sundays,

last week they weren't home (they failed to mention they were gone for the weekend,) but my husbands brother was there so we stayed with him for a bit, that night while eating dinner she just turned to me and said "i love you mommy" and gave me an impromptu kiss.

any day its raining too much for them to go for their 'walk' our daughter kisses and hugs me as normal too.

also

- they admitted they do not like me but after talking to them we agreed to put it all behind us and move on.
- the way everything grandparenty they do is only for show in front of others,
- they keep organizing 'family' events but constantly expect my husband to be there without me and our daughter because "he is 'family' and we are not". it is only when his uncle steps in and stands up for us do they relent and invite our daughter (i really don't mind missing out) (and we get along fantastic with his uncle as does our daughter.)


do you guys have any advice on how to proceed with these people? as parents you know the significance of grandparents.

our friends/my family think we are crazy putting up with them, but we wonder do we have to as they are her grandparents, even if they aren't as emotionally attached as they claim to be,

oh we have talked to them about it about 5 times now, it gets better for a week then reverts to same old same old.

please help

Maldesu

I don't have children so I'll probably look at this differently to others, but anyway:

If you removed the word 'grandparent' from this, would you consider these people responsible adults that can take care of a young child?
If they were your neighbor that had these traits would you leave your child with them?

If your child is being effected in any negative way by these people, relation or not, then either you address it or remove the problem.

I know you want the grandparents involved, but the best way to see if you want to keep them, is talk to your daughter. Find out if she is happy to go down there. Does she have fun and if they do nice things for her. She'll probably give you your best information.

Your priority is keeping your child safe and well in all environments, not only physically, but mentally and emotionally. It is not to pander to the wishes of an older generation who want to look like respectable people to the neighbors.

hoodwinked

Maldesu wrote: »

I know you want the grandparents involved, but the best way to see if you want to keep them, is talk to your daughter. Find out if she is happy to go down there. Does she have fun and if they do nice things for her. She'll probably give you your best information.
.

just on this,

she is only 3, but i will admit it happens more times then not when we are down there and we say "xxx come on we are going home" she'll respond with "yay" or "can we visit nana and granda x's house?" we try to cover it up as obviously we don't want to hurt them either.

on the way down when we tell her we are going to nana's and granda's in the car she's like "this isn't the way to nana and granda x's house" with disappointment in her voice,

x being my parents,

we thought she may have been picking up the bad vibes so now we try and sound cheery when we say "we are going to nana and granda y's house"

but she still asks to go to her other grandparents instead, she doesn't fight us on it or anything and usually she'll just accept we are going.

Maldesu

hoodwinked wrote: »

just on this,

we try to cover it up as obviously we don't want to hurt them either.

Maybe so, but they know how to fix this and that is by giving your daughter time and attention, Not being selective out it for public consumption. No doubt your daughter is confused about it. It also shows the have no problem being hurtful to your child just to slight you, but also how little regard they have for their own son.

At her age, she picks up speech, behavior and mannerisms by mimicking those around her and who are close to her. By letting her grandparents continue the poor behavior around her she may start to think that its acceptable. This is the one period of time in her live you have control over what she learns and how she is taught to interact with others. When she starts school, this will change considerably.

Sleepy

I'd stop making the effort tbh. If they want to see her, surely they can come visit you?

And if I found any evidence of them making negative remarks about you in front of your daughter, it'd be a *long* time before they saw her again.

From the description above, my step-son's grandparents treat my daughter more like a grandchild than your husband's parents seem to treat his child.

Let your husband be the one to tell them to cop themselves on btw. Even if they had genuine reasons for disliking you, it's utterly disrespectful of him for them to treat you as if you weren't part of their family.

pwurple

hoodwinked wrote: »

- freaked out when we told them i was expecting (normal enough we assumed but for the next 8 months they were hiding me from everyone they knew)
- only asked when i was 9 months pregnant if it was twins (this will show you their dis-interest in her)

This is utterly bizaar. Surely they would have even expected grandchildren if you were married. It is completely weird for them to treat you like this, when you married to their son.

I would ask your husband to deal with this, rather than taking it upon yourself. If my parents treated my spouse like this I would be ridiculously upset. It is your husbands role to step up here and sort this out.


PS, You are right, grandparents are an important relationship in a childs life, I'm glad you have mentioned that in your original post. I would think this needs to be addressed if possible.

hoodwinked

pwurple wrote: »

This is utterly bizaar. Surely they would have even expected grandchildren if you were married. It is completely weird for them to treat you like this, when you married to their son.

sorry,

we weren't married when i had her, that is only a recent development

my husband is very upset over their behavior, he has tried taking to them at least 5 times, like i said they are fine for the first week and then revert back to the above after.

pwurple

Ahhh. Yes, I've seen that happen a few times. You're not the first to get this treatment in good old ireland. They sound like they are conservative, and possibly think you 'trapped' their precious son with a pregnancy. They don't consider you part of the family at all in this case. It just isn't on their radar, you are a temporary glitch in whatever plan they had for their son.

How very sad that they take it out on their own grandchild.

This is going to sound terribly cynical, but I wouldn't see them changing their view until you became even more like a permanent family in their eyes, possibly with a good chunk of time, or another baby.

dark crystal

Your husband's parents sound kind of like my own parents - no real interest. With my mother in particular, she's way too wrapped up in her own life and finds the grandchildren more of a nuisance than anything else.

It's not nice, but just as some people don't make good parents, some people don't make good grandparents I'm afraid. When I was pregnant, my mother said "Don't be expecting me to provide childcare. I've already raised my kids and need some 'me' time now." so I only ever ask her to babysit when I'm absolutely desperate as she makes it clear I'm putting her out by doing so and the kids don't really enjoy going there.

TBH, I'd let them come to you and if you really want your daughter to have a relationship with them, leave your husband take her over there without you - enjoy the break, put your feet up and be glad you don't have to interact with them.
Grandparents really shouldn't need to be reminded to spend time with their grandchildren, it should be something they want to do willingly out of love.

Daisy M

Does your husband want to go to visit every Sunday? It seems like a complete waste of what should be a nice day spent together as a family. Why not go for dinner or to a playground next week and ask them to meet you there. That way they cant say they werent invited to spend time with you all but at least you wont be stuck in their home with a toxic athmosphere.

deisemum

Children pick up on things so easily and I'd advise putting a stop to your little one seeing them being disrespectful to you. If you little one sees you being disrespected and you putting up with it then you're teaching her that it's ok to be disrespected so don't expect her to grow up respecting you if you don't respect yourself enough.

I'd hate to have every Sunday as a day to do a duty visit. Let them come to your home for a change.

caprilicious

Daisy M wrote: »

Does your husband want to go to visit every Sunday? It seems like a complete waste of what should be a nice day spent together as a family. Why not go for dinner or to a playground next week and ask them to meet you there. That way they cant say they werent invited to spend time with you all but at least you wont be stuck in their home with a toxic athmosphere.

I think that's a really good suggestion. If you go out somewhere to meet, they'll be in public & have to behave.(in theory anyway )

I definitely wouldn't go out of your way to build a relationship between your daughter & them when they're so ambivalent towards her.
If they want a relationship with her, you shouldn't have to do all the work.

Fair play to you for trying so hard considering how awful they have been to you.
As for their daughter wearing the top of her wedding dress to your wedding & wearing white, that's just odd! :eek:

The way your daughter acts off towards you after spending time with them & their disregard for her food allergies would be reason enough for me not to leave her alone with them.

hoodwinked

caprilicious wrote: »

The way your daughter acts off towards you after spending time with them & their disregard for her food allergies would be reason enough for me not to leave her alone with them.

just to clarify when i said about the food allergies, she isn't actually allergic to bananas its was just an example of their typical behavior towards things we say to them. it was the only analogy i could think of to show just how much they would ignore us.

thank you all for your advice, we appreciate each and every one,

we'll be sure to try them out, anything that improves this is will help us especially our daughter she is the most important person in this.

cbyrd

My husbands parents are very like this.. they have 10 children of their own but i wouldn't leave the dog with them We used to go down every 2nd weekend when we had no car in the very early days and be ignored for most of the weekend.. she didn't even do dinner on the sunday so we'd have to fend for ourselves :rolleyes:

We gave up after the 2nd girl was about 3 and spent the sundays having fun.. we'd invite them up but they never came..

To my consternation my 2 year old loves his nana D. . . she has 2 ducks and when we say we're going down he cheers:rolleyes::rolleyes: But.. she has mellowed a bit with age and to be honest she does seem to have copped on a bit in the last few years, but you need to look out for you and yours and let them do the running.. think of all the nice sunday's out you could have.

We only have sunday as the one day in the house together.. i'd rather it be a family day than a chore this sunday we're trekking in Glendalough. . 9k :eek: F the inlaws (my mother is no better i also got the i'm not babysitting talk :rolleyes:)

Hannibal Smith

Grandparents are only an important part of a child's life when they can enrich it. I don't mean that as harsh as it sounds. I mean when grandparents, or anyone else for that matter, is offering your child a positive pleasant experience or relationship, then its important for them to know each other.

If grandparents are behaving negatively towards your daughter, to the extent that it is effecting her behaviour, that's not a relationship I would force.

I had a rotten grandparent, who was an absolute toad and I was forced to visit them . I felt guilty for not liking them because I kept being told I should because they were a grandparent. I would have been better off not knowing him.

Like someone said, if this was anyone else you wouldn't give the situation a second thought. Remove the word grandparents from the scenario and you would have your answer.

the_syco

hoodwinked wrote: »

they admitted they do not like me but after talking to them we agreed to put it all behind us and move on.

hoodwinked wrote: »

they started taking our daughter for a 'walk' leaving her alone with them

They don't like you, and bring the daughter for a walk. What the holy fcuk do they tell the kid?

hoodwinked wrote: »

after being down there we have noticed a change in our daughter demeanor, she won't come near me, insisting her dad gets her ready for bed, usually she gives us both kisses and cuddles but she won't give me any on Sundays

Whatever it is, is turning her against you.

hoodwinked wrote: »

last week they weren't home (they failed to mention they were gone for the weekend,) but my husbands brother was there so we stayed with him for a bit, that night while eating dinner she just turned to me and said "i love you mommy" and gave me an impromptu kiss.

So, no walk, and the kid acts normal?

hoodwinked wrote: »

any day its raining too much for them to go for their 'walk' our daughter kisses and hugs me as normal too.

KEEP YOUR KID AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE!!!

They sound like they're turning your kid against you, thus I wouldn't allow them on any more walks, or get someone to follow them on their walk, and see what they say to you kid.

meisha

I have a strained relationship with my OHs parents they dont do ANYTHING for my child or spend any time with him in fact they have not seeen him in 6 weeks because if you dont visit them they dont see him,they never visit us,i was blue in the face trying to fit it but now i dont bother,my son is ignored in their home and barely gets a hello so I dont subject him to it anymore or myself having to look at it...they way I see it now is he has me, a great father and he has my parents thats all he needs

Squiggler

As long as a child has loving and supportive parents they can get by without pretty much everyone else. I can say this from personal experience.

My mother's parents died before I was born, her family lived far away (we saw them once every few years) and my Dad's sisters and parents were pretty toxic. His parents didn't like children, they hadn't liked their own and had no interest at all in anyone else's, this was particularly true of my grandmother.

We didn't miss having grandparents in our lives on a weekly or monthly basis, their bad behaviour when we did see them was enough to convince us that we were better off without them.

We only developed relationships with them as adults (when they found us tolerable to be around).

If you think that your in-laws are upsetting your children, which it seems they are, then you should never allow them to be alone with the children, and limit contact. You are not responsible for their relationship with your children, you are responsible for protecting your children and keeping them safe and happy.

Daffodil.d

I looks to me like you're making an e exceptional effort considering. I agree with other posters who said grandparents are there to enrich the child's life. They're supposed to be family after all. What they're doing is not family behavior. I would arrange to meet them in public from now on and if they disagree take a deep breath pat yourself on the back and say Well I tried.
Another poster mentioned that they could be old fashioned and weren't happy about the fact yee weren't married at the time of your pregnancy. It certainly sounds like that and its not unusual in modern Ireland even now. It'd take years for you to fit in and frankly I just wouldn't try anymore if its causing that much stress. Best of luck with what you decide I hope it isn't causing tension between you and your husband. Parents in law can be a pain in xxxx even when you do get on with them lol.

LittleBook

hoodwinked wrote: »

we have this theory in our heads that they just don't see her as their granddaughter, they see her as my daughter (and they do dislike me ... after being down there we have noticed a change in our daughter demeanor, she won't come near me, insisting her dad gets her ready for bed, usually she gives us both kisses and cuddles but she won't give me any on Sundays ... any day its raining too much for them to go for their 'walk' our daughter kisses and hugs me as normal too.

I agree with the_syco, I wouldn't let my kid be alone with these people.

hoodwinked wrote: »

they keep organizing 'family' events but constantly expect my husband to be there without me and our daughter because "he is 'family' and we are not".

What a pair of @ssholes. If my parents treated my partner and child like that, they'd never see ME again, much less them.

hoodwinked wrote: »

our friends/my family think we are crazy putting up with them, but we wonder do we have to as they are her grandparents, even if they aren't as emotionally attached as they claim to be

Your friends and family are right, this is not normal and you are under no obligation to these people and you don't have to do anything for them, particularly since they seem to be a genuinely negative influence on your daughter and your own family unit.

haulagebasher

May I ask you why it is that they have always seemed to dislike you. You say that they openly admit that they dislike you, what is the season for this? Is there a divide between your families along religious lines? Are they Protestant/Catholic but you are the other? Is there a difference in social class at play here? If they want to keep up appearaces for the neighbours it sounds like they are middle class and may dislike your family because they are working class or higher middle class that they are.Did they approve of the union between you and their son?

tinkerbell

Good god OP, why are you allowing these people access to your daughter when they treat you, your husband and daughter like pure crap. I don't care if they go on that they should see her twice a week or whatever, they don't even pay attention to your daughter when they do see her. They quite frankly couldn't give two fecks about you or your family. It's disgraceful. I am disgusted in what they must be saying to your daughter when they bring her on these "walks", like god only knows what they are saying to her?

OP, your responsibility is to make sure your child is in a safe environment at all times. Your child is not in a safe environment with your husband's parents. They are turning your child against you - to say she won't even kiss/cuddle you after spending the afternoon with them is major red flags and you should be stopping those visits immediately and from now on, I would only allow them to have limited SUPERVISED access to your daughter.

I wouldn't waste any more time on them tbh. Tell your husband that you are fed up of this crap, you and your daughter are his family now and therefore you both are his number one priority, not his parents who treat his wife like trash. I'm shocked you've put up with it this long, to say they were ashamed of you being pregnant and hiding you from their friends, etc. speaks volumes, I wouldn't let them have anything to do with your child after that.

Kildrought

we weren't married when i had her

There's your answer I'm afraid, sad and all as it seems; I'd be pretty sure that's the root of the problem.... and there's damn all you can do to change that attitude.

hoodwinked

haulagebasher wrote: »

May I ask you why it is that they have always seemed to dislike you. You say that they openly admit that they dislike you, what is the season for this? Is there a divide between your families along religious lines? Are they Protestant/Catholic but you are the other? Is there a difference in social class at play here? If they want to keep up appearaces for the neighbours it sounds like they are middle class and may dislike your family because they are working class or higher middle class that they are.Did they approve of the union between you and their son?

We are both catholic (well im not practicing but i respected the fact my husband is and he is raising our daughter as such) social class wise, they do act posh but they aren't really (they have no money but act like they do), my family tend to be more down to earth (they have money but act like they don't),

they never approved of me with their son, but then i disrupted the family unit, he at 21 was the first to move out of home, his older brother moved out at 27ish and the younger brother now 22 still lives there.

tinkerbell wrote: »

Good god OP, why are you allowing these people access to your daughter when they treat you, your husband and daughter like pure crap. I don't care if they go on that they should see her twice a week or whatever, they don't even pay attention to your daughter when they do see her. They quite frankly couldn't give two fecks about you or your family. It's disgraceful. I am disgusted in what they must be saying to your daughter when they bring her on these "walks", like god only knows what they are saying to her?

like i said His mum does pay attention briefly after we have to pull them up on their behavior (roughly every 6months at this stage) but like i said she'll top it up by saying "oh i have to do this, i have to go there, oh i could be doing *** today instead"

his dad just ignores her until she is put on his lap with an ipad (but then put an iphone or ipad in her hand and she'd sit on a strangers lap) and even then he'll just watch sport while shes there maybe sporadically paying attention to the game she's playing.


as for the walks we don't know what they say we don't even know if they are saying bad things to her, all we have noticed is when they occur there is a change in our daughters demeanor.

which makes us feel like we can't actually give them a reason as to why we are concerned, (and tbh makes me feel like im being paranoid)

tinkerbell wrote: »

I wouldn't waste any more time on them tbh. Tell your husband that you are fed up of this crap, you and your daughter are his family now and therefore you both are his number one priority, not his parents who treat his wife like trash. I'm shocked you've put up with it this long, to say they were ashamed of you being pregnant and hiding you from their friends, etc. speaks volumes, I wouldn't let them have anything to do with your child after that.

my husband has his own issues with them, they tend to be less than honest with him, and he knows it (he has caught them out on more than one occasion but they don't realise he saw it)

and whenever he tries to take a break from them he starts getting emotionally blackmailing messages, guilting him for not seeing them, or insinuating one of them has been ill/hospitalized/going to hospital. (these were the last three incidences he was text).

they know he is sensitive, and he tends to feel guilt ridden after reading them even though on a level he knows they are playing him, they are still his parents and he doesn't want to see them upset/ill.

Daffodil.d wrote: »

I hope it isn't causing tension between you and your husband. Parents in law can be a pain in xxxx even when you do get on with them lol.

its not really we are both on the same page since he witnessed their bad behavior for himself about 4 years ago.

Kildrought wrote: »

There's your answer I'm afraid, sad and all as it seems; I'd be pretty sure that's the root of the problem.... and there's damn all you can do to change that attitude.

its just so annoying as i grew up living with my grandparents, and my husband used love staying with his grandparents (his mums, mum & dad) in the same way,

we were both spoiled with affection by our grandparents and we wanted the same for our daughter.

LittleBook

hoodwinked wrote: »

we were both spoiled with affection by our grandparents and we wanted the same for our daughter.

It's a shame, I can see what you're hoping for but I can't see how it could possibly happen with these people. Even if they changed one or two aspects of their behaviour, there's so much wrong with them it'll never be like it was with your grandparents. Their relationship with their son(s?) seems complicated as it is, it's difficult to see it getting any better with your daughter. Even if something really dramatic happened and they really did make an effort, they'll still be the people who thought it was OK to treat you, your husband and your daughter this way.

Remember, two great grandparents is better than a dozen mediocre ones and perhaps there are other relations to bond with. Protect yourselves (emotionally) from these people and focus on the good she'll get out of what she has with your parents, she won't know any different.

hoodwinked

LittleBook wrote: »

and perhaps there are other relations to bond with.

as it is, my husbands uncle (his mums brother) is a fantastic grand-uncle, he is a priest so we call out to mass (and to see him) on Sundays and meet up one evening a month minimum for dinner at our favorite restaurant,

he is always joking with her (to the point they now have little in jokes with each other) , and talking to her like you would a 3 year old.

when she is at his house he'll bounce around with her/roll around on the floor and mess around with her and she adores him,

he is fantastic, he's so great with her he even knows her clothing size and style, and always gets her these fabulous clothes. (i know it sounds materialistic again but im trying to show just how much he cares about her, he willingly remembers these kind of details)

and you see it when he is around she willingly runs over for hugs, and squeals in delight when he turns up at her grandparents house, he spoils her with affection, and she returns in kind.

he is very much like the grandfather my husband's father is not, he always made an effort from the very start to bond with her, and again built up our confidence in him,

which again makes it awkward for us as she is now at the stage where she is beginning to voice her favoritism and we feel he defuncts the "you see your family all the time and thats why she prefers them" argument.

LittleBook

Sounds like a good guy.

My daughter only had one set of grandparents, her fathers side isn't involved at all really. But she has aunties that would walk over hot coals for her, and she knows it.

hoodwinked wrote: »

which again makes it awkward for us as she is now at the stage where she is beginning to voice her favoritism and we feel he defuncts the "you see your family all the time and thats why she prefers them" argument.

Clearly. So no arguments anymore, you don't have to defend your choices and I'm pretty sure your husband's parents (mother mostly) are well aware of why your daughter prefers your own parents, it's just one more way to try to manipulate you and your husband.

Don't get into it with them and don't allow yourselves to be manipulated.

Good luck!